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  • Did Elon Musk Win the Election for Trump?

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    Donald Trump [Archival audio]: Frankly, this was, I believe, the greatest political movement of all time. There’s never been anything like this in this country, and maybe beyond.

    Leah Feiger: The win was decisive, almost shockingly so. Many of us are still figuring out the big factor that pushed the country hard to the right. Here at WIRED, however, we have a theory, and we’ve been reporting on him for a while: Elon Musk.

    Donald Trump [Archival audio]: Who did you say?

    [Archival audio]: Elon.

    Donald Trump [Archival audio]: Oh, let me tell you. We have a new star. A star is born, Elon.

    Leah Feiger: This is WIRED Politics Lab, a show about how tech is changing politics. I’m Leah Feiger, the senior politics editor at WIRED. As we discussed on the show a few weeks ago, Elon jumped into the political conversation this cycle in a big way, endorsing Trump, joining him at rallies, and putting a lot of money behind him, over a hundred million dollars. Did his influence make the difference for Trump, and what happens now? Joining me today to talk about all of this and more is WIRED’s director of science, politics, and security, Tim Marchman. Hey, Tim.

    Tim Marchman: Hey, glad to be here.

    Leah Feiger: Glad you’re here too. Also joining, is WIRED senior reporter Vittoria Elliott. Hey, Tori.

    Vittoria Elliott: Hey, Leah.

    Leah Feiger: Quick check-in guys. How are you both doing?

    Vittoria Elliott: I don’t know what day it is.

    Tim Marchman: I really need to just go to the park and read a Victorian novel, or play shuffleboard or something.

    Vittoria Elliott: That sounds great. Honestly, I wish someone would prescribe me some seaside time, like they used to.

    Leah Feiger: Instead of seaside time and instead of reading a Victorian novel in the park, we should just talk about Elon Musk. Right? That also sounds incredibly fun to me.

    Tim Marchman: I think we’re going to be talking about Elon Musk for the next four years. I, for one, can’t wait.

    Leah Feiger: Let’s get into it. So, the big question to me, and I think to probably all of us, is did Elon Musk make this happen? Is he responsible, or at least quite responsible, very responsible, largely responsible for this Trump victory? What do you think?

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  • Stacey Abrams Has Some Ideas on How to Stop Elon Musk and the Far Right in Georgia

    Stacey Abrams Has Some Ideas on How to Stop Elon Musk and the Far Right in Georgia

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    Leah Feiger: I absolutely hear that. Obviously though, this is a different environment, right? We have experienced a fracturing of media and social platforms that we have never seen before.

    Stacey Abrams: Absolutely.

    Leah Feiger: In many ways, to me, it feels like tech platforms have abdicated responsibility in this election cycle.

    Stacey Abrams: Yes, absolutely.

    Leah Feiger: Elon Musk doesn’t just own X. He’s actually been using it to spread election conspiracies, and letting other major influencers do the same. How does the Harris campaign deal with that, and what do you make of the role that Musk has played in this election?

    Stacey Abrams: So, the podcast I do called Assembly Required, we had Esosa Osa on to talk about disinformation. The reason this matters is that it’s not just Elon Musk. It’s that Meta and other platforms have weakened their filters. So, Elon Musk has been aggressively and intentionally a disinformation factory.

    Leah Feiger: Machine, truly incredible to watch.

    Stacey Abrams: He is becoming his own industry of life. So, he deserves his own specific place in ignominy.

    Leah Feiger: Fair.

    Stacey Abrams: Let’s put it that way. We should be angry. We should be concerned, but we should also be aware that while he is the loudest version of this terrible dark star, he’s not alone. So, to your point, our obligation is to hold all of these tech platforms accountable. You should not be permitted to weaken the protection that you owe the people. If you are going to hold yourself out as a purveyor of information, you are obligated to ensure that that information at least meet the basic smell test. Unfortunately, we have seen multiple tech platforms abdicate that responsibility. So, while I am more than happy to castigate and hold Elon Musk particularly accountable for taking terrible and making it worse, we also have the responsibility on the other side of this election to evaluate everyone who was willing to take this Wild West situation, and make it worse.

    Leah Feiger: I mean, absolutely. Yesterday, we came out with a big article about how militias are organizing on Facebook, and you know what? Facebook is actually auto generating pages for militias. It’s messy to say the least. Obviously with the Musk thing, he comes with the benefit of just an absolute ton of cash. That has been also wild to watch about his cash for registration sweepstakes. There’s just a lot happening there that I am constantly wondering, “Is the Harris campaign doing enough to counteract, and can they?”

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  • Meet the Far-Right Constitutional Sheriffs Ready to Assert Control if Trump Loses

    Meet the Far-Right Constitutional Sheriffs Ready to Assert Control if Trump Loses

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    Tim Marchman: This is rooted as you write in white supremacist beliefs. Can you unpack that a little bit?

    David Gilbert: It is, and you can trace it back from the late-1960, early-1970s to a movement called Posse Comitatus, which was founded some say by a guy called William Potter Gale. He was at the time a minister in this militant anti-Semitic white nationalist quasi-religion, kind of known as Christian Identity. He believed that the sheriffs were these protectors of the citizens and that they had the power to call up militias and that they should be enshrined in law as the ultimate power law enforcement anywhere in the country. We’ve seen across the years that these far-right or Constitutional Sheriffs, no matter what they’ve done in terms of the extreme actions they’ve taken, if they have a base of supporters in their locality or in their county who believe in what they’re doing, they will be voted back into office for decades at a time.

    Tim Marchman: The mandate of the public is pretty powerful, but some of these sheriffs are citing a higher source of authority. They say their power derives from God, which seems pretty unconstitutional given the separation of church and state in America. How do they respond to that?

    David Gilbert: Well, they respond by saying that the separation of church and state is not something that really exists. They say that, that again is a misreading of the Constitution, and the entire Constitutional Sheriff’s movement is deeply infused with Christian nationalist beliefs and ideology. Most of the Constitutional Sheriffs who I’ve spoken to over the last six months or so are eager for the US to return to being a nation rooted in Christianity, where Christianity is at the center of all aspects of life, be that law enforcement or education or government or culture. They believe that in that society because they believe they got their power from God, that they will be the most powerful law enforcement individuals across the country.

    Tim Marchman: Under this constitutional order as they understand it, is there a role for constitutional governors or constitutional mayors, or are these powers unique to sheriffs?

    David Gilbert: They seem to believe that these powers are unique to sheriffs. In all the time I’ve been covering this, I’ve never heard any of them speak about other figures, whether in government or law enforcement that would hold similar powers to a sheriff. Again, that comes back to the idea that this is somehow enshrined in the Constitution. As we said, it’s not, but in their belief system, in their ideology, they can trace the sheriff. It’s one of the oldest law enforcement offices in the world. It goes right back to the UK where the sheriff did the bidding of the local magistrates and collected taxes and stuff like that. It’s obviously been exported from England to the US and it has persisted since the beginning of the US nation. They believe that, that is key to giving them the power that no one else in the US has because at a local level, they’re there to protect their citizens, and the citizens are the ones who elect them, and therefore, that is their duty. Even if other positions like a governor is elected by the people, they don’t seem to believe that, that position should have the similar kind of constitutional protections.

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  • Will Elon Musk Tip the Election for Trump?

    Will Elon Musk Tip the Election for Trump?

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    Leah Feiger: So Trump brings Musk out, he calls him a truly incredible guy. Musk literally jumps into the air on stage, in what was captured in honestly one of the cringiest photos that I’ve seen online maybe this year, and then Musk talks to the crowd for a couple of minutes. What does he say? Talk us through that.

    Vittoria Elliott: It’s such a turn from 2020 when there’s all this suspicion around mail-in ballots, around early voting. Now suddenly we’re hearing, “Make sure you’re registered to vote, vote early, do this, do that, get everyone you know to vote.” There’s this really, really big get out the vote push, and that is what Elon was on. When the assassin’s bullet grazed Trump’s ear, he got up and said, “Fight, fight, fight.” And Musk very consciously said, “Vote, vote, vote.” And everyone in the crowd immediately saw that parallel that-

    Leah Feiger: I mean, he drew it. Yeah.

    Vittoria Elliott: People were very into that, and one of the things that Musk said that got a lot of reaction from the people that I was directly around was he said, “The Second-“

    Elon Musk [Archival audio]: The Second Amendment is there to ensure that we have the First Amendment.

    Vittoria Elliott: He was there to whip up the troops, to really speak to the true believers, to push, push, push for voter turnout, because I think my sense with the way that the MAGA movement is right now is that they understand what the Biden team understood in 2020 where it’s not about converting new people, it’s about getting the people that are already on your team mobilized. He said, “This election is the most important election of our lifetime.” Quite normal. I think I’ve heard every politician say that for the last 20 years, but then he says, “You have to bring everyone you know to vote. If they don’t, this will be-“

    Elon Musk [Archival audio]: This will be the last election. That’s my prediction. Nothing’s more important, nothing’s more important.

    Vittoria Elliott: I even had some people repeat that to me on the way out of the rally, and that is also something he has been very public about saying on X, even before coming to this rally. A lot of times when Musk is speaking publicly or when he’s interviewed, he will tamp back some of the rhetoric that he spreads online. If we think back to the Don Lemon interview, where he was confronted about the great replacement theory, he hedged a little bit on that.

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  • VP Debate Night: Vance Sanitized Trumpism, Walz Called Himself a Knucklehead

    VP Debate Night: Vance Sanitized Trumpism, Walz Called Himself a Knucklehead

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    Leah Feiger: I think it adds to it. It’s this, it’s stolen valor. Even when you’re actually parsing through the specifics of it, is it that terrible?

    Tim Marchman: I don’t think he came off great. I don’t think it’s …

    Leah Feiger: Yeah, he came off not well in the fact that he called himself a knucklehead. That was tough to see. That was definitely a JD Vance smirking moment. I just couldn’t stop watching him that entire time.

    Tim Marchman: Yeah, and it’s something you’d really … If the guy was gilding the lily a bit, everyone gilds the lily a bit, at least at this level of politics, and you really should have a comeback for that. I think there was a little bit of confusion. I was in the region during that period, I wasn’t in Hong Kong at the time of those specific protests. I wasn’t in Tiananmen Square when the man was standing down the tank, but I was there at that time. It was a time of great change, as we all remember, the Berlin Wall. There’s a way to do that. He seemed completely flat-footed, which was just bizarre.

    Leah Feiger: Obviously, we should point out, and perhaps our lovely moderators could have as well, that Trump is a serial liar, and compared to his many, many, many whoppers over the years, I could have seen a funny turning point of Walz going, “This is nothing. Let’s talk about some greatest hits.” For a campaign that is so focused on the meme-able moment, on the pivot to social, on the pivot to TikTok, they did not manage to grab a lot out of this. Of course, we’re not even talking about Springfield. JD Vance was one of the big, big instigators of the whole Haitian immigrants, Haitian illegal immigrants are eating your friendly neighborhood pets. They’re eating your dogs and cats. When Springfield came up in the debate, this was such an opportunity for Walz to go in, and he did. He did mention that some of this rhetoric had led to schools having to have a lot of extra security, or having to have all these additional drills, but he didn’t go after Vance specifically. He barely went after Trump specifically.

    Makena Kelly: This would’ve been a turn too for Walz to be like, “OK, let’s talk about lying and fibbing. You’re the person who literally went on the news last week or whatever week it was, saying that we can embellish these stories to really get everything across that’s happening to rural America right now because of immigration.” That would’ve been an awesome pivot point, and of course, it just didn’t happen.

    Tim Marchman: He also had the opportunity to say that what Vance was saying was still just flatly false. Vance, as he did throughout the debate, basically took this rhetorical position, kind of distancing himself from Trump, or treating Trump as like a crazy uncle who, “Eh, we all know what he says, but let’s not worry about that. He says a lot of stuff.” He backed off the claims that Haitian illegal immigrants are kidnapping people’s pets and barbecuing them, but he presented it as his attempt to bring attention to the serious problem of immigrants flooding into Springfield and overwhelming the hospital systems, overwhelming the school systems, something of which there’s literally no evidence. People have looked at mortality rates, they’ve looked at 911 waiting times, all these different metrics. There’s no evidence that the migrants are overwhelming the hospital system. The school system, they need more ESL teachers, they need things like that. Those are legitimate issues to bring up. There’s a very easy way to bring up those issues without getting into blood libel. Walz missed the opportunity to go on offense with that when this whole issue came up, affirmatively defending these people and saying, “These are people who are here legally, who are in this town because the town has jobs, and they don’t have people to do them, period.” He was very forceful in making the point that Trump and Vance’s rhetoric has led to bomb threats and all sorts of horrible stuff, but it was, again, to me, an example of him just kind of ceding the premise a little bit. This is not a problem. Really, this is not a problem. He allowed it, I thought, to be presented as a huge existential problem for the country in a way that was just pretty ridiculous.

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  • Laura Loomer: The ‘Free Spirit’ Whispering in Trump’s Ear

    Laura Loomer: The ‘Free Spirit’ Whispering in Trump’s Ear

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    Leah Feiger: And it also just plays into the entire media is out to get us.

    David Gilbert: Absolutely, yeah.

    Leah Feiger: This is the end, yeah. So, that’s a fun one.

    David Gilbert: It reinforces the idea, which Trump has said that, “Oh, ABC are going to give Kamala the questions.”

    Leah Feiger: Right, right, right, right. Yeah, no, that was his big conspiracy going into it. All right. That’s a bummer, but a good one. Tim, what do you got for us?

    Tim Marchman: Mine is Loomer’s expressed belief that the policy aim of the Democratic Party is to murder Jews.

    Leah Feiger: Love this. Say more.

    Tim Marchman: So, in an interview she gave earlier this year, she said, “If you’re a Democrat and you’re voting as a Jew or a Democrat, then you kind of deserve what’s coming your way.” These are like the Jews during the times of the Holocaust who assisted the Nazis because they thought that they were going to be the last to go. They’re like the Kapo Jews of the Holocaust who’ve helped shovel Jews inside the gas chambers. That’s what these people are.

    Leah Feiger: Lovely.

    Tim Marchman: As lovely as that is, it’s hard to engage with conspiracy theories this way, but you almost want to take a step back and ask what steps elected Democrats have taken towards this apparent goal—

    Leah Feiger: Sure.

    Tim Marchman: … of destroying Jews in America and elsewhere. I’m not seeing a lot of evidence of it, but this is a driving and fundamental theme for her that I find a little irreconcilable with her avowed white nationalism, but she is the one who is directly making these comparisons. And I think that qualifies as a conspiracy because, to my eye at least, the Democratic Party has kept it pretty well hidden.

    Leah Feiger: Both of those were sad and terrible, and I pronounce no one a winner this week. I refuse to reward either of these with a win.

    David Gilbert: That’s a good resolution.

    Tim Marchman: I want to push back. I want to push back against that by saying that I was specifically prohibited from crafting a bespoke MK-ULTRA-Laura Loomer conspiracy for the purposes of winning best Conspiracy of the Week.

    Leah Feiger: Also, I told you that you could not share specific conspiracies about Laura Loomer that would get us sued, so …

    Tim Marchman: Well, if you’re going to leave us to fight with our hands tied behind our backs.

    Leah Feiger: Thank you both so much for joining us this week.

    David Gilbert: Thank you.

    Tim Marchman: Thanks for having me.

    Leah Feiger: Thanks for listening to WIRED Politics Lab. If you like what you heard today, make sure to follow the show and give us five stars. We also have a newsletter, which Makena Kelly writes each week. The link to the newsletter and the WIRED reporting we mentioned today are in the show notes. If you’d like to get in touch with us with any questions, comments, or show suggestions, please, please write to us at politicslab@WIRED.com. That’s politicslab@WIRED.com. We’re so excited to hear from you. WIRED Politics Lab is produced by Jake Harper. Pran Bandi is our studio engineer. Amar Lal mixed this episode. Steven Valentino is our executive producer. Chris Bannon is Global Head of Audio at Condé Nast. And I’m your host, Leah Feiger. We’ll be back in your feeds with a new episode next week.

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  • No Dogs or Cats Were Harmed In the Making of This Post-Debate Podcast

    No Dogs or Cats Were Harmed In the Making of This Post-Debate Podcast

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    Leah Feiger: Right. Obviously, the one that I think at least caught our attention the most in the WIRED politics Slack room as we were watching in disbelief was the conspiracy and lie that Haitian immigrants were illegally crossing the border into the United States and camping out and stealing and eating people’s dogs, cats, and pets.

    Donald Trump [Archival audio]: They’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats, they’re eating the pets of the people that live there.

    Leah Feiger: This is not happening. This is in no way happening, but this was a talking point that has been bubbling up for the last 36 hours. JD Vance has been adding fuel to the fire. He has been tweeting about it. Congress. This has been all over. Trump got into it in the debate. That was wild, you guys. That was so wild. It felt like a fever dream.

    Makena Kelly: The difference between how it played out online ahead of the debate and how it was received when Trump actually said it, was wild. Because when you look at online, when people were discussing all this conspiracy about the cats and eating them and et cetera, all that, for the most part, it was just like a joke. It seemed like it was mostly silly amongst a lot of these creators that were posting about it. Then just to see it taken so seriously and literally on the debate stage with Trump, I think was the change of perspective that made everything like, what the heck is he doing?

    Tim Marchman: Yeah, I have a conspiracy theory about this, which is that Trump was briefed to allude to it, but stay away from it. Because very early in his first statement, he mentioned Springfield, Ohio, very pointedly where the conspiracy theory says this is happening. He looked very smug and self-satisfied as he said that. My base, the people who are on truth social—

    Leah Feiger: They’ll know.

    Tim Marchman: … they know what’s going on in Springfield. But he didn’t say anything. Then he actually started talking about it after Harris had baited him by mentioning the people left his rallies early, that they were interminable and boring and repetitive. He started visibly getting pretty angry and he just blurts out, he’s talking about how horrible the economy is and how terrible post-apocalyptic America is, and he says, “In Springfield,” he can’t bring himself to say it. He says in Springfield, and then he just says, “They’re eating cats. They’re eating dogs.” It’s so lurid and ridiculous. Then the thing he does after that is, he almost meekly says, “The people on the television said their dog was taken for food.” Just the almost childlike tone of it. It was really this incredible moment. I really got the impression that he knew he wasn’t supposed to be talking about this, I guess.

    Leah Feiger: I think you’re right. To me, it didn’t actually come off as childish though. It came off as the grandparent or elderly relative that you’re like, Grandma turn off Fox News. That’s not true. That’s not correct. He felt very old in that moment. He was rambling, he was uncertain. I guess my question here though is, with all these conspiracies he brought up again, like he did in the June debate with Biden, that the Democrats support abortion after nine months, which is unequivocally not true. There were just honestly so many to even get into and list. My question is, does it matter? The internet was taking a lap, the liberal internet was thrilled. Pundits on CNN and MSNBC were like, “This was wild. Harris trounced him, et cetera, et cetera.” I don’t know. This race is not actually about who is more eloquent or who can tell the truth better or more, and that feels a little bit naive at this point. It’s actually about who can mobilize their base. The question is going to be if Trump successfully mobilized his base with his litany of conspiracies tonight. Was he convincing?

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  • Influencers Take Over the DNC

    Influencers Take Over the DNC

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    The Democratic National Convention organizers really rolled out the blue carpet for influencers this year. Today on the show, WIRED senior reporter Makena Kelly joins from Chicago to talk about the Democrats’ strategy of favoring creators over journalists, and whether it will help them win votes. Plus, behind the scenes at the influencer after-parties.

    Leah Feiger is @LeahFeiger. Makena Kelly is @kellymakena.  Write to us at politicslab@WIRED.com. Be sure to subscribe to the WIRED Politics Lab newsletter here.

    Mentioned this week:
    The DNC Is Officially the Influencer Convention, by Makena Kelly
    A Visual Guide to the Influencers Shaping the 2024 Election, by Makena Kelly

    How to Listen

    You can always listen to this week’s podcast through the audio player on this page, but if you want to subscribe for free to get every episode, here’s how:

    If you’re on an iPhone or iPad, open the app called Podcasts, or just tap this link. You can also download an app like Overcast or Pocket Casts, and search for WIRED Politics Lab. We’re on Spotify too.

    Transcript

    Note: This is an automated transcript, which may contain errors.

    Leah Feiger: This is WIRED Politics Lab, a show about how tech is changing politics. I’m Leah Feiger, the senior politics editor at WIRED. Today on the show, the 2024 Democratic National Convention is almost over. Earlier this week, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama rallied Democrats around their new candidate.

    Joe Biden [Archival audio]: Are you ready to vote for freedom?

    Audience: Yeah!

    Joe Biden [Archival audio]: Are you ready to vote for democracy and for America?

    Audience: Yeah!

    Joe Biden [Archival audio] And tonight, Kamala Harris will close out the event. But unlike in conventions past, every night has also featured influencers. People like content creator and abortion rights activists, Deja Foxx.

    Deja Foxx [Archival audio]: People my age are making big decisions about our lives and we deserve a president who has our back.

    Leah Feiger: And Carlos Eduardo Espina, a TikTokker and immigration rights activist.

    Carlos Eduardo Espina [Archival audio]: To be pro-immigrant is to be pro-America.

    Leah Feiger: Two hundred other content creators are attending and posting, all invited by the DNC, to connect with young voters, and they hope help Kamala Harris beat Donald Trump. Joining me from Chicago to talk about what’s going on at the DNC is WIRED senior reporter Makena Kelly. Hey, Makena, how’s it going?

    Makena Kelly: I’m a little tired, but it’s day three here at the convention, and there’s been a lot going on. A lot going on.

    Leah Feiger: In addition to all of the DNC events during the day, you’re also going to all of the parties at night. How are they?

    Makena Kelly: Yeah, I was out until 2:00 am last night. The last thing on my schedule was from 10:00 to 2:00 am, and it was a party called Hotties for Harris, and it was thrown, it wasn’t …

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  • How QAnon Destroys American Families

    How QAnon Destroys American Families

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    Leah Feiger: Mm-hmm.

    David Gilbert: The calls to arms, you know? They’re being very explicit about what is going to happen should Trump lose in November. And I think more attention needs to be paid to it, because it’s constant, it’s every day, and it could spell major trouble. And maybe not in one single coordinated effort like we saw on January 6th, but in lots of different locations around the country on maybe a smaller scale, but no less frightening.

    Leah Feiger: David and Jess, thanks so much for coming on. Jesselyn Cook is a journalist and author of The Quiet Damage: Qanon and the Destruction of the American Family, which is out now. We’ll be right back with Conspiracy of the Week. Welcome back to Conspiracy of the Week, where you guys bring me your favorite conspiracies that you’ve come across recently, and I pick my favorite. The wilder, the better. Jess, as our guest, please go first.

    Jesselyn Cook: So you know about flat earthers, but have you heard of hollow earthers?

    Leah Feiger: Wait. Already, what? No.

    Jesselyn Cook: Yeah. Tragically in my book, there is a seven-year-old, a second-grader who gets really deeply into Qanon, and his journey, a lot of it was through TikTok. And so I learned a lot about a lot of conspiracy theories on TikTok through his story.

    Leah Feiger: Mm-hmm.

    Jesselyn Cook: The Hollow Earth Theory, this idea of an inner earth civilization, it’s been around for a long time, kind of through various ancient myths and legends, but it has made a resurgence on TikTok. A lot of young people you will see, if you look this up on TikTok, are talking-

    Leah Feiger: I’m going to in like, truly, 10 minutes. Yeah.

    Jesselyn Cook: So the idea is that deep below the Earth’s surface, there is a secret society, a very advanced society that lives down there somehow surviving without sunlight, without oxygen, without all the things we need to live. Some versions of the conspiracy theory are that they are aliens, and others are just there’s this society that’s going to emerge one day and kill us all. So not quite a fun conspiracy theory, but …

    Leah Feiger: Oh, they never are. Sometimes. That’s a weird one. That’s like a real Hunger Games meets Stuart Little/Ratatouille vibes in a more globalist centric way. What do people think that the hollow earthers are doing? Are they controlling us or are they just existing?

    Jesselyn Cook: They’re just existing. Some people who are not happy on regular Earth have gone down there apparently…

    Leah Feiger: Sure.

    Jesselyn Cook: …To just make a new life for themselves. And it’s funny, but then what’s less funny is when you click on the comments on these videos and you’re expecting people to be like, “This is dumb,” but there are a lot of kids in there saying, “NASA stands for Never A Straight Answer,” and just digging their heels in and citing Bible verses that supposedly prove the existence of this deeper earth. Study after study is showing that even though we assume digital natives, young people are able to parse real from fake online, that is not the case. Most of the time, these studies are showing that it’s really a grim outlook. And so it’s an interesting rabbit hole to go down. Check it out if you want on TikTok. But it’s pretty wild.

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  • Silicon Valley Is Coconuts for Kamala Harris

    Silicon Valley Is Coconuts for Kamala Harris

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    Leah Feiger: I hate all of these terms, just so you guys know. I hate them so much.

    Lauren Goode: We don’t ever have to say it again, Leah, but yes, welcome to Silicon Valley, and I think they see what’s happening right now, scrutiny on Big Tech (and little tech to an extent), some of the regulatory proposals and actual regulatory actions that have come down on new and emerging technologies, they see that as all counterproductive to their end goals. And so if they can get in there and get into the ear of the most influential politician, the leader of the free world—who by the way, Trump has said that he would dismantle a lot of the government and regulatory bodies that we’re all used to at this point, that would benefit them in some way. Honestly, it’s a lot of self-interest.

    Makena Kelly: Yeah, and a lot of … It’s not even just the candidates, right? It’s also who they will appoint in really important positions that these companies will interface with, whether that’s the DHS and immigration policy with H-1B visas, or of course the biggest villain in the government right now is Lina Kahn for these folks too.

    Leah Feiger: Sure.

    Lauren Goode: Except for JD Vance apparently, who in the past has made statements of support for Lina Kahn, but he changes his mind, we think.

    Leah Feiger: Like every five minutes, basically. We have so much more to get into, and I have no doubt that we’re going to hopefully have you guys on again to keep talking about Silicon Valley and its influence on this race. But Lauren and Makena, thank you so, so much for joining us for now. We’ll talk to you later for Conspiracy of the Week.

    Makena Kelly: Thanks.

    Lauren Goode: Sounds great. I can’t wait.

    Leah Feiger: After the break, David Gilbert on how Republicans are calling Biden’s exit from the race a “coup.”

    [break]

    Leah Feiger: Welcome back to WIRED Politics Lab. So Biden announced his withdrawal from the 2024 election at around 2 o’clock on Sunday. Immediately the far right and mainstream Republican lawmakers jumped on the news to call it a “coup.” Joining me from Cork, Ireland, to talk about the right-wing reactions he’s been watching online is WIRED reporter David Gilbert. David, hi. How’s it going?

    David Gilbert: It’s going good. Good to be here.

    Leah Feiger: David, you started seeing this coup language far before Biden actually dropped out. When did you first pick up on it?

    David Gilbert: I suppose it was probably maybe a week, two weeks before the announcement on Sunday. It had been building for a while, this idea that Trump was kind of set up to campaign against Biden and wanted to campaign against him because of how successful he had been in the debate or how poor Biden had been, I guess. So in the weeks between the debate and when Biden dropped out, we’d seen this idea from the right that the efforts being made on the Democratic side to effectively push Biden out were part of a so-called coup. I think it was last week in The Babylon Bee, this satirical right-wing online website, had a headline saying, “Democratic Party leaders vote to save democracy by overruling voters staging coup.” Dan Bongino, the right-wing commentator, he was talking about a coup on Twitter last week. So it was definitely building in the days and weeks leading up to Biden’s departure.

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  • The Kamala Harris Conspiracies Are Here

    The Kamala Harris Conspiracies Are Here

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    Leah Feiger: Well, yeah, no, in your reporting, you shared posts of people calling her the DEI candidate. That’s what’s going around, and it’s not just Trump in the public sphere sharing this. These were conspiracies that were legitimately being repeated on Fox and all over the place.

    David Gilbert: After those fringe platforms, we saw people like Laura Loomer, who would typically be called fringe normally.

    Leah Feiger: Yeah, a very fun pipeline from the Republican nominee in Florida for Congressional district to becoming an American far right activist.

    David Gilbert: But she’s become kind of more mainstream now because she’s got links to the Trump platform. She…

    Leah Feiger: Oh, my God, the idea of calling Laura Loomer mainstream actually gives me full body chills.

    David Gilbert: I know, but I think we have to because she’s just integral now to the discourse online in the Republican Party that, from my point of view, at least she’s mainstream GOP now, rather than some fringe character we can ignore.

    Leah Feiger: Yeah, I mean…

    David Gilbert: But yeah, you were saying about Fox News, it very quickly moved from private Telegram channels, to fringe message boards, to X, to, as you say, Fox News.

    Leah Feiger: Mm-hmm.

    David Gilbert: I think it was on a show called Outnumbered, which I’d never heard of before, but it was a host called Julie Banderas, and she was talking about how her daughters speak more eloquently than Harris, before adding that, I think she said, “I’m sorry, just being a minority does not make you fit for president.” I think a day later, New York Post posted an op-ed saying, “America may soon be subjected to the country’s first DEI president.”

    Leah Feiger: Right.

    David Gilbert: So this is a narrative that is being spread overnight, practically, from very fringe, pro-Trump, extremist message boards to the front pages of newspapers and on mainstream TV.

    Leah Feiger: Is there any content moderation at all? I mean, in your reporting, and we should talk about this, these posts were not small. This really, as you said, went from fringe to mainstream pretty fast and millions and millions of views.

    David Gilbert: Yeah, so as I said earlier, the platforms like Gab, and Telegram, none of the racist or misogynistic content is taken down or was taken down. In fact, that’s why people go there because they can post that stuff.

    Leah Feiger: Right.

    David Gilbert: On X, there is kind of this veneer that it is a mainstream platform, in that there is some sort of rules, and there are some sort of content moderation in place. But as you said, some of the posts around this, and one of the conspiracies that really took hold on X more than anywhere else was that she’s ineligible to be president because both her parents were not born in the US. Now, this has been debunked so many times.

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  • Far-Right Militias Are Back

    Far-Right Militias Are Back

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    Leah Feiger: To be fair, a militia of 2,500 across the United States that’s carefully organized on Telegram and promotes the use of armed weapons as a response to anything from natural disasters to fake claims of election fraud is still really concerning. I’m concerned.

    David Gilbert: Absolutely, and I think that gets lost. When you write articles like these, a lot of people kind of say, “Oh, you shouldn’t be platforming these people. They’re making this up. They’re bluffing.”

    Leah Feiger: Definitely.

    David Gilbert: But there are people in these Telegram groups who want to join armed militias, and it’s part of a bigger resurgence in far-right paramilitary activity and discussions that me and other experts are seeing online in recent weeks and months, and that’s really disturbing.

    Leah Feiger: We’re going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we’re going to talk about how all of these kinds of militias are starting to go mainstream again and what this means for 2024.Welcome back to WIRED Politics Lab. David, you were talking about how militias are having a resurgence right now. What exactly do you mean by that?

    David Gilbert: What I mean is that Lang is, and his network of militias that they’ve launched is just one part of a broader movement that both I, other journalists and researchers who are monitoring the space have seen in recent weeks, and it’s all linked to the 2024 election, that people need to be ready to respond if something happens and, of course, what that if is is if Donald Trump loses.

    Leah Feiger: So what does Lang say will happen in the event that Donald Trump loses?

    David Gilbert: Well, Lang talks about civil unrest, and that if Trump loses, that people will automatically be outraged. Do you believe that the outcome was accurate that Joe Biden did win the election?

    Jake Lang: No, I think it’s pretty much a statistical outlier or an impossibility.

    David Gilbert: When I spoke to him, he reeled off a list of the most widely known election conspiracies from 2020.

    Jake Lang: Rigged, stolen, manipulated, scam, whatever you want to call it. It was not the will of the people.

    David Gilbert: When he looks forward to 2024, he is predicting that if Trump loses, there will be a major catastrophe and there will be a lot of people angry, and that’s where his militias is going to be ready to step in.

    Leah Feiger: Is this real? I mean, people say a lot of things online. What kind of connections are you and other researchers drawing between this moment in 2020?

    David Gilbert: The network of people who are organizing this is much greater and much stronger because they have had four years to create these nationwide networks of connections and groups, whether it’s online or in-person. We saw ahead of 2020 that there were some researchers and some journalists who were raising flags, not a lot, but they were raising flags and saying, “This is worrying.” The intelligence services were also noticing that this was happening, but no one took any action. I think that this time around, we’re about five months out from the election, I think that the signals are much stronger. In recent weeks, I have definitely noticed a serious uptick in people who are discussing things like militias, things like sheriffs’ posses, that people need to be ready for 2024, this idea that something is going to happen on November 5th if the result doesn’t go the way people think it will go. So I think that that’s the parallels that you see between 2020 is that people ignored what was there in front of them. In 2020, you could kind of see why that happened because something like January 6th had never happened before. So what is happening this time is much bigger, but people at the moment, at least, don’t seem to be paying attention.

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  • AI Chatbots Are Running for Office Now

    AI Chatbots Are Running for Office Now

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    Victor Miller [Archival audio clip]: She’s asking what policies are most important to you, VIC?

    VIC [Archival audio clip]: The most important policies to me focus on transparency, economic development, and innovation.

    Leah Feiger: That is so bizarre. I got to ask, could VIC be exposed to other sources of information other than these public records? Say, email from a conspiracy theorist who wants VIC to do something not so good with elections that would not represent its constituents.

    Vittoria Elliott: Great question. I asked Miller, “Hey, you’ve built this bot on top of ChatGPT. We know that sometimes there’s problems or biases in the data that go into training these models. Are you concerned that VIC could imbibe some of those biases or there could be problems?” He said, “No, I trust OpenAI. I believe in their product.” You’re right. He decided, because of what’s important to him as someone who cares a lot about Cheyenne’s governance, to feed this bot hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of pages of what are called supporting documents. The kind of documents that people will submit in a city council meeting. Whether that’s a complaint, or an email, or a zoning issue, or whatever. He fed that to VIC. But you’re right, these chatbots can be trained on other material. He said that he actually asked VIC, “What if someone tries to spam you? What if someone tries to trick you? Send you emails and stuff.” VIC apparently responded to him saying, “I’m pretty confident I could differentiate what’s an actual constituent concern and what’s spam, or what’s not real.”

    Leah Feiger: I guess I would just say to that, one-third of Americans right now don’t believe that President Joe Biden legitimately won the 2020 election, but I’m so glad this robot is very, very confident in its ability to decipher dis and misinformation here.

    Vittoria Elliott: Totally.

    Leah Feiger: That was VIC in Wyoming. Tell us a little more about AI Steve in the UK. How is it different from VIC?

    Vittoria Elliott: For one thing, AI Steve is actually the candidate.

    Leah Feiger: What do you mean actually the candidate?

    Vittoria Elliott: He’s on the ballot.

    Leah Feiger: Oh, okay. There’s no meat puppet?

    Vittoria Elliott: There is a meat puppet, and that Steve Endicott. He’s a Brighton based business man. He describes himself as being the person who will attend Parliament, do the human things.

    Leah Feiger: Sure.

    Vittoria Elliott: But people, when they go to vote next month in the UK, they actually have the ability not to vote for Steve Endicott, but to vote for AI Steve.

    Leah Feiger: That’s incredible. Oh my God. How does that work?

    Vittoria Elliott: The way they described it to me, Steve Endicott and Jeremy Smith, who is the developer of AI Steve, the way they’ve described this is as a big catchment for community feedback. On the backend, what happens is people can talk to or call into AI Steve, can have apparently 10,000 simultaneous conversations at any given point. They can say, “I want to know when trash collection is going to be different.” Or, “I’m upset about fiscal policy,” or whatever. Those conversations get transcribed by the AI and distilled into these are the policy positions that constituents care about. But to make sure that people aren’t spamming it basically and trying to trick it, what they’re going to do is they’re going to have what they call validators. Brighton is about an hour outside of London, a lot of people commute between the two cities. They’ve said, “What we want to do is we want to have people who are on their commute, we’re going to ask them to sign up to these emails to be validators.” They’ll go through and say, “These are the policies that people say that are important to AI Steve. Do you, regular person who’s actually commuting, find that to actually be valuable to you?” Anything that gets more than 50% interest, or approval, or whatever, that’s the stuff that real Steve, who will be in Parliament, will be voting on. They have this second level of checks to make sure that whatever people are saying as feedback to the AI is checked by real humans. They’re trying to make it a little harder for them to game the system.

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  • It’s the AI Election Year

    It’s the AI Election Year

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    Leah Feiger: Sometimes you are able to link it back to specific companies-

    Vittoria Elliott: Yes.

    Leah Feiger: That are doing the generative AI itself.

    Vittoria Elliott: Yeah, totally. For instance, there was a deep fake made of the former Prime Minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan, whose been in jail under corruption charges. His party was disqualified for running in the general election earlier this year. He was able to make campaign speeches using generative AI.

    Leah Feiger: Wild.

    Vittoria Elliott: To do that, they used ElevenLabs, which is the same company that was used for the fake Joe Biden robocall earlier this year. Sometimes we do know the companies involved, a lot of times we don’t.

    Leah Feiger: How have these companies said that they’re going to approach elections this year?

    Vittoria Elliott: Well, more legitimate companies like Midjourney and ChatGPT, OpenAI, Google, et cetera, they’ve said, “We’re going to put guardrails on. We’re not going to allow for generating political images.” ChatGPT, which is text based, they’ve said, “It’s not cool to use our tool to generate political stuff for campaigns,” or whatever, “You can’t run a chatbot on top of our interface,” basically. But they’re not doing great an enforcing it. There was a report from the Center For Countering Digital Hate that we covered in March, where they went into all these images generators and they were just like, “Give us an image of Trump doing this, give us an image of Biden doing this.” And it did it a lot of the time. For ChatGPT, Dean Phillips, who was a congressman who was briefly running for President.

    Leah Feiger: Formerly running for President, Congressman Dean Phillips.

    Vittoria Elliott: Built a chatbot called Dean.bot on top of OpenAI’s ChatGPT interface and it didn’t get taken down until the press was like, “Hey, isn’t this against your policies?”

    Leah Feiger: I remember that very well. Something that I also remember from that moment is that Dean Phillips actually had a lot of Silicon Valley backers. It feels a little bit hazy. It’s like, “Yes, you shouldn’t use Dean.bot, but also we still kind of love and support you.” There’s a weird back-and-forth there. The stuff that Dean, for example, was saying about generative AI and legislating against it, Sam Altman was into it.

    Vittoria Elliott: Yeah. That’s just in the US. For instance, in Indonesia, there was a company that built an app called Pemilu for the Indonesian elections. The founder of that app claimed that they had built something on top of ChatGPT that allowed them to write campaign speeches in a bunch of local languages.

    Leah Feiger: Wow.

    Vittoria Elliott: That was pulling in information to allow them to tailor messages to particular demographics, whether that was young people, women, whatever.

    Leah Feiger: Well, talk about effective when you have a country with so many languages.

    Vittoria Elliott: Yeah. It’s dispersed across of islands, different needs.

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  • Twitter Is Dead, Long Live the Portal

    Twitter Is Dead, Long Live the Portal

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    Leah Feiger: I can’t wait to hear about all of that. But let’s start with Elon Musk. If I was to trace back the end of Twitter, it would obviously start with him. David, why did Musk buy Twitter? Take us back to that time.

    David Gilbert: I have a feeling he was thinking about buying Twitter for a while. He had been one of the main characters on Twitter for years and had always been very vocal in his opinions and the kind of content that he posted there. But from 2020 onwards, once Donald Trump got kicked off the platform and there was a major shutdown on content in relation to Covid-19 and the vaccines, he became increasingly outraged at what he saw as this over-censorious thing where he felt that people of a certain viewpoint were being silenced on the platform. Of course, that was something that not only Musk had, but a lot of Conservatives felt as well, that they were being silenced. It was bubbling along for a while, the idea that he was going to buy it. He was being urged on by a lot of his supporters, and he has a lot of supporters, to say that he should buy it, he should take it over and turn it into their utopian social media platform. In early 2022, he did. He decided to table a bid of $44 billion. Very quickly, he decided then to turn around and say, “No, actually I don’t want to do that.”

    [Archival audio clip]: Then you changed your mind again and decided to buy it. Did you do that-

    Elon Musk [Archival audio clip]: Well, I kind of had to.

    [Archival audio clip]: Right. Did you do that because you thought that a court would make you do that?

    Elon Musk [Archival audio clip]: Yes.

    [Archival audio clip]: Right.

    Elon Musk [Archival audio clip]: Yes, that is the reason.

    Leah Feiger: I always forget that. I always forget that and I love it so much.

    David Gilbert: He doesn’t really remind people of it too much. It finally went through and Musk took over, and very quickly made changes. I’m not sure, at that point, Makena, do you think that he really had a vision in mind for what his version of Twitter was going to look like?

    Makena Kelly: No, I don’t think it was a vision more than it was a vengeance.

    David Gilbert: Yeah.

    Makena Kelly: If you look at that time, it’s around the same time that regulators, even just the news, there’s more skepticism about what it is that Elon Musk is doing. He’s not this messiah character who’s going to carry us into some beautiful progressive world where we all drive autonomous vehicles and have solar panels on our houses. People were starting to be a lot more critical of him. Twitter is a space where you have news makers, taste makers, very important people on this platform who are using it every day and that’s where you can really drive a lot of conversation. I feel like Elon Musk, even if it wasn’t front-of-mind, I think he at least knew subconsciously that having some kind of power over this platform would be helpful to him and his brand.

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  • How Twitch Streamers Could Shape the 2024 Elections

    How Twitch Streamers Could Shape the 2024 Elections

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    Leah Feiger: Yes, the royals are globalist, conspiracy is well trodden, but always good.

    Makena Kelly: Yeah. Haunted portrait.

    Leah Feiger: Haunted portrait, OK, that’s actually a really good one. I didn’t even think about that one as related to conspiracies.

    Hasan Piker: Yeah, it wasn’t bad at all.

    Leah Feiger: I like that one.

    Hasan Piker: OK. I didn’t realize it was supposed to be a current one. I mean, I got immediately, I’m in New York. The two things I thought about, especially being in One World Trade Center, was what happened on Tower Seven? How did Tower Seven fall? A question that is on my mind at all times. I’m not like a “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams” kind of guy, but it’s kind of odd that Tower Seven fell. Who knows?

    Leah Feiger: You’re edging into 9/11 truther territory.

    Hasan Piker: That is the one, I’m not like, we did it deliberately and then so that we could do global war or whatever. I don’t go to that length.

    Leah Feiger: Yikes.

    Hasan Piker: Or that it was like a fake or staged, or that we did it. We blew up the towers. For our listeners. Hasan does not believe that. Yeah, I don’t believe that, but Tower Seven, kind of weird.

    Makena Kelly: Allegedly. Very

    Leah Feiger: Really Allegedly. Really, really hardcore allegedly.

    Hasan Piker: Tower Seven, I don’t know what happened. I will go out and investigate later.

    Makena Kelly: Oh, good, now report your findings back.

    Hasan Piker: When I leave.

    Leah Feiger: I feel like we’ve gotten a little glimpse into the conspiracy corner of your mind here. I’m really sorry. I’m going to have to give the win this week to McKenna.

    Makena Kelly: Wow.

    Hasan Piker: At least this was a relevant one. It’s a new one. Mine is an old one. An old but gold.

    Leah Feiger: Hasan, thank you so much for joining us today.

    Hasan Piker: Thank you for having me.

    Makena Kelly: Yeah, this was great. This was great.

    Hasan Piker: Thank you for having me. Yeah, this was great.

    Makena Kelly: Where can all of our listeners find you besides Twitch?

    Hasan Piker: Yeah. I’m live on Twitch every day at Twitch.tv/HasanAbi from 11:00 am Pacific time, all the way to like 8:00 pm, seven days a week, and beyond that, I’m Hasan D. Piker on TikTok and on Instagram and Hasan the Hun on Twitter.

    Leah Feiger: Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us, Hasan.

    Hasan Piker: Thank you for having me.

    Leah Feiger: Thanks for listening to WIRED Politics Lab. If you like what you heard today, make sure to follow the show and rate it on your podcast app of choice. We also have a newsletter which Makena writes each week. The link to the newsletter and the WIRED reporting we mentioned today are in the show notes. If you’d like to get in touch with us with any questions, comments, or show suggestions, please write to politicslab@wired.com. That’s politicslab@wired.com. We’re so excited to hear from you. WIRED Politics Lab is produced by Jake Harper. Jake Lummus is our studio engineer, Amar Lal mixed this episode, Stephanie Karyuki is our executive producer. Jordan Bell is our executive producer of development, and Chris Bannon is the global head of audio at Condé Nast, and I’m your host, Leah Feiger. We’ll be back in your feeds with a new episode next week. Thanks for listening.

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  • The Conspiracies Swarming Campus Protests

    The Conspiracies Swarming Campus Protests

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    Leah Feiger: Yeah, no, it’s not good over there.

    David Gilbert: There’s a huge amount of content there that they could have worked with. But no, they’ve gone with blame the liberals, blame woke, blame the communists. And my favorite conspiracy was one guy just commented, “Defund white ladies.”

    Leah Feiger: Oh my God, that’s incredible. I too blame all of that. Amazing. OK, that was a really good one. Makena, hit me with yours.

    Makena Kelly: Oh my gosh. OK, so I have not been as glued in to conspiracies this week because I’ve been paying a lot of attention to the Kendrick Lamar–Drake, beef.

    Leah Feiger: Oh, of course. Good. Yes.

    Makena Kelly: And I am so incredibly invested. It has been crazy to wake up and have a new diss track that is just absolutely bonkers the past couple of days.

    Leah Feiger: Amazing.

    Makena Kelly: And so the one I guess that I can say I’ve been paying attention to is that this beef is some kind of globalist plot to distract people.

    Leah Feiger: Stop.

    Makena Kelly: To distract people from all of the, of course, terrible and awful things happening around the world.

    Leah Feiger: Where is that conspiracy coming from?

    Makena Kelly: Just about everywhere. I’m seeing it on Twitter, I’m seeing it on TikTok. I’m seeing it a lot of places. And I do think, honestly, if I had to say that a conspiracy was actually occurring from this, it was a conspiracy to bring Macklemore back because now he’s back with a song, which is something I was not expecting at all.

    Leah Feiger: Incredible. OK. Another really good one.

    Vittoria Elliot: It’s beef and circuses.

    Leah Feiger: I know. OK, Tori, hit us with what you’ve got.

    Vittoria Elliot: So my favorite thing is one of the joys of the TikTok algorithm, is that it’s non-chronological, so it’ll just give you things when it feels you’re ready for them. And so this isn’t—

    Leah Feiger: Also as a statement.

    Vittoria Elliot: This one is actually from the fall, but TikTok decided now was my time. So now it’s everybody’s time. Which is in the fall, there was this woman who went viral and created a lot of follow on stitches because she was like, “Well, if dinosaurs are real, wouldn’t there bones be everywhere?”

    Leah Feiger: Oh my God.

    Vittoria Elliot: And so my favorite conspiracy this week from TikTok, because now is my time in the sun, is that dinosaurs were not real because their bones are not everywhere.

    Leah Feiger: Oh, that’s a good one. Is she getting a lot of engagement on this?

    Vittoria Elliot: She got so much engagement. Well, so it came to me via a stitch of, I think, a creator that I had recently followed. So then it was like, here’s their viral thing. Right?

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