Find out if now is the right time to put your money in a savings account. In 2024, the Federal Reserve implemented a series of cuts to the federal funds rate and those rates continued on a downward trend throughout 2025. As a result, deposit interest rates have fallen from their historic highs. Still, it’s possible to find high-yield savings accounts paying above 4% APY. So, if you’re looking for the best rates available today, here’s a breakdown of where to find them.
Although savings interest rates are elevated by historical standards, the national average rate for savings accounts is still just 0.39%, according to the FDIC. The good news: Top high-yield savings accounts offer more than 10 times the national average.
As of January 30, 2026, the highest savings account rate available from our partners is 4% APY. This rate is offered by SoFi*, Barclays, and Valley Direct.
Here is a look at some of the best savings rates available today from our verified partners:
Remember, it’s important to shop around before opening a savings account. Interest rates vary widely, but there are several banks (in particular, online banks) and credit unions with highly competitive offers.
Online banks operate exclusively via the web. This significantly reduces their overhead costs, so they’re able to pass those savings onto customers in the form of high deposit rates and low fees. In fact, many of the best high-yield savings accounts also come with zero monthly fees or minimum opening deposit requirements. If you’re searching for the best savings interest rates, online banks are a great place to start.
That said, online banks aren’t the only place you can find savings accounts with rates that range between 4% and 5% APY. Credit unions are not-for-profit financial cooperatives and are also known for providing competitive rates and fewer fees. Many credit unions have certain requirements that must be met in order to become a member, though there are some that allow just about anyone to join.
Savings accounts are one of the safest places you can put your money. They’re insured by the FDIC (or the NCUA in the case of credit unions), which means your deposits are protected up to $250,000 if your financial institution fails. They also can’t lose money due to market fluctuations.
However, a savings account isn’t always the right choice. Although today’s savings interest rates are high by historical standards, they still don’t offer the same returns you could achieve by investing your money in the market. For long-term savings goals such as retirement, you need to invest a bulk of your savings in higher risk (but higher reward) market investments such as stocks, index funds, and mutual funds to reach your target.
But if you’re saving for a shorter-term goal such as a down payment on a home, vacation, or even an emergency fund, a high-yield savings account is one of the best options. That’s especially true if you want to access your money as needed; other types of high-yield deposit accounts, including money market accounts and certificates of deposit (CDs) place more restrictions on how often you can make withdrawals.
*Earn up to 4% Annual Percentage Yield (APY) on SoFi Savings with a 0.70% APY Boost (added to the 3.30% APY as of 11/12/25) for up to 6 months. Open a new SoFi Checking & Savings account and enroll in SoFi Plus by 1/31/26. Rates variable, subject to change. Terms apply at sofi.com/banking#2. SoFi Bank, N.A. Member FDIC.
The ads come as Canadian banking is going through generational shifts, including a wave of smaller players being bought up, the emergence of tech-based players as potential threats to the establishment, and a federal government that has made both big promises and moves to create more competition.
While it’s not clear how it will all play out, change is clearly underway in Canadian banking.
“This is dramatically different from what we’ve seen before,” said Adriana Vega, executive director of Fintechs Canada. Vega welcomed the fact that not only had the government made strong overtures in the fall budget to bolster competition, but it soon after started delivering with an implementation bill that included key details on moving open banking forward.
Open finance could reshape Canada’s financial landscape
The system, also called consumer-driven banking, has been hailed by many on the challenger side as the best way to shake up the sector. By giving consumers control of their financial data, open banking breaks down the silos between financial firms. It makes it easier to centrally manage multiple accounts, shop around and add on products from newer players, and switch accounts over entirely.
Not only has the government already moved forward with legislation to make it a reality, it also explicitly said that fostering competition was part of the mandate. “That was a big ask for industry,” said Vega.
And while Canada is late to the table on open banking, the government is looking to make up for lost time by including a wide range of financial products such as investments and mortgages in the mandate.
The best online banks and credit unions in Canada
“This really isn’t open banking; it’s open finance,” said Steve Boms, executive director of the Financial Data and Technology Association. “It’s not just about Canada catching up to the rest of the world, it’s now about Canada actually going farther than many other countries.”
While Boms remembers first talking with former finance minister Bill Morneau about open banking in 2016, he senses it could now become reality as the macropolitical winds align. “There’s such a determined effort to make the Canadian economy more independent, more competitive, both globally and within Canada, that it just feels like this time is different, and there’s a real desire to get this done.”
Article Continues Below Advertisement
The changes are being led by Prime Minister Mark Carney, who would already be well aware of the benefits of open banking as he was governor of the Bank of England when the country’s program went live all the way back in 2018. “He had a front-row seat,” said Andrew Spence, who wrote a book in which he argues the banks gouge customers after working in the industry, and who now works as a consultant.
The changes also align with evidence from the OECD that open banking and fintech access to the system have been the best routes to effective competition, he said. “The budget signalled for the first time some significant political commitment to introducing competition into the sector,” said Spence.
Consolidation shifts focus to consumer empowerment
It doesn’t necessarily mean less competition though, said Claire Celerier, Canada Research Chair in household finance at the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management. “There is no evidence of an ideal number of institutions to have competition … you could have a very competitive market with only four banks,” she said.
The biggest factors are how informed consumers are, and how empowered they are, said Celerier. “If fees are totally transparent, and if people can switch banks very easily, it can be extremely powerful.” The government has at least made promises on both.
The government said in the budget it will move to ban charges for switching investment and registered accounts, which currently often costs $150 a pop, while it has committed more vaguely to work with banks to make switching accounts easier.
The feds also tasked the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada with looking into the structure, level, and transparency of fees charged by Canadian banks, and said they would explore improving the transparency of cross-border transfer fees.
The promises to make switching accounts easier also comes as recent developments could deliver new choices.
Credit unions are similar to commercial banks in that they offer chequing and savings accounts, mortgages, business loans, online banking and registered savings plans—all for lower or no fees than traditional lenders. But credit unions are co-operatives and therefore tend to be much smaller than the major banks.
Customers have to buy a one-time membership share to get started, said Wendy Brookhouse, certified financial planner and CEO of Black Star Wealth. “Walk in, say: ‘I’d like to become a member’ and pay for your membership share,” she said. “You’re now banking there.”
Photo Handout Wendy Brookhouse / The Canadian Press
Lower fees, higher community investment
As not-for-profits, credit unions are usually community-oriented, Brookhouse said. That makes them a good fit for socially conscious people who want their money to stay within their community. “Their whole goal is to use the money to either make better services, invest back in the community, or invest in getting better rates or better whatever for the clients,” Brookhouse said.
Credit unions have also become an attractive alternative to traditional banks for many cost-conscious Canadians, said Natasha Macmillan, director of everyday banking at Ratehub.ca. “People are looking to diversify,” she said. Macmillan said many want to minimize their banking fees, higher interest rates on savings and the possibility of a lower rate on their loans. “As people are feeling the cost of living increases and things like that, they’re really looking to get the best bang for their dollar.”
She said she sees more Canadians trying to move away from big banks that may require a minimum amount sitting stagnant in a chequing account to forego bank fees, or that have monthly charges of as much as $30. Most credit unions have significantly lower fees. “People are becoming more aware about the options out there, and so we are anecdotally hearing that people are making the switch to some of these credit unions,” she added.
The best online banks and credit unions in Canada
Balancing benefits with convenience
Credit unions, the vast majority of which are provincially governed and geographically-focused, are a popular go-to in Quebec, British Columbia, and Alberta, where there are some large regional players. Desjardins is by far the largest, Vancity, Servus, and Meridian have memberships in the hundreds of thousands. Others, such as those with beginnings in labour groups or religious and cultural communities, are smaller.
They’re also not regulated under the Bank Act, which governs the commercial banks in Canada. Instead, each of the provinces regulate deposit insurance coverage for credit unions, similar to the Canada Deposit Insurance Corp., protecting consumer deposits in case a credit union goes out of business. Provincial deposit insurance coverage for its members is equal to or higher than that of the big banks, according to the Canadian Credit Union Association.
Despite the potential savings and other benefits though, experts say some Canadians might be hesitant to bank with a credit union because of a lack of convenience. Macmillan said credit unions often have limited branch networks, which can be inconvenient. Members can also get dinged for ATM withdrawals if they’re not using an ATM within the credit union’s network. There are also limited investment options in their wealth management services compared with a full-service bank, she added.
Article Continues Below Advertisement
Macmillan said it may not be a bad idea to have multiple bank accounts, including one with a credit union. “It’s really about not focusing on putting all of your money in one bank, but really looking at what the purpose is and why you might want to switch,” she said.
Deciding if a credit union is right for you
Some credit unions may also require members to meet eligibility criteria, such as being a part of a religious or ethnic community, a worker in a particular industry, or a student, to set up an account, said certified financial planner Cindy Marques.
“Not everyone will meet the eligibility criteria to be a credit union member,” she said in an email. Marques said digital banks have also made the space more competitive, offering better deals to customers. “I don’t necessarily feel that a credit union is the best solution for many Canadians seeking an alternative,” Marques said.
Brookhouse said choosing to bank with a credit union comes down to personal preference. For example, Brookhouse said she might recommend her client consider a credit union if it lends up to 100% for a mortgage. Credit unions also work well for those with simpler day-to-day banking needs, such as making deposits, paying bills, and saving. It may not work well if a client has to conduct foreign transactions, she said.
Before switching lenders, Brookhouse said it’s important to understand what networks the credit union is a part of and how that would affect the movement of your money. “If I’m doing an Interact transfer to somebody, what is the cost with the credit union versus the bank? How many days does it take? Or is it instantaneous?” she said. “Sometimes it’s just understanding it, and then you adapt, versus, is this a deal-breaker?” Brookhouse said.
Get free MoneySense financial tips, news & advice in your inbox.
The Canadian Press is Canada’s trusted news source and leader in providing real-time stories. We give Canadians an authentic, unbiased source, driven by truth, accuracy and timeliness.
Red Rocks Credit Union is undergoing a digital facelift with a new core and AI implementation. “We’ve spent the last several years really refreshing our brand identity,” Chief Executive Darius Wise told Bank Automation News, during a discussion on the bank’s three-year focus on creating a frictionless digital experience. “We gutted our tech stack over […]
Credits unions tapping Dublin-based fintech Pulsate for mobile solutions see a return on investment with a major uptick in funded loans, engagement and transactions. It is imperative that “community financial institutions [are equipped with] the tools they need to not just survive in this digital-first world, but be competitive,” Sarah Martin, chief executive of mobile […]
Combining the August 2023 launch of Statewide Federal Credit Union’s new savings account with aggressive marketing efforts proved fruitful for the credit union, pulling in more than $8 million in deposits in less than a year as of May.
Bart Sadowski/bartsadowski – Fotolia
As the country emerged from the COVID-19 pandemic in May 2023, banks and credit unions flush with deposits saw the cost of funds increase along with average interest rates. These increases drove competition between institutions to offer the highest rates for consumers.
When Casey Bacon, chief executive of Statewide Federal Credit Union in Flowood, Mississippi, was facing the same drop-off in new deposits, he leaned on fintech partnerships to boost new member acquisition and, in turn, deposits.
“We didn’t have the deposit growth like we had throughout [the pandemic]. … As the interest rate environment changed, we had to become more aggressive with both retaining our existing deposits and attracting new deposits,” Bacon said. “Even today, the competition just continues to basically accelerate.”
It was around this time that the $177 million-asset Statewide began rolling out the first phase of its targeted campaign to grow deposits. The push was centered around marketing the credit union’s inaugural high-yield savings account to households that weren’t members of Statewide and those that were but had deposits elsewhere.
Bacon began by working with Strum Platform, a Seattle-based financial customer data firm Statewide has partnered with for more than four years. The fintech’s analytics engine allowed credit union executives to use core and online banking information to profile the different lifestyles of members and create concise market segments.
Those cohorts gave the credit union a deeper insight into its relationships with members and helped determine how best to tailor the marketing of products and services to those who could benefit most from them.
“The strategy here was both to lean into existing members and [figure out] how do we both retain the deposits before they’re gone, and then how do we ensure that strategy also finds new opportunities to grow more deposits,” said Mark Weber, CEO and chairman of Strum.
Combining the August 2023 launch of the new savings account with aggressive marketing efforts proved fruitful for the credit union, pulling in more than $8 million in deposits in less than a year as of May.
The second key component of the campaign involved a partnership with Bankjoy, the Royal Oak, Michigan-based digital banking provider which has been working with Statewide for roughly two years. The company’s online account onboarding product helped reduce the time needed to open an account with Statewide and uses integrations with Plaid to give members the option to add accounts with other financial institutions to the digital banking platform for easy viewing.
Other institutions have seen similar success leaning on fintech partnerships and new product launches to help boost the inflow of consumer deposits.
Jenius Bank, the digital division of the Los Angeles-based Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corp. MANUBANK, introduced a high-yield savings account at the beginning of this year and has reached more than $1 billion in deposits.
The $20.1 billion-asset Alliant Credit Union in Chicago worked with the New York-based account opening fintech MANTL to help develop and deploy the firm’s MANTL for Credit Unions system in late 2022. After the first six months of 2023, the credit union’s core membership grew by 22% and deposits jumped by $500 million.
Upgrading to digital account opening has been a common theme for banks and credit unions aiming to boost deposits.
Data from Cornerstone Advisors’ annual What’s Going on in Banking report found that consumer digital account opening is the top selection for new or replacement tech among banks and credit unions for this year, garnering 27% and 36% of bank and credit union respondents respectively.
Amanda Swanson, senior director in the delivery channels practice and practice leader of marketing and growth at Cornerstone, said that organizations like Chime, SoFi and JPMorgan Chase set the bar for account opening standards, and those with fragmented processes are falling behind.
The process “needs to be very seamless,” which from a digital point of view means removing redundant “hoops and boundaries” but should also include more human connectivity throughout the steps to address questions.
“That human piece is where I think it becomes critical,” Swanson said.
Statewide plans to focus next on tailoring existing products and educational resources to foster relationships with consumers in different age ranges.
“The big rates are what gets you in the door, and it’s really common in business. … But the question then becomes how do you keep those people around that maybe have a chance of sticking, even when that rate goes down,” said Dylan Lerner, senior analyst in Javelin Strategy & Research’s digital banking practice.
In this week’s banking news roundup: NCUA grants Tribe Federal Credit Union a provisional charter; ICBA Payments names Jacob Eisen its new president and CEO; Mission Fed Credit Union announces new role for longtime leader Steve Hasbrooke; and more.
With the addition of the self-service portal, DCU was able to boost lending from roughly $1 billion in mortgage loans when talks began in 2019, to $1.6 billion in 2023.
petzshadow – stock.adobe.com
When Jason Sorochinsky began transforming the Marlborough, Massachusetts-based Digital Federal Credit Union’s mortgage origination process in 2019, he knew that always offering the lowest rates wasn’t feasible. But with the help of several fintech partnerships, he was able to bring the process to members using an online portal and boost volume by 60%.
“Our value proposition really came down to one sentence, which is, we want to be known for speed and service using digital tools and technology,” said Sorochinsky, who is head of mortgage lending for the $12.1 billion-asset DCU.
DCU officially launched the self-service mortgage portal in 2022 after spending a year piloting the platform to fine tune the processes. The digital lending platform, built by the New Jersey software firm Blue Sage Solutions, capitalizes on the credit union’s “consumer direct” model by allowing potential borrowers to apply for mortgages and home equity loans and refinance existing loans, without the need for a staff member.
After selecting which of the three products they want to apply for, and inputting property details like zip code, anticipated down payment and estimated purchase price, consumers can see the maximum amount they could bid on a property and choose which rates and terms best fit their needs. This phase also allows members to electronically verify their income, employment and other owned assets to support their eligibility.
During the application process, borrowers concerned about market volatility can lock in their rate using OptimalBlue’s rate lock API, for 15 to 90 days.
Next, DCU will use Blue Sage’s integration with the mortgage fintech Optimal Blue’s product and pricing engine to order credit reports, validate loan pricing, run the file through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and conduct other calculations. A secondary API connection with the information services firm ClosingCorp provides added support by calculating application and appraisal fees as well as generating disclosure agreements for the member to sign.
Members will receive emails or text messages prompting them to proceed to the next steps in DCU’s mortgage portal and sign the necessary forms after the initial application is submitted. Once the fees are paid, orders are put in for standard items including title insurance, appraisals and flood certificates, then a second round of confirmation documents are sent back to the applicant for signing.
After signing all the necessary forms, the file is submitted to the underwriting department for further processing — which DCU says can be done in as little as 30 minutes and without the need for a credit union representative. Two-way communication with a DCU mortgage lending officer, processor or closer via a chat function, as well as informational videos, are available to help the member address any issues.
“It doesn’t matter what the forces are, recession or high rates or low inventory, we’re able to still be successful because we’re focusing on speed and service using digital tools and technology,” Sorochinsky said. With the addition of the self-service portal, DCU was able to boost lending from roughly $1 billion in mortgage loans when talks began in 2019, to $1.6 billion in 2023.
1/5
During the initial application process, members are prompted to input property details like zip code, anticipated down payment and estimated purchase price to determine the maximum amount they could bid on a property. (Digital Federal Credit Union)
2/5
Members can view the status of their loan application and view other details such as loan amount, interest rate and estimated monthly payment. (Digital Federal Credit Union)
3/5
Within the rate lock section, supported by Optimal Blue, consumers can select from a variety of lock terms and price points to suit their needs. (Digital Federal Credit Union)
4/5
Members struggling to navigate the portal or the application process can chat in real time with a DCU representative. (Digital Federal Credit Union)
5/5
Applicants can digitally sign necessary disclosures and other documents, while also electronically verifying their income and employment. (Digital Federal Credit Union)
DCU is among a host of other institutions that have added new technologies in the hopes of furthering membership growth and increasing loan volume.
The $18.5 billion-asset Alliant Credit Union in Chicago, for example, was able to grow core membership by 22% and boost deposits by more than $500 million in a six-month period with the help of the New York-based account opening fintech MANTL’s deposit origination system. The Providence, Rhode Island-based Beeline Loans launched an artificial intelligence-powered chatbot to assist during the application process.
Debra Shultz, vice president of mortgage lending at CrossCountry Mortgage, said that activity should pick up over the next two years as the signaled rate decreases will give way to lower mortgage rates — spurring current borrowers to refinance for a more favorable level.
“Today, borrowers understand that real estate is a great investment [as] it gives them the freedom to create the home of their dreams, take advantage of tax advantages and build wealth over time,” Shultz said. “The opportunity to refinance their loan into a lower rate in the next 1-2 years is a reality.”
Experts with Cornerstone Advisors and Datos Insights underscored the importance of proper due diligence when vetting both third-party firms and the products they bring to the table, but equally highlighted the value of exploring new technology.
“This sounds like a no-brainer but despite having system capabilities, many underwriters still manually pull credit and calculate ratios manually,” said Eric Weikart, partner at Cornerstone Advisors. “Sometimes, this is due to system setup issues but many times it’s because they have always done it that way and they aren’t willing to change.”
Automation is an important characteristic for underwriting programs to be truly effective, but only with “comprehensive risk assessment, regulatory compliance and clear guidelines” also put in place, said Stewart Watterson, strategic advisor for Datos Insights.
“Compared to 20 or 30 years ago, borrowers have a much higher expectation of speed to approval and closing along with desire to have a tech enabled process supported by knowledgeable, professional loan officers and operations personnel,” said Christy Soukhamneut, chief lending officer for the $4 billion-asset University Federal Credit Union in Austin. “We are actively implementing mortgage technology that is user friendly and intuitive so that our sales teams can focus on the member and referral partner experience.”
Lack of understanding remains a key hurdle for adopting traditional and generative artificial intelligence-powered tools, but banks and credit unions are still eager to use the technology, according to a new report from Arizent.
Despite both consumer and institutional interest in artificial intelligence continuing to grow across the financial services industry, the majority of leaders are still unsure about the technology and its potential uses — leaving a select group of executives to lead their organizations into the fray.
Arizent, the publisher of American Banker, surveyed 127 financial institution professionals to find out how traditional and generative AI is unfolding in the industry with respect to applications, risks versus rewards, impact on the workforce and more.
Respondents represent banks ranging from less than $10 billion of assets to more than $100 billion of assets, as well as credit unions of all asset sizes.
The results showed that familiarity is the largest hurdle for adoption. Tech-minded changemakers helping prepare their organizations for AI said the top two things they are doing are researching providers and attending industry conferences or events on AI. They are also creating working groups for responsible AI usage and educating stakeholders.
James McPhillips, partner at Clifford Chance, said regulators abroad are more progressive than their American counterparts when it comes to overseeing the intersection of banking and technology, including the recent passage of the European Union’s Artificial Intelligence Act. This disparity has left financial institutions pondering what similar efforts will look like domestically.
“As it stands, federal regulators appear to be planning to use existing laws to regulate the use and deployment of AI, but banks have not yet seen how those regulators will actually enforce those regulations in the context of AI,” McPhillips said.
Below are highlights of the report’s findings that give deep insight into how leaders are getting better informed about the implications of AI and whether or not it can pave the way for future innovation.
“The consumer typically would not know if the check originator had sufficient funds in their bank account, whether the account was closed, or whether the signature on the check is valid,” wrote California Attorney General Rob Bonta.
David Paul Morris/Bloomberg
California Attorney General Rob Bonta is warning smaller banks and credit unions about the consequences of hitting consumers with certain penalty fees, arguing that the charges likely violate both state and federal law.
Bonta, a Democrat, highlighted two specific kinds of fees in a letter to California-chartered banks and credit unions that have less than $10 billion of assets. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau lacks supervisory authority for financial institutions whose total assets fall below the $10 billion threshold.
First, the AG warned the banks and credit unions about charging overdraft fees that aren’t reasonably foreseeable. Such fees sometimes get assessed when an account shows a positive balance at the time the transaction is authorized, but a negative balance at the time of settlement.
“The complexity of how payments are processed, authorized, and settled by financial institutions make it difficult for the average consumer to make an informed decision on whether to use overdraft protection and incur an overdraft fee for any particular transaction,” Bonta wrote in the letter, which was sent this week.
Bonta also focused on fees that get charged to customers who deposit checks that are later returned because they can’t be processed against the account of the person who wrote them. Customers often deposit checks without the knowledge that they’re bad.
“The consumer typically would not know if the check originator had sufficient funds in their bank account, whether the account was closed, or whether the signature on the check is valid,” Bonta wrote.
The letter was sent to 197 state-chartered banks and credit unions, according to the California attorney general’s office.
Diana Dykstra, president and CEO of the California Credit Union League, said the group is carefully reviewing the message being sent by Bonta’s office.
“Credit unions have long been dedicated to serving their members diligently, fostering trust through personalized financial services,” Dykstra said in an email. “We are committed to spotlighting the credit union difference with state legislators in Sacramento on the topic of overdraft protection.”
A spokesperson for the California Bankers Association did not respond Friday to requests for comment.
The focus by California officials on penalty fees charged by small banks and credit unions dovetails with the Biden administration’s effort to crack down on similar practices at big banks.
Bonta wrote in his letter that charging the two kinds of fees he highlighted likely violates both California’s Unfair Competition Law and the federal Consumer Financial Protection Act. Federal banking regulators have previously taken similar stances on the two fees’ legality under federal law.
Such disclosures about overdraft fees are already required in California by both state-chartered banks and credit unions, thanks to a state law enacted two years ago.
Data from 2022 was published in a report last year by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. It showed that California-chartered credit unions were more likely than their counterparts in the banking industry to rely on overdraft fees as a substantial revenue source.
In 2022, no California-chartered banks got more than 6.1% of their total income from overdraft fees and nonsufficient funds fees, according to the report. By contrast, 25 state-chartered credit unions got more than 6.1% of their total income from overdraft fees and NSF fees.
NSF fees may be charged when a financial institution denies a transaction because the customer’s account lacks sufficient funds.
The Colorado-based institution is overhauling its training procedures by using simulated VR experiences to prepare new member service representatives for their roles without the stress of serving live customers while supervisors watch.
Motive.io
When it comes to helping newly onboarded employees develop the skills and knowledge needed for success in their positions, most organizations use traditional methods like expansive handbooks or long lectures. While that may have worked for previous generations of workers, Ent Credit Union in Colorado Springs, Colorado, is trying something new: virtual reality.
In so doing, it joins a small, but growing, group of financial institutions seeking to help the next generation of front line staffers acclimate to the responsibilities of their roles — without the stressors of “trial by fire” training sessions facing real customers with supervisors watching.
The $10 billion-asset Ent began working with the Vancouver, British Columbia-based Motive.io and Aequilibrium in October to explore how the credit union could make training programs more interactive by leveraging virtual reality. Both firms specialize in the catch-all concept of extended reality, which in addition to virtual reality also includes augmented reality and mixed reality.
“Often with new member service representatives, they stress over wondering if they said or did the right thing during a traditional scenario-based learning session with a human [respondent]. … The really cool piece about VR is that they get to play and go down that rabbit trail basically, and figure out where their mistakes were without it being high risk,” said Lori Benton, vice president of learning and cultural enrichment at Ent Credit Union.
Digital consultants at Aequilibrium helped develop the credit union-specific scenarios in the software on behalf of Ent and provided the institution with VR devices. They worked closely with department heads at Ent to better understand what skills need to be emphasized, explained Adrian Moise, founder and chief executive of Aequilibrium.
In addition to technical skills, the scenarios his firm created also help sharpen soft skills such as etiquette for interacting with members, Moise said.
The Aequilibrium team uses Motive’s software development kit to work in the cross-platform game engine Unity. Through the SDK, the three-dimensional environment can be programmed to include moveable objects and other interactive elements like virtual AI-powered avatars that simulate conversations by acknowledging user responses and progress along a prewritten script. The credit union is creating avatars using the text-to-speech avatar tool in Microsoft’s Azure AI platform.
Aequilibrium designers then move to Motive’s Storyflow tool after the test environment is established to write the step-by-step progression of the scenario, which involves prebuilt modules that represent different prompts like visual cues to advance the story as well as actions to interact with props. Modules also include vocal phrases for the aforementioned avatars to activate when conversing with the employee.
In Ent’s case, as employees talk to the avatars, the AI will compare their responses against a bank of understood phrases and generate scores based on how close the employee was to the list of acceptable answers. This characteristic, also known as intent recognition, provides the avatar with a greater element of flexibility when compared to focusing on exact matches.
Peter Wittig, director of customer experience at Motive, said the adjustability of the platform helps reduce the necessary time needed to update the scenarios.
“Most people make VR like a music box, where the tune is part of the machine and if you ever want to change the tune, you have to send it back to a bunch of software developers,” Wittig said. “The approach we take is [more like] allowing users to create a stage that they can then create scripts to play out on it.”
1/4
An example of what a three-dimensional simulation environment and all its assets could look like. (Aequilibrium)
2/4
Motive.io’s Storyflow platform allows users to build custom scenarios using module blocks as well as custom scripts. (Aequilibrium)
3/4
Dialogue between employees and the AI-powered avatars are broken down in this example to showcase how each phrase is categorized and understood by the bot. (Aequilibrium)
4/4
Perspective of the employee interacting with the bot, accompanied by a visual cue for what to say. (Aequilibrium)
Once the storyboarding is complete and rolled out using the firm’s content management system, employees will receive a code to complete a session using the VR device of their choosing. Results are compiled in the CMS for training staff to review and identify problem areas on an individual and aggregate basis.
“We’re really trying to walk away from a lot of [traditional training methods] and use modern technology because the people we hire use modern technology in their day to day lives,” Benton said.
Banks and credit unions need to use proper due diligence when training AI bots, experts said. They also need to recognize that users will have varying levels of reception to the technology.
“Sometimes AI can surprise us by doing something in a way that we wouldn’t have thought of. So how do you trust it enough to do the right thing, and distrust it enough to always double check and make sure that what you’re doing is [both] accurate and appropriate,” said Donna Z. Davis, director of the immersive media communication master’s program and Oregon Reality (OR) Lab at the University of Oregon. “At the end of the day, there always has to be a human looking at the whole picture.”
The campaign is still in the developmental stage at Ent, but is slated to be put to use with member service representatives as the resources near completion.
“Depending on who facilitates the training, you can get a varied experience. … With the virtual reality tool, it’s a fairly consistent experience,” said Marnie Gerkhardt, director of learning innovation at Ent. “So it can build that consistency with the responses and the behaviors within our teams.”
OnPath Federal Credit Union would become the third largest credit union in Louisiana after it completes its merger with Louisiana Federal Credit Union next year.
OnPath Federal Credit Union and Louisiana Federal Credit Union have announced the largest credit union merger in Louisiana’s history.
If approved, the deal would create the third-largest credit union in the state.
The combined credit union will do business as OnPath Credit Union and would have more than $1 billion of assets serving more than 89,000 members with 15 branches throughout Louisiana. Metairie-based OnPath said Monday that the deal is set to be finalized by mid-2024.
“During these times of uncertainty, as more individuals and communities grapple with financial challenges, the merger with Louisiana Federal Credit Union becomes an opportunity to combine our capabilities,” said OnPath’s President and CEO Jared Freeman in the release. “By uniting our strengths and harnessing increased economies of scale, we aim to extend our service to a larger membership base and elevate our impact on the communities we serve.”
Freeman added that becoming a larger credit union would provide opportunities to position the $624 million-asset OnPath for continued growth.
Worries about outdated business models and disruption by fintechs and other competitors such as Apple are driving more credit unions to consider mergers, said Peter Duffy, managing director for Piper Sandler.
“There is a more widely held belief that organic growth isn’t enough to sustain minimum scale,” Duffy said in an interview. “Increasingly, boards are understanding the cost to replace retiring C-suite folks and that a combination with another credit union can solve some of those problems.”
Both OnPath and Louisiana FCU have struggled with earnings this year.
OnPath lost $2.4 million in the first three quarters of 2023, compared with earnings of $5.6 million a year earlier, according to call report data from the NCUA. Louisiana FCU earned $2 million in the first three quarters of 2023, a 57% decrease compared with a year earlier.
Rhonda Hotard, president and CEO of La Place-based Louisiana FCU, said the partnership will expand services for members of the $404 million-asset company, including access to additional branches and a larger ATM/ITM network.
“We look forward to organically growing together for the benefit of our members and the communities we serve,” she said in the release.
There have been a dearth of deals in recent years among midsize credit unions.
Among notable transactions announced in 2023 was the $1.8 billion Hiway Credit Union in Saint Paul, Minnesota, announcing plans to merge with the $2.2 billion-asset Spire Credit Union in Falcon Heights.
The National Credit Union Administration approved 39 mergers in the third quarter, bringing the total number of deals for the year to 107. That is down 27% from the 146 mergers approved in the first three quarters of 2022.
Credit unions with assets of at least $500 million but less than $1 billion saw membership decline 4% year over year in the third quarter, according to the NCUA.
In Louisiana, only the $2.2 billion-asset Barksdale Federal Credit Union in Bossier City and the $1.2 billion-asset Neighbors Federal Credit Union in Baton Rouge would be larger than OnPath after the merger is finalized.
Jim Handley (left), chief credit officer for Sunlight Federal Credit Union and Shivan Perera (right), senior vice president of participations and debt for Avana Capital. “We’re a community credit union in a small, rural area, and the sheer number of deals and available business opportunities is not the same for me as it is for somebody in a bigger state or bigger market area,” Handley said.
Sunlight Federal Credit Union is working to grow its portfolio of commercial real estate loans by expanding the scope of available deals and mitigating the risks associated with entering new markets.
The size of the $200 million-asset credit union based in Cody, Wyoming, works against these efforts.
“We’re a community credit union in a small, rural area, and the sheer number of deals and available business opportunities is not the same for me as it is for somebody in a bigger state or bigger market area,” said Jim Handley, the credit union’s chief credit officer.
To address this shortcoming, Sunlight is working with Avana Capital, a lending subsidiary of the Peoria, Arizona-based Aana Companies, to gain insight into the pricing levels of potential deals relevant to the market and help broker both the sale and purchase of CRE loan participations across the U.S.
Avana’s network of in-house credit analysts review the terms of a loan before it is offered to the member and recommends concessions such as additional guarantors to reduce the likelihood of any delinquency. After being approved by Sunlight’s underwriters, Avana helps sell the remaining portions of the deal to other interested financial institutions. It has worked with Sunlight since 2021.
Sunlight has more than $18 million in commercial loans secured by real estate to members and just under $34.5 million in purchased participations for similar loans at other institutions, according to Third-quarter call report data from the National Credit Union Administration. The average value of each participation was just under $1 million.
“A larger bank isn’t gonna necessarily mess with a smaller credit because their minimum size for a deal might be $10 million or something along those lines. … But for a deal, say $5 million in size, that investment size split among numerous smaller institutions is attractive to organizations that don’t have just an endless supply of money to do deals,” Handley said.
Shivan Perera, senior vice president of participations and debt for Avana Capital, said the firm’s continual portfolio servicing, when combined with ample diversification, is a crucial method for lessening the impact of any one market segment’s poor performance.
“Risk is not always just at the loan level, there’s also portfolio risk as well. … There are a lot of shops out there that are more concerned with production, but we always emphasize credit first and production second,” Perera said. “Credit union consolidation is a growing trend, so we’re very focused on preserving the industry however we can.”
Delinquencies and charge-offs at credit unions nationwide rose in the second quarter, while community banking leaders expressed concerns that proposed capital reforms could further constrain lending activity for smaller institutions.
To streamline the process, turning to fintechs that specialize in aggregating data and structuring it into a more digestible format can free up resources for more involved cases.
By offloading the document gathering process, “the work is much easier since it’s now a credit risk decision, minus all the hours and hours of people’s time to gather and assess” financial statements, said Tim Scholten, founder and president of the community bank and credit union consultancy Visible Progress.
The best way to weather market shifts involves proper management of the “existing book of business’ credit quality” and diligence when reviewing outstanding agreements should be top of mind for wary leaders, said Joel Pruis, senior director at Cornerstone Advisors.
Under the contract with the Department of Defense, Navy Federal would operate 60 banking facilities and 275 ATMs throughout Europe and the Pacific.
billtster/Adobe Stock
Navy Federal Credit Union’s contract with the Department of Defense to provide banking services to military personnel serving abroad faces an obstacle bigger than any bank lobby — the credit union’s own regulator, which insists it cannot provide deposit insurance under the terms of the deal.
The Department of Defense established the overseas banking program after World War II to provide active-duty military members with retail, financial and cash services. The Vienna, Virginia-based Navy Federal is taking over the contract that had been held for 40 years by the $3.1 trillion-asset Bank of America.
The agreement was already under fire from the banking industry, and now the National Credit Union Administration says federal law prevents it from insuring any accounts offered through the program.
Under the terms of this program, the service members become customers of “Community Bank, operated by Navy Federal Credit Union,” and not members of Navy Federal itself — a distinction that would make it neither “permissible [n]or proper” under the Federal Credit Union Act to insure those accounts through the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund, an NCUA spokesman said.
“Deposits made by customers of the Community Bank as part of the Overseas Military Banking Program are separate and apart from those deposited by members of Navy Federal Credit Union,” said the spokesman, Joe Adamoli. “Navy Federal would only be acting as a servicer for the DoD program, and the deposits from that program would not be those of Navy Federal’s members.”
Navy Federal isn’t satisfied with this explanation. In an email to American Banker, Mary McDuffie, president and CEO of the $165 billion-asset credit union, said that under the law, the NCUA can insure any credit union activity it determines to be proper.
“But somehow, it has not found it ‘proper’ to provide insurance to a DoD program that supports deployed overseas service members and their commands,” she wrote. “It is rare that we see resistance to our mission-driven efforts that we are experiencing from the NCUA. Without a committed insurance partner in this OMBP endeavor, the NCUA is going to leave service members and their families overseas without the financial support that they deserve.”
Under the contract, Navy Federal would operate 60 banking facilities and 275 ATMs throughout Europe and the Pacific.
Anthony Hernandez, president and CEO of the Defense Credit Union Council, which advocates for the interests of America’s credit unions serving the military and veteran communities, said the Department of Defense was asked to brief the Senate Committee on Armed Services about the issue last week.
“From what I understand, DoD acknowledged the problem and discussed a few alternatives,” Hernandez said. “[The council] is always concerned when DoD or anyone else speaks to Congress about any aspect of its banking program. This issue directly impacts each of our member credit unions who serve on military installations without the benefit of a government contract.”
Even if the issue of deposit insurance is resolved, the deal faces other hurdles, as representatives from the banking industry have highlighted.
The Association of Military Banks of America has several issues with the contract being awarded to Navy Federal, including that the Department of Defense will no longer be able to credibly enforce its “one bank-one credit union” policy in the United States, said Steven Lepper, the association’s president and CEO.
That policy has been in force for a couple of decades and precludes banks from competing with other banks, and credit unions from competing with other credit unions, on military installations. When Bank of America held the contract, a credit union could open a branch on the same base without tipping the balance; with Navy Federal taking over for BofA, it would add a second credit union to the bases that already have one.
The policy is meant to give military personnel, families and military organizations a choice of types of financial institutions, products and services without overpopulating bases with banks and credit unions, Lepper said.
Credit unions are exempt from the lease costs that banks would pay to operate on these bases, Lepper said. This made it easier for credit unions to come in and compete with Bank of America, but any banks that choose to compete with Navy Federal would not have the same advantage, he said.
“The departure of banks from military bases, driven by a disparity in lease costs, will accelerate if multiple credit unions can fill the resulting void,” Lepper said.
Lepper said the contract “debacle” has illuminated the dysfunction inherent in the Department of Defense banking program.
Both the American Bankers Association and the Independent Community Bankers of America declined to comment on Navy Federal’s involvement in the overseas banking issue. But in a post on LinkedIn, the ICBA’s president and CEO, Rebeca Romero Rainey, said Navy Federal appears to be trying to mask the fact that it is a global financial institution that does not pay taxes or meet the same level of regulatory standards as community banks.
“With large credit unions now apparently insecure enough about their industry to want to pretend they’re community banks, Congress should use this opportunity to investigate the nation’s outdated credit union policies — and whether the government should continue subsidizing acquisitions of real, local, taxpaying community banks,” she wrote.
Lepper said he is concerned that more banks will leave military installations if credit unions feel emboldened by BofA’s departure. He said the credit union lobby has already prevented AMBA from securing legislative relief allowing banks to operate free of lease charges on military bases — a benefit credit unions already enjoy.
“We fear that the credit union lobby will shift into overdrive to ensure rising lease costs close the few remaining banks on bases so that credit unions can take their place,” he said.
Navy Federal Credit Union won a contract from the Department of Defense to operate the Overseas Military Banking Program. Bank of America had held the contract for 40 years before deciding not to renew it.
Adobe stock
U.S. military bases across the globe are about to see a major change on the financial services front.
The Department of Defense has awarded Navy Federal Credit Union a contract to begin operating the Overseas Military Banking Program later this year. The $3.1 trillion-asset Bank of America in Charlotte, North Carolina, has held the contract for the past 40 years.
The program was established after World War II to provide active duty military members with retail, financial and cash services. It provides access to foreign currency, local ATMs, bill pay, savings and checking accounts, and other products.
“We’re very proud to have been awarded this contract. Supporting active-duty personnel and their families, wherever they are stationed, is at the core of Navy Federal’s mission,” Mary McDuffie, president and CEO of Navy Federal, said in a press release.
Under the contract, the $165 billion-asset Navy Federal — the largest credit union in the world — will operate 60 banking facilities and 275 ATMs throughout Europe and the Pacific. Per federal requirements, the program will be known overseas as “Community Bank, Operated by Navy Federal Credit Union.”
But there are concerns about Navy Federal’s ability to obtain sufficient deposit insurance to fulfill the contract.
In a letter to the Department of Defense, the Defense Credit Union Council said it is “deeply concerned” about some of the terms and the bid selection process.
The group, which advocates for the interests of America’s credit unions serving the military and veteran communities, said it believes there are legal and regulatory compliance issues that could harm military members and their families and erode goodwill with the credit union industry.
At issue, the group said, is the ability for a credit union to obtain mandatory deposit insurance for overseas bank customers and military families that are served through this particular program. The group said that Navy Federal has entered uncharted territory and it is not clear that credit unions, through standard processes, can insure deposits outside of the United States under this contract.
An NCUA spokesman confirmed that the program is not currently insured through the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund but did not elaborate. The NCUA fund insures credit union deposits in the U.S.
“Executing an overseas banking contract without deposit insurance would be unconscionable given recent bank failures such as Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank,” wrote the group’s President and CEO Anthony Hernandez.
Vienna, Virginia-based Navy Federal acknowledged the concerns but said it expects it will be able to address the insurance issue during a transition period. A spokesperson said the contract was awarded in two phases. The first phase will be a transition period where customer accounts will continue to be backed by BofA.
The second phase will begin on April 1 when Navy Federal will take over the program. That should provide “ample time to work alongside the Defense Finance Accounting Service to ensure the safety and soundness of the deposits when Navy Federal assumes responsibility,” the spokesman said.
The contract also contains eight additional one-year options.
Still, “DCUC remains concerned that DoD awarded a contract without federal deposit insurance for military members and their families who are serving overseas and in harm’s way. Our military deserves the same level of protection no matter where they serve,” Hernandez said.
For its part, BofA confirmed it made the decision not to renew its contract with the DoD, though it did not explain why.
“… Upon completion of the terms of the current contract, the decision was made to allow another financial institution to bid for the next global contract term,” BofA spokesman Andy Aldridge said. “Can’t get into the strategy of why we choose to enter or exit any particular business.”
The $35 billion-asset Pentagon Federal Credit Union in McLean, Virginia, operates branches on two military bases overseas — in Okinawa, Japan, and Guam. PenFed did not bid on the DoD contract, President and CEO James Schenck said. This contract is separate from the program that Navy Federal will be taking over.
“Having Navy FCU on overseas bases will give servicemembers several great organizations to choose from … to handle their financial needs while deployed,” he said.
Navy Federal serves all branches of the military, including the Navy, Army, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard and Space Force. Last year, members visited one of the 354 Navy branches worldwide more than 21 million times.
USAlliance Federal Credit Union names Harry Zhu as its next president and chief executive; HSBC launches business account-opening portal in 20 countries; Swift enters next phase of its central bank digital currency solution and more in the weekly banking news roundup.
Staffing issues remained a chief concern for organizations of all sizes, as the “great resignation” stretches into its second year. But the honorees on this year’s list of Best Credit Unions to Work For are developing programs that meet the needs of current employees and entice new generations of talent to join.
Seventy credit unions were honored this year, spanning across the U.S. and ranging in size from as small as 22 employees at PAHO/WHO Federal Credit Union in Washington, D.C., to as large as 3,258 team members at America First Credit Union in Riverdale, Utah.
Those that made the list were selected through two different surveys with the help of Best Companies Group. The first survey examines employee satisfaction and covers eight areas, including leadership and planning, corporate culture and communication and overall engagement. An institution needed at least a 40% participation rate in the survey, and on average at least 80% of respondents had to answer “agree strongly” or “agree somewhat” across the different topics.
The second survey evaluates the benefits and policies of each credit union, including deciding factors such as cost-free telehealth visits, volunteer days with local nonprofit organizations and employee appreciation events.
Read more about this year’s honorees for Best Credit Unions to Work For below, and click here to view the second grouping of honorees ranked 36 to 70.
(Asset totals and employee headcounts were provided by the credit unions at the time of application.)
Under the new terms with Lakewood, Washington-based Harborstone, the the $175 million-asset bank’s shareholders will receive approximately $6.90 to $7.10 in cash for each share of First Sound Bank common stock owned, subject to adjustment based on the equity value at closing, the companies said in a press release Tuesday.
Following completion of the transaction, First Sound Bank will liquidate and distribute its remaining assets to its stockholders. The deal would push the $1.9 billion-asset Harborstone past the $2 billion-asset mark.
The acquisition, which Harborstone expects to close in the first quarter of 2024, would help the credit union grow its presence in the Seattle market, diversify its assets and add talent and expertise, the credit union said.
“[We] owe this opportunity to the decades of smart and strategic decisions that have created a solid foundation for our expansion,” Harborstone’s President and CEO.Geoff Bullock said in the press release.
Marty Steele, president and CEO of First Sound Bank, said the deal provides many benefits for its customers, employees, community and shareholders.
“As a community bank, we are deeply focused on providing resources and services for our customers to succeed, and feel the additional services, products and locations Harborstone Credit Union provides will help us continue to meet the needs of our customers in this competitive environment,” Steele said in the press release.
The combined institution would have approximately $2.1 billion in assets, $1.5 billion in loans, $1.8 billion in shares and deposits, and 16 branches throughout King, Pierce and Thurston counties.
The deal is the fifth involving a credit union buying a bank announced in 2023. By this time last year, nine credit union-bank deals had been announced.
Steve Swofford, the president and CEO of Alabama Credit Union — which acquired Security Federal Savings Bank in 2021 — said in an interview Wednesday that his company is not actively looking at bank targets today, and he believes some potential sellers feel that their values are too depressed to get a fair price.
“Bank values are lower due to their holding portfolios of securities that have sizable losses in them,” Swofford said. Alabama Credit Union is based in Tuscaloosa and has $1.8 billion of assets.
Traditional credit union mergers and bank acquisitions have also been slow to develop this year.
McQueen Financial Advisors served as financial advisor for Harborstone and Luse Gorman, PC was its legal counsel. First Sound Bank was advised by D.A. Davidson Companies and Keller Rohrback, L.L.P.
Harborstone Credit Union earned $4.2 million in the first six months of 2023, a 50% decrease from a year earlier, according to call report data from the National Credit Union Administration.
Without strong ties between members, how are modern credit unions any different than banks — aside from not paying taxes? Congress ought to take up that question, writes Robert Flock.
Lexicon Images/lexiconimages – stock.adobe.com
In the decades-long march toward nationwide field of membership, the National Credit Union Administration – the regulator and deposit insurer for federal credit unions – has championed numerous policies relaxing membership regulations, making it easier for people to join credit unions. Time and again, the NCUA has advanced seemingly minor changes to these foundational rules in the name of modernization. Taken together, these modifications have accelerated the credit union industry’s rapid expansion.
Credit unions are tax-exempt financial institutions, chartered by Congress to serve low- and moderate-income (LMI) individuals in otherwise underserved local communities. Defined fields of membership, which limit who can join a credit union to those who are meaningfully connected via some common bond, exist to ensure that credit unions remain focused on serving underserved communities.
But as a result of the NCUA’s incremental adjustments, membership criteria has become so diluted that anyone can join a credit union, with the industry now comprising more than 136 million members across the country. One of the nation’s largest credit unions openly dismisses any idea of a membership limit by advertising “great rates for everyone.”
And the NCUA is at it again.
At first glance, the NCUA’s most recent proposed rule on chartering and field of membership appears technical and straightforward: increasing access to financial services in LMI communities by “streamlining application requirements and clarifying procedures.” However, the board extended the typical 60-day comment period to 90 days given the intricacies of the proposed changes, a glaring sign there’s more to it than meets the eye.
Comment letters from credit union groups spelled out their goal of eliminating field of membership entirely. One trade associationnoted “we consistently urge Congress to relax or eliminate these restrictions” whileanother “strongly encourage[d] the NCUA to embrace its principles-based philosophy and avoid unnecessarily limiting any person’s access to credit union services.”
Expanding access to financial services in underserved areas is laudable. Indeed, credit unions were created — and receive preferential tax and regulatory treatment — to provide services to individuals in those communities. The NCUA’s proposal, however, includes several amendments that would ultimately dilute credit union service to the local communities they are meant to serve.
For example, the proposed rule would allow credit unions chartered to serve a specific local community to add remote workers for companies headquartered in that community to its field of membership. That might seem reasonable on its face, but in practice it means that a tax-exempt credit union chartered to meet unmet financial services needs in the city of Seattle can now focus instead on meeting the needs of Starbucks employees worldwide.
Similarly, the proposed rule would allow credit unions to add noncontiguous rural districts to their fields of membership. Practically speaking, this new policy would enable a credit union in New Mexico to add an underserved rural district in Louisiana to its field of membership, flying in the face of the Federal Credit Union Act, which requires credit unions to maintain a “local” presence.
Furthermore, for credit unions seeking to enter underserved markets, this proposed rule would simplify the statement of unmet needs (SUN statement) that must be submitted. This one-pagenarrative describes the unmet need for financial services in the identified area supported by third-party data. In eliminating the one-page and third-party evidence requirements, the NCUA further waters down this already simple but crucial requirement to provide thoughtful analysis of the needs of the communities they seek to serve.
As it relates to business and marketing plans for new community charter and community charter conversion or expansion applications, the NCUA’s proposal would remove requirements that applicants outline community access to the credit union vis-à-vis parking availability, public transportation availability and a host of other elements. While these adjustments are billed as minor technical adjustments, the omission of information regarding branch structure might adversely impact disabled and elderly populations as well as those with mobility limitations.
The NCUA’s proposed rule on chartering and field of membership follows five other rules relaxing membership standards throughout the last several years. While each imparts only subtle changes to the overarching field of membership architecture on its own, the cumulative effect of these rules is undeniably a weakening of the standard for credit union membership and community service. The common bond used to be a central component of the credit union movement. Without strong ties between members, how are modern credit unions any different than banks — aside from not paying taxes? Congress ought to take up that question.