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  • Donald Trump Is on the Wrong Side of the Religious Right

    Donald Trump Is on the Wrong Side of the Religious Right

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    The sanctuary buzzed as Mike Pence climbed into the elevated pulpit, standing 15 feet above the pews, a Celtic cross over his left shoulder. The former vice president had spoken here, at Hillsdale College, the private Christian school tucked into the knolls of southern Michigan, on several previous occasions. But this was his first time inside Christ Chapel, the magnificent, recently erected campus cathedral inspired by the St. Martin-in-the-Fields parish of England. The space offers a spiritual refuge for young people trying to find their way in the world. On this day in early March, however, it was a political proving ground, a place of testing for an older man who knows what he believes but, like the students, is unsure of exactly where he’s headed.

    “I came today to Christ Chapel simply to tell all of you that, even when it doesn’t look like it, be confident that God is still working,” Pence told the Hillsdale audience. “In your life, and in mine, and in the life of this nation.”

    It only stands to reason that a man who felt God’s hand on his selection to serve alongside Donald Trump—the Lord working in mysterious ways and all—now feels called to help America heal from Trump’s presidency. It’s why Pence titled his memoir, which describes his split with Trump over the January 6 insurrection, So Help Me God. It’s why, as he travels the country preparing a presidential bid, he speaks to themes of redemption and reconciliation. It’s why he has spent the early days of the invisible primary courting evangelical Christian activists. And it’s why, for one of the first major speeches of his unofficial 2024 campaign, he came to Hillsdale, offering repeated references to scripture while speaking about the role of religion in public life.

    Piety aside, raw political calculation was at work. Trump’s relationship with the evangelical movement—once seemingly shatterproof, then shaky after his violent departure from the White House—is now in pieces, thanks to his social-media tirade last fall blaming pro-lifers for the Republicans’ lackluster midterm performance. Because of his intimate, longtime ties to the religious right, Pence understands the extent of the damage. He is close personal friends with the organizational leaders who have fumed about it; he knows that the former president has refused to make any sort of peace offering to the anti-abortion community and is now effectively estranged from its most influential leaders.

    According to people who have spoken with Pence, he believes that this erosion of support among evangelicals represents Trump’s greatest vulnerability in the upcoming primary—and his own greatest opportunity to make a play for the GOP nomination.

    But he isn’t the only one.

    Although Pence possesses singular insights into the insular world of social-conservative politics, numerous other Republicans are aware of Trump’s emerging weakness and are preparing to make a play for conservative Christian voters. Some of these efforts will be more sincere—more rooted in a shared belief system—than others. What unites them is a common recognition that, for the first time since he secured the GOP nomination in 2016, Trump has a serious problem with a crucial bloc of his coalition.

    The scale of his trouble is difficult to overstate. In my recent conversations with some two dozen evangelical leaders—many of whom asked not to be named, all of whom backed Trump in 2016, throughout his presidency, and again in 2020—not a single one would commit to supporting him in the 2024 Republican primary. And this was all before the speculation of his potential arrest on charges related to paying hush-money to his porn-star paramour back in 2016.

    “I think people want to move on. They want to look to the future; they want someone to cast a vision,” said Tony Perkins, the president of the Family Research Council, who spoke at Trump’s nominating convention in 2016 and offered counsel throughout his presidency.

    At this time eight years ago, Perkins was heading up a secretive operation that sought to rally evangelical support around a single candidate. One by one, all the GOP presidential aspirants met privately with Perkins and his group of Christian influencers for an audition, a process by which Trump made initial contact with some prominent leaders of the religious right. Perkins probably won’t lead a similar effort this time around—“It was a lot of work,” he told me—but he and his allies have begun meeting with Republican contenders to gauge the direction of their campaigns. His message has been simple: Some of Trump’s most reliable supporters are now up for grabs, but they won’t be won over with the half measures of the pre-Trump era.

    “Oddly enough, it was Donald Trump of all people who raised the expectations of evangelical voters. They know they can win now,” Perkins said. “They want that same level of fight.”

    It’s one of the defining political statistics of the current political era: Trump carried 81 percent of the white evangelical vote in 2016, according to exit polling, and performed similarly in 2020. But the real measure of his grip on this demographic was seen during his four years in office: Even amid dramatic dips in his popularity and approval rating, white evangelicals were consistently Trump’s most loyal supporters, sticking by him at rates that far exceeded those of other parts of his political coalition. Because Trump secured signature victories for conservative Christians—most notably, appointing the three Supreme Court justices who, last year, helped overturn Roe v. Wade—there was reason to expect that loyalty to carry over into his run for the presidency in 2024.

    And then Trump sabotaged himself. Desperate to dodge culpability for the Republican Party’s poor performance in the November midterm elections, Trump blamed the “abortion issue.” He suggested that moderate voters had been spooked by some of the party’s restrictive proposals, while pro-lifers, after half a century of intense political engagement, had grown complacent following the Dobbs ruling. This scapegoating didn’t go over well with social-conservative leaders. For many of them, the transaction they had entered into with Trump in 2016—their support in exchange for his policies—was validated by the fall of Roe. Yet now the former president was distancing himself from the anti-abortion movement while refusing to accept responsibility for promoting bad candidates who lost winnable races. (Trump’s campaign declined to comment for this story.)

    It felt like betrayal. Trump’s evangelical allies had stood dutifully behind him for four years, excusing all manner of transgressions and refusing countless opportunities to cast him off. Some had even convinced themselves that he had become a believer—if not an actual believer in Christ, despite those prayer-circle photo ops in the Oval Office, then a believer in the anti-abortion cause after previously having described himself as “very pro-choice.” Now the illusion was gone. In text messages, emails, and conference calls, some of the country’s most active social conservatives began expressing a willingness to support an alternative to Trump in 2024.

    “A lot of people were very put off by those comments … It made people wonder if in some way he’d gone back to some of the sentiments he had long before becoming a Republican candidate,” said Scott Walker, the former Wisconsin governor, who runs the Young America’s Foundation and sits on the board of an anti-abortion group. Walker, himself an evangelical and the son of a pastor, added, “I think it opened the door for a lot of them to consider other candidates.”

    The most offensive part of Trump’s commentary was his ignorance of the new, post-Roe reality of Republican politics. Publicly and privately, he spoke of abortion like an item struck from his to-do list, believing the issue was effectively resolved by the Supreme Court’s ruling. Meanwhile, conservatives were preparing for a new and complicated phase of the fight, and Trump was nowhere to be found. He didn’t even bother with damage control following his November outburst, anti-abortion leaders said, because he didn’t understand how fundamentally out of step he was with his erstwhile allies.

    “He thinks it will go away, but it won’t,” Marjorie Dannenfelser, the president of the Susan B. Anthony List, an anti-abortion group, told me. “That’s not me lacking in gratitude for how we got here, because I know how we got here. But that part is done. Thank you. Now what?”

    Before long, evangelical leaders were publicly airing their long-held private complaints about Trump. Mike Evans, an original member of Trump’s evangelical advisory board, told The Washington Post that Trump “used us to win the White House” and then turned Christians into cult members “glorifying Donald Trump like he was an idol.” David Lane, a veteran evangelical organizer whose email blasts reach many thousands of pastors and church leaders, wrote that Trump’s “vision of making America as a nation great again has been put on the sidelines, while the mission and the message are now subordinate to personal grievances and self-importance.” Addressing a group of Christian lawmakers after the election, James Robison, a well-known televangelist who also advised Trump, compared him to a “little elementary schoolchild.” Everett Piper, the former president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, reacted to the midterms by writing in The Washington Times, “The take-home of this past week is simple: Donald Trump has to go. If he’s our nominee in 2024, we will get destroyed.”

    Perkins said that he’s still in touch with Trump and wouldn’t rule out backing his primary campaign in 2024. (Like everyone else I spoke with, Perkins said he won’t hesitate to support Trump if he wins the nomination.) He’s also a longtime friend to Pence, and told me he has been in recent communication with the former vice president. In speaking of the two men, Perkins described the same dilemma I heard from other social-conservative leaders.

    “Donald Trump came onto the playground, found the bully that had been pushing evangelicals around, and he punched them. That’s what endeared us to him,” Perkins explained. “But the challenge is, he went a little too far. He had too much of an edge … What we’re looking for, quite frankly, is a cross between Mike Pence and Donald Trump.”

    Who fits that description? Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has been blasting out scripture-laden fundraising emails while aggressively courting evangelical leaders, making the case that his competence—and proud, publicly declared Christian beliefs—would make him the ultimate advocate for the religious right. Tim Scott, who has daydreamed about quitting the U.S. Senate to attend seminary, built the soft launch of his campaign around a “Faith in America” tour and is speaking to hundreds of pastors this week on a private “National Faith Briefing” call. Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who is known less for her devoutness than her opportunism, invited the televangelist John Hagee to deliver the invocation at her campaign announcement last month.

    Trump’s campaign is banking on these candidates, plus Pence, fragmenting the hard-core evangelical vote in the Iowa caucuses, while he cleans up with the rest of the conservative base.

    There is another Republican who could crash that scenario. And yet, that candidate—the one who might best embody the mix that Perkins spoke of—is the one making the least effort to court evangelicals.

    In January, at the National Pro-Life Summit in Washington, D.C., Florida Governor Ron DeSantis won a 2024 presidential straw poll in dominant fashion: 54 percent to Trump’s 19 percent, with every other Republican stuck in single digits. This seemed to portend a new day in the conservative movement: Having had several months to process the midterm results, the thousands of activists who came to D.C. for the annual March for Life were clearly signaling not just their desire to move on from Trump, but also their preference for the young governor who had just won reelection by 1.5 million votes in the country’s biggest battleground state.

    There was some surprise in early March when the group Students for Life of America—which had organized the D.C. conference in January—met in Naples, Florida, for its Post-Roe Generation Gala. The event drew activists from around the country. Pence, a longtime friend of the group, had secured the keynote speaking slot. But DeSantis was nowhere to be found. Some attendees wondered why there was no video sent by his staff, no footprint from his political operation, not even a tweet from the governor acknowledging the event in his own backyard.

    Kristan Hawkins, the Students for Life president, cautioned against reading anything into this, explaining that her group had not formally invited DeSantis, instead reserving the spotlight for Pence. At the same time, she complained that DeSantis has had zero engagement with her or her organization, “not even a back-channel relationship.” For all of DeSantis’s culture warring with the left—over education and wokeism and drag shows—Hawkins argued that he has largely ignored the abortion issue.

    “So many people are astounded when I tell them that Florida has one of the highest abortion rates in the country. It’s the only Republican-controlled state in the top 10,” Hawkins told me. “Folks on social media are like, ‘You’re wrong! Florida has DeSantis!’”

    She sighed. “Checking the box, yes. When asked, he’ll affirm ‘pro-life.’ But leading the charge in Tallahassee? We haven’t seen it.”

    This squared with what I’ve heard from many other evangelical leaders—in terms of both the policy approach and the personal dealings. “He doesn’t have any relationships with me or the people in my world,” Perkins told me. “I’ve been cheering for him … but he hasn’t made any real outreach to us. That’s a weakness. I guess he sort of keeps his own counsel.” Dannenfelser was the lone organizational head who told me she’d gotten some recent face time with DeSantis, while noting that she, not the governor or his team, had requested the meeting.

    DeSantis has been made aware of these complaints, according to people who have spoken with the governor. (His political team declined to comment for this story.) John Stemberger, the president of Florida Family Policy Council, told me that DeSantis had recently attended a prayer breakfast held by the state’s leading anti-abortion activists, and that his team has “slowly but methodically” begun its outreach to leaders in early-nominating states. However sluggish his efforts to date, DeSantis now stands to benefit from the good fortune of great timing: Having signed a 15-week abortion ban into law just last year, he is now supporting a so-called heartbeat bill that Republicans are advancing through the state legislature. The timing of Florida’s implementation of this new law, which would ban abortions after six weeks, will roughly coincide with the governor’s expected presidential launch later this spring.

    “He’s got a robust agenda, and he’ll be doing robust outreach soon enough,” Stemberger said.

    Even without the outreach, DeSantis is well positioned to capture a significant share of the Christian conservative vote. Among pastors and congregants I’ve met around the country, his name-identification has soared over the past year and a half, the result of high-profile policy fights and his landslide reelection win. Last month, a Monmouth University national survey of Republican voters found DeSantis beating Trump, 51 percent to 44 percent, among self-identified evangelical voters. (Trump reclaimed the lead in a new poll released this week.) This, perhaps more than any other factor, explains the intense interest in the Florida governor among conservative leaders: Unlike Pence, Haley, Pompeo, and others, DeSantis has an obvious path to defeating Trump in the GOP primary.

    Stemberger, an outspoken Trump critic during the 2016 primary who then became an apologist during his presidency—telling fellow Christians that Trump had accomplished “unprecedentedly good things” in office—would not yet publicly commit to backing DeSantis. But he suggested that the abortion issue crystallizes an essential difference between the two men: Whereas Trump “self-destructs” by “shooting from the hip all the time,” DeSantis is disciplined, deliberate, and “highly strategic.” Part of that strategy is a speech DeSantis is scheduled to deliver next month at Liberty University.

    Tellingly, Stemberger didn’t note any difference in the personal beliefs of the two Republican front-runners. I asked him: Does faith inform DeSantis’s politics?

    “It’s interesting. I know he’s Catholic, but I’m not even sure he attends Mass regularly,” Stemberger told me. He mentioned praying over DeSantis with a group of pastors before the governor’s inauguration. “But his core is really the Constitution—the Federalist Papers, the Founding Fathers. That’s how he processes everything. He’s never going to be painted as a fundamentalist Christian … He does make references to spiritual warfare, but that’s an analogy for what he’s trying to do politically.”

    Indeed, over the past year, while traveling the country to raise money and rally the conservative base, the governor frequently invoked the Book of Ephesians. “Put on the full armor of God,” DeSantis would say, “and take a stand against the left’s schemes.”

    In bowdlerizing the words of the apostle Paul—substituting the left for the devil—DeSantis wasn’t merely counting on the biblical illiteracy of his listeners. He was playing to a partisan fervor that renders scriptural restraint irrelevant. Eventually, he did away with any nuance. Last fall, DeSantis released a now-famous advertisement, cinematic frames shot in black and white, that borrowed from the radio host Paul Harvey’s famous speech, “So God Made a Farmer.” Once again, an important change was made. “On the eighth day,” rumbled a deep voice, with DeSantis pictured standing tall before an American flag, “God looked down on his planned paradise and said: ‘I need a protector.’ So God made a fighter.”

    The video, which ran nearly two minutes, was so comically overdone—widely panned for its rampant self-glorification—that its appeal went unappreciated. Trump proved that for millions of white evangelicals who fear the loss of power, influence, and status in a rapidly secularizing nation, nothing sells like garish displays of God-ordained machismo. The humble, country-preacher appeal of former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee has lost its political allure. Hence the irony: DeSantis might have done the least to cultivate relationships in the evangelical movement, and the most to project himself as its next champion.

    Speaking to the students at Hillsdale, Pence took a decidedly different approach to quoting the apostle Paul.

    Having spoken broadly of the need for all Americans to return to treating one another with “civility and respect,” the former vice president made a specific appeal to his fellow Christians. No matter how pitched the battles over politics and policy, he said, followers of Jesus had a responsibility to attract outsiders with their conduct and their language. “Let your conversation be seasoned with salt,” Pence said, borrowing from Paul’s letter to the Colossians.

    If he does run for president, this will be what Pence is selling to evangelicals: humility instead of hubris, decency instead of denigration. The former vice president pledged to defend traditional Judeo-Christian values—even suggesting that he would re-litigate the fight over same-sex marriage, a matter settled by courts of law and public opinion. But, Pence said, unlike certain other Republicans, he would do so with a graciousness that kept the country intact. This, he reminded the audience, had always been his calling card. As far back as his days in conservative talk radio, Pence said, he was known as “Rush Limbaugh on decaf.”

    That line got some laughs. But it also underscored his limitation as a prospective candidate. After the event, while speaking with numerous guests, I heard the same thing over and over: Pence was not tough enough. They all admired him. They all thought he was an honorable man and a model Christian. But a Sunday School teacher couldn’t lead them into the battles over gender identity, school curriculum, abortion, and the like. They needed a warrior.

    “The Bushes were nice. Mitt Romney was nice. Where did that get us?” said Jerry Byrd, a churchgoing attorney who’d driven from the Detroit suburbs to hear Pence speak. “Trump is the only one who stood up for us. The Democrats are ruining this country, and being a good Christian isn’t going to stop them. Honestly, I don’t want someone ‘on decaf.’ We need the real thing.”

    After Pence sacrificed so much of himself to stand loyally behind Trump, this is how the former president has repaid him—by conditioning Christians to expect an expression of their faith so pugilistic that Pence could not hope to pass muster.

    Byrd told me he was “done with Trump” after the ex-president’s sore-loser antics and is actively shopping for another Republican to support in 2024. He likes the former vice president. He respects the principled stand he took on January 6. But Byrd said he couldn’t imagine voting for him for president. Pence was just another one of those “nice guys” whom the Democrats would walk all over.

    Unprompted, Byrd told me that DeSantis was his top choice. I asked him why.

    “He fights,” Byrd replied.

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    Tim Alberta

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  • Judge weighs whether special counsel can compel Pence’s testimony, sources say

    Judge weighs whether special counsel can compel Pence’s testimony, sources say

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    Washington — A federal judge heard arguments Thursday in a dispute between former Vice President Mike Pence, attorneys for former President Donald Trump and special counsel Jack Smith over whether Pence can be compelled to testify in Smith’s probe of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, three sources tell CBS News.

    Smith issued the subpoena for Pence’s testimony before a federal grand jury in February, and the former vice president said he would contest it, calling it “unconstitutional” and “unprecedented.” Trump’s legal team claimed executive privilege over Pence’s testimony after CBS News first reported prosecutors filed a motion asking the federal courts to compel the former vice president to testify. 

    Emmet Flood, Pence’s attorney, as well as Trump’s legal team — Evan Corcoran, Jim Trusty, Tim Parlatore and John Rowley — were spotted inside the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C., on Thursday ahead of the expected hearing. Legal teams for both Trump and Pence are working to fight the subpoena. Justice Department prosecutor Thomas Windom was also at the federal courthouse. 

    If Chief Judge James Boasberg sides with the Smith’s team, Pence has said he will appeal, and the case could eventually reach the Supreme Court. Thursday’s hearing was under seal as is required by grand jury secrecy laws. 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence Speaks At The Coolidge And American Project Conference
    Former Vice President Mike Pence gives remarks at the Calvin Coolidge Foundation’s conference at the Library of Congress on Feb. 16, 2023 in Washington, D.C. 

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    Pence has said his objection to the subpoena stems from the Constitution’s Speech or Debate Clause and the vice president’s role as president of the Senate. “My fight against the DOJ subpoena very simply is on defending the prerogatives that I had as president of the Senate to preside over the joint session of Congress on Jan. 6,” he said shortly after it was issued.

    Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed Smith as special counsel in November to oversee the Justice Department’s criminal investigations into whether any entity “unlawfully interfered” with the certification of the Electoral College on Jan. 6 and the transfer of power after the 2020 election. 

    Smith is also overseeing the criminal investigation into the alleged mishandling of documents with classified markings and whether the investigation into those documents was obstructed. 

    Trump’s attorney, Corcoran, has been ordered to testify in Smith’s classified documents investigation, according to sources familiar with the matter.  An appeals court on Wednesday ruled that he must comply with a federal grand jury subpoena to testify and provide information about his communications with Trump about the classified documents. Corcoran is set to testify before the grand jury as early as Friday and provide evidence including notes and transcripts, CBS News has confirmed

    Trump has maintained his innocence and denied all wrongdoing. 

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  • The Brutal Things Republican Voters Say About Mike Pence

    The Brutal Things Republican Voters Say About Mike Pence

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    Mike Pence is making little secret of his presidential ambitions. He’s written his book, he’s assembling his team, he’s mastered the art of the coy non-denial when somebody asks (in between trips to Iowa) if he’s running. In early Republican-primary polls, he hovers between 6 and 7 percent—not top-tier numbers, but respectable enough. He seems to think he has at least an outside shot at winning the Republican nomination.

    And yet, ask a Republican voter about the former vice president, and you’re likely to hear some of the most withering commentary you’ve ever encountered about a politician.

    In recent weeks, I was invited to sit in on a series of focus groups conducted over Zoom. Organized by the political consultant Sarah Longwell, the groups consisted of Republican voters who supported Donald Trump in both 2016 and 2020. The participants were all over the country—suburban Atlanta, rural Illinois, San Diego—and they varied in their current opinions of Trump. In some cases, Longwell filtered for voters who should be in Pence’s target demographic. One group consisted entirely of two-time Trump voters who didn’t want him to run again; another was made up of conservative evangelicals, who might presumably appreciate Pence’s roots in the religious right.

    I’ve been covering Pence’s strange Trump-era arc since 2017, when I first profiled him for The Atlantic. By some accounts, he’s wanted to be president since his college-fraternity days. I’ve always been skeptical of his chances, but now that he finally seems ready to run, I wanted to understand the appeal of his prospective candidacy. My goal was to see if I could find at least one Pence supporter.

    Instead, these were some of the quotes I jotted down.

    “I don’t care for him … He’s just middle-of-the-road to me. If there was someone halfway better, I wouldn’t vote for him.”

    “He has alienated every Republican and Democrat … It’s over. It’s retirement time.”

    “He’s only gonna get the vote from his family, and I’m not even sure if they like him.”

    “He just needs to go away.”

    It went on and on like that across four different focus groups. Of the 34 Republicans who participated, I only heard four people say they’d consider Pence for president—and two of them immediately started talking themselves out of it after indicating interest.

    Some of the reasons for Pence’s lack of support were intuitive. Hard-core Trump fans said they were alienated by Pence’s refusal to block the certification of the 2020 electoral votes, as the president was demanding. This break with Trump famously prompted chants of “Hang Mike Pence!” to echo through the U.S. Capitol on January 6.

    Although the sentiment expressed in the focus groups wasn’t quite so violent, the anger was still present. During one session, three people—all of whom had reported “very favorable” views of Trump—took turns trashing Pence for what they saw as his weakness.

    “I’m so mad at Pence that I would never vote for him,” said one man named Matt. “He would be a horrible president … I just don’t think he has the leadership qualities to be president.” (I agreed to quote the participants only by their first name.)

    “That’s exactly it,” a woman named Christine said, nodding eagerly. “He didn’t have the leadership qualities to do what everyone wanted him to do on January 6. He just doesn’t have that spine.”

    A third participant, Nicholas, chimed in: “He just chose to go along with all the other RINOs and Democrats, not to upset the applecart.”

    Meanwhile, less MAGA-inclined Republicans thought Pence was too Trumpy.

    “The only thing I liked about him was that he actually did stand up to Donald Trump,” a woman named Barbara said. “He’s too a part of Trump. I don’t think Trump has a chance, and I don’t think anybody in that inner circle has a chance either.”

    “I think he put a stain on himself for any normal Republican when he joined the Trump administration,” said another participant, Justin. “And then he put a stain on himself with any Trump Republican on January 6. So I don’t think he has a constituency anywhere. I don’t know if anyone would vote for him.”

    Longwell told me this is how Pence is talked about in every focus group she holds. What to make of that 6 to 7 percent he gets in the primary polls? “I imagine there’s a cohort of GOP voters who are not particularly engaged who don’t want Trump again, and Pence is the only other name they really know,” she speculated. That, or “they’re all from Indiana,” the state where Pence served as governor. A second Republican pollster, who requested anonymity to offer his candid view, told me, “Seven percent is a weak showing for the immediate former VP.”

    Devin O’Malley, an adviser to Pence, responded to a request for comment in an email: “Mike Pence has spent the last two years traveling to more than 30 states, campaigning for dozens of candidates, and listening to potential voters. Those interactions have been incredibly positive and encouraging, and we place more value in those experiences than of a focus group conducted by disgruntled former Republicans like Sarah Longwell and paid for by some shadow organization that The Atlantic won’t disclose.” (Longwell told me the costs for the focus groups are split between The Bulwark and the Republican Accountability Project, two anti-Trump organizations with which she is affiliated.)

    What I found most fascinating about the voters’ digs at Pence was that they were almost always preceded by passing praise of his personal character: He was a “top-of-the-line guy,” a “nice man,” a “super kind, honest, decent” person. Not only did these perceived qualities fail to make him an appealing candidate, but they were also often held against him—treated as evidence that he lacked a certain presidential mettle.

    “I don’t like how Trump was just in your face with everything, but Pence is almost too far in the other direction,” one participant named Judith said.

    Perhaps these voters were identifying a simple lack of charisma. But their casual dismissal of Pence’s wholesome, God-fearing, family-man persona is emblematic of a sea change in conservative politics—and a massive miscalculation by Pence himself.

    When Pence was added to the ticket in 2016, his chief function was to vouch for Trump with mainstream Republicans, especially conservative Christian voters. Pence’s reputation as a devout evangelical gave him a certain moral credibility when he defended Trump amid scandal and outrage. He performed this task exceptionally well. Those adoring eyes, those fawning tributes, that slightly weird fixation on the breadth of his boss’s shoulders—nobody was better at playing the loyalist. And for a certain kind of voter, Pence’s loyalty provided assurance that Trump was worthy of continued support.

    Pence had his own motives, as I reported in my profile. All of this vouching for Trump was supposed to buy Pence goodwill with the base and set him up for a future presidential run. For many in Pence’s camp, the project took on a religious dimension. “If you’re Mike Pence, and you believe what he believes, you know God had a plan,” Ralph Reed, an evangelical power broker, told me back then.

    But in creating a permission structure for voters to excuse Trump’s defective character and flouting of religious values, Pence was unwittingly making himself irrelevant. In effect, he spent four years convincing conservative Christian voters that the very thing he had to offer them didn’t matter.

    In 2011, a poll by the Public Religion Research Institute found that only 30 percent of white evangelicals believed “an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties in their public and professional life.” By 2020, that number had risen to 68 percent.

    Pence won the argument. Now he’s reaping the whirlwind.

    In one of the focus groups, a devout Christian named Angie was asked how much she factored in moral rectitude when assessing a presidential candidate. “I try to use my faith to choose someone by character, but it hasn’t always been possible,” she said. Sometimes she had to vote for a candidate who shared her politics but didn’t live her values.

    “Who comes to mind?” the moderator asked.

    “I think Trump falls into that category,” Angie conceded. “But quite honestly, the vast majority of others do as well.” She paused. “I would say Pence actually doesn’t fall into that category. I would say his character probably aligns with biblical values fairly well.”

    But Angie remained uninterested in seeing Pence in the Oval Office. If he had a record to run on, she wasn’t aware of it.

    “Anything he did got overshadowed by all the drama of these last four years,” she said, hastening to add, “Seems like a perfectly nice man.”

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    McKay Coppins

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  • Mike Pence calls potential Trump indictment ‘not what the American people want to see’ | CNN Politics

    Mike Pence calls potential Trump indictment ‘not what the American people want to see’ | CNN Politics

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    Washington
    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence balked at the idea of a potential indictment of Donald Trump, categorizing any possible prosecutorial actions as “politically charged” and “not what the American people want to see.”

    Speaking with ABC’s Jon Karl during a taped interview Saturday, Pence defended any peaceful protests that may break out at Trump’s behest, after the former president called for his supporters to “take our nation back,” while still condemning the egregious violence that the country witnessed at the US Capitol on January 6, 2021.

    “The American people have a constitutional right to peacefully assemble,” Pence said, adding, “The frustration the American people feel about what they sense is a two-tiered justice system in this country, I think is well founded. But I believe that people understand that if they give voice to this – if this occurs on Tuesday, that they need to do so peaceful and in a lawful manner.”

    Pence’s comments underscore his attempts to walk a fine line in issuing criticism and support for his former boss amid mounting expectations that he will vie for the Republican presidential nomination. Just last week, at the annual Gridiron Club dinner in Washington, DC, the former vice president issued his most blistering comments yet about Trump’s role in the attack on the Capitol.

    “President Trump was wrong. I had no right to overturn the election, and his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know that history will hold Donald Trump accountable,” Pence said at the dinner.

    Trump has repeatedly pushed back on that assertion and argued Pence was at fault because he didn’t attempt to overturn the 2020 election results.

    “The president’s wrong,” Pence told ABC. “He was wrong that day, and I had actually hoped that he would come around in time, Jon, that he would see that the cadre of legal advisers that he surrounded himself with had led him astray. But he hasn’t done so and it’s … I think it’s one of the reasons why the country just wants a fresh start.”

    Pence said the former president let him and the country down on January 6 and Trump’s continued discourse on the events is one of the reasons why the former duo has gone their “separate ways.”

    Still, Pence maintained he is “taken aback at the idea of indicting a former president of the United States.”

    Trump said Saturday that he expects to be arrested in connection with the yearslong investigation into a hush money scheme involving adult film actress Stormy Daniels and he called on his supporters to protest any such move.

    In a social media post, Trump, referring to himself, said the “leading Republican candidate and former president of the United States will be arrested on Tuesday of next week” – though he did not say why he expects to be arrested. His team said after Trump’s post that it had not received any notifications from prosecutors.

    Law enforcement has discussed how to navigate the potential indictment on a criminal charge by a New York county grand jury and the choreography around the possibility of an unprecedented arrest of a former president.

    Should he be indicted, Trump is expected to surrender and be processed and arraigned at a New York courthouse, which includes fingerprinting and mug shots, a source familiar with the matter told CNN.

    “At a time when there’s a crime wave in New York City, the fact that the Manhattan DA thinks that indicting president Trump is his top priority just tells you everything you need to know about the radical left in this country,” Pence said Saturday.

    Turning to the subpoena he received from the special counsel investigating Trump’s post-2020 election activities, Pence said he is not challenging all the elements of the subpoena and that he and his lawyers aren’t asserting executive privilege. Trump, though, has already cited executive privilege in a motion to prevent Pence from testifying before a grand jury.

    As for 2024, Pence said he is “giving serious consideration” to a White House bid, and, speaking to reporters in Des Moines, Iowa, on Saturday, he said, “No one is above the law, and I’m confident President Trump can take care of himself. My focus is going to continue to be on the issues that are affecting the American people.”

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  • Chasten Buttigieg says Pence’s dig ‘flies in the face’ of former VP’s family values | CNN Politics

    Chasten Buttigieg says Pence’s dig ‘flies in the face’ of former VP’s family values | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Chasten Buttigieg, the husband of Pete Buttigieg, criticized former Vice President Mike Pence’s recent remark that the transportation secretary had gone on “maternity leave,” telling ABC’s “The View” that the dig “flies in the face” of Pence’s family values.

    Over the weekend, Pence, delivered the line at the annual Gridiron Club dinner in Washington – an event that traditionally features politicians making jokes about notable Washington figures. Pence had said, “When Pete’s two children were born, he took two months maternity leave, where upon thousands of travelers were stranded in airports, the air traffic system shut down, airplanes nearly collided in midair. I mean, Pete Buttigieg is the only person in human history to have a child and all the rest of us get postpartum depression.”

    The White House called on Pence to apologize for what they described as a “homophobic joke” that was “offensive and inappropriate” and Chasten Buttigieg told “The View” on Thursday that he hasn’t heard from the former vice president. He also responded to Pence’s former chief of staff Marc Short, who earlier this week said the White House “should spare America the faux outrage” and that it “would be wise to focus less on placating the woke police and focus more on bank failures, planes nearly colliding in mid-air, train derailments, and the continued supply chain crisis.”

    Buttigieg told “The View,” “I think it’s not woke … to say that something is homophobic or misogynistic. It doesn’t make it woke, you know, it doesn’t make you a snowflake to tell someone that they’ve made a mistake.”

    “I think Republican or Democrat, we can all agree that … when your kid’s connected to a ventilator, you don’t want to be anywhere but their bedside,” he added, bringing up the fact that the secretary would go to a virtual background in the hospital room’s bathroom to get on a Zoom call so nobody could see he was in a hospital.

    “I just don’t take that when it’s directed at my family and I don’t think anybody else would, especially when you bring a very small, medically fragile child into it,” he continued.

    Buttigieg also asserted that Pence’s dig “flies in the face of what he says he is.”

    “He says he’s a ‘family values’ Republican. … I don’t think he’s practicing what he preaches here,” he added, arguing that the dig was “part of a much bigger trend.”

    The Buttigiegs adopted twins in 2021. After announcing he would take two months paternity leave to be with his newborn son and daughter, Pete Buttigieg received an onslaught of negative reactions from right-wing pundits.

    “It’s a bigger conversation about the work that women do in families, right?” Chasten Buttigieg added. “Taking a swipe at all women and all families, and expecting that women would stay home and raise children, I think, is a pretty misogynistic view, especially from a man who just last year said that we should be supporting more people who adopt.”

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  • Jimmy Kimmel Can’t Get His Head Around Donald Trump’s Latest Wild Claim

    Jimmy Kimmel Can’t Get His Head Around Donald Trump’s Latest Wild Claim

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    Jimmy Kimmel, fresh from hosting this year’s Oscars ceremony, on Tuesday returned to his late-night TV show with digs about former President Donald Trump.

    Kimmel in particular said he couldn’t fathom Trump’s attempted spin on who was really to blame for the deadly U.S. Capitol riot he incited on Jan. 6, 2021.

    Per Trump, former Vice President Mike Pence is actually responsible for the violence — because he refused to help Trump overturn the 2020 election result.

    It’s the presidential equivalent of, “If the teller had just put the money in the bag, everyone would have made it home sage,” said Kimmel.

    “Listen, Mike pence can be blamed for a lot of things … but he didn’t cause Jan. 6. They tried to hang him on Jan. 6,” he added.

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  • Pence says ‘history will hold Donald Trump accountable’ for January 6 | CNN Politics

    Pence says ‘history will hold Donald Trump accountable’ for January 6 | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence made his most blistering comments yet about former President Donald Trump’s role in the January 6 attack on the US Capitol during remarks Saturday evening at the annual Gridiron Club Dinner in Washington, DC.

    Pence began his remarks at the dinner, which traditionally features politicians making jokes about notable Washington figures, with lighthearted comments about Trump, President Joe Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and several Republicans expected to run for president in 2024, including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley.

    He then took a serious tone, noting the attack on the Capitol was “one thing I haven’t joked about” and calling January 6 “a tragic day.”

    Pence rebuked Trump for his role in the January 6, 2021 attack, saying he was “wrong” for claiming Pence had the authority to overturn the results of the 2020 election in his role presiding over Congress that day, saying “history will hold Donald Trump accountable.”

    “President Trump was wrong. I had no right to overturn the election and his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know that history will hold Donald Trump accountable,” Pence said.

    Pence scolded those who have downplayed the people who entered the Capitol on January 6 as tourists.

    “Tourists don’t injure 140 police officers by sightseeing,” Pence said. “Tourists don’t break down doors to get to the Speaker of the House or voice threats against public officials.”

    Pence chastised Republicans who minimized the insurrection, days after Fox News host Tucker Carlson aired new security footage from inside the Capitol on January 6 in an attempt to defend the mob.

    “Make no mistake about it, what happened that day was a disgrace, and it mocks decency to portray it in any other way,” Pence said at the dinner.

    Pence also said people “have a right to know what took place” during the insurrection, days after he asked a judge to block a subpoena for his testimony to the special counsel investigating the insurrection.

    “The American people have a right to know what took place at the Capitol on January 6, and I expect members of the fourth estate to continue to do their job,” Pence said at the dinner.

    The comments come after attorneys for Pence filed a motion last week asking a judge to block a federal grand jury subpoena for his testimony related to January 6. Pence had publicly signaled that he planned to resist the subpoena, arguing it was “unconstitutional and unprecedented.”

    Former Trump chief economic adviser Gary Cohn said Sunday he agreed with Pence’s comments about the January 6 attack.

    “Look, that was a shocking day in the history of this country. We continue to be reminded about January 6, and I think we will all live with it and all live with the memories of what happened on January 6. I agree – I agree with him,” Cohn said in an interview with CNN’s Kaitlan Collins on “State of the Union.”

    Republican Rep. Michael McCaul of Texas similarly told CBS News Sunday that Pence “exercised moral clarity and judgment that day by doing his constitutional responsibility” and helped avoid “a major constitutional crisis that day.”

    “History will judge everyone by what they did that day,” McCaul said, noting that he voted to certify the 2020 election results.

    During his remarks Saturday evening, Pence repeatedly praised the media’s coverage of the January 6 attack at the dinner, which traditionally includes members of the Washington press corps among its attendees, and said he was able to carry out his role in certifying the election “in part” because of the media’s real-time coverage of the insurrection.

    “We were able to stay at our post, in part, because you stayed at your post. The American people know what happened that day because you never stopped reporting,” Pence said.

    “For what you do to preserve and strengthen this great democracy, you have my heartfelt thanks and I know the thanks of a grateful nation. Thanks for what you do to preserve freedom,” Pence continued.

    The former Vice President also pledged to “never, ever” downplay the violence that law enforcement officers suffered at the hands of rioters at the Capitol.

    “For as long as I live I will never, ever diminish the injuries sustained, the lives lost, or the heroism of law enforcement on that tragic day,” Pence said.

    Pence also made jokes at the expense of the former President at the dinner, which traditionally features politicians taking the opportunity to make light of Washington figures from both parties. Pence said during one of his jokes, “I think (Trump) and I are on very good terms.”

    “I mean, he’s never called me a low-energy moron. Not yet,” he continued.

    He also poked fun at Trump’s various legal troubles, saying “Honestly, I learned a lot working beside Donald Trump, like about subpoenas for instance.”

    This story has been updated with additional information Sunday.

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  • Mike Pence Has Sharpest Jan. 6 Rebuke Yet: Trump’s Words Were ‘Reckless’

    Mike Pence Has Sharpest Jan. 6 Rebuke Yet: Trump’s Words Were ‘Reckless’

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    WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Vice President Mike Pence on Saturday harshly criticized former President Donald Trump for his role in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol, widening the rift between the two men as they prepare to battle over the Republican nomination in next year’s election.

    “President Trump was wrong,” Pence said during remarks at the annual white-tie Gridiron Dinner attended by politicians and journalists. “I had no right to overturn the election. And his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable.”

    Pence’s remarks were the sharpest condemnation yet from the once-loyal lieutenant who has often shied away from confronting his former boss. Trump has already declared his candidacy. Pence has not, but he’s been laying the groundwork to run.

    In the days leading up to Jan. 6, 2021, Trump pressured Pence to overturn President Joe Biden’s election victory as he presided over the ceremonial certification of the results. Pence refused, and when rioters stormed the Capitol, some chanted that they wanted to “hang Mike Pence.”

    The House committee that investigated the attack said in its final report that “the President of the United States had riled up a mob that hunted his own Vice President.”

    With his remarks, Pence solidified his place in a broader debate within the Republican Party over how to view the attack. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, for example, recently provided Tucker Carlson with an archive of security camera footage from Jan. 6, which the Fox News host has used to downplay the day’s events and promote conspiracy theories.

    “Make no mistake about it, what happened that day was a disgrace,” Pence said in his Gridiron Dinner remarks. “And it mocks decency to portray it any other way.”

    Trump, meanwhile, has continued to spread lies about his election loss. He’s even spoken in support of the rioters and said he would consider pardoning them if he was reelected.

    FILE – Former Vice President Mike Pence speaks with reporters on March 2 in South Carolina. Pence went after Trump’s actions on Jan. 6, 2021 and also made jokes about his ego during the annual white-tie Gridiron Dinner on Saturday.

    Speeches at the Gridiron Dinner are usually humorous affairs, where politicians poke fun at each other, and Pence did plenty of that as well.

    He joked that Trump’s ego was so fragile, he wanted his vice president to sing “Wind Beneath My Wings” — one of the lines is “did you ever know that you’re my hero?” — during their weekly lunches.

    He took another shot at Trump over classified documents.

    “I read that some of those classified documents they found at Mar-a-Lago were actually stuck in the president’s Bible,” Pence said. “Which proves he had absolutely no idea they were there.”

    Even before the dinner was over, Pence was facing criticism for his jokes about Transportation Secretary Buttigieg, the first openly gay Cabinet member in U.S. history.

    Pence mentioned that, despite travel problems that were plaguing Americans, Buttigieg took “maternity leave” after he and his husband adopted newborn twins.

    “Pete is the only person in human history to have a child and everyone else gets post-partum depression,” Pence said. ___

    Megerian reported from Wilmington, Delaware.

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  • Pence says

    Pence says

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    In some of his harshest language to date, former Vice President Mike Pence Saturday night condemned former President Donald Trump’s continued election denialism, calling Trump’s actions “wrong.”

    “History will hold Donald Trump accountable,” Pence said, addressing an audience of politicians and journalist at the Gridiron Club Dinner in Washington, D.C.

    “President Trump was wrong,” Pence said about Trump’s baseless claims that there was voter fraud in the 2020 election. “I had no right to overturn the election, and his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day. And I know that history will hold Donald Trump accountable for his actions.” 

    Pence also criticized right-wing politicians and media personalities who have sought to sanitize the Capitol attack on Jan. 6, 2021. 

    “It was not, as some would have you believe, tourists visiting the Capitol,” Pence said. “Tourists don’t injure 140 police officers by sightseeing. Tourists don’t break down doors to get to the speaker of the House.”

    This week, Fox News media personality Tucker Carlson aired a controversial report about the Jan. 6 attack using video provided exclusively by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Carlson falsely claimed Capitol Police officers helped the mob of Trump’s supporters and acted as “tour guides.”

    Carlson also claimed that the attack was “mostly peaceful,” and alleged that a majority of the rioters who unlawfully entered the Capitol were “sightseers.”

    “It mocks decency to portray [Jan. 6] in any other way,” Pence said Saturday.

    Trump publicly pressured Pence to overturn election results after weeks of alleging mass voter fraud. Pence resisted, saying he could not change the outcome, and after the pro-Trump mob was cleared from the Capitol, Pence and members of Congress certified the election results for Biden.

    Pence added he was “not afraid,” as he watched the pro-Trump mob ascend on the Capitol, but instead, that he was was “angry.”

    Pence, a possible challenger to Trump for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination, is yet to announce an official bid. Recently, he told CBS News that he and his wife are “continuing to give prayerful consideration to entering the race.”

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  • Mike Pence asks judge to block subpoena for Jan. 6 testimony | CNN Politics

    Mike Pence asks judge to block subpoena for Jan. 6 testimony | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence has filed a motion asking a judge to block a federal grand jury subpoena for his testimony related to January 6 on the grounds that he is protected by the Constitution’s Speech or Debate Clause, according to a source familiar with the filing.

    Pence had publicly signaled that he planned to resist the subpoena, arguing it was “unconstitutional and unprecedented.” His legal team filed the motion Friday night, the same day former President Donald Trump’s attorneys asked a judge to block Pence from speaking to a grand jury about certain matters covered by executive privilege.

    The Pence motion – filed as part of sealed proceedings – seeks to stop testimony pertaining to his legislative functions around January 6, which could potentially include a broad swath of testimony. It is separate from Trump’s motion, which argues that the former president can shield former aides from sharing internal communications.

    Special counsel Jack Smith is seeking documents and testimony related to January 6, 2021, and wants Pence to testify about his interactions with Trump leading up to the 2020 election and the day of the attack on the US Capitol.

    But the former vice president asserts that because he was also acting as president of the Senate that day, he is shielded by the Speech or Debate Clause, which protects lawmakers from certain law enforcement actions targeted at their legislative duties.

    Pence has written a memoir detailing his interactions with Trump leading up to January 6, which could complicate efforts to resist the subpoena.

    His team previously indicated to the Justice Department that he’d be open to answering questions if they were limited to the matters he had previously discussed publicly, including in his book, a source told CNN.

    Pence’s legal team did not comment. The Justice Department also did not comment.

    Since taking over the investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election, Smith, who has a reputation for moving quickly, has accelerated the probe’s pace and began imposing tight deadlines on subpoenas. Smith also is simultaneously investigating Trump’s handling of classified documents after leaving office.

    Trump huddled with several members of his legal team at his Mar-A-Lago resort in Palm Beach last week to discuss Smith’s investigations, according to a source familiar with the meeting.

    Smith recently subpoenaed Trump’s former chief of staff Mark Meadows and Trump’s former national security adviser Robert O’Brien in both of the Trump-related probes, and investigators have sat down with his former acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf as part of the probe into 2020 election interference.

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  • 3/1: CBS News Prime Time

    3/1: CBS News Prime Time

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    3/1: CBS News Prime Time – CBS News


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    John Dickerson reports on explosives found in luggage at an airport, companies cutting the price of insulin, and why Mexico’s electoral reforms are drawing concerns about democracy.

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  • Conservative Legal Icon Gives Mike Pence A Stinging Reality Check On Subpoena Fight

    Conservative Legal Icon Gives Mike Pence A Stinging Reality Check On Subpoena Fight

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    A conservative retired federal judge has slammed former Vice President Mike Pence’s decision to fight a grand jury subpoena to testify in the Department of Justice’s investigation into the part played by Donald Trump in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

    In an essay for The New York Times published Friday, J. Michael Luttig warned Pence ― who in January 2021 he actually advised on rejecting Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election result ― was playing a dangerous game by threatening to challenge the subpoena all the way to the Supreme Court.

    It could seriously backfire on Pence politically, the George H.W. Bush-appointed judge suggested.

    “The former vice president should not want the embarrassing spectacle of the Supreme Court compelling him to appear before a grand jury in Washington just when he’s starting his campaign for the presidency,” he wrote.

    Pence, who’s said he’ll likely decide on a 2024 presidential run by the spring, is “considered by many of us across the political spectrum to be a profile in courage” for choosing democracy over his former boss, said Luttig.

    But Pence’s branding of the “perfectly legitimate subpoena as unconstitutional is a far cry from the constitutionally hallowed ground on which he stood on Jan. 6,” Luttig added.

    The federal courts will “make short shrift of this ‘Hail Mary’ claim” and Pence “doesn’t have a chance in the world of winning his case,” he cautioned.

    Luttig advised Pence not to “let this dangerous tactic play out for long.”

    “If he does, it will be more than he wished for,” he concluded.

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  • Report: The Special Counsel Isn’t Going to Let Mike Pence Weasel Out of Testifying About 1/6

    Report: The Special Counsel Isn’t Going to Let Mike Pence Weasel Out of Testifying About 1/6

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    In the immediate wake of the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, a narrative emerged that Mike Pence was a national hero for refusing to do Donald Trump’s bidding and block the certification of Joe Biden’s Electoral College win. Of course, as we later learned, a more precise description of the then VP would have been “guy who did the bare minimum and actually tried very hard to find a way to prevent Biden from becoming president out of slavish loyalty to Trump.” Thanks to reporting in Bob Woodward and Robert Costa’s book, Peril, we know that Pence, in his own words, told Trump that he did “everything” he could to try and stop the certification of the 2020 election, and pleaded with former vice president Dan Quayle to help him figure out if there was any way to do so, telling Quayle: “You don’t know the position I’m in.” And two years after the fact? Pence is still doing Trump’s bidding.

    On Thursday, CBS News reported that Special Counsel Jack Smith asked a federal judge to force Pence to comply with a grand jury subpoena to testify regarding Trump’s attempt to overturn the election and the insurrection that followed. If you were still laboring under the impression that Pence did the right thing on January 6 from the get-go, you might think he’d have no problem complying with the request. But of course, he did not do the right thing, and has indicated he’ll fight the subpoena, just like he did when the January 6 committee attempted to get him to testify. Only this time, the former vice president has made the absurd argument that, because he was acting in his capacity as the president of the Senate while presiding over the vote count, he was essentially a legislator and is therefore not required to testify thanks to constitutional protections afforded to the legislative branch.

    “On the day of January 6, I was acting as president of the Senate, presiding over a joint session described in the Constitution itself. So, I believe that that Speech and Debate clause of the Constitution actually prohibits the executive branch from compelling me to appear in a court, as the Constitution says, or in any other place,” Pence told reporters last week. “We’ll stand on that principle and we’ll take that case as far as it needs to go, if it needs be to the Supreme Court of the United States.”

    Unfortunately for the former VP—who was very much not a member of Congress on January 6—not everyone is buying that argument. Jack Smith, for one, but also the guy who told him there was no legal basis for him to block Biden’s win that day. In an op-ed published on Friday, J. Michael Luttig—a former federal appeals court judge who has both the distinction of being a longtime conservative and the person whose counsel Pence listened to concerning certifying the 2020 results—wrote:

    If Mr. Pence’s lawyers or advisers have told him that it will take the federal courts months and months or longer to decide his claim and that he will never have to testify before the grand jury, they are mistaken. We can expect the federal courts to make short shrift of this “Hail Mary” claim, and Mr. Pence doesn’t have a chance in the world of winning his case in any federal court and avoiding testifying before the grand jury.

    And also:

    Whatever the courts may or may not find the scope of any protection to be, they will unquestionably hold that Mr. Pence is nonetheless required to testify in response to Mr. Smith’s subpoena.

    And our favorite part:

    Mr. Pence’s lawyers would be well advised to have Jack Smith’s phone number on speed dial and call him before he calls them. The special counsel will be waiting, though not nearly as long as Mr. Pence’s lawyers may be thinking. No prosecutor, least of all Mr. Smith, will abide this political gambit for long.… The only question now is not whether he will have to testify before the grand jury, but how soon. The special counsel is in the driver’s seat, and the timing of Mr. Pence’s appearance before the grand jury is largely in his hands. Mr. Smith will bide his time for only so long.

    Maybe something for the former VP to consider.

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  • Special counsel asks judge to compel Pence to comply with subpoena in Jan. 6 investigation

    Special counsel asks judge to compel Pence to comply with subpoena in Jan. 6 investigation

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    Special counsel asks judge to compel Pence to comply with subpoena in Jan. 6 investigation – CBS News


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    Federal prosecutors have asked a judge to compel former Vice President Mike Pence to comply with a subpeona in its investigation of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

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  • Former judge who advised Pence critiques his rejection of special counsel’s subpoena

    Former judge who advised Pence critiques his rejection of special counsel’s subpoena

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    Washington —When former Vice President Mike Pence was subpoenaed by special counsel Jack Smith, who is investigating any involvement by former President Donald Trump in the events surrounding the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, he soon announced his opposition to testifying. He called the subpoena “unconstitutional,” arguing that under the Constitution, “the executive branch cannot summon officials in the legislative branch into a court in any other place.” 

    As vice president, Pence was a member of the executive branch during the Trump administration but also held the unique role of president of the Senate and presided over the joint session of Congress that certified the 2020 Electoral College votes. On the basis of the responsibilities related to the election, he is invoking the Constitution’s Speech or Debate clause, which protects members of Congress from being questioned about their legislative actions by other branches of the federal government. Pence’s legal team plans to argue that he should not have to testify, in part because of the duty he fulfilled on Jan. 6, 2021. 

    “On the day of January 6, I was acting as president of the Senate, presiding over a joint session described in the Constitution itself. So I believe that that Speech and Debate clause of the Constitution actually prohibits the executive branch from compelling me to appear in a court, as the Constitution says, or in any other place,” Pence said this week in Iowa, “We’ll stand on that principle and we’ll take that case as far as it needs to go, if it needs be to the Supreme Court of the United States.”

    This argument is likely to result in sealed court hearings and legal briefs filed under seal, as Pence’s team and federal prosecutors try to convince a federal judge in Washington, D.C. that their interpretation of the law is the right one. 

    One prominent conservative legal voice — whose counsel Pence sought after the 2020 election — has cast doubt on Pence’s legal strategy. Former federal Judge Michael Luttig, a staunch conservative jurist who personally advised Pence that he did not have the unilateral power to overturn Joe Biden’s victory, wrote on Twitter that while the issue raised is an “unsettled question of constitutional law,” any privileges a vice president obtains from his or her role in Congress are “few in number and limited in scope.” 

    Luttig, who testified before a House Jan. 6 select committee hearing about his advice to Pence regarding the presidential electors, wrote on Thursday that any immunity Pence would have under the Speech or Debate Clause would not be sufficient to reject the subpoena. 

    “If there are privileges and protections enjoyed by a Vice President when he or she serves as the President of the Senate during the Joint Session to count the electoral votes, those privileges and protections would yield to the demands of the criminal process,” Luttig wrote. The protections Pence plans to invoke, he contended, will likely not apply. 

    CBS News has reached out to Pence’s team for any reaction to Luttig’s analysis.

     Scott Fredericksen, a former federal prosecutor and independent counsel, says Luttig’s skepticism is warranted. 

    “I don’t think it’s viable,” he said of Pence’s claim of privilege. “Is it an open question? Technical yes, because there has never been a ruling from a court, let alone the Supreme court” on the issue.  

    But he continued, “I think it is highly unlikely that it would be viable, highly unlikely that it would be sustained by a court.” 

    Fredericksen says a few factors weigh heavily against Pence’s claim of privileged status as a legislator:  Pence was not an elected member of Congress at the time, and he has repeatedly asserted that his role on Jan. 6 was a ceremonial one. 

    After a concerted pressure campaign by Trump and his allies to convince Pence to deny Mr. Biden’s victory in the joint session of Congress and return the issue to the states, Pence publicly revealed some of his conversations with Trump and characterized his role that day as merely presiding over the lawmakers, both of which Smith’s team of prosecutors have likely taken into consideration. 

    The unique legal strategy Pence is now taking, according to Fredericksen, may still be a smart one politically because it could delay any testimony against his former boss just as the presidential primary season is getting underway. 

    A former senior Justice Department official, who spoke with CBS News on the condition of anonymity to speak freely, differs from Luttig and suggests that Pence’s legal theory is “credible.”

    “The notion that he should enjoy a legislative immunity seems likely to be correct,” the former official said, “To the extent that the question is, ‘was the Vice President seeking to get information on how to carry out his legislative duties,’ that would apply.” 

    Still, the former Justice Department official said many questions are raised by Pence’s assertion of this broad and novel privilege, like the scope of his duties in the Senate and the issues prosecutors seek to cover in the questioning. 

    “I think it’s credible but, whether it will apply is something the courts will figure out,” the former official added.

    Pence is not the first official in Trump’s orbit to claim legislative immunity in an attempt to quash a subpoena. South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham asked the courts to block him from testifying before a special grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, investigating allegations of election interference by Trump and his allies. Ultimately, a federal judge ruled Graham had to testify, but could avoid questions that explicitly dealt with his role as a lawmaker. The Supreme Court declined the senator’s request to further consider the issue. 

    The former vice president himself was sued in a civil action brought by Texas GOP Rep. Louie Gohmert over Pence’s role in certifying the results of the presidential election. The Justice Department during the Trump administration, in defending Pence, wrote that the Speech or Debate clause could offer protection to the vice president “in his official capacity as the President of the Senate.” 

    And the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., is reportedly adjudicating a secret case concerning Rep. Scott Perry and the seizure of his cell phone by federal investigators. The Pennsylvania Republican had previously argued similar legislative immunity shielded him from such acts. A hearing is set for late next week. 

    Both Fredericksen and the former Justice Department official agree it is likely some of these legal issues were raised by Smith’s team, but not issuing a subpoena to Pence could have left them vulnerable if they decide to bring a case against Trump.

    “You learn as a prosecutor you have to bring every important witness in or face the prospect of a defense attorney pointing out their absence” to a jury, Fredericksen noted. 

     “They fully expect to have this challenge,” he said, echoing Luttig’s analysis, but the demands of the criminal investigation could surmount any attempt by Pence to avoid testifying. 

    Smith’s office declined to comment. 

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  • Feds search Pence’s DC office and don’t find any new classified docs, aide says | CNN Politics

    Feds search Pence’s DC office and don’t find any new classified docs, aide says | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Federal investigators searched former Vice President Mike Pence’s Washington, DC, office on Friday for classified information and did not turn up any new classified documents, a Pence spokesman said.

    The search followed an FBI search of Pence’s Indiana home last week after a lawyer for the former vice president discovered classified documents there last month.

    “The Department of Justice today completed a thorough and unrestricted search of Advancing American Freedom’s office for several hours and found no new documents with classified markings. One binder with approximately three previously redacted documents was taken,” Pence adviser Devin O’Malley said in a statement.

    The documents in the binder were believed to be from 2020 debate prep, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    CNN has reached out to the FBI and the Justice Department for comment.

    The search, which was conducted consensually with Pence’s counsel present, included both documents with classified markings as well as unclassified documents that could fall under the Presidential Records Act, which requires all official documents be turned over to the National Archives at the end of an administration.

    The FBI searches of Pence’s office and residence come as federal investigators have also searched President Joe Biden’s former offices and residences after he discovered he possessed classified documents late last year.

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  • Pence says he’s willing to take fight against DOJ subpoena in Trump probe to Supreme Court | CNN Politics

    Pence says he’s willing to take fight against DOJ subpoena in Trump probe to Supreme Court | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday that he is willing to take his fight against a subpoena for his testimony in the Justice Department’s 2020 election subversion investigation all the way to the Supreme Court.

    “I am going to fight the Biden DOJ subpoena for me to appear before the grand jury because I believe it’s unconstitutional and unprecedented,” Pence told reporters after making a speech in Iowa.

    He said he expects former President Donald Trump to bring his own challenge to the subpoena that will raise executive privilege claims. Pence, however, intends to fight the subpoena under the Constitution’s Speech or Debate Clause, which shields legislators from certain law enforcement actions targeting conduct related to their legislative duties.

    While other witnesses have raised Speech or Debate Clause argument in efforts to resist subpoenas in the DOJ probe and in the other investigations into January 6, 2021, Pence plans to invoke the clause in relation to his role as president of the Senate – which is believed to be untrod legal ground.

    In that role, he presided over Congress’ certification of the 2020 election results on January 6, 2021.

    “On the day of January 6, I was acting as President of the Senate, presiding over a Joint Session, described in the Constitution itself,” Pence said. “And so, I believe that that Speech and Debate Clause of the Constitution actually prohibits the executive branch from compelling me to appear in a court, as the Constitution says, or in any other place. And we’ll stand on that principle and we’ll take that case as far as it needs to go, if need be to the Supreme Court of the United States, because to me, it’s – it’s an issue of the separation of powers.”

    He said that over the last “several months,” his team had made it clear to the Justice Department that he believed the Speech or Debate Clause precluded a subpoena for his testimony.

    CNN previously reported on Pence’s plans to raise claims under the Speech or Debate Clause.

    Pence also noted that he has written and spoken publicly about the events leading up to the January 6 certification vote. But, he said, “if we were to accede to accept a subpoena for appearance before a grand jury or a trial, I believe that would diminish the privileges enjoyed by any future vice president, either Democrat or Republican. I simply will not do that.”

    Pence first spoke publicly about his plans to fight the subpoena at an event in Minneapolis earlier Wednesday, saying that his fight was about ” separation of powers” and “defending the prerogatives that I had as president of the Senate.”

    “My fight is on the separation of powers. My fight against the DOJ subpoena very simply is on defending the prerogatives that I had as president of the Senate to preside over the Joint Session of Congress on January 6,” Pence told reporters in Minneapolis.

    “For me this is a moment where you have to decide where you stand and I stand on the Constitution of the United States,” he added.

    Pence is one of several former members of Trump’s inner circle whose testimony federal investigators have sought, as they scrutinize the events leading up to and during the January 6, 2021, riot at the Capitol. That probe, as well as the federal investigation into Trump’s handling of documents from his White House that were found at Mar-a-Lago, have taken a more aggressive tack since special counsel Jack Smith took over both investigations.

    This story has been updated with additional information.

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  • Pence to fight subpoena on separation of powers grounds because he was president of Senate | CNN Politics

    Pence to fight subpoena on separation of powers grounds because he was president of Senate | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence is expected to fight a recent subpoena from the special counsel based on the grounds that he was president of the Senate at the time and therefore shielded from the order, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

    Pence is expected to address the subpoena and his response to it during a trip to Iowa on Wednesday, according to a source familiar with his plans.

    Pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating former President Donald Trump and his role in January 6, 2021, a source familiar with the matter told CNN. Special counsel Jack Smith’s office is seeking documents and testimony, the source said. Investigators want the former vice president to testify about his interactions with Trump leading up to the 2020 election and the day of the attack on the US Capitol.

    The subpoena marks an important milestone in the Justice Department’s two-year criminal investigation, now led by the special counsel, into the efforts by Trump and allies to impede the transfer of power after he lost the 2020 election. Pence is an important witness who has detailed in a memoir some of his interactions with Trump in the weeks after the election, a move that likely opens the door for the Justice Department to override at least some of Trump’s claims of executive privilege.

    This story has been updated with additional details.

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  • Trump lawyers turned over material marked classified found at Mar-a-Lago in January

    Trump lawyers turned over material marked classified found at Mar-a-Lago in January

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    FBI searches Mike Pence’s home for documents


    FBI conducts search of Mike Pence’s home for classified documents

    02:46

    Lawyers for former President Donald Trump have turned over a newly discovered folder marked classified to the U.S. government, according to two people familiar with the exchange of material, which was found at Mar-a-Lago last month.

    ABC News first reported on the new material.

    And, according to a source close to Trump’s legal team, Trump is expected to contest special counsel Jack Smith’s subpoena of former Vice President Mike Pence on executive privilege grounds.

    Smith was appointed in November to oversee the Justice Department’s criminal investigation into Trump, including the allegations that he retained national defense information at his residence at Mar-a-Lago and key aspects of the Jan. 6 investigation

    Sources told CBS News in November that the Justice Department had reached out to Pence in connection to Trump’s alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election and Jan. 6, 2021. Sources familiar with the matter told CBS News at the time that Pence had received the request and was reviewing it. 

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  • FBI searches Pence’s Indiana home for classified records

    FBI searches Pence’s Indiana home for classified records

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    FBI searches Pence’s Indiana home for classified records – CBS News


    Watch CBS News



    The FBI conducted a scheduled search of former Vice President Mike Pence’s Indiana home, looking for any potentially classified material. Meanwhile, the special counsel investigating former President Donald Trump’s effort to overturn the 2020 election wants to hear from Pence under oath about the pressure campaign he faced from Trump. Robert Costa has the details.

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