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  • CBS News poll finds after latest Trump indictment, many Americans see implications for democracy. For some, it’s personal

    CBS News poll finds after latest Trump indictment, many Americans see implications for democracy. For some, it’s personal

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    America’s response to this week’s indictment of Donald Trump is providing a window into more than just how Americans view his alleged actions per se — but also into what they think it means for democracy itself.

    • Half the nation believes Trump tried to stay in office beyond his term through illegal and unconstitutional means. 
    • To most Americans, such an effort would mean undermining democracy.
    • For them and for a majority of Americans overall, the series of indictments and ongoing investigations against Trump are seen as “defending democracy” and “upholding the rule of law.”
    • Just under a third of the country thinks Trump was trying to stay in office through legal, constitutional means — legal, in part because most of them (and including most Republicans) believe Trump’s claim that the election was illegitimate in the first place. 
    • For most Republicans, the series of indictments are also personal, seeing them as “an attack” on people like them — echoing some of Trump’s rhetoric on the campaign trail. 
    • And big majorities of Republicans think the indictments are an attempt to stop Trump’s 2024 presidential campaign.
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    Most Americans generally describe the multiple indictments Trump is now facing as “upholding the rule of law” and “defending democracy.” 

    Most also think they are an effort to stop Trump’s 2024 campaign, boosted by Republicans who are very likely to think so (but this group actually includes some Democrats, too, perhaps seeing that campaign as a threat to democracy in the same way they see Trump’s actions.)

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    A closer look at partisan differences

    There are more strong party splits over what all these indictments mean. Democrats see it as upholding the law. Republicans see it as a political move, and most Republicans see it personally as an attack on people like them, channeling some of Trump’s campaign points.

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    There are some differences within the GOP, though: it’s MAGA-identifiers who see the indictments as an attack on people like them. But nearly all Republicans feel the indictments are an attempt to stop the Trump campaign.

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    Most independents, along with large numbers of Democrats, say that if in fact Trump was trying to overturn an election, that would be undermining democracy.

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    Opinion here seems related to what people believe about the 2020 election. Those who think Joe Biden was not legitimately elected — mostly Republicans — tend to think Trump planned to stay in office through legal processes, and some of them think he was upholding democracy.

    As has been the case since he took office, most Republicans have said they don’t think Mr. Biden was legitimately elected.

    biden-legitimate-winner-party.png

    Where might this go next?

    Concern about an attempted overturn, and concern about political motivations, aren’t mutually exclusive. Many Americans are concerned about both when asked to weigh them. 

    But for Republicans, we see overwhelming concern more about the perceived politics, just as we did when we asked about the charges and politics after the classified documents indictment.

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    There’s a group, about a fifth of the country, who aren’t entirely taking party lines in either direction, who do think Biden won legitimately, and also that Trump didn’t act illegally. Some voice concern the charges are political, but four in 10 of them say that if Trump did try to overturn the election, it would be undermining democracy. So, this would be the group to watch if, in fact, a trial gets underway, but right now, they aren’t paying as much attention to the events.

    This CBS News/YouGov survey was conducted with a nationally representative sample of 2,145 U.S. adult residents interviewed between August 2-4, 2023. The sample was weighted according to gender, age, race, and education based on the U.S. Census American Community Survey and Current Population Survey, as well as past vote. The margin of error is ±2.9 points. 

    Toplines

    Anthony Salvanto


    Anthony Salvanto

    Anthony Salvanto, Ph.D., is CBS News’ director of elections and surveys. He oversees all polling across the nation, states and congressional races, and heads the CBS News Decision Desk that estimates outcomes on election nights. He is the author of “Where Did You Get This Number: A Pollster’s Guide to Making Sense of the World,” from Simon & Schuster (a division of Paramount Global), and appears regularly across all CBS News platforms. His scholarly research and writings cover topics on polling methodology, voting behavior, and sampling techniques.

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  • Transcript: Former Vice President Mike Pence on

    Transcript: Former Vice President Mike Pence on

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    The following is a transcript of an interview with former Vice President Mike Pence that will air on “Face the Nation” on Aug. 6, 2023.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Mr. Vice President, you were in New Hampshire recently, as you were going to an event, some Trump supporters came to you and called you a traitor, said you were a sellout, said you didn’t uphold the Constitution. To what degree does that rattle you?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: You know, I know in my heart of hearts, that on January 6, I did my duty, kept my oath to the Constitution of the United States. And the thing that I’m encouraged about, Major, is as we travel, not only here in New Hampshire, but around the country, is more and more Americans are recognizing that we kept our oath that day. And I think with this week’s news I’ve had- I’ve had so many people come up to me and just express their appreciation for the stand that we took, by God’s grace, to do our duty to see to the peaceful transfer of power. And I’m encouraged by that, I must tell you. Look, President Trump was wrong. He was wrong then. He’s wrong now. I had no right to overturn the election. And more and more Americans are coming up to me every day and recognizing that, and- and for my part, I’m running for president in part because, frankly, President Trump asked me to put him over the Constitution that day, but I chose the Constitution and I always will.

    MAJOR GARRETT: So I want to ask you about characterizations that have been made by those who speak on behalf of the president’s legal team. They’ve said this week that all they asked of you, that is to say the president, was to delay the proceedings to allow states to conduct an audit. Is that a truthful representation of what you were asked to do, Mr. Vice President?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE:  Major, that’s not what happened. And, you know, as I wrote about in my book, as I’ve spoken about very openly, and- and frankly, as is recounted in aspects of the pleadings that were filed this week. From-from sometime in the middle of December, the president began to be told that I had some authority to reject or return votes back to the states. I had no such authority. No vice president in American history had ever asserted that authority and no one ever should. Your viewers can go to Article II of the Constitution and see that it’s very clear. It says that the vice president, as president of the Senate, should preside over the House and Senate in a joint session, and that the Electoral College votes shall be opened and shall be counted. There was no discretion ever given to the vice president in history, nor should there ever be. I had no right to overturn the election and Kamala Harris will have no right to overturn the election when we beat them in 2024. But look, I- I- I stand by the facts as they occurred. I mean, it ebbed and flowed between different legal theories, but at the end of the day, I know we did our duty. I know we kept our oath. But I- I truly do believe that, you know, no one who ever puts himself over the Constitution should ever be president of the United States. I mean, our Constitution is more important than any one man and our country is more important than any one man’s career. And, you know, I’m running because, not just I kept faith with the Constitution every day for those four years, but also because this country is in a lot of trouble. And frankly, I know the media is preoccupied with this issue and virtually everything having to do with my former running mate, but as I travel around New Hampshire, as I was in Iowa over the last week, people are struggling in this economy. They’re worried about the world becoming more dangerous by the day. They’re seeing energy prices spike. And we’re gonna focus on those issues even while making the case that, that we kept our word, we kept our oath and by God’s grace, we did our duty on that fateful day.

    MAJOR GARRETT: To the point you just made, Mr. Vice President, some Republicans have lamented that so far, this primary conversation within the Republican Party, is content free, policy free because of all the distractions around it. Do you agree?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I think it’s- it’s- it’s one of the unfortunate aspects of- of this week’s news around the president is now this is- this just ensures that- that many in the media and in the public debate are going to spend more time talking about the president and his legal challenges than talking about what the American people are facing. I- I- I gotta tell you, I gave a speech last week, at the Indiana State Fair outlining my plan to tackle inflation. We came out with a very first plan to do that. In the coming week, we’re gonna lay out our plan to unleash American energy and achieve American energy independence, but it’s- it’s just one more reason why I’m convinced that not only do we need new leadership in the White House, but we need new leadership in the Republican Party and I’ve just determined, my wife and I are to travel all across New Hampshire, all across Iowa, all the early states and tell our story and focus on those issues the American people are focused on and I’m very confident, more every day that the American people are going to rally around a standard bearer that is focused on the issues they’re dealing with, rather than re-litigating the past or focusing on the latest controversy in the media.

    MAJOR GARRETT: It is a matter of public interest, though, Mr. Vice President, if this case comes to trial, would you be a witness against the president?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I will- I will tell you, you know, I didn’t want anything to do with the January 6 committee. That was a partisan committee on Capitol Hill, Major. And it seemed to me to be just politics, from the very start, particularly when- when Nancy Pelosi dismissed, you know, members of Congress that Speaker McCarthy wanted on the committee. And frankly, you know, I was one of the first people to denounce that indictment in Manhattan and to denounce the raid on the president’s home, but in this case, we’ve stood firmly for the rule of law. You know, I- I took a stand, we challenged in court the scope of any testimony that I could provide, because as president of the Senate, the Constitution provides me with the protections that are afforded to members of Congress. We- we won that at the lower court level and, and ultimately, we responded to a subpoena, and I have no plans to testify, but people can be confident we’ll- we’ll obey the law. We’ll respond to the call of the law, if it comes and we’ll just tell the truth. Look, I’ve been telling this story over the last two years. But I must tell you over the last week, it seems that more and more Americans have been coming up to me and just expressing a word of appreciation, for what by God’s grace that we did that day. You know, I took that oath in January of 2021. To- excuse me, January 2017- to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I made that promise to the American people and to Almighty God, and by His grace, and with their support, we kept that oath every single day, including through that day and- and we’ll continue to tell that story everywhere we go.

    MAJOR GARRETT: To be clear, Mr. Vice President, you do not regard this indictment as the political persecution of the former president?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I’ve been very concerned about politicization at the Justice Department for years, Major. Look, I- I lived through the Russia hoax. I mean, I had to deal with the Mueller investigation. I incurred more than $500,000 in legal fees responding to that investigation. I- I watched the Democrats impeach the president for a phone call. And then, and then I’ve just been- I’ve been deeply troubled to see the double standard between, you know, the way that the Justice Department has gone after the president, responded even in- with other Republicans and pro-life Americans and the way they seem to be- to take no interest in getting to the bottom of allegations of corruption around President Biden’s family. So I have deep concern about that. But look, I don’t want to prejudge this indictment. I don’t know whether the government has the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to support this case. The president is entitled to the presumption of innocence, but- but my concern about politicization at the Justice Department is the reason why I tell people everywhere I go, if I’m- if I’m the next president of the United States, we’re going to clean house at the Justice Department. We’re going to appoint men and women at the highest levels in- in- in the Justice Department in this country that will restore the confidence of the American people in equal treatment under the law. 

    MAJOR GARRETT: Mr. Vice President, tell me about these notes that the special prosecutor referred to in the indictment? Were those all the notes you took on all of your conversations with the former president at that time? Were you a note taker throughout your time as vice president? Did you hand them off to staff? Were these things you kept yourself? Tell me about the note- the note process?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I can tell you, Major, I have some limitations of what I can talk about relative to the grand jury, but, there was from time to time, particularly at important moments, I had a practice of scribbling a note or two on my calendar just to memorialize it and remember it and I did that in this case. I generally didn’t make a practice of taking notes in meetings over the four year period of time, but given the momentous events that were unfolding, I- I- I did take a few notes to remind myself of what had been said. And you know, from very early on, the very first time the president raised the issue with me, that I- that he was being told that I had the right to overturn the election, to reject or return votes, I told him, I knew I had no such authority. Look, I’m a student of American history. I knew the founders of this country would never have given any one person the right to choose what Electoral College votes to accept and which ones to reject. I was very consistent with the president about that and my recollections all reflect that, but you know, at- at the end of the day, the president continued to hold to that view, but I knew what my duty was. And as I said, by God’s grace, we did our duty on that fateful day.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Mr. Vice President, what do you believe the president’s state of mind was about whether he won or lost the 2020 election?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: You know, I really can’t say, I- I- I don’t know what was in his mind. And it seemed to me through all that period of time the- the president was intent as we all were in getting to the bottom of voting irregularities that had taken place. There were roughly a half a dozen states that had changed the rules in the name of COVID. And frankly, changed them in ways that could benefit Democrat candidates, but in more than 60 lawsuits, all of which I supported and in reviews at state levels, there was never any evidence of widespread fraud that would have changed the outcome of the election in any of those states. And at the end of the day, there was an opportunity to hear objections to those changes on the floor of the Congress, but in addition to the loss of life, the assault on police officers, the vandalism of the Capitol, one of the losses on January 6 was that debate, which could have happened on the floor of the Congress before the American people went by the boards. And so, you know, I really don’t know at the end of the day, what the president believed about the election, but for me, for my part, I knew that our duty was clear. That under the Constitution of the United States my job was to preside over a joint session of Congress, open and count the electoral votes, and we did our duty.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Did you ever hear the president say “I lost” or did you ever take part in a meeting where it was clear from other words that he spoke that he knew he had lost and was preparing to leave the White House?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE:  I remember one occasion before Christmas, where the president asked me what- what- what he thought we ought to do. We were just the two of us in the Oval Office, Major. And I- I remember, I looked at him and I said, look, let all the lawsuits play out, let the Congress do their work to consider objections, but I said at the end of the day, if the election goes the other way, I said we ought to take a bow, we ought to travel around the country. And I remember, I remember, the president is standing in front of his desk, listening very intently to me, and I’ll never forget the way he just kind of pointed at me as if to- as if to say, that’s worth thinking about. But I don’t know what was in his mind at the time. And for my part, it was always about just us going through the process. I mean, look, the peaceful transfer of power is one of the great traditions in the life of this country, where there are issues related to elections, we have courts to review them. We have procedures in states to review them and ultimately, the Congress can hear objections. We were working through that process. And I was determined to play my part to see it through.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Would you ever vote again for Donald Trump?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Look, I don’t think I’ll have to. I have to tell you everywhere I go–

    MAJOR GARRETT: –That wasn’t the question, Mr. Vice President, would you ever vote for Donald Trump again?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Yeah. Yeah, I know what your question is, but let me be very clear, I’m running for president because I don’t think anyone who ever puts himself over the Constitution should ever be president or should ever be president again. This country is in a lot of trouble. And we’ve got to get back to basics, we’ve got to get back to keeping faith of the Constitution, we’ve got to get back to the policies that will make our economy strong, that’ll secure our border, that’ll support our military, that’ll defend our liberties and our values that are under a steady assault by the Biden administration. And we’re going to work our hearts out to earn the right to be that standard bearer. And everywhere I go, the encouragement we receive, I’m more convinced than ever  that- that Republicans are not only going to- going to give us a great victory in the fall of 2024, but we’re gonna have new leadership in the Republican Party. And I’m gonna work my heart out to make sure it’s me.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Will the phrase “you’re too honest” be a referendum in this campaign?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I- you’d have to leave that to others, but the American people can always count on me being honest about where we are. I was in a barn this weekend in New Hampshire, and I looked at all of them and I said, I’m the guy talking about the national debt. We have the largest national debt since the end of World War II, it’s the size of our economy. And we’ve got–

    MAJOR GARRETT: –Mr. Vice President–

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: The American people long for leadership that will speak plainly and honestly with them about the challenges facing the country and how we bring America back. And I promise to be just that candidate.

    MAJOR GARRETT: But you know what I’m driving at, Mr. Vice President. That’s what President Trump said to you. You’re too honest. If no one is going to make it a referendum on his fitness for office, other than you, how is it going to become a referendum?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, well, let me say, I’ve been called worse, Major, so I’m never offended by people calling me an honest man. And I always aspire to that and aspire to that in my faith, as well, but look, I think there’s plenty, plenty of room, running room in this primary campaign. I gotta tell you, the people that are showing up at our town halls, showing up at living room meetings, I think people are ready for a change. And I, look, this is, this election is going to be a referendum on Joe Biden. This election needs to be a referendum on the failed policies of the Biden administration that have weakened America at home and abroad. And I’m confident that Republican primary voters here in the first in the nation primary state are gonna give us a standard bearer that will focus this election on the failed policies of Joe Biden and the Democrats in Washington. And they’re gonna carry us to a historic victory in 2024.

    MAJOR GARRETT:  Earlier this week, Mr. Vice President, the former president said he felt sorry for you. Do you want his pity?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I would tell you, I- I don’t want anything except a listening ear from every American. And I- I just have to tell you, Major, as I’ve traveled around the country the last two years, the American people have come alongside me at airports and at grocery stores again and again to give me a word of thanks and encouragement. So I- you know, I don’t know who the former president is talking to but this is a country that loves the Constitution. This is a country that knows we can do better than the failed policies of the Biden administration. I think that’s why so many people are going to our website, MikePence2024.com. They’re making a contribution, literally more than 1,000 people a day over the last week, that’s going to make it possible for us to be on that debate stage. It’s because they see in us the experience and the proven conservative leadership that can bring this country back.

    MAJOR GARRETT:  Have you qualified for the debate, Mr. Vice President with 40,000 unique donors?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, we’re getting real close, Major, I’ll tell you, I encourage people to head to that website. We obviously already qualify easily by the polling numbers, but I think the American people want to see the most experienced and proven conservative on that stage. And frankly, you know, I’m looking forward to the debate, not just with my former running mate, but with others in this party who are walking away from America’s historic commitment as leader of the free world, walking away from a commitment of fiscal responsibility and growth and even walking away from our commitment to the right to life. You know, I’m a- I’m an old Reagan conservative from way back and I just, I promise you that, when we’re on that stage, we’re going to take the case for that broad, mainstream conservative agenda that’s led our party to victory and our country to great prosperity and security in years past and will again in the years ahead. 

    MAJOR GARRETT: Before I let you go, Mr. Vice President, as I understand it, this is an honor system process with the 40,000 donors. No one at the Republican National Committee checks this evidence. Is that right?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, we’d be fully prepared to have them look at our list. You know, we, as I said, we’ve had people going to our website, and people have been donating–

     MAJOR GARRETT: –But nobody does, though. But nobody does, though.

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Yeah, yeah, we haven’t- we haven’t been handing out kickbacks or gift cards or soccer tickets. People are just- people are supporting us at MikePence2024.com because they believe in our commitment. They believe in our- our- our dedication to the broad conservative agenda and we’d be more than happy to have people take a look at that list, but I’m confident we’ll qualify, Major, and I’m looking forward to being in Milwaukee.

    MAJOR GARRETT: One last thing, do you believe the former president can receive a fair trial in the District of Columbia? 

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I- I- I would hope so, but I- I don’t want to prejudge the indictment or prejudge whether, whether the government can make their case. Look, the president’s entitled to a presumption of innocence and I- I have every confidence that- that he’ll make his case in court, but at the end of the day- at the end of the day, I’m gonna stay focused on where the American people are focused, but I- I’m also I’m never gonna waver in making it clear to people that whatever the outcome of this indictment and whatever it’s, you know, wherever it goes, I know I did my duty that day and I think- I think more and more Americans every day are recognizing that- that we kept our oath to the Constitution and if I have the great privilege of being president of the United States, they know that I always will.

    MAJOR GARRETT: Former Vice President Mike Pence, thank you for joining us.

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Thank you, Major.

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  • Trump heads to South Carolina after a week filled with his legal drama | CNN Politics

    Trump heads to South Carolina after a week filled with his legal drama | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former President Donald Trump is set to visit South Carolina on Saturday, wrapping up a week that has been defined by his historic third indictment.

    Trump’s Saturday trip to the early-primary state – he’ll visit Columbia, South Carolina, for the state GOP’s Silver Elephant Dinner – follows a Friday night stop in Alabama. The two were his first campaign events after his arraignment Thursday in Washington,DC, in special prosecutor Jack Smith’s investigation into his efforts to remain in the White House despite losing the 2020 election to President Joe Biden.

    In Montgomery on Friday night, Trump conflated his actions in seeking to overturn the 2020 election with those of Democrats, including Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Stacey Abrams after the 2018 Georgia gubernatorial election, in the wake of their losses. He said he faces “bogus charges.”

    He also said if he is elected in 2024, he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Biden’s family.

    “When they indicted their political opponent and they did that, I said, well, now the gloves are off,” Trump said of Biden. “The Republicans better get tough, and they better get smart, because most of them look like a bunch of weak jerks right now. … You have to fight fire with fire. You can’t allow this to go on.”

    Trump’s campaign on Friday went on the attack against the prosecutors who have brought cases against or are investigating the former president. It released a video attacking those prosecutors one day after Trump was arrested and arraigned for a third time.

    The video attacks Smith, New York Attorney General Letitia James, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney Fani Willis, dubbing the group the “Fraud Squad.”

    “Meet the cast of unscrupulous accomplices he’s assembled to get Trump,” the narrator says in the video of Biden.

    The video also uses footage of Biden falling off his bike and tripping up the stairs to Air Force One.

    Lashing out over the costs of defending himself and his allies in myriad legal battles, Trump also called for the Supreme Court to “intercede.”

    “CRAZY! My political opponent has hit me with a barrage of weak lawsuits, including D.A., A.G., and others, which require massive amounts of my time & money to adjudicate,” Trump complained on Truth Social. “Resources that would have gone into Ads and Rallies, will now have to be spent fighting these Radical Left Thugs in numerous courts throughout the Country. I am leading in all Polls, including against Crooked Joe, but this is not a level playing field. It is Election Interference, & the Supreme Court must intercede.”

    His campaign has used the legal proceedings as a fundraising tool, hauling in small-dollar donations.

    “Trump is in THE AIR!” his campaign said in an email to supporters Thursday. “Before he arrives at the courthouse for his hearing, can 10,000 pro-Trump patriots sign on to defend him & end the witch hunt?”

    A handful of GOP presidential candidates, including former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, former Texas Rep. Will Hurd and former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, have criticized Trump’s actions.

    Hurd, on Fox News on Thursday, said that Trump’s court appearance was the “third time in four months in courts. It’s unacceptable, we didn’t have to be here.”

    Former Vice President Mike Pence’s campaign is selling T-shirts and hats branded with the phrase “Too Honest,” referencing a phrase Trump allegedly uttered to Pence when he refused to go along with the then-president’s request to reject electoral votes and change the outcome of the 2020 election.

    According to the federal indictment, in one conversation on January 1, 2021, Trump told Pence he was “too honest” when the then-vice president said that he lacked the authority to change the results.

    After Trump was indicted earlier this week, Pence said that “anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president” and added that Trump “was surrounded by a group of crackpot lawyers who kept telling him what his itching ears wanted to hear.”

    However, much of the Republican field has so far refused to take aim at Trump over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election, which are at the heart of the federal charges he faces in Washington.

    Trump’s top-polling rival, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, on Friday said he would pardon Trump if he is elected in 2024. He also defended the former president, arguing that the laws federal prosecutors say Trump broke were “never intended to apply to this type of situation.”

    The Florida governor, who was campaigning in Iowa, told reporters his candidacy for president would be focused on the future and starting to heal “divisions in this country.”

    DeSantis indicated that he would pardon Trump if he were convicted, echoing comments he recently made on “Outkick” with Clay Travis.

    “I’ve said for many weeks now, I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the country to have a former president – that’s almost 80 years old – go to prison. Just like Nixon or Ford pardoned Nixon, you know, sometimes you got to put this stuff behind you,” he said.

    DeSantis’ comments underscored the reality that most of Trump’s 2024 GOP rivals see little to gain by angering a base that is still largely supportive of the former president.

    South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott on Friday criticized the Justice Department for the “weaponization of their power” in his first on-camera reaction to the third indictment and arraignment of Trump.

    Scott told reporters following an immigration roundtable event in Yuma, Arizona, he believes DOJ spends “a lot of time hunting Republicans” while protecting Democrats, specifically referencing the president’s son Hunter Biden.

    “My perspective is that the DOJ continues to weaponize their power against political opponents. It seems like they spend a lot of time protecting Hunter Biden and Democrats and a lot of time hunting Republicans,” Scott said.

    The most recent polls show that Trump remains the clear front-runner in the 2024 GOP primary. A poll of likely Republican caucusgoers in Iowa from The New York Times/Siena College released Friday showed Trump with 44% support, compared to DeSantis’ 20% and Scott’s 9%, with no other candidate topping 5%.

    His lead is even wider nationally. Trump holds the support of 54% of likely GOP primary voters, a New York Times/Siena College poll released earlier this week found, while DeSantis has 17% support and no other candidate exceeds 3%.

    Just 17% of likely Republican primary voters think that Trump has “committed any serious federal crimes,” and only 10% more say that although they don’t think he committed a serious crime, he “did something wrong in his handling of classified documents.” Three-quarters (75%) say that after the 2020 elections, Trump “was just exercising his right to contest the election,” while only 19% believe he “went so far that he threatened American democracy.” And 71% say that regarding the investigations Trump is facing, Republicans “need to stand behind Trump.”

    The Republican base could be at odds with the broader electorate: Two-thirds of Americans (65%) say that the charges Trump faces over efforts to overturn the 2020 elections are serious, according to a new poll from ABC News and Ipsos conducted after Trump’s latest indictment.

    There are broad partisan gaps in views of the seriousness of the new charges, with 91% of Democrats calling them serious along with 67% of independents, though just 38% of Republicans agree. The gap between Democrats and Republicans widens to 65 points when looking at those who call the charges “very serious” (84% of Democrats feel that way vs. 19% of Republicans; 53% of independents say the same).

    While many of Trump’s rivals are carefully avoiding direct confrontation with the former president, Trump is taking direct aim at DeSantis.

    Top Trump advisers Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita sent an open memo on Thursday attacking DeSantis’ efforts to reboot his campaign.

    “DeSantis’s campaign is marred by idiocy,” the memo reads, as it touts Trump’s lead in polls over his GOP rivals.

    The memo compared DeSantis’ campaign to Sen. John McCain’s 2008 bid and argued both campaigns overspent and didn’t fundraise enough. The late McCain and Trump had a bitter feud for years.

    “John McCain did not spend the opening week of his reboot explaining why his staff produced a video with Nazi imagery, and defending his comments that slavery provided ‘some benefit’ to enslaved Americans – while attacking black Republicans publicly in the process,” the memo reads, referencing several recent missteps DeSantis and his campaign have made.

    Developments on Capitol Hill also underscored that most of the GOP has not abandoned Trump.

    North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis, a member of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s Republican leadership team, on Thursday called on Congress to scrutinize the federal investigation into Trump’s actions.

    Tillis said in a statement that the new indictment carries “a heavy burden” to show that “criminal conduct actually occurred.”

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  • 21 Donald Trump election lies listed in his new indictment | CNN Politics

    21 Donald Trump election lies listed in his new indictment | CNN Politics

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    Washington
    CNN
     — 

    Special counsel Jack Smith said Tuesday that the January 6, 2021 attack on the US Capitol was “fueled by lies” told by former President Donald Trump. The indictment of Trump on four new federal criminal charges, all related to the former president’s effort to overturn his defeat in the 2020 election, lays out some of those lies one by one.

    Even in listing 21 lies, the 45-page indictment does not come close to capturing the entirety of Trump’s massive catalogue of false claims about the election. But the list is illustrative nonetheless – highlighting the breadth of election-related topics Trump was dishonest about, the large number of states his election dishonesty spanned, and, critically, his willingness to persist in privately and publicly making dishonest assertions even after they had been debunked to him directly.

    Here is the list of 21.

    1. The lie that fraud changed the outcome of the 2020 election, that Trump “had actually won,” and that the election was “stolen.” (Pages 1 and 40-41 of the indictment)

    Trump’s claim of a stolen election whose winner was determined by massive fraud was (and continues to be) his overarching lie about the election. The indictment asserts that Trump knew as early as 2020 that his narrative was false – and had been told as such by numerous senior officials in his administration and allies outside the federal government – but persisted in deploying it anyway, including on January 6 itself.

    2. The lie that fake pro-Trump Electoral College electors in seven states were legitimate electors. (Pages 5 and 26)

    The indictment alleges that Trump and his alleged co-conspirators “organized” the phony slates of electors and then “caused” the slates to be transmitted to Vice President Mike Pence and other government officials to try to get them counted on January 6, the day Congress met to count the electoral votes.

    3. The lie that the Justice Department had identified significant concerns that may have affected the outcome of the election. (Pages 6 and 27)

    Attorney General William Barr and other top Justice Department officials had told Trump that his claims of major fraud had proved to be untrue. But the indictment alleges that Trump still sought to have the Justice Department “make knowingly false claims of election fraud to officials in the targeted states through a formal letter under the Acting Attorney General’s signature, thus giving the Defendant’s lies the backing of the federal government and attempting to improperly influence the targeted states to replace legitimate Biden electors with the Defendant’s.”

    4. The lie that Pence had the power to reject Biden’s electoral votes. (Pages 6, 32-38)

    Pence had repeatedly and correctly told Trump that he did not have the constitutional or legal right to send electoral votes back to the states as Trump wanted. The indictment notes that Trump nonetheless repeatedly declared that Pence could do so – first in private conversations and White House meetings, then in tweets on January 5 and January 6, then in Trump’s January 6 speech in Washington at a rally before the riot – in which Trump, angry at Pence, allegedly inserted the false claim into his prepared text even after advisors had managed to temporarily get it removed.

    5. The lie that “the Vice President and I are in total agreement that the Vice President has the power to act.” (Page 36)

    The indictment alleges that the day before the riot, Trump “approved and caused” his campaign to issue a false statement saying Pence agreed with him about having the power to reject electoral votes – even though Trump knew, from a one-on-one meeting with Pence hours prior, that Pence continued to firmly disagree.

    6. The lie that Georgia had thousands of ballots cast in the names of dead people. (Pages 8 and 16)

    The indictment notes that Georgia’s top elections official – Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger – a republican – explained to Trump in a phone call on January 2, 2021 that this claim was false, but that Trump repeated it in his January 6 rally speech anyway. Raffensperger said in the phone call and then in a January 6 letter to Congress that just two potential dead-voter cases had been discovered in the state; Raffensperger said in late 2021 that the total had been updated and stood at four.

    7. The lie that Pennsylvania had 205,000 more votes than voters. (Pages 8 and 20)

    The indictment notes that Trump’s acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and acting deputy attorney general Richard Donoghue had both told him that this claim was false, but he kept making it anyway – including in the January 6 rally speech.

    8. The lie that there had been a suspicious “dump” of votes in Detroit, Michigan. (Pages 9 and 17)

    The indictment notes that Barr, the attorney general, told Trump on December 1, 2020 that this was false – as CNN and others had noted, supposedly nefarious “dumps” Trump kept talking about were merely ballots being counted and added to the public totals as normal – but that Trump still repeated the false claim in public remarks the next day. And Barr wasn’t the only one to try to dissuade Trump from this claim. The indictment also notes that Michigan’s Republican Senate majority leader, Mike Shirkey, had told Trump in an Oval Office meeting on November 20, 2020 that Trump had lost the state “not because of fraud” but because Trump had “underperformed with certain voter populations.”

    9. The lie that Nevada had tens of thousands of double votes and other fraud. (Page 9)

    The indictment notes that Nevada’s top elections official – Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske, also a Republican – had publicly posted a “Facts vs. Myths” document explaining that Nevada judges had rejected such claims.

    10. The lie that more than 30,000 non-citizens had voted in Arizona. (Pages 9 and 11)

    The indictment notes that Trump put the number at “over 36,000” in his January 6 speech – even though, the indictment says, his own campaign manager “had explained to him that such claims were false” and Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers, a Republican who had supported Trump in the election, “had issued a public statement that there was no evidence of substantial fraud in Arizona.”

    11. The lie that voting machines in swing states had switched votes from Trump to Biden. (Page 9)

    This is a reference to false conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Systems machines, which Trump kept repeating long after it was thoroughly debunked by his own administration’s election cybersecurity security arm and many others. The indictment says, “The Defendant’s Attorney General, Acting Attorney General, and Acting Deputy Attorney General all had explained to him that this was false, and numerous recounts and audits had confirmed the accuracy of voting machines.”

    12. The lie that Dominion machines had been involved in “massive election fraud.” (Page 12)

    The indictment notes that Trump, on Twitter, promoted a lawsuit filed by an alleged co-conspirator, whom CNN has identified as lawyer Sidney Powell, that alleged “massive election fraud” involving Dominion – even though, the indictment says, Trump privately acknowledged to advisors that the claims were “unsupported” and told them Powell sounded “crazy.”

    13. The lie that “a substantial number of non-citizens, non-residents, and dead people had voted fraudulently in Arizona.” (Page 10)

    The indictment alleges that Trump and an alleged co-conspirator, whom CNN has identified as former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, made these baseless claims on a November 22, 2020 phone call with Bowers; the indictment says Giuliani never provided evidence and eventually said, at a December 1, 2020 meeting with Bowers, “words to the effect of, ‘We don’t have the evidence, but we have lots of theories.”

    14. The lie that Fulton County, Georgia elections workers had engaged in “ballot stuffing.” (Pages 13 and 14)

    This is the long-debunked lie – which Trump has continued to repeat in 2023 – that a video had caught two elections workers in Atlanta breaking the law. The workers were simply doing their jobs, and, as the indictment notes, they were cleared of wrongdoing by state officials in 2020 – but Trump continued to make the claims even after Raffensperger and Justice Department officials directly and repeatedly told him they were unfounded.

    15. The lie that thousands of out-of-state voters cast ballots in Georgia. (Page 16)

    The indictment notes that Trump made this claim on his infamous January 2, 2021 call with Raffensperger, whose staff responded that the claim was inaccurate. An official in Raffensberger’s office explained to Trump that the voters in question had authentically moved back to Georgia and legitimately cast ballots.

    16. The lie that Raffensperger “was unwilling, or unable,” to address Trump’s claims about a “‘ballots under table’ scam, ballot destruction, out of state ‘voters’, dead voters, and more.” (Page 16)

    In fact, contrary to this Trump tweet the day after the call, Raffensperger and his staff had addressed and debunked all of these false Trump claims.

    17. The lie that there was substantial fraud in Wisconsin and that the state had tens of thousands of unlawful votes. (Page 21)

    False and false. But the indictment notes that Trump made the vague fraud claim in a tweet on December 21, 2020, after the state Supreme Court upheld Biden’s win, and repeated the more specific claim about tens of thousands of unlawful votes in the January 6 speech.

    18. The lie that Wisconsin had more votes counted than it had actual voters. (Page 21)

    This, like Trump’s similar claim about Pennsylvania, is not true. But the indictment alleges that Trump raised the claim in a December 27, 2020 conversation with acting attorney general Rosen and acting deputy attorney general Donoghue, who informed him that it was false.

    19. The lie that the election was “corrupt.” (Page 28)

    The indictment alleges that when acting attorney general Rosen told Trump on the December 27, 2020 call that the Justice Department couldn’t and wouldn’t change the outcome of the election, Trump responded, “Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.” (Deputy attorney general Donoghue memorialized the reported Trump remark in his handwritten notes, which CNN reported on in 2021 and which were subsequently published by the House committee that investigated the Capitol riot.)

    20. The lie that Trump won every state by hundreds of thousands of votes. (Page 34)

    The indictment says that, at a January 4, 2021 meeting intended to convince Pence to unlawfully reject Biden’s electoral votes and send them back to swing-state legislatures, Pence took notes describing Trump as saying, “Bottom line-won every state by 100,000s of votes.” This was, obviously, false even if Trump was specifically talking about swing states won by Biden rather than every state in the nation.

    21. The lie that Pennsylvania “want[s] to recertify.” (Page 38)

    Trump made this false claim in his January 6 speech. In reality, some Republican state legislators in Pennsylvania had expressed a desire to at least delay the congressional affirmation of Biden’s victory – but the state’s Democratic governor and top elections official, who actually had election certification power in the state, had no desire to recertify Biden’s legitimate win.

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  • Mike Pence seeks to assure donors he will qualify for RNC debates

    Mike Pence seeks to assure donors he will qualify for RNC debates

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    Former Vice President Mike Pence sought to assure major campaign donors on a Zoom call Wednesday afternoon that he will qualify for the Republican National Committee debate stage in three weeks, as he struggles to reach the donation threshold. 

    “We’re not there yet,” Pence admitted on the call with about 50 donors. “Even $1 from friends or adult family members will help us reach that goal just a little bit quicker.”

    In order to qualify for the first debate, coming up on Aug. 23, candidates seeking the Republican presidential nomination must meet fundraising and polling requirements, registering at least 1% support in three national polls or 1% in two national polls and in two early-state polls from separate states that are recognized by the RNC.

    Pence cleared the polling threshold. However, the RNC also requires “a minimum of 40,000 unique donors to candidate’s principal presidential campaign committee (or exploratory committee), with at least 200 unique donors per state or territory in 20+ states and/or territories.” 

    The campaign assesses it has “well over 30,000 donors,” and has been averaging “more than 1,000 new donors every day.” 

    The former vice president told donors that his campaign is confident they will reach the donor threshold within the next seven to 10 days. 

    Presidential Candidate Mike Pence Attends GOP Hog Roast In Iowa
    Mike Pence speaks at the Clinton County GOP Hog Roast on July 30, 2023, in Clinton, Iowa. 

    / Getty Images


    The first debate, hosted by Fox News, will be held in in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So far, seven other GOP contenders have qualified for the debate stage. 

    Former President Donald Trump, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley have all met the requirements, although Trump has not confirmed if he plans to participate.

    Pence’s team is also confident that his donation spree will qualify him for the second debate on Sept. 27 at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. The RNC elevated the qualifications for that entry significantly, requiring at least 50,000 unique donors. 

    Candidates must also sign a pledge committing support to the eventual GOP nominee and agreeing not to participate in any non-RNC-sanctioned debates. 

    On the call with supporters, Pence also addressed the latest indictment against his former running mate and current rival, Donald Trump. Trump was charged Tuesday with four federal counts related to alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. 

    “I know by God’s grace on that tragic day of January 6 that I did my duty under the Constitution and the laws of this country,” Pence said. “I said again today that President Trump was wrong when he demanded that I put him over my oath to the Constitution. I’ll never waver in that.” 

    “Anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president,” Pence said, adding that he hoped “it wouldn’t come to this.” 

    Pence told donors that he has “real differences” with Trump and others on the debate stage, including his support for sending military assistance to Ukraine amid Russia’s invasion, and what Pence called “common-sense reforms of entitlements for younger Americans.” 

    “Donald Trump’s position is identical to Joe Biden’s; he won’t even talk about common-sense reforms of Social Security and Medicare for younger Americans and frankly, on the right to life,” Pence said. 

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  • Fact check: Trump falsely claims polls show his Black support has quadrupled or quintupled since his mug shot | CNN Politics

    Fact check: Trump falsely claims polls show his Black support has quadrupled or quintupled since his mug shot | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former President Donald Trump falsely claimed Wednesday that polls show his support among Black Americans has quadrupled or quintupled since his mug shot was released.

    The booking photo was taken on August 24, when Trump was arrested in Fulton County, Georgia, on charges connected to his efforts to overturn his defeat in the state in the 2020 election.

    On Wednesday, Trump claimed in a falsehood-filled interview with conservative commentator Hugh Hewitt that “many Democrats” will be voting for him in the 2024 election because they agree with him that the criminal charges against him in four cases are unfair. He then made this assertion: “The Black community is so different for me in the last – since that mug shot was taken, I don’t know if you’ve seen the polls; my polls with the Black community have gone up four and five times.”

    Facts First: National public polls do not show anything close to an increase of “four and five times” in Black support for Trump since his mug shot was taken, either in a race against President Joe Biden or in his own favorability rating; Trump’s campaign did not respond to CNN’s request to identify any poll that corroborates Trump’s claim. Most polls conducted after the release of the mug shot did find a higher level of Black support for Trump than he had in previous polls – but the increases were within the polls’ margins of error, not massive spikes, so it’s not clear whether there was a genuine improvement or the bump was just statistical noise. In addition, one poll found a decline in Trump’s strength with Black voters in a race against Biden, while another found a decline in his favorability with Black respondents even as he improved in a race against Biden.

    Because Black adults make up a relatively small share of the overall population, they tend to have small sample sizes in national public polls. That means the margins of error for this group are big and the results tend to bounce around from poll to poll. And even if Trump’s recent polling improvement captures a real change in voter sentiment, there is no evidence that change has anything to do with his mug shot, which no poll asked about; it could just as well have to do with, say, the summer increase in the price of gas or any of numerous other factors affecting perceptions of Biden.

    Regardless, Trump greatly exaggerated the size of the recent uptick seen in some polls. Here’s a look at what polls actually show about his recent standing with the Black population, plus a fact check of three of Trump’s many other false claims from the Hewitt interview.

    CNN identified five national public polls that: 1) included data on Black respondents in particular; 2) were conducted after Trump’s mug shot was released on August 24; 3) were conducted by pollsters who had also released polls in the recent past.

    Four of the polls showed gains for Trump among Black respondents, though much smaller gains than the quadrupling or quintupling he claimed to Hewitt.

    Trump gained 3 percentage points with Black respondents in polling by The Economist and YouGov, though within the margin of error – going from 17% against Biden in mid-August to 20% in late August. (The earlier poll asked the Trump-versus-Biden question of Black adults regardless of whether they are registered to vote, while the later poll asked the question to Black registered voters, so the results might not be directly comparable.) At the same time, Trump’s favorability with Black respondents was down 9 percentage points to 18%.

    Trump gained 3 percentage points with Black registered voters between a Messenger/Harris X poll in early July and a survey by the same pollster in late August, edging up from 22% against Biden to 25%. Trump gained 6 percentage points among Black adults in polling by the firm Premise, going from 12% against Biden in an Aug. 17-21 poll to 18% in an Aug. 30-Sept. 5 poll. He gained 8 percentage points among Black registered voters in polling by Republican firm Echelon Insights, going from 14% against Biden in late July to 22% in late August. Based on the sample sizes reported for Black respondents in each poll, all of those changes are within the margin of error.

    One of the five polls, by Emerson College, showed Trump’s standing with Black registered voters worsening after the mug shot was released, though this change was also within the margin of error. In Emerson’s mid-August poll, Trump had about 27% Black support in a race against Biden; in its late-August poll, he had about 19% support.

    In addition to looking at those five polls, we contacted The Wall Street Journal about an Aug. 24-30 poll, conducted jointly by Republican and Democratic pollsters, for which the newspaper has not yet released detailed demographic-by-demographic results. Aaron Zitner, a Journal reporter and editor who works on the poll, told us that Trump’s level of support with Black voters “didn’t change at all” between the paper’s April poll and this new poll, though Biden’s standing declined slightly within the margin of error.

    Exit polls estimated that Trump received 12% of the Black vote in the 2020 election. A post-election Pew Research Center analysis found that he received 8%.

    Mike Pence’s standing in 2016

    Trump made another false polling-related claim to Hewitt.

    This one was about how Mike Pence, Trump’s former vice president and his current opponent for the Republican nomination, had performed in polls during his 2016 campaign for reelection as governor of Indiana. Pence ceased his Indiana campaign when Trump selected him as his running mate in July 2016.

    Trump said Wednesday: “I’m disappointed in Mike Pence, because I took Mike from the garbage heap. He was going to lose. You know, he was running for governor, reelection. He was running for governor again, to continue his term, and he was absolutely, you know – he was down by 10 or 15 points.”

    Facts First: Trump’s claim that Pence was trailing by “10 or 15 points” in his 2016 race is false. It’s true that Pence had faced a tough battle for reelection as governor before he ended the campaign to run nationally with Trump, but no public poll had shown him down big.

    A May 2016 poll (commissioned by a Republican group that was founded by an opponent of Pence’s right-wing stance on gay rights and other issues) had showed Pence with 40% support and his Democratic opponent, John Gregg, with 36% support; the Indianapolis Star called this a “virtual dead heat” because of the poll’s margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points, but nonetheless, Pence certainly wasn’t “down by 10 or 15 points” like Trump said. An April 2016 poll had showed Pence with 49% support to Gregg’s 45%, again within the margin of error but not with Pence trailing.

    “There would not be any poll that would show Pence down 10-15 points to John Gregg at that time or frankly at any point even if Pence had stayed for the reelection campaign,” Christine Matthews, the president of Bellwether Research & Consulting and a Republican pollster who conducted surveys during that 2016 race in Indiana, including the May 2016 poll mentioned above, told CNN on Wednesday. Matthews said Pence could possibly have lost the race if he had remained in it, “but no poll would have shown him down by 10-15 points in that process.”

    Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina in 2020

    Trump repeated his usual lies about the 2020 election – saying, among other things, that “it was rigged and stolen.” In support of those lies, he said: “One of the top people in Alabama said you don’t win Alabama by 45 points or whatever it is I won, and then win South Carolina in a record, nobody’s ever gotten that many votes, and then you lose Georgia by just a couple of votes. It doesn’t work that way.”

    Facts First: Trump hedged his claim that he won Alabama by “45 points,” adding the “whatever it is I won,” but the “45 points” claim is not even close to correct no matter what “one of the top people” told him; he won Alabama by about 25.5 percentage points in 2020. He lost Georgia by far more than “just a couple of votes”; it was 11,779 votes. And while he did earn a record number of votes in South Carolina, he did not win the state with anything close to a “record” margin of victory; his roughly 11.7-point margin in 2020 was about 2.6 points smaller than his own margin in 2016 and also smaller than the margins earned by numerous previous winners.

    In addition, Trump’s claim that “it doesn’t work that way” – winning some states big while losing a nearby state – is also baseless. Even neighboring states are not the same. Georgia, which Trump lost fair and square, has key demographic and social differences from South Carolina and Alabama, as we explained in a previous fact check.

    Polls and election results weren’t the only things Trump exaggerated about in the interview.

    He invoked the price of bacon while criticizing the Biden administration for speaking positively about the state of inflation, which has declined sharply over the last year but remains elevated. “They try and say, ‘Oh, inflation’s wonderful.’ What about for the last three years, where bacon is five times higher than it was just a few years ago?”

    Facts First: Trump’s claim that the price of bacon has quintupled over the last few years is grossly inaccurate. The average price of bacon is higher than it was three years ago, but it is nowhere near “five times higher.” The average price for a pound of sliced bacon was $6.236 per pound in July 2023, up from $5.776 in July 2020, according to federal data – an increase of about 8%, nowhere near the 400% increase Trump claimed.

    You can come up with a larger percentage increase if you start the clock at a different point in 2020; for example, the July 2023 average price is a 13.4% increase from the February 2020 average price. But even that larger increase is way smaller than Trump claimed.

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  • Pence intensifies attacks on Trump as GOP primary heats up | CNN Politics

    Pence intensifies attacks on Trump as GOP primary heats up | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Former Vice President Mike Pence on Sunday intensified his attacks on his former boss, hitting former President Donald Trump over everything from his abortion messaging to comments about the war in Ukraine.

    “When Donald Trump ran for president in 2016, he promised to govern as a conservative. For four years, we did govern as conservatives, but, today, Donald Trump makes no such promise,” Pence told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union.”

    “He’s embracing the politics of appeasement on the world stage, walking away from our role as leader of the free world. He’s willing to ignore the debt crisis facing Americans. And he wants to marginalize the right to life,” Pence said.

    The comments from Pence represent a significant escalation in his campaign attacks on Trump. While the former Indiana governor has repeatedly denounced Trump’s actions on January 6, 2021, he has been more cautious about going after the Republican front-runner on other issues.

    Asked about Trump’s comments to NBC that he would get Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in a room and “have a deal worked out,” Pence said: “Look, the only way this war would end in a day, as my former running mate says, is if you let Vladimir Putin have what he wants, which, frankly, other candidates for the Republican nomination are advocating as well.”

    Pence similarly sought to distance himself from Trump on abortion at the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition’s fall banquet Saturday night. Speaking to a friendly crowd of evangelical conservatives, Pence reiterated his support for a federal ban on abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy as a minimum, saying, “It’s an idea whose time has come.” Pence said Trump and other GOP candidates want to relegate the abortion issue to the states, “but I won’t have it.”

    And earlier this month, Pence called on his party to turn away from what he described as a growing threat of populism led by Trump and “his imitators.” The former vice president said that Trump often sounds “like an echo” of President Joe Biden and that Trump was ignoring a coming US debt crisis.

    The stream of attacks comes as Trump continues to hold what has proven to be an unshakeable position atop the Republican field of candidates vying to take on Biden next year, according to a CNN poll released earlier this month.

    More than 4 in 10 in the potential GOP primary electorate say they have definitely decided to support Trump for the nomination (43% are definite Trump backers, 20% are firmly behind another candidate, and 37% have no first choice or say they could change their minds).

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  • Trump seeks to steer attention away from first 2024 GOP debate as rivals make final preparations for Milwaukee | CNN Politics

    Trump seeks to steer attention away from first 2024 GOP debate as rivals make final preparations for Milwaukee | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    The front-runner for the 2024 Republican nomination is not only skipping the first presidential primary debate of the season – he’s also attempting to wrest the spotlight away from the stage in Milwaukee.

    With the Republican National Committee’s window to meet fundraising and polling requirements having closed Monday night, the debate stage is set, and the GOP contenders vying to become the party’s top alternative to former President Donald Trump are making their final preparations ahead of what will be among the most-watched moments in many of their political careers. As his rivals prepare for the two-hour showdown on Fox News, Trump’s campaign is attempting to counter-program the debate.

    The first debate, a key moment in any presidential primary, is also taking place in the middle of a week in which Trump’s legal troubles will once again take center stage.

    Trump has already taped an interview with Tucker Carlson, the fired former Fox News host, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN Monday. It is unclear what platform the interview with Carlson will be published on. The sources said that it would be released around the time of the debate Wednesday night.

    The former president, who on Sunday said he will skip the first debate and could skip others, is expected to spend Wednesday evening at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

    But Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. and other surrogates planned to travel to Milwaukee, where they would have had opportunities to weigh in on national broadcasts before and after the debate in the spin room.

    However, Fox News informed the Trump campaign on Monday that they will no longer provide credentials to some surrogates of the former president to attend the spin room at the debate since the former president is not participating in the debate, three sources with direct knowledge of the matter told CNN.

    Some of Trump’s surrogates are credentialed through outside media groups and will not be impacted. Former Arizona gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake, Reps. Byron Donalds and Matt Gaetz of Florida and other Republicans are slated to attend the debate.

    Members of Trump’s campaign, including his senior advisers Jason Miller, Steven Cheung and Chris LaCivita, were also planning on being in the spin room.

    While Fox News is in charge of credentials for the spin room, the RNC manages credentials for the actual debate, and sources said those tickets are still expected be honored.

    Members of Trump’s teams and his surrogates, however, are still planning on traveling to Milwaukee and are working on a resolution with the network as well as the RNC, two Trump advisers told CNN.

    Fox News did not immediately respond to CNN’s request for comment.

    Ahead of the debate, some candidates are offering previews of their lines of attack – including criticizing Trump for choosing not to participate.

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Monday said Trump “owes it to people” to debate, arguing voters – even those who appreciate the former president’s record – will be angry over his decision to skip the the first showdown.

    “I don’t think they’re going to look kindly on somebody that thinks they don’t have to earn it,” DeSantis said on Fox News.

    Trump, though, is poised to once again seize headlines this week with new developments in his legal troubles stemming from the former president’s efforts to overturn the outcome of the 2020 election.

    In an election subversion case in Georgia, Trump has agreed to a $200,000 bond and other release conditions after his lawyers met with the Fulton County district attorney’s office on Monday, according to court documents reviewed by CNN.

    Trump will turn himself in Thursday in Fulton County, the former president announced on his social media platform Monday.

    With Trump out, DeSantis – who has consistently polled in second place nationally and in early-voting states – could be positioned to face the sharpest scrutiny Wednesday night, as other contenders seek to replace him as the party’s top alternative to Trump.

    “We’ll be ready,” DeSantis said Monday. “I think that with Donald Trump not being there, I don’t think it’s any secret that I’m going to be probably the guy that people are going to come after.”

    The Florida governor also continued to distance himself from a memo from the super PAC Never Back Down, which last week advised him to “hammer” entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and defend Trump if he is attacked by former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie.

    “That’s a separate entity. I had nothing to do with it. It’s not something that I’ve read, and it’s not, not reflective of my strategy,” DeSantis said Monday.

    However, DeSantis has unusually close ties with the super PAC. He has outsourced many typical campaign functions, including early-state organizing, to the super PAC, which can raise and spend unlimited sums. DeSantis frequently appears at events as a “special guest” of the super PAC.

    Other candidates plot their strategies

    Ramaswamy, the 38-year-old entrepreneur who has risen in polling in recent weeks, appears to have become a significant factor in the race in his rivals’ eyes.

    Another contender, Nikki Haley, the former South Carolina governor and US ambassador to the United Nations under Trump, attacked Ramaswamy on Monday, in a potential preview of a debate-stage showdown.

    Haley said Ramaswamy is “completely wrong” for his call to reduce US military aid to Israel. During an interview with Russell Brand on Rumble last week, Ramaswamy claimed he would cut off additional aid to Israel in 2028, after the current $38 billion US aid package expires.

    “This is part of a pattern with Vivek—his foreign policies have a common theme: they make America less safe,” Haley said on Twitter.

    Ramaswamy, for his part, tweeted a video of himself, shirtless, practicing tennis. “Three hours of solid debate prep this morning,” he said.

    One key wild card Wednesday night is Christie. He is the only contender on stage who has run against Trump before, and has proven lethal on the debate stage previously: In February 2016, he effectively stymied all momentum of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio when he mocked Rubio for delivering memorized, pre-planned lines.

    Since launching his 2024 bid, Christie has focused most of his attacks on Trump. But as he campaigned in Miami last week, he also criticized DeSantis, pointing to the super PAC memo.

    “The only way to beat someone is to beat them. If [DeSantis] thinks he’s gonna get on the stage and defend Donald Trump on Wednesday night, then he should do Donald Trump a favor and do our party a favor, come back to Tallahassee, endorse Donald Trump, and get the hell out of the race,” Christie said.

    South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, a strong fundraiser who many within the GOP see as an increasing factor in the race, has largely stuck to a positive and optimistic message, making Wednesday night a test of whether and how he is willing to mix it up with his rivals.

    Former Vice President Mike Pence has emphasized his conservative positions on ideological issues like abortion. But he had also looked for a debate-stage clash with Trump, his former running mate. On Sunday, he criticized the former president on ABC for skipping the first debate.

    “Every one of us who have qualified for that debate stage ought to be on the stage willing to square off and answer those tough questions,” Pence said.

    As the first debate approaches, polls of likely Republican voters nationally and of those in the early-voting states – Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada – have consistently shown Trump well ahead of his rivals at this stage of the race.

    Trump held a clear lead over his rivals in a Des Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom poll of likely Iowa GOP caucusgoers released Monday, though just over half say they are not locked in to their choice and could be persuaded to support someone else.

    Overall, 42% say Trump is their first choice, followed by 19% supporting DeSantis. No other candidate reaches double digits. Behind them, 9% back Scott, 6% each back Haley and Pence, 5% support Christie, 4% back Ramaswamy, 2% back North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum, and 1% support former Texas Rep. Will Hurd, with the rest of the field tested landing below 1%.

    About two-thirds say they have favorable impressions of DeSantis (66%) and Trump (65%), with majorities also expressing positive views of Scott (59%) and Haley (53%). Views of Christie (60% unfavorable to 28% favorable) and Pence (53% unfavorable to 42% favorable) break negative. Many of the other candidates have low name recognition, with four in 10 or more not sure about them.

    About half, 52%, of likely caucusgoers say they could be persuaded to support someone other than their first choice candidate, while 40% say their minds are made up. Trump’s supporters are more likely to be locked in (66% say so), yet a third say they could be persuaded to back someone else (34%). Among those backing a candidate other than Trump, 69% say they could be persuaded to support someone else, and 31% say that their mind is made up.

    The poll was conducted by Selzer and Co. August 13-17 among a random sample of 406 likely Republican caucusgoers in Iowa. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.9 percentage points.

    New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu, who considered his own presidential run before passing earlier this year, said Monday on CNN’s “Inside Politics” that the GOP primary field needs to narrow before the race reaches the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary.

    He said candidates who are mired in the low-single digits in the polls by early December should drop out.

    “By New Hampshire you need three or four candidates in the race to really make it, you know, a real opportunity and an option for the Republican voter,” he said.

    And Sununu dismissed Trump’s steady national polling leads, saying that his lead would fall “as we get around to Christmas,” while pointing to early state polls, where the former president still leads, though by a smaller margin.

    “Trump is really dominating the national media airwaves. It’s not shocking that he’s there,” he said. “But as the debates start, as people get more and more into that conversation in October, November, as we get around to Christmas, I think nationally his numbers come back down to what you see in Iowa and New Hampshire.”

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  • Takeaways from the second Republican presidential debate | CNN Politics

    Takeaways from the second Republican presidential debate | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    The second 2024 Republican presidential primary debate ended just as it began: with former President Donald Trump – who hasn’t yet appeared alongside his rivals onstage – as the party’s dominant front-runner.

    The seven GOP contenders in Wednesday night’s showdown at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California provided a handful of memorable moments, including former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley unloading what often seemed like the entire field’s pent-up frustration with entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy.

    “Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say,” she said to him at one point.

    Two candidates criticized Trump’s absence, as well. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said he was “missing in action.” Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie called the former president “Donald Duck” and said he “hides behind his golf clubs” rather than defending his record on stage.

    Chris Christie takes up debate time to send Trump a clear message

    The GOP field also took early shots at President Joe Biden. South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott said Biden, rather than joining the striking auto workers’ union on the picket line Tuesday in Michigan, should be on the southern border. Former Vice President Mike Pence said Biden should be “on the unemployment line.” North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum said Biden was interfering with “free markets.”

    However, what played out in the debate, hosted by Fox Business Network and Univision, is unlikely to change the trajectory of a GOP race in which Trump has remained dominant in national and early-state polling.

    And the frequently messy, hard-to-track crosstalk could have led many viewers to tune out entirely.

    Here are takeaways from the second GOP primary debate:

    Trump might have played it safe by skipping the debates and taking a running-as-an-incumbent approach to the 2024 GOP primary.

    It’s hard to see, though, how he would pay a significant price in the eyes of the party’s voters for missing Wednesday night’s messy engagement.

    Trump’s rivals took a few shots at him. DeSantis knocked him for deficit spending. Christie mocked him during the night’s early moments, calling him “Donald Duck” for skipping the debate and then in his final comments said he would vote Trump off the GOP island.

    “This guy has not only divided our party – he’s divided families all over this country. He’s divided friends all over this country,” Christie said. “He needs to be voted off the island and he needs to be taken out of this process.”

    However, Trump largely escaped serious scrutiny of his four years in the Oval Office from a field of rivals courting voters who have largely positive views of his presidency.

    “Tonight’s GOP debate was as boring and inconsequential as the first debate, and nothing that was said will change the dynamics of the primary contest,” Trump campaign senior adviser Chris LaCivita said in a statement.

    The second GOP primary debate was beset by interruptions, crosstalk and protracted squabbles between the candidates and moderators over speaking time.

    That’s tough for viewers trying to make sense of it all but even worse for these candidates as they attempted to stand out as viable alternatives to the absentee Trump.

    Further complicating the matter, some of the highest polling candidates after Trump – DeSantis and Haley – were among those least willing to dive into the muck, especially during the crucial first hour. The moderators repeatedly tried to clear the road for the Florida governor, at least in the beginning. But he was all but absent from the proceedings for the first 15 minutes.

    Ramaswamy fared somewhat better, speaking louder – and faster – than most of his rivals. But he was bogged down repeatedly when caught between his own talking points and cross-volleys of criticisms from frustrated candidates like Scott.

    The moderator group will likely get criticism for losing control of the room within the first half-hour, but even a messy debate tells voters something about the people taking part.

    All night, Scott seemed like he was looking for a fight with somebody and he finally got that when he set his sights on fellow South Carolinian Haley.

    He began his line of attack – which Haley interjected with a “Bring it” – by accusing her of spending $50,000 on curtains in a $15 million subsidized location during her time as the US ambassador to the United Nations.

    What ensued was the two Republicans going back and forth about the curtains. “Do your homework, Tim, because Obama bought those curtains,” Haley said, while Scott repeated, “Did you send them back? Did you send them back?” Haley then responded: “Did you send them back? You’re the one who works in Congress.”

    It wasn’t the most acrimonious moment of the night, but it was up there. The feuding between the two South Carolina natives seemed deep, but it’s worth remembering that about a decade ago, when Haley was governor, she appointed Scott to the Senate seat he currently holds after Republican Jim DeMint stepped down. That confidence in Scott seems to have dissolved in this presidential race.

    Confronted by his Republican competitors for the first time in earnest, DeSantis delivered an uneven performance from the center of the stage – a spot that is considerably less secure than it was heading into the first debate in Milwaukee.

    Despite rules that allowed candidates to respond if they were invoked, DeSantis let Fox slip to commercial break when Pence seemed to blame the governor for a jury decision to award a life sentence, not the death penalty, to the mass murderer in the Parkland high school shooting. (DeSantis opposed the decision and championed a law that made Florida the state with the lowest threshold to put someone on death row going forward.) Nor did he respond when Pence accused DeSantis of inflating Florida’s budget by 30% during his tenure.

    He later let Scott get the last word on Florida’s Black history curriculum standards and struggled to defend himself when Haley – accurately – pointed out that he took steps to block fracking in Florida on his second day in office.

    Before the first debate in Milwaukee, a top strategist for a pro-DeSantis super PAC told donors that “79% of the people tonight are going to watch the debate and turn it off after 19 minutes.”

    By that measure, the Florida governor managed to first speak Wednesday night just in the nick of time – 16 minutes into the debate. And when he finally spoke, he continued the sharper attacks on the GOP front-runner that he has previewed in recent weeks.

    DeSantis equated Trump’s absence in California to Biden, who DeSantis said was “completely missing in action for leadership” on the economy, blaming him for inflation and the autoworkers strike.

    “And you know who else is missing in action? Donald Trump is missing in action,” DeSantis said. “He should be on this stage tonight. He owes it to you to defend his record.”

    But DeSantis then largely pulled back from further targeting Trump – until a post-debate Fox News appearance when he challenged the former president to a one-on-one face-off.

    DeSantis ended the debate on a strong note. He took charge by rejecting moderator Dana Perino’s attempts to get the candidates to vote one of their competitors “off the island.” He ended his night forcefully dismissing a suggestion that Trump’s lead in the polls held meaning in September.

    “Polls don’t elect presidents, voters elect presidents,” he said, before pointing a finger at Trump for Republicans’ electoral underperformance in the last three elections.

    But as the super PAC strategist previously pointed out: By then, who was watching?

    In the final minutes of the debate, co-host Ilia Calderón of Univision asked Pence how he would reach out to those Latino voters who felt the Republican Party was hostile or didn’t care about them.

    “I’m incredibly proud of the tax cut and tax reform bill,” he said, referring to Republicans’ sweeping 2017 tax law. He also cited low unemployment rates for Hispanic Americans recorded during the Trump-Pence administration.

    Scott, faced with the same question, said it was important to lead by example. “My chief of staff is the only Hispanic female chief of staff in the Senate,” he said. “I hired her because she was the best, highest-qualified person we have.”

    Calderón focused much of her time on a series of policy questions that highlighted the candidates’ records on immigration and gun violence. At times, some of them struggled to respond directly.

    She asked Pence if he would work with Congress to find a permanent solution for people who were brought to the country illegally as children. The Trump-Pence administration ended the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which gave those young people protected status. She repeated the question after Pence focused his answer on his work securing the border. He then talked about his time in Congress.

    “Let me tell you, I served in Congress for 12 years, although it seemed longer,” he said. “But you know, something I’ve done different than everybody on this stage is I’ve actually secured reform in Congress.”

    The candidates – and moderators – shy away from abortion talk

    It took more than a 100 minutes on Wednesday night for the first question on abortion to be asked.

    About five minutes later, the conversation had moved on. What is potentially the most potent driver (or flipper) of votes in the coming election was afforded less time than TikTok.

    Tellingly, no one onstage seemed to mind.

    Perino introduced the subject by asking DeSantis whether some Republicans were right to worry that the electoral backlash to abortion bans – or the prospect of their passage – would handicap the eventual GOP nominee.

    DeSantis, who signed a six-week ban in April, dismissed those concerns, pointing to his success in traditionally liberal parts of Florida on his way to winning a second term in 2022. Then he swiped at Trump for calling the new laws “a terrible thing and a terrible mistake.”

    Christie took a similar path, arguing that his two terms as governor of New Jersey, a traditionally blue state, showed it was possible for anti-abortion leaders to win in a environments supportive of abortion rights.

    And with that, the abortion “debate” in Simi Valley ended abruptly. No more questions and no attempts by the rest of the candidates to interject or otherwise join the chat.

    Candidates pile on Ramaswamy

    Some of the candidates onstage didn’t want to have a repeat of the first debate, in which Ramaswamy managed to stand out as a formidable debater and showman.

    Early in Wednesday’s debate, Scott went after the tech entrepreneur, saying his business record included ties to the Chinese Communist Party and money going to Hunter Biden. The visibly annoyed Ramaswamy shifted gears from praising all the other candidates onstage to defending his business record. But Scott and Ramaswamy ended up talking over each other.

    A little later on Pence began an answer with a knock on Ramaswamy, saying, “I’m glad Vivek pulled out of his business deal in China.” At another point after Ramaswamy had responded to a question about his use of TikTok, Haley jumped in, saying, “Every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber from what you say” and then going on to say, “We can’t trust you. We can’t trust you.” As Ramaswamy tried to readopt his unity tone, Scott could be heard trying to interrupt him.

    Despite the efforts of moderators to pin them down, DeSantis and Pence struggled to respond when challenged on their respective records on health care.

    Asked about the Trump administration’s failure to end the Affordable Care Act as promised, Pence opted instead to answer a previous question about mass gun violence. When Perino pushed Pence one more time to explain why Obamacare remains not just intact but popular, the former vice president once again demurred.

    Fox’s Stuart Varney similarly pressed DeSantis to explain why 2.5 million Floridians don’t have health insurance.

    DeSantis found a familiar foil for Republicans in California: inflation. Varney, though, said it didn’t explain why Florida has one of the highest uninsurance rates in the country, to which DeSantis had little response.

    “Our state’s a dynamic state,” DeSantis said, before pointing to Florida’s population boom and the low level of welfare benefits offered there.

    Haley, though, appeared ready to debate health care, arguing for transparency in prices to lessen the power of insurance companies and providers and overhauling lawsuit rules to make it harder to sue doctors.

    “How can we be the best country in the world and have the most expensive health care in the world?” Haley said.

    This story has been updated with additional information.

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  • Mike Pence Distances Himself From ‘Trading Insults’ With His ‘Old Friend’ Trump

    Mike Pence Distances Himself From ‘Trading Insults’ With His ‘Old Friend’ Trump

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    Former Vice President Mike Pence backed away from “trading insults” with his former boss after a registered Independent voter doubted if he’ll “stand up” to him at a meet-and-greet event in New Hampshire.

    Pence, who is set to challenge former President Donald Trump in the GOP presidential primaries next year, listened as the voter – Tom Loughlin – gave him what he referred to as an “honest comment” on his White House prospects, ABC News reported.

    “I would love to see you be President of the United States. I’m just gonna give you an honest comment. I don’t believe you ever will be until the day you stand up to that man,” Loughlin told Pence.

    Pence, who once said Trump should “never be president” due to his coup attempt on Jan. 6, 2021, fired back at the voter’s remark.

    “Some people think we did a fair amount of standing up two and a half years ago… I joined the ticket because there was a tacit commitment that we would govern as conservatives and we did… but honestly, I think he makes no such promise today,” the former vice president said.

    “I’m not interested in trading insults with my old friend. I’m not. And some people think that’s the way to win the presidency. I don’t. But laying out the choice for the American people. We’ve been doing it. We’ll keep doing it.”

    FILE – Former Vice President Mike Pence speaks at the Family Leadership Summit earlier this month in Des Moines, Iowa. Pence currently trails Trump by over 44 percentage points in an average of national polls on Republican candidates, according to FiveThirtyEight.

    AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall, File

    Pence’s comments arrive roughly one month before the GOP’s first primary debate in Milwaukee, an event that Trump has threatened to pass on.

    Several candidates have announced that they’ve met the Republican National Committee’s 40,000 unique donor criteria for the debate including ex-New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and gift-card-giving North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum.

    Pence and his campaign have yet to reveal whether he’s met the threshold, ABC News noted.

    Loughlin said that he’s “ill” over Pence’s polling numbers – which fall behind Trump, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy on average – and called on him to go after the former president.

    “This man deserves better than that for the people of this country. He has to talk about the future. And he has to talk about how dangerous that man is for our country,” said Loughlin.

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  • First GOP Presidential Debate Is Next Month, But No One Seems to Know Who’s Attending

    First GOP Presidential Debate Is Next Month, But No One Seems to Know Who’s Attending

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    The first GOP debate of the 2024 presidential race is next month, and it’s still unclear which candidates will make the stage. Recent polling and fundraising numbers provide a mixed bag of news for several of Donald Trump’s critics who are angling to confront the former president in Milwaukee. Former Vice President Mike Pence, despite polling in a solid 4th place in the first Republican National Committee-approved poll, posted anemic fundraising numbers on Friday that question whether he’ll be able to qualify.

    A Morning Consult poll released Tuesday—the first to officially meet the fairly stringent standards set by the RNC— showed eight candidates meeting the RNC’s 1% threshold, including former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie (3%) and former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson (1%). Both Christie and Hutchinson have both been vocal critics of Trump, so their presence in Milwaukee would likely have a significant effect on the tenor of the debate.

    Only Trump and Ron DeSantis reached double digits, with the former president reaching 57% and the Florida Governor notching 17%. Businessman Vivek Ramaswamy (8%), Pence (7%), former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley (3%), and South Carolina Senator Tim Scott (3%), rounded out the qualifying pack.

    The candidates who failed to meet the 1% threshold in the Morning Consult poll were North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, and former Texas GOP Rep representative Will Hurd.

    By August 21—two days before the debate is set to take place—candidates must boast over 40,000 unique donors with at least 200 donors in 20 unique states, in addition to polling over 1% in three qualifying national polls (or two national and one early nominating state poll).

    For some of the candidates, meeting the fundraising standard has been more of a challenge. Last week, Hutchinson said he only had about 5,000 individual donors. On Friday, he told “CNN This Morning” that he believes he will eventually reach the threshold. “It’s just a question of how quickly we can get there, but we want to be on that debate stage,” he said.

    Pence has also failed to meet the donor requirement. “You bet we’ll be on that debate stage. We’re working every day to get to that threshold,” he told CNN’s Kaitlan Collins on Tuesday. “I’m sure we’re going to be there.” On Friday, multiple outlets reported that Pence had raised a measly $1.2 million for his campaign. He has spent little on online advertising—by one measure, one-fortieth of what Ramaswamy has spent—but his campaign said Friday that it was planning on investing in a direct mail campaign to try and juice its donor numbers.

    Other flagging candidates have gone with a more unorthodox approach. Burgum has pioneered a questionably legal scheme of offering $20 gift cards for $1 donations, while a Suarez Super PAC is giving small donors a chance to win a year of college tuition. Both are still below the 40,000 mark.

    Christie, who previously struggled to solicit small donations, announced last week that he’d met the threshold. “I am glad to be able to tell people tonight, Anderson, that last night we went past 40,000 unique donors in just 35 days,” Christie told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Wednesday.

    Still, the major question haunting the debate is whether the former president, who now faces two federal indictments, will even show up. Last week, Trump campaign advisor Jason Miller said Trump is “unlikely” to participate. “It really wouldn’t make much sense for him to go and debate right now with a bunch of folks who are down at three, four and five percent,” Miller said.

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  • Pence tries wooing Iowans, one Pizza Ranch slice at a time | CNN Politics

    Pence tries wooing Iowans, one Pizza Ranch slice at a time | CNN Politics

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    Sioux City, Iowa
    CNN
     — 

    In a crowded Pizza Ranch on Wednesday night, former Vice President Mike Pence found himself confronted about his role on January 6, 2021, by an Iowan who blamed him for President Joe Biden being elected president.

    “If it wasn’t for your vote, we would not have Joe Biden in the White House. … Do you ever second guess yourself?” Luann Bertrand asked.

    Pence, who was on the last stop of his day on a nearly weeklong Iowa swing, listened patiently to Bertrand’s question. “Let me be very respectful of the question,” the former vice president began, as he turned to explaining his role under the Constitution in certifying the 2020 US election results.

    The episode encapsulated Pence’s challenge as he runs for the 2024 GOP nomination against former President Donald Trump, who’d wanted him to overturn Biden’s victory and has convinced many of his followers, falsely, that Pence had the power to do so. But the exchange at this intimate campaign stop also revealed what the former vice president hopes will be his winning strategy in the first-in-the-nation caucus state – namely allowing Iowans to question him and see him up close and personal.

    For nearly five minutes, he directly answered Bertrand’s question, using the word “respect” and “deep affection” as he weaved in constitutional law and an admonishment of Trump, who’s the front-runner for the nomination.

    “I’m sorry, ma’am. But that’s actually what the Constitution says. No vice president in American history ever asserted the authority that you have been convinced that I had. But I want to tell you, with all due respect, I said before, I said when I announced, President Trump was wrong about my authority that day and he’s still wrong,” he said.

    When Pence finished his answer, the room of several dozen broke into applause.

    For the Pence campaign, visiting all of Iowa’s 99 counties isn’t just a campaign promise – it is central to carving a path for taking on the historic challenge of running against a president he once served.

    It may also be the best, and only, chance for a Pence campaign to take off.

    “If you want to win the Iowa caucus, it’s a 50-person Pizza Ranch meeting,” Chip Saltsman, national campaign chairman for the Pence campaign and veteran Republican consultant, told CNN.

    “Everybody that came here tonight, I guarantee the one thing they have in common – they’re all going to caucus. You’re looking for people that are willing to come out on a cold night, spend an hour and a half listening to everybody else talk, and then vote for your person.”

    “The way you build those relationships are in meetings of 50, not rallies of 5,000,” he said, referring to Trump, who has drawn large crowds in his 2024 bid for the White House.

    In the 2008 presidential campaign, Saltsman was the campaign manager for former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, when he concocted what he calls the “Pizza Ranch strategy” – hitting the chain’s 71 locations throughout Iowa, which have private rooms and dining areas conducive to a small town’s biggest events.

    “We were at 1% [in the polls] when we announced,” said Saltsman, reflecting on the Huckabee campaign. “We worked really hard for about three months and then we went from 1% to asterisk. So we had to start back over. That’s when the Pizza Ranch strategy started.”

    With the Huckabee campaign lacking money and name recognition, Saltsman realized that “for the price of a pizza, you got the meeting room” of the town’s Pizza Ranch – and that Huckabee had an automatic crowd if he showed up around lunch or dinner. “It was more out of necessity than some deep strategy,” he said.

    The Huckabee team upscaled this plan to all 99 counties, focusing on finding the Iowa Republicans they needed to convince to caucus for their candidate. Huckabee came from behind to win the 2008 Iowa caucuses, although he ultimately fell well short of the nomination.

    Pence is deploying a similar strategy, focusing on intimate settings where he will spend two hours face-to-face with Iowans, even if the crowd is fewer than 100 people. The Pence team is betting on the multiplying effect of these one-on-one encounters – that the voter will feel a kinship with Pence and bring others to caucus for him.

    At an ice cream shop in Le Mars, Mavis Luther had just listened to Pence speak and answer questions for 90 minutes. The event was small enough that Luther could take a picture with Pence and chat with him. “It’s wonderful!” she exclaimed after she met him. “It’s the only way to have a chance to really know how they feel and answer questions at your level – of the community, country and our state.”

    Pence, a former Indiana governor and congressman, shares the Midwest sensibilities of Iowa, as well as the campaigning style the caucus state is accustomed to. At the July Fourth parade in Urbandale, Pence often broke into a run to greet people along the parade route.

    “I came to the conclusion over the last few years that I’m well known, but we’re not known well,” said Pence. “We’re going to be able to take our story, take our case, and take our whole record, and the story of our family, to the people of Iowa to great success.”

    Matt Thacker, who was watching the parade in his lawn chair, had this to say about Pence’s handshake-to-handshake campaigning – “it matters.”

    “The personal touch is very important,” Thacker said. “I think it makes a lot of difference. And recognizing the country isn’t the coasts. It’s the heartland.”

    Bertrand, the woman in the Sioux City Pizza Ranch, walked away from the event open to Pence, but unconvinced by the facts he laid out about January 6.

    “I believe he’s a good man,” Bertrand told CNN. “I love the fact that he is strengthened by his faith. But I really do feel like he altered history.”

    Bertrand said she would consider supporting Pence in the caucuses. “But,” she said, “he has that one hiccup.”

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  • 07/02: Face The Nation

    07/02: Face The Nation

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    07/02: Face The Nation – CBS News


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    This week on “Face the Nation,” former Vice President Mike Pence talks to Margaret Brennan about the calls to state governors after the 2020 election; plus Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on what to expect with travel on this holiday weekend.

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  • Pence says Trump administration would have kept U.S. troops in Afghanistan despite withdrawal deal with Taliban

    Pence says Trump administration would have kept U.S. troops in Afghanistan despite withdrawal deal with Taliban

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    Washington — Former Vice President Mike Pence said thousands of U.S. troops would have remained in Afghanistan, despite an agreement the Trump administration with the Taliban that had American forces leaving by May 2021. 

    “Candidly, it was always my belief that it would be prudent to keep a couple of thousand American forces there to support our efforts against terrorist elements, both in Afghanistan and in the region,” Pence, who is running for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, told “Face the Nation” in an interview that aired Sunday. 

    “I think we ultimately would have done that,” he said. “Just as the president announced — the former president announced — we were pulling troops out of Syria. … Ultimately there’s still American forces in Syria today. I think we would have landed in that place.” 

    Under the terms of the Trump administration’s 2020 agreement with the Taliban, the U.S. agreed to a conditions-based withdrawal of all remaining forces from Afghanistan if the Taliban lived up to its own commitments. The former vice president argued that the Taliban had breached those terms, and thus the U.S. need not honor the deal.   

    But when the U.S. pulled out of Afghanistan in Aug. 2021, the chaotic evacuation turned deadly when a suicide bombing at the Kabul airport killed 13 U.S. service members and dozens of Afghans who were trying to flee the country ahead of the Taliban’s takeover. 

    Both former President Donald Trump and Mr. Biden have blamed the calamitous outcome on other’s handling of the withdrawal. The Biden administration has said its predecessor’s drawdown of U.S. troops ahead of a full withdrawal left the Taliban in a strong position and its failure to include the Afghan government in negotiations was detrimental. Trump and his allies have criticized Mr. Biden’s handling of pullout, saying he botched the exit plan and the chaos would not have happened under Trump’s leadership. 

    The State Department released an unclassified report Friday that faulted both the Trump and Biden administrations for “insufficient” planning leading up to the withdrawal, as well as a number of other missteps. 

    “[D]uring both administrations there was insufficient senior-level consideration of worst-case scenarios and how quickly those might follow,” the report said. 

    Pence said he does not believe the Trump administration bears some responsibility for the chaos. 

    “I know what the deal was that was negotiated with the Taliban. It was made very clear. I was in the room when President Trump told the leader of the Taliban, said, ‘Look, you’re going to have to cooperate with the Afghan government. You don’t harbor terrorists. And you don’t harm any American soldiers,’” Pence said.  

    “We went 18 months without a single American casualty to the day at that Kabul airport that we lost 13 brave American service members,” he said. “The blame for what happened here falls squarely on the current commander in chief.” 

    Pence also criticized Mr. Biden for his handling of Russia’s war in Ukraine, saying he has failed to explain to Americans “what our national interest is there” and is too slow to provide weapons to Ukraine. 

    “President Biden says, ‘We’re there as long as it takes.’ It shouldn’t take that long,” said Pence, who visited Ukraine last week and met with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. 

    Pence also discussed the controversial Supreme Court decisions released last week. He said the ruling in favor of a Christian graphic artist from Colorado who does not want to design wedding website for same-sex couples was “a victory for the religious freedom of every American of every faith.” In response to the ruling on affirmative action, Pence said he doesn’t believe there is racial inequity in the education system in America. 

    “There may have been a time when affirmative action was necessary simply to open the doors of all of our schools and universities, but I think that time has passed,” he said. 

    Caitlin Yilek

    Caitlin Yilek is a politics reporter for CBS News Digital. Reach her at caitlin.yilek@cbsinteractive.com. Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hausofcait

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  • Open: This is

    Open: This is

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    Open: This is “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” July 2, 2023 – CBS News


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    This week on “Face the Nation,” former Vice President Mike Pence talks to Margaret Brennan about the calls to state governors after the 2020 election; plus Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on what to expect with travel on this holiday weekend.

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    The following is a transcript of an interview with former Vice President Mike Pence that will air on “Face the Nation” on July 2, 2023.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Vice President Mike Pence made a visit to Ukraine last week and joins us now as he makes his way back to the U.S. Good morning to you, sir.

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Good morning, Margaret. Thanks for having me on. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to start on some domestic news. As you know, it has been an incredible week with Supreme Court decisions. And you have voiced support for 303 Creative v. Elenis which ruled that the First Amendment protects a designer from creating speech that she does not believe, which in this case would be a wedding website for a gay couple. What do you say to Americans who believe that this opens the door to discrimination?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well- well, Margaret, first and foremost, I would- I would say to every American that the freedom of religion is our first freedom, that’s enshrined in the First Amendment for a reason. And from the moment the Supreme Court recognized same-sex marriage, the court had made a commitment, and Justice Gorsuch did also in a prior decision, that as they move forward on that decision, that they would still respect the freedom of religion and the freedom of conscience of every American. And- and in Lorie Smith’s case, she made it very clear that she would- she would take all customers in her website design, she just simply said that she could not create a website that would celebrate something that violated her religious beliefs. And as you know, I’m a- I’m a Bible-believing Christian. I- I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman and I believe that every American is entitled to live, to work, to worship according to the dictates of their conscience. And I’m- I’m so grateful that a strong majority of the court, strengthened by the appointments during our administration, really gave a- gave a victory for the religious freedom of every American of every faith. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand you see this as religious freedom, but in other words, are you saying that you would not refuse services to people on the basis of their sexual orientation?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: No, look, I think this- this is not about the law of public accommodation. And this is, both- both of these cases came from Colorado, where the heavy hand of government came in and said, ‘look, if you have a public accommodation, whether- whether you’re a cake baker, or a webmaker, that- that you’re required to- to take all customers,’ that’s what a public accommodation is, Margaret. But what the Supreme Court said here, and as they did in the Jack Smith (sic) case, by a 7-2 majority, is that you can’t compel the American people to create products that- that violate their conscience or their religious beliefs. I think, as I said, I think it- it was a victory for faith, it was a victory for religious freedom and- and I couldn’t be more grateful to see the three justices that our administration appointed to the court join the majority and- and affirming a real commitment to our first freedom.  

    MARGARET BRENNAN: But to the public, for those who do hear some concern here, as president, how do you assure them that you will provide equal treatment to all?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, look, I- I believe in the freedom of religion and the freedom of conscience of every- every American. It’s- you know, I’m a constitutional conservative, Margaret, and I believe in upholding the language of the Constitution. I believe the Supreme Court did- did this in Lorie Smith’s case and I also believe the Supreme Court did this in Jack Smith’s case. Remember, Jack Smith (sic) [Phillips], the cake baker that- that also was subject to the heavy hand of the Colorado government. He- he said that he’d make a cake for any couple of any background and any preference, but he said he just couldn’t- he couldn’t create a cake that celebrated something that violated his faith. The Supreme Court said in Jack Smith’s (sic) [Phillips] case that they respected his freedom of religion and they said it in Lorie Smith’s case. And- and I believe that’s- that’s, that’s how America works. You know, we’re gonna celebrate our freedom over this long weekend. And it’s about respecting the freedom of every American, whether they hold the same religious beliefs as I do or not. But in this case, I think the Supreme Court drew a clear line and said ‘yes’ to religious liberty. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about the ruling on affirmative action. Fundamentally, do you believe that there are racial inequities in the education system in the United States?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I- I couldn’t be more proud of the progress, even in- in our lifetime, Margaret, that we’ve made toward a more perfect union. I mean, to- to see the progress we made, the Civil Rights Act, to see so many years ago, when- when the Supreme Court upheld an effort by universities to make sure the doors of our schools were open to everyone regardless of- of race, I think- I think all represented real progress, but- but, I’m- I’m so grateful that the Supreme Court of the United States here recognized what, frankly, Justice Sandra Day O’Connor said back in 2003, was that affirmative action was a temporary solution. It was an- it was designed to make sure that we opened doors that hadn’t been opened before. But she herself said that she expected it to go away within 25 years. It went away more quickly than that. I think that’s a tribute to our nation. It’s a great, great credit to the extraordinary accomplishments that minority students have had on our campuses. And- and I really do believe that- that- that we can move forward as a country and- and- and embrace the notion that we’re all going to be judged not on the color of our skin, but on the content of our character, and in this case, on our GPA.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: And- am I understanding you saying there in that answer that you do not believe there is racial inequity in the education system in America?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I- I just, I- I really don’t believe there is. I believe there was. I mean, it’s- there may have been a time when affirmative action was necessary simply to open the doors of all of our schools and universities, but I think that time has passed. I really believe that the accomplishments of America’s students, particularly our minority students, the great achievements that- that African Americans have- have- have reached in this country on that educational foundation, I think tells us that- that we’ve opened those doors and minority students on our campuses have excelled and I’m confident those doors will remain open. And we’ll continue to move forward as a colorblind society, which is really, the aspiration I believe of every American.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: The court also ruled that President Biden lacks the legal authority to forgive student debt for 40 million Americans as he had tried to do. In response, the president made the political argument that Republican officials couldn’t bear the thought of providing relief for working class, middle-class Americans. How do you respond to that?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, first it’s just factually wrong. I mean, frankly, the Supreme Court here upheld the interpretation of the Constitution of the United States that President Joe Biden held and that Speaker Nancy Pelosi held, you remember, Margaret.  I mean, President Biden initially said he didn’t have the authority and he didn’t. Nancy Pelosi said it would take an act of Congress to do this student loan forgiveness. But they went ahead and did it anyway. But in defense of the separation of powers, the prerogative of the Congress under the Constitution, the Supreme Court struck a decisive blow. But the other piece of it here, Margaret, is I mean, come on. The majority of people that would have benefited from this student loan forgiveness are people with multiple graduate degrees. So you’re going to say to working Americans, to truck drivers, to people working in the trades, ‘we’re going to take your taxes and pay down a part of the student debt of doctors and lawyers and Ph.D.s.’ It’s just- it, nothing could be further than the truth. This was not about the middle class. The Supreme Court of the United States took a strong stand for the Constitution. And again, I- I really, I couldn’t be more proud that the three justices that our administration saw confirmed to the Supreme Court of the United States, in all three of these cases, has been delivering on- on defending the Constitution, has been delivering on applying laws as written. And- and- and I really think, I think it’s been a great, great affirmation of the work our administration did to strengthen the rule of law in this country.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: You still have to get young voters to turn out and vote for you, sir. This is very politically popular issue for Democrats. So what is your pledge to young voters?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: My pledge to young voters is that we’re gonna get this economy moving again. I mean, when I talk to young people, they understand that we’re going through the, you know, the worst inflation in 40 years, the administration’s war on energy drove up energy prices to record levels. We’ve got this crisis at our border that’s seen millions of people come into this country. I mean, this country is in a lot of trouble. And the young people I speak to as I travel around the country since we announced our intention to seek the Republican nomination. They’re worried, they’re worried about this economy and unconstitutional government handouts are not what these young Americans are looking for. They’re looking for a growing economy and they know that by putting into practice the policies that we did in our administration, by extending those Trump-Pence tax cuts, rolling back regulations, ending the war on energy, securing our border, we’re gonna set- set the table for a boundless American future for them.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: There was some reporting in The Washington Post that President Trump, back in 2020 after the election, repeatedly asked you to call the governor of the state of Arizona, Doug Ducey, to get him to substantiate President Trump’s claims- false claims of fraud. The Post is reporting you did call the Arizona governor multiple times to discuss the election. Is that reporting accurate? And what did you tell Governor Ducey at the time?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I think the record reflects that I did check in, with not only Governor Ducey, but other governors in states that were going through the legal process of reviewing their election results, but there was no pressure involved, Margaret. I was- I was calling to get an update. I passed along that information to the president and as I said, I think the- I think the record from that time, confirms all of that. Look, these states were going through a process after- after so much uncertainty about the election outcome in places like Arizona, in places like Georgia, states around the country, were going through the legal process of engaging in a- in- in a review under state law. I got updates on that, passed that along, and it was no more, no less than that. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: You are clearly saying you did not pressure the governor. But were you being pressured by Mr. Trump to get those- to influence Doug Ducey and did you talk about this with the Special Counsel?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: No, I don’t remember any pressure. Look, the president and I- things came to a head at the end, Margaret, I’ve spoken about very openly and the president and I continue to have a strong difference. I’ll always believe that by God’s grace, I did my duty under the Constitution that day in presiding over a joint session of Congress in the aftermath of the mayhem and the rioting. But in the days of November and December, this was- this was an orderly process. You’ll remember there were more than 60 lawsuits underway, states were engaging in appropriate reviews and that- these contacts were no more than that.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: You were not being pressured to influence state governors is what you are saying?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: No, no there was- there was the president expressed his- his strong belief that I had authority that I did not have under the Constitution in the closing days. But no, this was about information gathering, finding out what was going on. We passed that information along and, and otherwise just focused on the work at hand. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, well, we will continue to track the work of the Special Counsel. I want to ask you about some issues of foreign policy, because you did just make this trip to Ukraine. You were the only Republican presidential candidate to have done so and you met with President Zelenskyy. He is being very clear, that when NATO leaders meet this month, he expects clear steps and an invitation to join the Western military alliance. If you were president, would you make that pledge to a country that’s currently at war with Russia?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I think you put your finger on- on the issue there. But first, let me say, you know, I went to Ukraine because America is the leader of the free world. We’re the arsenal of democracy. And frankly, I think President Joe Biden has truly failed to explain to the American people what our national interest is there. I- I’m someone that believes that it’s absolutely essential that the United States continue to provide military support to the Ukrainian military to push back on Russian aggression because if Russia were able to overrun Ukraine, I think it would not- it would not be long before Vladimir Putin ordered his troops across a border, that under NATO, we would be required to send men and women in uniform. So I think we have a profound national interest here also, you know, in- in less than two years, with American and Allied support for the Ukrainian military and their extraordinary courage, I mean, Margaret, Russia has gone from being the second most powerful military in the world to being the second most powerful military in Ukraine. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. 

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: You know, that- that’s real progress. It’s measurable. It’s in our national interest. What-  it- it is not in our interest to send American forces into Ukraine, and I would never support it. And as I met with President Zelenskyy, he made it clear that he’s not looking for that. And I have reason to believe, Margaret, that when- when NATO meets in a few weeks in Vilnius, that- that President Zelenskyy would be open to a conditional invitation to membership in- in NATO, namely saying that Ukraine will be a member of NATO once the war is over, once the war is won. I mean, I really do believe it’s essential that- that America continue to lead, that our allies provide Ukraine with the support they need. I got a report that after a very wet spring, now the Ukrainian military is making steady advances over the last several weeks. But frankly, Joe Biden continues to be and this administration, continues to be slow. They promised 33 Abrams tanks back in January. Now they’re telling them it’ll be September at the earliest. We’re still dragging our feet on giving them F-16s and they were actually told that it’d be January before they- the U.S. would approve those aircrafts being released–

    (CROSSTALK)

    MARGARET BRENNAN: If you were president–

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: President Biden says ‘we’re there as long as it takes.’ It shouldn’t take that long, Margaret. And- and Joe Biden has been slow walking aid to the Ukrainian military. You give them what they need and those courageous soldiers I met, the brave and faithful families I stood with beside their homes, they’ll fight and they’ll win against Russian aggression. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Would you provide Ukraine with the type of long-range missiles that would allow it to strike into Russia? ATACMS, like Zelenskyy’s asking for?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I think that we ought to provide them with the munitions to repel the Russian invasion. This was an unprovoked act of naked aggression by Russia that I- I actually think occurred because- because, from the outset, the Biden administration ended our practice of providing military support to Ukraine. I mean, under the Obama-Biden administration, they- they- they sent them blankets and military meals. We provided them with Javelin missiles.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. 

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: They ended that. And then the disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan, I think, emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world. And I think going forward–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask–

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: –it’s in the interest of freedom, it’s in our national interest to give them what they need to win this fight and drive the Russian military out of Ukraine. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: So maybe on that, on the Afghanistan issue, I’m glad you raised it because the State Department just released a report Friday, an after action report that did fault the Biden administration for a number of missteps but it also faulted the Trump administration, saying the Trump administration had ‘insufficient senior-level consideration of worst-case scenarios’ when it agreed to the withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2020. President Trump signaled his desire to end the military presence before even reaching a deal with the Taliban. There was no plan or effort to help at-risk Afghans or plan for what to do with diplomats after withdrawal happened. Just a lack of planning. Do you accept that the Trump administration bears some responsibility for this chaos?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Margaret, I don’t because I know what the deal was that was negotiated with the Taliban. It was made very clear. I was in the room when President Trump told the leader of the Taliban, said, ‘Look, you’re gonna have to cooperate with- with the Afghan government. You don’t harbor terrorists. And you don’t harm any American soldiers.’ We went 18 months without a single American casualty to the day at that Kabul airport that we lost 13 brave American service members. The- the blame for what happened here falls squarely on the current commander in chief. And under our administration, I promise you, that while- while it was our- it was the intention of the president, the former president to pull our troops out, when the Taliban broke the deal and moved into Mazar-e-Sharif and Joe Biden did nothing, that set into motion the catastrophe that- that became Afghanistan and the heartbreaking end to 20 years of conflict. 

    (CROSSTALK)

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying you would not have- you would- are you saying there that you would have kept the troops beyond the 2020 deal? Is that what you’re saying? 

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, look, candidly, it was always my belief that it would be prudent to keep a couple of thousand American forces there to support our efforts against terrorist elements, both in Afghanistan and in the region. And I- I think we ultimately would have done that. Just as the president announced we were- the former president announced we were pulling troops out of Syria, you remember I was- I was sent to Turkey to negotiate a cease-fire. And- and ultimately, there’s still American forces in Syria today. I think we would have landed in that place. I will tell you with deep conviction that that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan would never have happened under our administration, because we would have held the Taliban to the deal. And I believe at the end of the day, Afghanistan would be a much different place today. And frankly, our- our- our security and our long-term interests would be far better off. No whitewash from the Pentagon is going to change that. The responsibility for that disastrous withdrawal falls squarely on President Joe Biden and the American people know it.

    MARGARET BRENNAN:  I want to ask you about China as well. Do you agree with President Biden that Xi Jinping is a dictator?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I think it’s a statement of fact, Margaret. But look, I also want to say with regard to Ukraine, because a lot of people will say, ‘well, China’s the real issue.’ And I, you know, I gave the first major speech in our administration, on changing U.S. policy on China, at the Hudson Institute back in 2018. Look, we changed the national consensus on China, but people need to understand that- that among our- our interests in the region, standing- standing for freedom, repelling Russian invasion, preventing Russia from going into a neighboring country where our soldiers would have to fight, I think there’s no more effective way to send a deafening message to communist China to check their military ambitions in the Asia Pacific, then by giving Ukraine what they need to repel the Russian invasion. I know China’s watching. They forge this unlimited partnership with- with Russia, but I gotta note, I’ve met President Xi, I’ve also met President Putin. I guarantee you President Xi is watching what’s happening in Ukraine very carefully. We give the Ukrainians, much more quickly than Joe Biden’s doing now, we give them what they need to win this fight to repel the Russian invasion, I think- I think it’ll- it’ll- it’ll lay a strong foundation for restraining the military aggression and ambitions of China in the Asia Pacific, like- like almost nothing else. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: So to be clear, you as president would commit U.S. troops to defend Taiwan against a Chinese invasion?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Well, I would- I would say to you that I’m somebody that believes that it’s no advantage to say what you would or wouldn’t do. I thought one of the catastrophic errors that President Biden made before the Russian invasion in Ukraine was he signaled that if it was just a- if it was just a small invasion, that maybe we wouldn’t send troops or we wouldn’t respond. Look, Margaret, we- never say what you’ll never do. The United States of America should continue to be providing with- Taiwan with the military means to defend themselves. What we want is a policy of deterrence. And, frankly, the Biden administration with regard to Ukraine, once they- they capitulated to Russia on Nord Stream 2, they were begging Iran, still are, to get back in the Iran nuclear deal, then that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, I think that eliminated the deterrence that existed in our administration. You know, our administration– 

    (CROSSTALK)

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia had troops in Ukraine during your administration, sir. 

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: –is the only administration in the 21st century where Russia didn’t attempt to redraw lines by force. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia did have troops within Ukraine during your administration, sir. You acknowledge that?

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE:  They- they had the troops in Crimea. They rolled into there during the Obama administration. And, but look, I want to be clear with you, I think peace comes through strength. And the United States of America, whether it’s in the Asia Pacific or in Eastern Europe needs to be the leader of the free world, the arsenal of democracy, make sure people that are standing for their freedom know that America and our allies are with them. 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for your time today, Mr. Vice President.

    FORMER VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Thank you, Margaret.

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  • Pence says “I don’t remember any pressure” on state governors after 2020 election

    Pence says “I don’t remember any pressure” on state governors after 2020 election

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    In an interview on Saturday with “Face the Nation,” former Vice President Mike Pence said that there was “no pressure involved” in former President Donald Trump’s requests for him to call former Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey in the days and weeks following the 2020 election . 

    The Washington Post reported Saturday that Trump tried to pressure Ducey, a fellow Republican, after the 2020 election to overturn the election results in his state, which President Biden won by more than 10,000 votes. According to the Post, Trump also urged Pence to call Ducey and prod him to find evidence of voter fraud in Arizona.  

    Pence confirmed to CBS News that he did call Ducey following the 2020 election to discuss election results. 

    “I did check in, with not only Gov.  Ducey, but other governors and states that were going through the legal process of reviewing their election results,” Pence told “Face the Nation” moderator Margaret Brennan. “But there was no pressure involved. Margaret, I was calling to get an update. I passed along that information to the president. It was no more, no less, than that.”

    When asked if he had been pressured by Trump to (different word here—let’s use “prod” or “push”-MH) Ducey to change the election results in Arizona, Pence said no.

    “No, I don’t remember any pressure,” Pence said. 

    “Look, the president and I, things came to a head at the end,” he continued. “I did my duty under the Constitution that day in presiding over a joint session of Congress in the aftermath of the mayhem and the rioting. But in the days of November, and December, this was an orderly process. You’ll remember there were more than 60 lawsuits underway, states were engaging in appropriate reviews and that these contacts were no more than that.”

    When asked if Trump had pressured him to exert influence over any state governor, Pence once again said no.

    “The president expressed his strong belief that I had authority that I did not have under the Constitution in the closing days,” said Pence, referring to Trump’s private and public pressure on Pence to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election during the joint session of Congress on Jan. 6, 2021. 

    “But [in November and December 2020],” Pence said, “this was about information gathering, finding out what was going on.”

    In April, Pence testified for over seven hours before a federal grand jury investigating Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Pence’s testimony came  after a three-judge panel  ruled that he was required to provide testimony despite Pence’s attempt to resist the subpoena by claiming he was protected by the “speech or debate clause”  of the Constitution. 

    Special counsel Jack Smith is leading the investigation into Trump’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election results . Smith’s team is also leading the federal investigation into Trump’s handling of classified documents. In June, a federal grand jury in Miami indicted Trump on 37 counts related to the sensitive documents recovered at his Florida residence, Mar-a-Lago. Trump pleaded not guilty to all charges.

    Sophia Barkoff

    Sophia Barkoff is a broadcast associate with CBS News’ “Face the Nation.”

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  • Trump pressured Arizona governor after 2020 election to help overturn his defeat | CNN Politics

    Trump pressured Arizona governor after 2020 election to help overturn his defeat | CNN Politics

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    CNN
     — 

    Following his defeat in the 2020 election, President Donald Trump spoke to Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey to discuss the results, a source familiar with the call told CNN.

    Publicly, Ducey said at the time that the two Republican leaders had spoken, though he did not describe what they had talked about. Behind closed doors, Ducey said that the former president was pressuring him to find fraud in the presidential election in Arizona that would help him overturn his loss in the state, a source with knowledge said. Trump narrowly lost Arizona to Joe Biden by less than 11,000 votes.

    There was no recording made of the call between Trump and Ducey, according to a source familiar with the matter.

    Trump also repeatedly pressured his vice president, Mike Pence, to help him find evidence of fraud and overturn the 2020 election results. Pence told the governor that if there was hard evidence of voter fraud to report it appropriately, one of the sources said.

    Pence rebukes Trump: ‘I had no right to overturn election’

    Pence spoke to Ducey multiple times about the election, though he did not pressure the governor as he was asked, sources familiar with the calls said.

    A spokesperson for Pence declined to comment.

    The Washington Post first reported on Trump pressuring Ducey on overturning the election results.

    Trump publicly attacked Ducey, a former ally, over the state’s certification of the results. As Ducey was certifying the election results in November 2020, Trump appeared to call the governor – with a “Hail to the Chief” ringtone heard playing on Ducey’s phone. Ducey did not take that call but later said he spoke with Trump, though he did not describe the specifics of the conversation.

    A spokesman for Ducey told CNN earlier this week that the former governor had not been contacted by the office of special counsel Jack Smith, who is investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 elections.

    Those efforts include outreach to various state officials, including Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, whom Smith has interviewed. In January 2021, Trump told Raffensperger to “find” the votes he needed to win the state, a call that’s at the center of the Fulton County district attorney’s investigation into attempts to overturn the election in Georgia.

    The special counsel’s office did not respond to a request for comment.

    A Ducey spokesman said Saturday that the former governor “stands by his action to certify the election and considers the issue to be in the rear view mirror – it’s time to move on.”

    “This is nothing more than a ‘copy and paste’ of a compilation of articles from the past two years, disguised as something new and relying on shaky and questionable sourcing,” spokesman Daniel Scarpinato said in a statement. “Frankly, nothing here is new nor is it news to anyone following this issue the last two years. Governor Ducey defended the results of Arizona’s 2020 election, he certified the election, and he made it clear that the certification provided a trigger for credible complaints backed by evidence to be brought forward. None were ever brought forward.”

    Trump is currently seen as the front-runner for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination as he seeks a return to the White House.

    A Trump spokesperson said in a statement: “These witch-hunts are designed to interfere and meddle in the 2024 election in an attempt to prevent President Trump from returning to the White House to make this country great again. They will fail and President Trump will be re-elected.”

    Before his fallout with Trump, Ducey had been seen as a formidable candidate for Senate in 2022, but he ultimately ruled out a bid to challenge Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly, who won reelection last year over a Trump-endorsed GOP nominee.

    Ducey, who was term-limited as governor last year, endorsed Karrin Taylor Robson, a former member of the Arizona Board of Regents, in the race to succeed him. However, Taylor Robson lost the primary to Trump’s pick, Kari Lake, a former television anchor who said she would not have certified Biden’s 2020 win had she been governor. Lake ended up losing the general election to Democrat Katie Hobbs and has continued to promote election falsehoods, including about her own race.

    Ducey, a former CEO of Cold Stone Creamery, served a term as Arizona treasurer before winning two elections for governor.

    He announced last month he would be leading Citizens for Free Enterprise, which describes itself as a “new national effort to promote and protect free enterprise.”

    This story has been updated with additional information.

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  • Mike Pence Roasted For Extremely Weird Take On Affirmative Action

    Mike Pence Roasted For Extremely Weird Take On Affirmative Action

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    “There may have been a time 50 years ago when we needed to affirmatively take steps to correct long-term racial bias in institutions of higher education,” Pence told MSNBC’s Dasha Burns. “But I can tell you, as the father of three college graduates, those days are long over.”

    Pence was reacting to the Supreme Court’s controversial decision to end affirmative action in education, a system designed to help Black and Latino students gain access to higher education and correct historic underrepresentation and discrimination against those groups.

    Pence and his wife Karen, both wealthy and influential college graduates, have three adult children: Michael Pence, Charlotte Pence Bond and Audrey Pence. They attended Purdue, DePaul and Yale universities, respectively.

    Twitter users were left scratching their heads:

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  • Former Vice President and presidential candidate Mike Pence calls for tighter federal abortion restrictions, but others keep their distance

    Former Vice President and presidential candidate Mike Pence calls for tighter federal abortion restrictions, but others keep their distance

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    Republican presidential candidate and former U.S. Vice President Mike Pence gestures during the “National Celebrate Life Day Rally” commemorating the first anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in the Dobbs v Women’s Health Organization case, overturning the landmark Roe v Wade abortion decision, in Washington, U.S., June 24, 2023. 

    Evelyn Hockstein | Reuters

    Two Republican 2024 presidential hopefuls talked up their opposition to abortion on Sunday on the one-year anniversary of the Supreme Court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson, the decision that overturned Roe v. Wade.

    Presidential candidate and former Vice President Mike Pence described last year’s landmark decision as “a historic victory” that condemned Roe v. Wade to “the ash heap of history.”

    Pence earlier this week called for all GOP candidates to commit to a nationwide ban on abortion after 15 weeks — but he said on Sunday that it was also important to “stand with compassion.”

    “With 62 million unborn lives lost, and just about as many women who have endured the two generations under abortion, I think we need to bring a message of grace, we need to bring a message of kindness,” Pence said in an interview on “Fox News Sunday.” “That’s how we’re going to win hearts and minds. It’s so much more important than politics to me, but I also think it’s a winning issue.”

    Pence said that a national 15-week limit would “align American law with most of the countries in Europe that literally ban abortion after 12 to 15 weeks.”

    His call for tighter restrictions come even as a recent national NBC News poll found that 6-in-10 voters remain opposed to the Supreme Court removing the national right to abortion. The poll included nearly 80% of female voters ages 18-49, two-thirds of suburban women, 60% of independents and a third of Republican voters who disapprove, according to NBC News.

    Pence also said that he “strongly supports” Alabama Republican Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s effort to hold up military promotions because of Defense Department policies on abortion, including a recent decision to reimburse costs for service members who travel to other states to obtain an abortion.

    “We simply cannot have the federal government subsidizing abortion in this country directly or indirectly, and that includes the Pentagon,” Pence said.

    Another guest on the Fox program, Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD), took issue with that comment. “We [Democrats] support Roe v. Wade,” Cardin said. “We thought that was established law. It was an established law for almost 50 years. The Supreme Court decision was a radical decision that reversed the rights of women to make their own health-care decisions.”

    That right “shouldn’t be subservient to what state legislatures are doing,” Cardin said. “This is a personal decision made by women with the advice of their doctors and their families. And we don’t think we should try to tell women when they can make those decisions.”

    But at least one GOP contender said on Sunday that he isn’t likely to sign on to Pence’s idea. Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who announced his bid for president earlier this month, said that while he supports the decision in Dobbs, he will oppose the concept of a federal abortion ban until a “national consensus” develops on the issue.

    “Conservatives like me, for the last 50 years, have been arguing that this is not a federal issue. It’s a state issue. It’s something that states should decide. The Dobbs case one year ago gave us the opportunity to let each state make this decision,” he told ABC’s “This Week” on Sunday.

    “What I hope to see is that with each of the 50 states, but more importantly the people of each of the 50 states deciding this issue, we then could see a national consensus develop,” Christie said.

    “If a national consensus develops, I have no problem with the federal government stepping in and confirming that national consensus.”

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