SPEAKER 1: Games in this podcast range from E to M.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Hello, and welcome to the official Xbox Podcast, the only podcast that comes to you from right here inside Xbox.
Today, you’re going to meet the makers of two of the biggest games in the world: Diablo 4 and EA Sports FC 25, and we’re getting our hands with the brand-new Cypher Series Transparent Controllers.
Now, the last few weeks, things have been a little bit different.
We were at TGS.
We were at the Grand Canyon.
We were at an amazing Dragon Age event.
I’m really excited that today, we are back here with some of our good friends that I love to speak to.
Jenn Panattoni, how you doing?
JENN PANATTONI: Living the dream, my friend.
How are you?
It’s good to be back.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, it is great to have you, and you wanted to be on the show this week, not as your role of the head of social impact, because you were playing something, and you just couldn’t stop telling me about it, and I was like, just save it for the show.
JENN PANATTONI: I’m super excited.
We’ll get there.
I’m having a hard time keeping it in right now, but I’m here for it.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Josh Stein, welcome back to the show.
You’re going to be doing one of the interviews here in a little bit for Diablo 4 with our good friend Rod Fergusson, among others.
I love calling you the “resident me master,” but apparently, it says here you’re the Senior Marcom Manager.
Sure.
JOSH STEIN: I like your title better.
It makes me feel like I’m at least doing my job somewhat well.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: There we go.
JOSH STEIN: But thank you for having me.
Always a pleasure to be back.
I don’t know why you guys keep forgetting how bad I am at this show.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: The ratings say otherwise.
JOSH STEIN: I love you too.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It’s always good to have you here, but Jenn, let’s just get to that.
We do have a lot of news.
We’re going to talk about the latest Game Pass additions, of which there are quite a few, including some from last week, at Tokyo Game Show.
Like I said, we’re going to be speaking with some of the devs, and also, we’ve got some controllers that I’m looking at right down there.
They’re really pretty, but you can’t stop talking about Frostpunk 2.
JENN PANATTONI: I can’t.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I need to hear a little bit more about this.
JENN PANATTONI: Have either of you played the original Frostpunk?
JOSH STEIN: No, but I have played Frostpunk 2, like three hours, and it’s very stressful.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I almost got frostbite once.
Does that?
No.
JENN PANATTONI: I go.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Close?
JENN PANATTONI: Close.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Just wear gloves, people.
JENN PANATTONI: Many things.
I got voted out three times in the tutorial alone.
JOSH STEIN: You can get voted out?
JENN PANATTONI: Your community will vote you out if you are too bad.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: What kind of game is this, first of all?
JENN PANATTONI: It’s a grand strategy game you may have seen.
I was on the show previously to talk about strategy games.
I love amazing strategy games.
Frostpunk 1, the premise is the world has ended and frozen over Syria and Ice Age.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Little Snowpiercer action.
JENN PANATTONI: A little, except no train circumventing the world.
There’s a generator, and you have to build a civilization around it because heat, you got to live.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: No Chris Evans saying, “I ate a baby.” JENN PANATTONI: Correct.
No very young Chris Evans.
JOSH STEIN: Train conductor.
JENN PANATTONI: Exactly.
So the premise is you basically have to survive, and everything is frozen over, and Frostpunk 1, you’re just starting.
They even had a DLC that was the first freeze.
I forget what it’s called.
Great game.
Makes you make some really difficult decisions, and so Frostpunk 2 just came to PC Game Pass.
The second it got there, I downloaded it.
I have never played a game that I both love and frustrates me so much.
Strategy games oftentimes you’ll focus on one thing.
You have about 12 things to focus on in Frostpunk 2, and if you don’t, you’re going to get voted out.
Something bad’s going to happen.
You’re going to have to make some really difficult decisions.
JOSH STEIN: Is it game over if you get voted out?
JENN PANATTONI: Correct.
You start over.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It sounds like your frustrations are less with the game, and more with, like the perils of leadership.
JENN PANATTONI: Correct.
JOSH STEIN: You have to keep these people alive.
JENN PANATTONI: Well, there’s also, like, you all know me, like animal rescue is basically my entire personality, and at one point, there was this situation that popped up, and you have to feed people.
You don’t have food; you die.
At one point, there was this thing with seals, and it’s like, “Well, we’re down to the wire now.
What do you want to do with these seals?” I was like, oh, no.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: There’s so much delicious blubber.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah.
JOSH STEIN: Life fat.
That’s got to keep people warm, man.
JENN PANATTONI: You can, like, sustainably do it and do it over time, but it’s a game you really play on pause.
In the original Frostpunk, you just make laws, and you make decisions for the community because you’re really in charge.
At this point, there have been certain factions that have shown up, and you really have to balance, like, the Stalwarts want this.
The Pilgrims want this, but that’s going to piss them off.
So then I need to get this vote through, so I need to make a deal with these folks.
And if you don’t keep that deal, then you’re going to make someone mad.
JOSH STEIN: You can be ready for Congress by the time.
JENN PANATTONI: If trust goes down enough, that’s when you get voted out, or you can run out of coal.
Like, right now, I finally beat Level 1.
It’s like this.
I’ve got voted out three times in the tutorial.
I got to Level 1, I got voted out six times and died twice.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: But this is some dangerous stuff.
JENN PANATTONI: Well, everyone freezes to death.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Oh, well, there you go.
JENN PANATTONI: At one point, I finally was positive in, like, coal, food, housing, everything.
I actually pause the game and went to my freezer and got myself an ice cream sandwich to reward myself.
JOSH STEIN: Something psychological about that, eating a frozen bop while your entire civilization is freezing to death.
JENN PANATTONI: They were finally warm.
That’s why I felt good enough to do it, but it is such a good game.
But yeah, you have to keep on track of everything, and it’s a lot more.
This one, too, actually, you have outposts, so you can establish trade routes, and that’s a new thing.
Basically, the premise of this one is you have established society.
Like in the beginning, you’re in Frostpunk 1, you’re researching automatons so they can do some of the stuff for you.
That’s already a technology here.
You’re advanced in civilization now.
It’s amazing.
I can’t stop talking about it, and I won’t.
It’s probably going to take me about a month to beat the game and I’m playing on easy.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: No shame in that, especially for something [inaudible].
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah, no.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: This is in Game Pass.
JENN PANATTONI: This is in Game Pass.
PC.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very good.
It’s not the only recent 4X game to hit PC Game Pass, is it?
JENN PANATTONI: It is not.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We are both playing something.
JENN PANATTONI: We are both playing Ara: History Untold, and it is beautiful.
I have just talked a lot about, would you like to talk a little bit about Ara?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Sure, I’ve always loved Civilization.
A lot of folks that worked on Civ V are working on this game, and this is my story for this game.
It came out just about a week ago.
We’re here in October, somehow.
Please remind me.
And so Saturday morning, I woke up early, and I made a cup of coffee, and I just threw some, like English soccer on in the background just for some noise.
And I opened up my laptop, sat at the kitchen table, and I loaded the game up for the first time.
It was like 8:00 AM.
Oh, it’s noon now.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah.
Always happens.
JOSH STEIN: It’s a sign of a great game.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It was a game, and it is more of a one-way time travel machine where you only go forward, and you’re like, where did the last four hours go?
I went and made breakfast for everybody.
I did a thing or two.
I came back.
I sat down again at three.
It’s 7:00.
JOSH STEIN: That’s a good day.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I spent one-third of the day playing the game, and it was amazing that entire time.
I didn’t fire a shot and so the entire game, and you can play like a great 4x game.
There’s many ways to win, but the thing I think is really cool about Ara is the way you are rated is by just, like, how many things you’re able to do for your people.
It’s not just, like, am I just, like, full military and I annihilated everyone on the planet, or I’m full religion or I’m full commerce?
I was just like, play into, like, this is the hand I was dealt, like, where I was at.
I was like, wow, we’ve got like, good fishing, where I’m at.
JOSH STEIN: A homebrew.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah, and just like very early on, got hemmed in by, like, my rivals and so I was stuck and I was like, the only way I’m going to get out of here because I think they’re stronger than me is just by going all in on naval stuff and being able to explore and be able to get around them.
In doing so, I ended up, like, just in making my cities better, it was the best darn cities I could make, and it actually put me up towards the top, so I’m still playing.
I’m in like the second or third era, if you will.
JOSH STEIN: Do you like full naval?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah.
I thought it was the Reputation Era.
I can’t remember.
No, at this point, but terrible Taylor Swift joke, and you just were like, it’s really cool, and it’s one of those games where I just I want to see it through as far as I can, and if I don’t win, that’s fine, but I was playing on normal, and so far I haven’t gotten stomped, which is awesome, but I just really love the visuals, and it’s not hexes; it’s just, like, very organic feeling in the back.
Anyway, I think I’ll be playing a ton of this.
JENN PANATTONI: I did love that.
I love how, where I started out, I haven’t even done military or anything yet.
I think I have military units literally to just get rid of mountain lions and hyenas, and wolves so that I can continue expanding.
But just like how there’s so many different resources and so much fun stuff, I love, like, I was taking breaks from Frostpunk to play Ara because Frostpunk is a game right now, I have to prove that I’m better than it and Ara just like, I need my brain to melt for a second.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah.
It can get tough, it’s just a chill experience.
Just having fun.
JENN PANATTONI: It’s so much.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Expanding out through the world.
What’s the opposite of these games?
You just finished up, actually.
JOSH STEIN: I did.
I just finished Space Marine 2, the campaign, and I’m going through some of the co-op experiences and I love hearing, like, strategy, building, like, civilization and this frozen tundra, building up this naval academy and like, being this, like, premier, like, navy civilization.
I’m like, hell, yeah, brother, let’s go, brother.
We got it brother.
I’m playing the most, like, macho, large-machine, like, armored, like, bros that I could possibly imagine, and I’m loving every second of it.
These, like, alien Tyranids, like attacking.
Maybe I’m from an alternate universe in another life, but I love the idea that when I see 1,000 of these Tyranids pouring over and rushing at me, adrenaline picks up, and I’m just like, “Let’s go.” JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Were you a Starship Troopers fan?
JOSH STEIN: I am.
Yeah.
It’s very much in my vibe.
Love Gears of War.
Love Starfield.
It feels like the [inaudible].
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We’ll talk about that a little bit.
I played a little bit of the campaign, but this has a full package.
JOSH STEIN: Full package.
You can play multiplayer.
It’s got these nine co-op, like series, like missions you can go on.
You can customize your brother and make them look.
I just love how many times.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You’re in an MW world phaser.
JOSH STEIN: I need a brother counter, actually, for the game, to know how many times in the campaign the voice actors say the word brother, because I think it’s like, well over 5,000, but the game does a really great job.
At least in the campaign, I have to say, like, as you progress, it just gets more epic and epic.
Literally, like you’re at the, I almost spoil it, but at the end, there’s just pinnacle moments of the coolest thing you could ever wish of as you’re going through the campaign.
You then become that, or you do that.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I think I see it.
JOSH STEIN: It is three-player co-op.
Campaign two, you can play the whole campaign through.
I’ve done about half of it, and it’s even more fun because then you, like, I mean, we’ve talked about it before in my Hell Let Loose gaming.
I start role-playing along with my friend.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Clearly it’s something you really just, like, get all into, brother.
JOSH STEIN: Then we’re saying, “brother” like 12 times to each other, and they’re like, “I’ve lost my leg, brother.
Keep fighting.” JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You got another one.
JOSH STEIN: God gave you two, get up and get at it.
I’ve had so much fun with Space Marine 2, and I just finished that.
It’s been great.
Then now the Final Fantasy 2D Pixel series.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: The Pixel Remaster.
JOSH STEIN: Remasters.
I just downloaded all of those.
I’m going to start with one and just play through.
I think that’s going to be my casual through-the-year, pick one up, keep going, keep going, then put it down.
Yes.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I love that.
These are out on Xbox.
I was a big fan of Final Fantasy VI, which released, I remember when I played it here on the Super Nintendo, I guess, depending on what you called it SNES.
I’m not a SNES person.
JOSH STEIN: Depending on your age.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Old.
It was called Final Fantasy III at the time, but it was the sixth one.
Amazing.
I still think about it.
That’s the one I’ve got that, and I’ve got Final Fantasy V downloaded on my ASUS ROG Ally, because I feel like there’s a really good for travel, that’s the one I think that pioneered the job system.
JOSH STEIN: Yeah, it’s been really great to see these ratings games come over and more Final Fantasy games.
I’ve been a big fan of it, and obviously, I work over on social.
Seeing the fans react to that is super exciting.
It’s energetic.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It’s a 2D, and I think you might have been thinking about the Dragon Quest 2D, 3D remake.
The Pixel Remaster Final Fantasy.
Of course, Dragon Quest 3.
Two, three remake is coming back.
JOSH STEIN: I’m starting to fall in love with the series.
I never played it when I was younger.
I’m going through this journey of picking them up and checking them out.
I’m way out of order, but just having fun.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I also have like Final Fantasy.
I want to play through 13 again for whatever reason, like, my whole team is playing through 13.
JENN PANATTONI: I just went back and played 10, nearly finished it.
I love soundtracks.
The soundtrack of that one is stunning, but the story of it, I don’t cry in video games often, but the ending of that one is it gets you.
It just gets you.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: And you’re all into Blitzball.
Big Blitzball.
JENN PANATTONI: I actually not a huge Blitzball person because I’m not good at it.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It’s the quidditch of that game.
JENN PANATTONI: It’s water quidditch.
Literally, it’s water quidditch.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Something that I think we’re both starting.
We’re filming this the day after Space was Shattered because the big update, the first update, as they’re saying, to Starfield is out now, and then have you jumped in?
JENN PANATTONI: I did.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Oh, good.
JOSH STEIN: I’m like, 90 minutes in before, like, my kids are like, “Dad, like, come read to us.” So, I had to go do dad duties last night, so I got 90 minutes in.
So it’s going to be, like, probably my Friday night.
I’m going to go veg out and play the rest of as much of Shattered Space as I can ways.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah I just came out last night.
How far did you get to?
JENN PANATTONI: Probably about two hours, five hours.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We’re about the same thing in.
Hypothetically, if you were someone who, like, let’s say, they poured in 70 hours into the game last fall, and maybe hadn’t played since, I don’t know, October 27, did you notice, like, any, like as you first jump in, there’s, like, a lot of cool stuff that has been added over the course of the last year, besides Shattered Space, to the core game?
JENN PANATTONI: The custom content, I definitely went and bought, unsurprisingly to both of y’all, the plushies.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Wait, what are these?
I’m assuming you’re talking about creations.
JENN PANATTONI: About creations.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It’s a huge thing that’s added to the game.
If you haven’t loaded it up in a while, it’ll be the first thing that you see.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah, so there’s custom creations, and professor released some plushies.
I think my ship is every single galactic cat I ever found is in the cockpit.
JOSH STEIN: You’re like that viral video when the game came out and someone filled their ship with sandwiches.
JENN PANATTONI: Potatoes.
Really me.
JOSH STEIN: You’re like that, but with plushies.
Open the door, and a kind of plushies go out.
JENN PANATTONI: Galactic cats everywhere.
It’s galactic cats all the way down.
And so they have new plushies, but they have new, I believe, like weapon skins, and other things like that, and furniture.
There’s so much that I the debate I had last night was, do I explore this, or do I go shatter some space?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: It’s funny.
I was like, I’m just going to go into Shattered Space.
By the way, if you bought, you probably know this at this point because it’s the end of the week, but I was like, where is it?
How do I get into this?
In turns, I hadn’t downloaded it.
I bought the Ultimate Edition last year, so I went in, you go to manage your game, you just hit the hamburger button, and then you can see, oh, you just check the box, and then it installs like 14 gigs.
Then I noticed the first time I warped that something happened.
Where were you in the game, by the way when you got into Shattered Space?
Did you beat the game, and then you were in a new game plus situation, or how did you handle it?
JENN PANATTONI: New game plus, just one new game plus.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I went back to, I had made a save.
Past me did something, right?
Right before I went to the end game stuff to get into that stuff because I really wanted to go with Andrecha, who I was married to in my first playthrough.
So I went back to that, and then I uninstalled the thing from everyone’s like goodbye.
I’m like, actually, I’m not going anywhere.
Hold up.
And I uninstalled the thing from my ship, so it wouldn’t teleport me to the end game stuff, and then I went, and I got into that, which was really fun.
Also there’s a whole new trackers quest, which was really cool over into the series.
JOSH STEIN: You also have the revic plan at Rover.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yes, and the Rover.
JENN PANATTONI: That Rover is going to be so helpful.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I spent like two hours actually doing the beginning of the trackers quest and enjoying the new maps.
Also, upping the frame rate, which you can do.
JOSH STEIN: A lot of people have been asking, what do you have to do to, like, start this?
What do you have to Shattered Space to have to be a certain level?
You can jump at any time, but I think they were saying, like, if you can get, around level 20 at 35.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I think it’s at 35 that’s recommended.
JOSH STEIN: I’ve heard of rain, but I think 35 was like the top shelf.
You can leave level 35.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Not your recommended specs, not your min spec.
JENN PANATTONI: Yes.
JOSH STEIN: I like a challenge.
But yes, no, it’s fair to say, recommended it like 35, you can jump right in and then you’ll get a little mission that you can go.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: The first mission is called “One Small Step,” and next time you grab jump into orbit, like, not for an encounter.
You can just go to the map.
The Star map, I think I just teleport to Vega, and then you’re going to get a distress call.
You’re going to see a some sort of, like, space station in front of you.
and it will give you a distress call.
You just accept that quest, and boom, you are off and running.
JOSH STEIN: All good things happen when you answer a station distress call, right?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Exactly.
JOSH STEIN: Sci-fi culture has taught us.
All, good things happen.
JENN PANATTONI: Exactly, there’s the message that comes out, and then I tried to hail it, and there was nothing, and I was like, yep.
Everything is telling me not to do this, and I’m going right in.
JOSH STEIN: I know.
I love the thought process, whether it’s in TV, film, or video games, like distress call.
No one’s answering.
This will be okay.
JENN PANATTONI: Totally fine.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: One thing I’ve noticed because at least the first mission or so, lot of zero-G action, which I hadn’t really done a lot of it during the main playthrough.
And I was used a lot of shotguns, and there was no better way to fly backwards at a high rate of speed than to shoot.
So If I give you a tip, it’s like, make sure you have some good energy weapons, like shooting some lasers.
It does not have you know, equal and opposite reaction going back from trying to remember high school physics, where I played a lot of.
JENN PANATTONI: I had that moment up, “Why am I going backwards?” JEFF RUBENSTEIN: There you go.
Laser weapons can be really helpful there while the gravity is off.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You know where I’m going to want a lot of tips because it’s another huge update coming down the line just in a couple of days, and that is “Vessel of Hatred.” If I only I knew somebody who spoke to the head of Diablo.
Wait.
You’re here.
JOSH STEIN: I’m here.
Actually, I was super lucky to interview Rod Fergusson over Diablo and Aislyn, who also works on Diablo.
They were a wonderful pair.
I got to chat with them a few days ago and discuss what was going on, and I think we have an interview here.
I’m avoiding pouring into my hype for Vessel of Hatred as I’m getting.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We’ll talk about it on the other side.
JOSH STEIN: We can talk about the other side, yeah, if you want to tee it up.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: No, Let’s go right out to that interview with Rod Fergusson and Aisyln Hall.
JOSH STEIN: Hello, everybody, and welcome.
Today, I am joined with the wonderful Rod Fergusson, head of Diablo, and Aisyln Hall, a system designer on Diablo, and we’re going to be talking about all things Vessel of Hatred.
Now I know fans are excited for October 8, that’s coming up pretty soon, so I want to set the stage a little bit when it comes to what people can expect.
Now, first of all, a lot of people have been excited about the Spiritborn, a new class, and even new variants.
Rod and Aisyln, I’m curious, can we just share the high level of, what are these new class variants, and what can fans expect to play?
ROD FERGUSSON: Take it away, Aislyn.
AISYLN HALL: Sure.
Spiritborn is our new class in Vessel of Hatred.
It’s inspired from the deep jungles of Nahantu, and they have four spirit guardians.
They have the jaguar, the centipede, the eagle, and the gorilla, and each one represents a different playstyle.
You can expect a more defensive, beefier, punchier playstyle from the gorilla, and you’ve got a bunch of insidious poisons with the centipede, etc.
Each of them can be mixed and matched in really fun and interesting ways.
You can just go all in on gorilla, or you can go all in on centipede, or you can mix them together, or anything with the other two.
It really allows for a ton of variation, a ton of exploration with your character’s power, which is one of the most fun elements of Diablo as a franchise, I think.
Spiritborn really is one of the coolest additions to the franchise we’ve had in a really long time.
JOSH STEIN: It seems like they have different abilities, too.
Like you almost have the jaguars, that fire ability, the gorilla.
My words, it’s more like a physical Earth elemental comes in and pounds.
Then you said, you can mix and match these, is that right?
Is there like a main class and a subclass?
AISYLN HALL: You don’t necessarily have a main class or a subclass.
You you can pick skills from any one of the four spirit guardians, and you can go as deep into that as you want or as lightly into that as you want.
I think you can have six skills on your bar.
You can take like three skills from gorilla and three from centipede, or one from gorilla, and five from centipede.
Then they all have their own associated passives, and there’s also a spirit hall mechanic, which is the Spiritborn’s class mechanic where you can slot in one spirit guardian, which will give you a big bonus, like a passive that will trigger bonus attacks or bonus effects based on that spirit guardian’s strength, and then a second bonus as well.
It can be the same spirit guardian, again, or it can be a separate one.
It’s just all about mixing and matching.
ROD FERGUSSON: It’s been really great to be able to bring a brand new class to Diablo.
One of the big things for us was, like, the first five classes we did for Diablo IV were very much an homage to and respecting to the past.
The way the Rogue is like a demon hunter, meets assassin meets Amazon, that dexterity play and then bringing back the barbarian and the necromancer and true and Sork.
When we were looking at what are we going to do to grow the classes of the main game in terms of where could we go, the idea of making a class that comes from the place you’re going was really interesting.
To do a Spiritborn that not only is a new class, but comes from Nahantu was just a great match to give a whole new playstyle but make it consistent and relevant to where the expansion is going.
JOSH STEIN: You mentioned Nahantu.
Actually, that’s great to hear that we’re getting our first region expansion as well.
Not only do we get our first new class really since the game’s launch, but we’re also getting our new region expansion.
I think some fans of Diablo II and III might recognize this region a little bit, like this jungle region.
I’m curious to hear, what can players expect when they’re going to jump into this first new area?
ROD FERGUSSON: One of the things that really was about, why we decided to continue to keep going south on the Eastern continent was a little bit was driven from, like, what are the opportunities story-wise, where we could go?
There was also a what can we do that’s sort of visually interesting?
I know that our Art Director, John Mueller, he was very much like, “Hey, Diablo is very well known for sort of gothic medieval architecture, almost Eastern European gothic architecture.
What can we do to sort of mix that up and create some contrast?” This idea of going to an ancient jungle where these giant oversized trees, and all this foliage and overhang, and then you add the layer of Mephisto’s corruption to that, where that jungle is sort of being taken over by hatred, it really provides a new visual place to go when you’re playing.
But then, you know, that idea that the story is around Neyrelle taking Mephisto’s soul stone and trying to find a way to either destroy or imprison that idea of bringing Mephisto back to Karas, which is where his soul stone was originally back in Diablo II, has a sort of full-circle moment, which is really cool.
AISYLN HALL: Diablo has always been a very gothic place, as you said.
Like, I think that’s very core to the franchise.
But, a big part of that gothic element is just this darkness, this insidious like fear and horror.
I think the jungle can bring that out so well, going deep into these unknown thickets.
What’s inside?
Like turning a jungle into this really scary, horrific place is just so thrilling in a very base human way, I think.
JOSH STEIN: I think you guys have always done a great job of, just taking even just your dungeon building and how you build out the different worlds as we go through the rest of Diablo IV and adding, like, these little delights and surprises.
I got to actually play.
I was lucky enough at Gamescom.
I got to play a little bit of, I played the centipede.
Is it Balazan, I think?
I don’t want to mispronounce it.
But he’s like, it was just great to play I was in the jungle.
I was running around.
He comes out of the ground and spits hell on poison on all these little minions.
But I kept getting jumped in surprise.
I’d like go around this corner.
It was almost felt like I was lost in the jungle, and I kept having to actually look at the map to kind of see where I was going because I noticed you guys, just the way you’ve built it, and then looks like there’s like different tribes, different enemy types that would just jump out and try to combat you.
Can you guys share any little tidbits this early about some of the new enemies you might run into in this new land?
ROD FERGUSSON: We’re going into a new place.
We allowed us to bring new monster families, but also allowed us to bring back monster families from the past, like the Lacuni, which is really a fan favorite and something that’s really interesting.
And then even going into the place where our new coop dungeon, the Dark Citadel, really brought around this notion of the very first Goatman.
Like, what does it mean to be, Goatman Zero?
There’s sort of religion and that strive for power that caused the citadel to be created in the first place.
But Aislyn is better to talk about the specifics.
AISYLN HALL: Sure.
I love that.
Goatman Zero.
JOSH STEIN: Need to play a new box.
Like a little hidden box.
Goatman zero.
AISYLN HALL: No, yeah.
The Dark Citadel has the first Khazra, and they’re terrifying.
They are just Khazra leveled up, turned up to 11.
I love them.
They really add this degree of mystique, I think, to the citadel, which is pretty cool.
I also, of course, love the Lacuni coming back.
I played a lot of Diablo III.
I’m so tired of those guys throwing little bombs at me and then jumping at me, but I’m super excited for it to be back.
They have so many new animations, and they’ve come to life in a way that we haven’t seen before, which is just really cool to see them reimagined.
I’m also just really impressed by the team’s ability to bring so many new monster families to life.
Like, there’s just so much new content in the terms of different kinds of enemies you can fight in Vessel of Hatred compared to the scope of the base game.
It’s just like such another massive chunk of stuff, which has just been a joy to go through and just discover, basically.
There’s also the concept of the burnt knights, which I don’t want to go too much into details about because that they’re pretty core to the story.
I don’t really want to spoil much, but they’re at layer kind of like an offshoot of some factions you’ve seen before, and they evolve in their own way based on events from the original campaign, which is really exciting as well.
ROD FERGUSSON: The Hollows too are like this new creature that’s showing up in the hunt.
It’s like a manifestation of Mephisto’s hatred come to life, like this black ichor you see in the trailer we did at the showcase.
And that notion of that black ichor coming to life in a way in different forms, which creates the Hollows monster family.
It’s actually something we wanted to be actually more than just over the bridge in Nahantu.
We wanted it to actually start to seep out a little bit into sanctuary, just so when people play Season 6, they may get glimpses of that corruption and glimpses of some of those things because, we wanted that feeling that, even though that that story has taking place in Nahantu, we wanted to feel like it was leaking into Sanctuary as well.
JOSH STEIN: I love the idea that, not only do we get these new monster types, but you have this like you said, like, this black ichor guy stuff, like, also, like, corrupting the land and the different minions that you can maybe run into, and the baddies.
Feel you guys definitely marinate in the weird a lot, and just be like, let’s coat them in black ichor now.
Now, what have they transformed into?
ROD FERGUSSON: I mean, that’s part of what we were always trying to do, to bring some things that are new and interesting.
But it also, like that ichor and that sort of corruption that we wanted that Mephisto was bringing to Nahantu is sort of the call to action for the Spiritborn.
The Spiritborn are very, like, they want to defend their land, and they so people sometimes would be like, “Where were the Spiritborn when Lilith was around?” You’re like, well, that was a “you” problem.
That wasn’t a “them” problem.
Now that, you know, Mephisto is on their shores kind of thing, and they’re seeing that corruption in the jungle, changing around them in a really negative way.
And actually, something that’s really sacred to Spiritborn is the spirit realm, which is where the spirit guardians live.
That even Mephisto’s corruption is even breaking into that new realm.
That’s really important.
That’s why it activates the Spiritborn.
What’s cool is as you play a new Spiritborn, not only did you can play that way through the expansion, but you can actually go back and play the main game as a Spiritborn because we re-recorded all the dialogue for the Spiritborn to be able to play the main campaign.
That’s actually how I’m going to play because I love that relationship between Neyrelle and the player character, and I want to build that relationship through the main campaign first so that when I go into the expansion, we’ve spent a bunch of hours together already.
But, if your friends are playing the expansion tomorrow or whenever when we launch, then that idea that you can jump right in and you could skip the main campaign, watch the previously on Diablo IV video, and jump right in with your friends, and be a level one Spiritborn or be a level one Rogue, if you want to, and go and just play the expansion and have fun, so that you can come at it in many ways.
JOSH STEIN: Could you talk a little bit more about the new co-op game play mode?
AISYLN HALL: Totally.
The Dark Citadel, just to go a little deeper, is a game mode where you need to bring at least two players, and you can have up to four in Nahantu.
It’s available to Vessel of Hatred owners.
Again, like we talked about, it has the First Khazra.
They are just in this Dark Citadel doing goofy, bad, terrible things.
ROD FERGUSSON: As Khazra will do.
AISYLN HALL: Yes, as they do.
I love the Khazra.
They’re like, basic goblins, almost.
ROD FERGUSSON: This an elevation of them, though, I find, like the first Khazra, the idea, like, we all know Goatmen.
Those are the peasants of the Goatman.
These are like the higher beings of them.
JOSH STEIN: Like the royal knights of Khazra.
ROD FERGUSSON: The fact that you can collect their armor while you’re playing, like, as you beat the Dark Citadel, part of the cosmetics you can earn doing that is the armor is really cool.
AISYLN HALL: We have earnable cosmetics in the Dark Citadel, which is really exciting.
Those armor sets look amazing, which is a really good reason to go in and take out the bosses.
JOSH STEIN: I love looking good while just slaying, and the idea of, just picking a pauldron off a fallen enemy, “It’s mine now.” I go to feel for that.
So your friends know, I took you down.
AISYLN HALL: Yeah, you know, beat the Dark Citadel, put on the cosmetic set, parade yourself around town.
JOSH STEIN: It’s a badge of honor in the town square.
AISYLN HALL: Exactly.
The Dark Citadel has three different wings.
Each wing has bosses that you go, and you fight through hordes of enemies, and then you go, and I don’t want to spill like too much about, like how exactly the you know, there’s puzzles in there.
There’s different things that you have to noodle on with your friends to figure out how to beat the encounters and how to beat the bosses and that’s a big part of the Dark Citadel experience is coordination and overcoming these really exceptional challenges in a way that we haven’t necessarily seen in Diablo before.
ROD FERGUSSON: There’s other types of rewards as well, one is there’s a weekly cache.
We’re kind of hoping that you’ll play at least once a week.
You go in, and you go collect the weekly cache or throw a big rewards for you.
But as you play through Dark Citadel, you actually collect a Dark Citadel currency that you can then go to a vendor and spend to get really cool, like, scrolls, or really cool elixirs, or things that allow you to kind of change up some of the stuff or accelerate some things for you.
There’s a lot of different choices like the ability to spawn a loot goblin, as an example, would be one of them.
That idea of, “Hey, I can use this to change.” JOSH STEIN: I love that.
Snap it, and the gold comes to my feet.
ROD FERGUSSON: Exactly.
JOSH STEIN: I’ve been dreaming of that for five seasons, Ryan.
[LAUGHTER]
]
ROD FERGUSSON: But the big thing for why the co-op side is that there are mechanics involved, and so the notion that what Aislyn alluded to at the puzzles is that it’s more of a mechanics.
We learned from Season 3, when we brought in the traps, that people were like, “Traps are slowing me down to clearing a dungeon,” as opposed to making the dungeon necessarily all that much more interesting.
What we’ve done is really focused and learned a lot from Season 3 to say, “Okay, less about traps, more about mechanics,” and actually ways to make it more exciting for the combat.
That idea that the thing we have to do requires us to split up, so now, I’m going to go fight something, but now I have to fight alone, or I have to fight as a two instead of a four takes the stakes up, and working together, bring me back kind of stuff, which is really a cool, fun way that I really love about the Dark Citadel.
That idea of the coordination and playing together.
JOSH STEIN: Speaking of having your partner and friend, you guys are also adding mercenaries to the game, right?
AISYLN HALL: We are.
Yes.
We have our buddies coming back from their original implementation in Diablo II, and then their Evolution 3, and now they’re in four.
They can offer you a lot of new utility and power to your character.
The mercenaries are there with you from the beginning of your journey into Nahantu.
You’re going to meet one of the mercenaries really quickly during the campaign, and then you’ll be able to find more over time, experience their origin stories in a way, and learn about their character and their personality, and then eventually, effectively invite them to your band of Merry Men, as it were.
Each of them has their own skill tree where they can offer you some pretty exceptional passives and also powers.
I think the way that they excel the most in terms of how they affect the battlefield is they have ways where they can provide utility, like pull enemies in, or stun enemies around you, or give you a significant shield or damage reduction.
ROD FERGUSSON: It’s really two features.
It’s not like it’s this when you think of mercenaries, you have to think about the two ways.
One is a companion, like a person I’m traveling with.
That can happen when you play solo, you have a companion with you that you could have so that it feels like you’re in a party, and so you have your merc with you.
But once you pair up, like if Aislyn and I were playing, we wouldn’t have a companion anymore, but we would still be able to leverage the mercenaries because there’s a feature called “reinforcement,” which allows you to say, “Hey, even though you’re not traveling with me, when this thing happens, if I lose a lot of health, or when I cast this particular skill, I want you to do your thing, I want you to come in and do a thing.” You can pick different ones.
Even when I’m solo, I can have a companion and a reinforcement, and those are can be two different mercs.
It’s interesting that the layers you can build into your class and round out.
JOSH STEIN: I have to ask, just out of curiosity, what are your favorite Spiritborn combinations?
AISYLN HALL: I think my favorite guardian is the Eagle.
But I also absolutely love the Jaguar, because they just get in.
They just get in and they thrash and they thrash, and they do it again and again.
The Eagle is so mobile.
It really just feeds into the way I want to play Diablo, which is killing enemies as fast as possible, and then getting to the next pack as fast as possible.
JOSH STEIN: Hell, yeah.
AISYLN HALL: To kill more enemies as fast as possible.
JOSH STEIN: I love that.
AISYLN HALL: It’s very aggressive.
It’s a lot of fun.
[LAUGHTER].
ROD FERGUSSON: I tend to be a poison player.
I like that notion.
I started off being like, double centipede.
I wanted to be centipede-centipede, because there’s one particular skill where, when you stab an enemy, you basically plant eggs in them.
When you kill them, a pestilence Cloud gets born from them, and then that pestilence Cloud goes and hunts down enemies for you, which I love.
It’s why I’m a necromane.
I love when others do the work.
It’s great.
[LAUGHTER]
But playing more and more, I’m starting to really love the speed of the Jaguar, too, and be able to move quickly in the slashes and all that stuff.
I think I may end up being like a Centipede-Jaguar hybrid, I think.
But part of it is just the ultimates are so cool.
Sometimes you’re like, I just want to be a Centipede because I want the towering thing blasting, or I want to be a Jaguar because I love the ring of fire, or I want to be that Eagle that slams down or I want to be the Gorilla that just pounds the ground multiple times.
Summoning the spirit guardians to your aid as your ultimate, is just feels really, really cool.
I think there’s going to be some things that I just like the way it looks, whether it’s better for me power-wise or not.
[LAUGHTER]
JOSH STEIN: Spoken like a true player of the game.
Well, thank you, Rod, Thank you, Aislyn.
It’s exciting to hear.
It sounds like you guys have a ton of great content coming for players coming October 8th to Diablo: Vessel of Hatred.
Thank you both for joining me.
I’ll see you in the jungle.
AISYLN HALL: That’s right.
We’ll be there.
ROD FERGUSSON: I’m looking forward to the carry, Josh.
[LAUGHTER]
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Great interview, brother.
JOSH STEIN: Thank you, brother.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Always good.
We keeping track of those.
Always good to see Rod back on the show yet again.
Nice to meet Aislyn as well, very excited.
Do you know what class you’re going to be running?
Are you going straight in for the new class?
JOSH STEIN: I’m going to trade in and want to build the Spiritborn class.
I think I’m going to go Centipede-Eagle because you can have a sub and a main because the Eagle allows you to traverse just quicker.
And I’m always, like, “Come on.
Giddy up, horse.
Giddy up, horse.
Come on.” I might go with that one, but I usually don’t run ults, but this season, I might run an ult, because the gorilla and the jaguar skills also look like a really fun, like slam-fire combination.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: All the animal talk, Jenn is just like bursting.
They finally put you in the game.
JOSH STEIN: They put four of you.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yes.
JOSH STEIN: Yeah.
I don’t know how you feel about bugs, but you get a centipede, you get a gorilla, you get a jaguar, and you get an eagle.
JENN PANATTONI: Sign me the heck up.
I have pets.
JOSH STEIN: You have pets, too, now?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You’re way ahead of that.
JOSH STEIN: I have dog that follows me around, and he collects all my goal for me.
That’s great.
JENN PANATTONI: He can get a little snow leopard cop.
Actually, I’m going to try it.
I think we talked about this last time, but I’m usually just such a necromancer purist since they brought it back, and I’m trying to learn how to not be a glass canon, because that’s exactly a necromancer.
It’s just like, make skellis, go do stuff for me, but with all the animal stuff in this, I’m like, “Yes.” JOSH STEIN: It should to be a lot of fun.
JENN PANATTONI: I’m excited.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: First time I rolled a barb, because I did more delicate but powerful.
I was like, I can just sit here and bash, and I’m not dying.
This is amazing.
JOSH STEIN: Me kill minion.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Exactly.
JOSH STEIN: The Barbarian.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Life is just much simpler when you just hope smash.
Yeah, exactly.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Let’s get into the news.
Few new things to talk about.
I want to talk about Epic Mickey Rebrushed.
I don’t know if you’ve played Epic Mickey when it first came out.
The rebrushed version, as you can tell, is a remaster.
It’s out now.
In a world ravaged by a mysterious villain and terrifying goons, the fate of its citizens rest in the hands of one.
Epic Mickey is back.
You can unleash the power of the brush on Xbox series X|S and Xbox One.
This is a full remake, actually.
It sends Mickey Mouse on an epic journey through the wasteland, a realm of forgotten Disney characters.
As Mickey, you dive into a fantastic world armed with paint and thinner.
You shape your adventure and the fate of this alternate world.
You can use some new skills, dash, ground pound, printing, and it has unforgettable story.
It’s cool to see Mickey in a different way.
One of my favorite things about this game is this really features Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, who was a precursor to Mickey Mouse, like just going back in the ’20s.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah.
Wow.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: When they wanted to make this game, I think Disney didn’t have the right to Oswald.
It was owned by Universal.
You can look this up.
They traded to get the rights for Oswald.
They traded Al Michaels, who was the host of Monday Night Football at the time, to Universal NBC to get Oswald.
That’s how that all worked out.
JOSH STEIN: You tell people how you got traded.
JENN PANATTONI: Right.
That’s wild.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I know.
Al Michaels is like I’m IP.
JENN PANATTONI: Yeah, I remember when this happened because I think I was at Anaheim, Disneyland, and they had a big celebration for Oswald, and they were selling a bunch of Oswalds.
Exactly, I remember this.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Going back deep into the volume.
This was almost 10 years ago at this point.
It’s crazy, a bit of interesting lore, hell.
They got a win-win situation.
JOSH STEIN: I wonder what other characters are in there, actually, then.
No spoilers.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: You’ll have to find that out.
JOSH STEIN: I find out.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Through Epic Mickey Rebrushed.
It’s out now.
Let’s talk about Game Pass.
We always love talking about Game Pass here.
We’ve got new games that are coming both into Ultimate and into Standard.
Let’s talk out first.
MLB The Show 24 is now in, which is a great game.
We’re getting into the playoffs.
I’m very excited.
Philly’s first round by.
I’m just like, right back here for now.
Sorry, I didn’t want to get too far from the mic.
Literally, the audio got [inaudible].
No relaxing, not on my clock.
Yeah, so MLB The Show, it’s the best baseball game.
There you have it.
Now available in Game Pass Standard here, as is Open Roads, which was previously available on Ultimate and through PC.
New games for everyone.
I’m really, really excited for Inscription.
Inscription is now out, or I should say it is coming soon.
I jumped ahead.
October 10.
This is a game that I’ve heard a lot about.
It was on a lot of game of the year lists as it was out on PC, I want to see it previously.
It’s a inky black card-based odyssey that blends the deck-building, roguelike, escape room-style puzzles and psychological horror into card game.
I don’t know.
As someone who has really enjoyed Balato this year, I’m like, you know what, maybe I do like card games now.
It’s on mobile.
Balato is now on mobile, and I’m like trying to preserve a little bit of my free time.
Yeah.
But I’ve heard Inscription is really, really cool, and I’m glad that I’m going to be able to check that out on October 10th.
Going back to also available now, Sifu.
Sifu is really cool.
It came out on Xbox a little bit ago, but now if you hadn’t had a chance to play it out on Game Pass Ultimate, PC Game Pass, and Game Pass Standard.
It’s a realistic third-person kung fu combat game.
What’s really cool about this is you’re playing this character, Pak Mei.
But every time you die, you get older.
At the beginning, that makes you stronger, but then over time, you will become more elderly.
It’s just a really interesting take on it.
I guess you could call it a roguelike.
JOSH STEIN: Bites are very cinematic, which is really cool.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Exactly.
Also, Mad Streets out on Game Pass Ultimate, PC Game Pass, and Standard.
It’s a game that makes you crack a smile while punching someone in the face.
It’s a physics-based party game meshed with a brawler that feels like an evolution to the genre, with a deeper system that allows skilled players to direct their blows for face-crunching, K.O.
animations that wouldn’t look out of place in an MMA game.
[inaudible]
It’s a fun part of the game.
I didn’t just write that myself, of course.
JENN PANATTONI: Crack a smile all while punching someone in the face.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: There’s a lot.
JOSH STEIN: You mean therapy?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah.
When you think about something like Gang Beast or Human: Fall Flat or something like that.
Those are fun games where you’re bashing your friends and it’s not.
There’s no malice.
JENN PANATTONI: Your face hurts the next day, and your ribs hurt because you’ve been laughing so hard.
It’s good time.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Exactly.
If you missed out on TGS, a bunch of new games hit last week onto Game Pass, all you need is help from our friends at Q-Games.
Very cool to get a pixel junk game out on Xbox for the first time.
Also, this is a really fun-looking co-op game where you can really play, like it hits all ages, but also just looks like just really fun.
Legend of Mana and Trials of Mana are also now available on Cloud Console and PC through Game Pass Ultimate or PC Game Pass.
We went from zero mana games a month and a half ago to three mana games on Xbox, which is really cool.
Then we love Katamari REROLL+ Royal Reverie.
Katamari, we do love it.
It’s great.
It’s one of the most original games of all time.
JOSH STEIN: Yeah.
I want to commend our regional teams.
That was a great TGS.
That’s probably the biggest, strongest TGS I’ve seen us put on, and they keep getting better and better every year, so I have to really shout it.
I know they worked really hard.
Some of the meeting, seeing them really prep, really stress, nail everything and production team put on a great live show at 3:00 AM in the morning, nonetheless, Pacific Time.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Not for them.
It was a good time.
JOSH STEIN: But it was really great to see just the presence there grow and then pair that with our Game Pass and game announcements.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Five shadow drops, I want to see.
That’s if you count the Final Fantasy Pixel Remasters as one game.
Really, they’re five games.
I just math myself.
Let’s just say quite a few shadow drops.
JENN PANATTONI: Many games.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Finally, we want to give a shout-out to the Xbox Ambassador community.
Earlier this month, we celebrated their legacy in fostering positivity on the platform over the last 13 years and sharing how the program will be evolving.
After this final season, the values of this amazing program will be integrated across our player engagement avenues.
There’s going to be new, more global way really for players to share insights, receive really access to games and features directly through Xbox research.
We’ve also launched the Xbox Community pledge, which takes the values of the Xbox Ambassador pledge and calls on all players to contribute to a positive experience from playing on Xbox.
It’s really exciting to see this innovation or this evolution, I should say.
I just want to extend a huge thank you to the ambassadors in general and all our players, as we look forward to elevating the spirit and impact of that program throughout our global community.
Be a good person and sign up for Insider program if you haven’t already.
It’s really part of the thing I love about working here, is being able to test things out and give my feedback before things come out, but we don’t just restrict that to people who work here.
Thousands of thousands of people get to do that, as well.
JOSH STEIN: It’s not just a friends and family thing.
I have to really say I love the Insider program.
If you were an Xbox ambassador, please sign up.
That program changed my life, working on that and meeting some of the amazing people in the community.
It was really good to see them take best parts of that and make it part of the DNA of other programs at Xbox, including the community pledge.
Then that feedback does not stop.
The Insider program is a great place to go in and whether it’s testing new games, testing out the new OS build for Dashboard or something new for mobile or PC.
Those teams are always testing.
I get to sit in those calls just to see what’s coming up to announce to the community and like the next monthly update, and it’s really valuable to see them hash out the feedback in those calls and, like, you know what, this needs to sit in the oven a little bit longer.
We got some really good feedback.
Let’s bake on it a little bit longer.
Let’s do some adjustments, see how they react to that.
Then see that evolution of the next month.
They all react well.
They’re like, great, now it’s ready for full GA with general public, basically, and let’s roll it out to everyone.
Seeing that work actually in hand is really cool.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: They have their own blog over as part of Xbox Wires.
If you go to news.xbox.com and look for Xbox Insider Program, which is right there at the top, you can get in there, you can learn how to join.
There’s an app that is part of your console that you can download.
You can take surveys.
There’s just tons of stuff and [inaudible].
Exactly.
One last thing.
I’m trying to make a segue here, which is like something that gets better every year is EA Sports FC 25.
I’ve been playing a bunch of this.
I’m a big soccer fan.
One of the experiences throughout that is Rush, which is this really cool mode that gets to the action really quickly.
I can tell you about it, or I can just talk to Danillo Abreu, who joined in from EA in Canada.
The good folks up in BC who make that game.
Let’s talk to him now.
As the weather is taking a turn for the cooler, many people here in the US are knee-deep in the NFL or college football.
But for those who know, it’s actually the time of season where you wake up early every weekend to watch the Premier League or the Bundesliga, or maybe take time out in the middle of the week for the Champions League, or maybe you’re gearing up for the MLS playoffs here in the US and Canada.
Along with that, in between watching matches, millions of us are playing them ourselves.
EA Sports FC is year in, year out, one of the biggest games in the world.
It’s out now, and I’m excited to talk about what’s new for FC 25 with Danillo Abreu, game designer on EA Sports FC 25.
Welcome to the show, sir.
Can you tell us a little bit about what it means to be a game designer for such a huge game, what you work on, and just so we know who we’re dealing with?
What’s your favorite football club?
DANILLO ABREU: I will try not to dodge that question, the last one.
But yeah, so thrilled to be here to be talking about Rush in FC 25.
I’m Danillo Abreu, as you mentioned, and I’m a Gameplay Designer on the EFC 25 team.
What my team does, basically, we handle everything that happens inside those four lines inside the pitch.
Everything in life, passing, dribbling, the rules of the game.
Everything that happens inside gameplay, we handle it.
I’ve been honored to be leading the design of Rush for this year.
My first team will be Santos, and I could spend half an hour explaining why, but I’ll just say two names here, and that’s enough.
Neymar and Pele, enough said, but I do sympathize a lot with Arsenal.
It’s a common thing that South Americans will often choose a team, an European team.
And mine just happens to be Arsenal because of, 20 years ago, The Invincibles.
At that time, I was growing up.
I was learning to love football, and there was no other team around that was as magical as that one.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: That is true.
The reason I’m wearing this kit today, so no doubt, 25 seasons of watching Arsenal, and a couple of them have actually been pretty good.
But let’s talk about Rush.
Let’s talk about you.
I’ve been enjoying it since early access, and this is a new way to play football.
I was thinking about it, and it actually reminds me a lot of the Arena Football League version of the beautiful game.
Like all the things you would recognize from soccer, but distilled into this high-scoring, get to the fun version.
How do you describe it?
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah, that’s it.
Our mission, our goal was to create a more social experience within FC 25.
And then we had a good look in the mirror, and we’re like, well, we already have something like that in the form of clubs.
We had Friday sessions where all of our teams, they would get together and play clubs, and you see the room will get pretty loud of people getting super excited about playing clubs.
I’m like, okay, so there’s something there.
What if we just make it more approachable, less players, so the game stage is not as complex, positionless, and one thing that we realized early on is that we needed to keep gameplay the same.
Not reinvent the wheel, keep the same formula, and if you go into a Rush match, you got to see the same passing system, the same shooting system, same goalkeeper, same everything, so it also makes it easier for players to transition in and out of that experience.
You play a match of Rush, well, now I want to play 11v11 again a little bit.
You go to that, and it’s seamless.
It is what it is.
Now, it’s just a more fast-based approach to the local player experience that we always had.
Now you’re closer to the action, you don’t have to fight over position, I want to be the finisher now.
I want to be on defense now.
Well, it’s positionless.
You’re always rotating, and you get to have a little bit of the fun all the time.
One of the things that I like to do the most in Rush is to get a nice tackle, a slides tackle, a clean one, and then I can see the build-up play turning into a goal, two or three seconds later, which is something that in the 11v11, you won’t always get that immediate gratification and rewarding sensation.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very cool.
As much as the gameplay moment to moment is the same, there are some few rule changes, I noticed, like on offside, kickoffs are different, reminds me of the XFL a little bit.
Penalties work different.
Maybe borrowing a little bit from hockey.
There’s blue cards.
You run through some of these things and where they do differ from traditional 11v11 football.
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah, there are quite a few.
I think you hit on maybe the three most glaring ones.
The kickoff one, we’re like, well, we only have one half in this game, and possession is really important, so who gets to start with the ball is really important.
We’re like, how can we solve this?
Ball in the air, all up in the air, and you fight for possession.
That was your ball.
What’s cool about it, is that the game starts at a high note already.
It’s super thrilling from the get-go, like from the first whistle.
That was something that we were really excited to try out early on, and it just stayed.
We’re sure that’s the route that we were going to go.
For penalty kicks, we wanted to try something fresh, something more interesting where everyone gets to participate, which is a recurring theme.
I’m probably going to be repeating the word teamwork here a lot because that’s what we want you emphasize in Rush.
Even in penalty kicks, you can choose to take the penalty kick by yourself, or you just wait for a teammate to come by and everyone participates.
Then blue cards, well, that’s another one that early on, we’re like, what happens if a serious foul occurs?
We’re like, no, we don’t want you eject players from the experience altogether, but we got to punish them somehow.
We looked at other sports and even other games that do similar things, and we’re like, this is like a sin ban in a way.
You get a time out for a little bit, think about what you did, but then you come back to the pitch, and then, what’s interesting about the blue cards, the dynamics that emerge out of it, as well.
One thing that we’ve been calling the blue card effect internally is when we realize that the team that has one player less actually plays better than the team that has one player more.
We think it’s just psychological.
The team becomes more close then, and the other team gets nervous, trying to make the most out of the opportunity and that advantage in that scenario.
But it’s super interesting.
This dynamic and this emergent gameplay that we didn’t expect, and we see it happening, it’s pretty rewarding.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very cool.
Very much like certain teams are just really good, power play killers, and others are ruthless on it, so it’s fun bringing that element into soccer.
I would say the look in the field is actually really cool too.
I know you’ve got a co-partnership with Nike and this Rush-specific arena, a different announcer.
It all lights up, I want to go to this arena.
I want to watch football in this arena.
DANILLO ABREU: The Nike Stadium is pretty special, isn’t it?
Early on, when they showed us the concept, we’re like, we have something really special here, and it’s just because we wanted to raise the bar a little bit about this experience and make it feel like a spectacle, not just like another match.
When you get into that stadium, that atmosphere, you’re like, so this is important.
It’s not just like any other match that is.
The stakes are low.
Stakes could be really high on this one.
Once you enter the pitch, inside, as well, it’s super interesting because we drew a little bit of inspiration from Liverpool Stadium, the Anfield, where the crowd is super close to the pitch, so you can feel the crowd.
You see the crowd’s reaction even from gameplay camera, which is super interesting, and the stadium feels alive.
I like it externally.
I like it internally, and I’m thrilled to see where else this partnership could go.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: There’s actually the seats, I want to say, where like the imaginary crowd.
Some people have their feet on the grass on the very first row.
Like you see that in the NBA a lot.
If you want to plot one of those down in Seattle, I’d be there every week.
DANILLO ABREU: Probably a little bit expensive, but yeah, we’ll look into that.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: We got lots of land just everywhere.
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah, right.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I’m going to take advantage of a bit of a cheat code because the lead designer is right here with the smaller arena, with the smaller sizes, with the different rules around offside.
Give us some tips on how to excel here in Rush versus traditional full-sided football.
DANILLO ABREU: Like I mentioned, the word of law is teamwork.
There’s no getting around it.
If you see that your team is like on defense, stay back, or if you see that the goalkeeper opened up a side of the goal, pass the ball.
It’s pretty much organizing yourself, communicating whenever possible, and just filling the gaps.
Again, this is a positionless experience, but that doesn’t mean that it should be unorganized.
You should be playing for the team, and that’s what’s going to make the difference.
The game is already out, and what we’re seeing is that some really good 11v11 players they don’t necessarily translate into amazing Rush players.
Maybe that’s because the teamwork component is missing, and I think this is really what makes a difference.
Play with their friends, communicate whenever possible, and I think you’re going to see the results start to come in.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I’ve been playing, and I’ve noticed, actually, this isn’t like you just go, I want to play the Rush mode.
Rush shows up in a bunch of different places.
Can you talk about how a player might experience it?
Obviously, there’s so many different ways to play FC 25.
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah, totally.
Again, early on, we had this prototype, we’re playing, we’re having fun, and then we’re like, we cannot confine this interesting experience to a single mode.
Can we integrate this experience into all the different modes that we have in a way that feels natural, that makes sense, and that respects the nature of each mode?
If you look at career mode, for the first time ever, you can play with your youth squad players, something that’s never been done before.
With your 14-year-olds, the 15-year-olds, and more special, even more special is that you can see them progress through the season.
They get bigger, they get taller, and the special connection that you built with those characters, those players that only exist for you, it’s pretty special, so you can actually play with them.
The sticks are higher now, where we’re talking about engaging with your youth academy.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: One last question for you, you constantly see just the interplay between real-life soccer, real-life football, and the FC series to the point where I was watching.
I live in Seattle, so I know a few of the players on the Seattle Sounders team, and on social, they’re like debating, are my ratings right?
Like, this should have been higher in speed or anything like that, and so, it’s realistic enough that these are the type of debates that people can have, both players, pundits and the players themselves.
Now that the big European seasons are about a month in, any surprises, any breakout players or teams that you find are doing better than expected?
Because I’d imagine you all will even update the game to reflect those things.
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah, that’s for sure.
I’d say looking at La Liga, all eyes or all attentions were turned to Real Madrid because of the big signings.
We had Mbappe, of course, and then you see Barcelona doing super well with Hansi Flick; you see Raphinha, scoring goals, left and right.
I don’t know.
I’m eager to see how that battle is going to pan out between Barcelona and Real Madrid.
We always thought that Real Madrid were going to take a stroll through La Liga, doesn’t seem like that.
Same thing goes for Leverkusen in the Bundesliga.
They had one of the most phenomenal seasons in the history of football last season, and now they had a pretty good start, but it seems like there will be a battle between them and Bayern Munich, something that didn’t quite happen last season, so that’s something that I’m looking forward to.
Especially in football, we’re always going to reflect what happens on the real pitches in our game, so I don’t know.
I’m excited to see people playing with the Team of the Week, Mbappe, a Team of the Week Endrick, as well.
I’m looking forward to see how his career progresses.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very good.
So much to play.
Obviously, the sun really never sets on professional football globally, and so I think that means that your work is probably never done.
Danillo, thanks again so much for joining us here, and look, I know it’s not your team that picks the soundtracks, but I do want to thank you on behalf of the rest of the team for putting in that Justice and Tame Impala song because as far as I’m concerned, if there’s a song in EAFC that I know, that means I’m not old yet.
I’m not too old, I’ll keep playing the same thing.
I’m hanging on by a thread.
DANILLO ABREU: Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Thanks so much for joining us.
We’re going to head back to the set now.
DANILLO ABREU: Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Thanks so much, Danillo Abreu, very much excited for EA Sports FC 25.
It’s out now.
It’s available, and I believe you can try out through the power of EA Play.
You get a 10-hour or so trial.
You can do that.
If you have PC Game Pass, your Game Pass Ultimate, you can try it out.
Exactly.
You’ll find that time check.
JOSH STEIN: Let’s begin and check things out.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yes.
I was going to make a different segue, which is that I’ve been playing their soccer game since the ’90s, and you know what else was really popular in the ’90s?
JOSH STEIN: What was really popular in the ’90s, Jeff?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: See-through everything.
Do you ever have Crystal Pepsi?
That was a thing.
JENN PANATTONI: It came back recently.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yeah.
It was not amazing, but [LAUGHTER]
the point is you could see through it.
Also, I had a see-through Game Boy Color, and now I have tons of see-through controllers.
Let’s talk about a couple of awesome see-through controllers that we’ve got here as part of the Ghost Cipher, and I’m banging.
They’re see-through, but they cannot pass through solid matter.
JENN PANATTONI: They cannot.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: No.
JOSH STEIN: Yes, we launched the Sky Cipher in August.
People loved it.
They said, “Great.
I want this in elite.” The team was like, “Funny, you say that,” because basically they were like, “How about six awesome new colors that come out in the elites?” I think looking at social, I think the two favorite colors leading right now are green and purple.
Purple is giving people that Game Boy classic.
I had one of those.
I think you probably one of those, and then, of course, translucent green, like a homage some of our DNA back when we had the translucent green OG Xbox, and so it’s been great to see them add it.
The clear controller, Ghost Cipher, went into retail, so that was on pre-order.
It’s out now, so anyone can go grab that.
Then, like you said, six shells, six new colors, you can add, then if you want to spice it up with a little Chroma D-pad, you can take a look into that, and it comes with a pair of paddles that match it.
I think the Chroma adds a nice little nostalgic element to the translucent, and it really pops, unlike the pink, the purple, and the green.
They chose some really great colors.
JENN PANATTONI: Right here with the teal.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t get chrome.
JOSH STEIN: I love when they monochrome it all out, sometimes in the build.
Mine’s blue and clear, but I like that yours.
This is like my kind of build.
It is like the blue on blue, so I designed a purple one, so I have purple on purple as a homage to my OG Game Boy Color.
JENN PANATTONI: This looks nice.
I get to take this home, right?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: They asked me to bring it back, is that really a fireball offense?
Surely, they wouldn’t.
JENN PANATTONI: It lost.
[LAUGHTER]
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Literally, this is the last two we have in the office.
Please give them back.
JOSH STEIN: Yeah, I think these are the last.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I’ve got a bad reputation of [LAUGHTER], yeah, we’ll put it on the show, and then, I never did give that back to you, did I?
JENN PANATTONI: It’ll have just gotten lost, and no one will know.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Yes.
That’s it.
No one’s recording this.
JENN PANATTONI: This isn’t recording?
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very good.
These are available now, right?
JOSH STEIN: Yes, the XDL units, Xbox Design Lab Elite, you can go build those now, and then the Ghost Cipher, like full retail unit that comes with like the back shell in the front shell, you can also go and grab that now.
It was out on pre-order, and it’s out now.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Very good.
JOSH STEIN: We still have the translucent blue cipher if you want to mix it up.
I like that they do both the elite and core program, so it depends on which one you want to grab.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: I like you can see all the things, but it still retains the grips.
I need the grips.
JOSH STEIN: Yeah.
JENN PANATTONI: Same.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: That’s just me.
I need the grips.
That actually wraps up our time.
I want to talk about next week real quickly.
Actually, one of the things I didn’t talk about that I was playing is I’m enjoying the Metaphor: ReFantazio demo.
We’re going to be speaking with that team from Atlas next week.
I’m really excited about that.
It’ll be a good in-depth conversation on really one of the most exciting RPGs in a really long time for the makers of Persona.
But anything you want to wrap up with, Jenn?
JENN PANATTONI: No.
Honestly, thank you for having me.
I’m excited to see that controller that I’m definitely not going to go home with.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Definitely not.
It’s really, it’s your Frostpunk aesthetic.
JENN PANATTONI: Yes, it is.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Mr.
Stein?
JOSH STEIN: Make sure you give us a follow on all Xbox channels over on Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp, TikTok, LinkedIn, if you want a little bit of a professional sauce.
Give us a follow, share the content, and keep giving us feedback to help us make a better Xbox for you.
JEFF RUBENSTEIN: Josh, Jenn, thank you so much for joining us.
Make sure you follow all those channels, and like I said, we’ll be back here next week with a special Metaphor: ReFantazio episode.
We’ll see you then.
