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Tag: January 6 hearings

  • U.S. attorney explains Jan. 6 Capitol riot prosecutions

    U.S. attorney explains Jan. 6 Capitol riot prosecutions

    More than 1,000 Americans have been convicted in the January 6th, 2021 attack on the Capitol. About 350 trials are still pending and the FBI continues its dragnet for suspects. The attack that stopped the count of the presidential vote triggered the largest prosecution in U.S. history. But now, history is being challenged. Former President Donald Trump calls the convicted, “patriots” worthy of pardons. What is the evidence? We begin with the prosecutor in charge. U.S. Attorney Matthew Graves told us what drives the prosecution of January 6th.

    Matthew Graves: The crime was severe. It was an attack on our democracy. Once you replace votes and deliberation with violence and intimidation, you’ve lost the democratic process. You’ve lost the rule of law. But it’s also about the victims, the officer victims who were injured that day, and making sure we hold people accountable for the harm that they inflicted on the 140 officers who reported physical injury.

    Matthew Graves has worked in the Bush and Biden Justice Departments. Now, as U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, he’s won more than 1,000 January 6th convictions and lost only two of the cases at trial.

    Scott Pelley: What is the best evidence that you’ve had?

    Matthew Graves: The crimes that occurred that day are probably the most recorded crimes in all of our history. You also have the words of the defendants explaining what they were going to do or what they had done.

    Matthew Graves
    U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Matthew Graves

    60 Minutes


    Evidence from the trials show many in the mob were determined to stop the count of the electoral vote that would certify Joe Biden’s victory. They were enraged by President Trump’s false claims of a stolen election. 

    Scott Pelley: You must’ve felt strongly to drive 2,000 miles to Washington.

    Jerod Hughes: Yes, sir. I still feel very strongly.

    Jerod Hughes came from Montana. He’s a married, 39-year-old construction worker with a daughter and a grievance. 

    Jerod Hughes: The way this country’s headed, my paycheck– you know, my wife’s disabled, and it’s been hell for us to try to, you know, try to make it with the tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills, you know? And a lot of us see Donald Trump, the outsider, comin’ in and tryin’ to– and tryin’ to help us out, tryin’ to help the little guy out against the big government. 

    That’s Jerod Hughes at lower right in the khaki cap, among the first inside the Capitol. That’s Hughes, inside, at the door, kicking it out so the mob can rush in.

    Jerod Hughes: You guys don’t want this. You don’t f***ing want this! And we are f***ing mad! We are mad!

    Jerod Hughes: No matter how I look at it, I share some of the responsibility for everything that happened that day, letting people in, being a part of that mob. I didn’t personally fight any cops or engage with any officers, but I have a lot of family that are police officers. I have a tremendous amount of respect for police, and I did not like seeing them being assaulted.

    Scott Pelley: We didn’t see a lot of respect for police in that video.

    Jerod Hughes: Well, no. Absolutely. I mean, I’ll hold my hand up and say I was wrong. I should not have been screaming at those cops. It’s not somethin’ I’m proud of.

    Others did much worse. 

    Daniel Hodges: I became trapped. They pinned me against the door frame, and with my arms at my side I couldn’t mount any kind of defense. 

    Officer Daniel Hodges of D.C.’s Metropolitan Police defended an entrance known as the West Front Tunnel. 

    Officer Daniel Hodges of D.C.'s Metropolitan Police
    Officer Daniel Hodges of D.C.’s Metropolitan Police

    60 Minutes


    Daniel Hodges: Someone was pinning me with a police shield, and another member of the crowd grabbed my gas mask by the filter in front and just started essentially punching me in the face while holding onto it, and then eventually ripped it off my head-And then he stole my riot baton out of my hands and beat me in the head with it.

    Scott Pelley: What were you defending?

    Daniel Hodges: Democracy.

    Democracy stopped for about six hours. The vote was counted at 3:44 a.m. With two weeks until inauguration day, it was the Trump Justice Department that set the standards for the prosecutions. Decisions were made by “career” prosecutors who work at Justice for years regardless of who the president might be.

    Matthew Graves: The career prosecutors quickly realized that you needed guidelines in place, determinations about who was gonna be charged, who wasn’t gonna be charged, and what they would be charged with. That process started in January 7th, 2021, during the prior administration. To this day, we continue to use guidelines that the career prosecutors put in place during the prior administration.

    Scott Pelley: And how do they guide you?

    Matthew Graves: what we’re generally focusing on, of the thousands of people who you could potentially charge that day, are people who actually entered into the Capitol, people who engaged in violent or destructive behavior, people who illegally carried firearms or other weapons on Capitol grounds, and people who helped others to get into the Capitol building.

    Scott Pelley: You’re not charging everyone who was there that day?

    Matthew Graves: That is correct. We have turned down hundreds of cases where the FBI is saying, there is evidence here, it’s your determination, prosecutors, whether you think this should be prosecuted.

    Scott Pelley: And why would you turn them down?

    Matthew Graves: Because they don’t fit within the guidelines that the career prosecutors had been using, or we don’t think that there’s sufficient evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

    U.S. Attorney Matthew Graves told us that January 6th charges range from, essentially, trespassing, to the most serious, seditious conspiracy.

    Matthew Graves: So seditious conspiracy is a Civil-War era statute that deals with basically using force against the government to interfere with the operations of the government.

    Fourteen have been convicted of seditious conspiracy. One, a militia leader, got 22 years, the longest sentence of all. All of the trials have been in open court in Washington before judges or juries, the defendant’s choice. but more than 900 — 80% — have pleaded guilty.

    Matthew Graves: And we’ve seen defendants in January 6th take full advantage of all the protections afforded under the constitution. To me, that’s the picture of due process.

    But “due process” is not the picture painted at Trump rallies, including this last March. 

    Announcer: “Ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the horribly and unfairly treated January 6th hostages.” “Oh, say can you see by the dawn’s early light…” “At the twilight’s last gleaming…”

    That’s a recording of defendants in jail. Mr. Trump has said that he’s “inclined to pardon many of them.”

    Former President Donald Trump (during March 2024 rally): Well, thank you very much and you see the spirit from the hostages and that’s what they are, is hostages, they’ve been treated terribly and very unfairly, and you know that and everybody knows that and we are going to be working on that, soon as, the first day we get into office, we’re going to save our country we are going to work with the people to treat those unbelievable patriots and they were unbelievable patriots and are… 

    The former president has also revised the history of those who died.

    One of his supporters was killed by an officer defending the House chamber. Three other Trump supporters died that day—one drug overdose—two from cardiovascular disease. And a police officer died of a stroke the next day. In the debate, Mr. Trump acknowledged one death, but he said this in August.

    Former President Donald Trump (during August news conference:) When you compare them to other things that took place in this country where a lot of people were killed. Nobody was killed on January 6th.

    Former President Trump is, himself, a January 6th defendant in a separate prosecution led by Special Counsel Jack Smith. Trump was indicted by a grand jury for allegedly conspiring to overturn the election with lies he knew were false -the same myths that stoked rage in Jerod Hughes.

    Jerod Hughes
    Jerod Hughes

    60 Minutes


    Scott Pelley: Where were you getting all of this information?

    Jerod Hughes: Well, a lot of Fox News, a lot of stuff that I read on the internet. Obviously, Trump himself, you know, saying that the election was stolen.

    Fox News paid $787 million to settle a suit that claimed that Fox repeatedly lied about the election and knew it. 

    Scott Pelley: Were the January 6th protesters duped?

    Thomas Griffith: Yes. 

    Thomas Griffith is a conservative, retired, federal judge who co-authored, “Lost, Not Stolen,” a year-long investigation by conservatives into the 2020 election.

    Thomas Griffith: The conclusion of the report was that there’s no evidence that fraud changed the outcome of an election in any precinct in the United States of America.

    Scott Pelley: In any precinct?

    Thomas Griffith: And all of the evidence, not the speculation, not the conspiracy theories, all the evidence points in one direction. And that is that President Biden won, and President Trump lost.

    Judge Griffith was appointed by George W. Bush to the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. He retired in 2020 after working for years with most of the 29 judges who have heard January 6th cases.

    Thomas Griffith: None of these judges is politically biased. These defendants had every chance in the world to defend themselves against these charges. And they didn’t succeed.

    Scott Pelley: You seem to be saying that justice was done.

    Thomas Griffith: Absolutely, justice was done.

    Thomas Griffith
    Thomas Griffith

    60 Minutes


    Justice for Jerod Hughes meant turning himself in and pleading guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding. The Supreme Court struck down that charge in another case. But if Hughes appeals, he’ll face other charges that prosecutors dropped. So, after 20 months in custody, including prison, he’s decided to just wrap up his last days of home detention.

    Jerod Hughes: If I come to find out that I was dead wrong on this, that the election was actually legit and Joe Biden got the most votes in presidential history, I would be extremely embarrassed. I would hold my hand up and say, “I was wrong, and I was an idiot.” I don’t believe that though. And whether I was right or wrong, I– I believe what we did was patriotic, because we truly believed that the election was stolen, for a number of reasons. We really believed that.

    Though the vote count was delayed, the transfer of power was on time with a new president emerging from that same West Front Tunnel defended by Officer Daniel Hodges.

    Daniel Hodges: If these defendants are pardoned, then so much of what they believe or believed on that day will be justified in their heads that if they do it again that they’ll be protected. And it would be just incredibly destructive for the fabric of the country.

    Now, the trials, themselves, will be judged by voters who will decide whether the defendants were prosecuted as criminals or choir boys.

    Scott Pelley: The allegation is made that the White House is guiding your work.

    Matthew Graves: I’ve never met President Biden let alone talked to him which is normal I would add because there are walls for very good reasons between the Department of Justice and the White House so that prosecution can focus on what it should be focused on, whether there are violations of law, and whether those violations of law consistent with the rules that we follow should be federally prosecuted.

    Scott Pelley: There are people, maybe millions of people in this country, who are skeptical about what you just said. 

    Matthew Graves: No one is being prosecuted for their views. They’re being prosecuted for their acts.

    Editor’s Note: D.C. Metropolitan police officer Daniel Hodges spoke in his personal capacity and not on behalf of his employer or the District of Columbia.

    Produced by Aaron Weisz. Associate producer, Ian Flickinger. Broadcast associates, Michelle Karim. Edited by Daniel J. Glucksman.

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  • Appeals court upholds Steve Bannon’s contempt of Congress conviction

    Appeals court upholds Steve Bannon’s contempt of Congress conviction

    Washington — A three-judge appeals court panel upheld the criminal conviction of former Trump White House chief strategist Steve Bannon in a unanimous decision on Friday, ruling they found “no basis” to depart from binding legal precedent. 

    Bannon was found guilty in 2022 of two misdemeanor counts of contempt of Congress for not responding to a subpoena from the now-defunct House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. At the time, he maintained that he could not testify because of executive privilege concerns raised by former President Donald Trump and said that his one-time attorney, Robert Costello, had advised him not to comply with the subpoena because of the potential privilege. 

    A federal judge in Washington, D.C., ordered ahead of the trial that binding legal precedent prevented Bannon from raising the issue of his attorney’s advice as a defense. After his conviction, the judge, Carl Nichols, sentenced Bannon to four months in prison

    The political strategist and his legal team launched an appeal of the conviction, contending Bannon did not willfully defy Congress by not responding because he was following the counsel of his attorney. Nichols delayed Bannon’s prison sentence while the appeal was pending after finding it was likely that the legal precedent underpinning the decision to forbid the advice of counsel defense would be overturned.  

    But in the ruling issued Friday, Judge Bradley Garcia, who was appointed by President Biden, upheld Nichol’s ruling, writing, “this exact ‘advice of counsel’ defense is no defense at all.” 

    “Nothing in the authorities Bannon relies upon calls into question this court’s longstanding interpretation of ‘willfully’ … as requiring a deliberate, intentional failure to respond to a subpoena,” the judge wrote. 

    The congressional investigators were interested in Bannon’s work in over a dozen key areas, including his communications with former President Donald Trump. 

    Garcia and the two other judges on the panel — Cornelia Pillard, an Obama appointee, and Justin Walker, a Trump appointee — ruled unanimously that Bannon’s decision to disregard the subpoena sufficiently upheld the criminal contempt charges. Legal precedent dictates that the contempt charges do “not require bad faith, evil motive, or unlawful purpose,” they wrote. 

    “Bannon does not dispute that he deliberately refused to comply with the Select Committee’s subpoena in that he knew what the subpoena required and intentionally did not respond; his nonresponse, in other words, was no accident,” the appeals court ruled, pointing to standing legal precedent that they wrote makes clear advice of counsel is “unavailable under this statute.” 

    The judges also rejected other arguments from Bannon’s defense team, including that the Jan. 6 committee was invalid. 

    Bannon’s attorney did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but there are other avenues of appeal that the legal team can pursue, including asking the Supreme Court to look at the matter. 

    Bannon is not the only Trump White House official convicted for defying a subpoena from the House Jan. 6 committee. Former trade advisor Peter Navarro is currently serving a four-month prison sentence after a jury in Washington, D.C. found him guilty of contempt. 

    Like Bannon, Navarro is appealing his conviction and has asked another federal judge to release him from prison into supervised release, citing allegations that he was “denied the opportunity to speak both with the press as well as a with Member of Congress.” 

    It remains unclear what effect Friday’s ruling will have on Bannon’s prison sentence. 

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  • Liz Cheney warns of another Trump presidency, slams GOP

    Liz Cheney warns of another Trump presidency, slams GOP

    Liz Cheney warns of another Trump presidency, slams GOP – CBS News


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    Former Republican Rep. Liz Cheney is sharing some of her grievances with the GOP. CBS News senior political analyst John Dickerson spoke with Cheney in a sit-down interview and he joins “America Decides” to discuss her critiques.

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  • Georgia special grand jury recommended indicting Lindsey Graham, several others

    Georgia special grand jury recommended indicting Lindsey Graham, several others

    Georgia special grand jury recommended indicting Lindsey Graham, several others – CBS News


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    A special purpose grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia, recommended indicting Sen. Lindsey Graham and several others in the 2020 election interference case that saw former President Donald Trump face charges last month, according to a report unsealed Friday. In total, the district attorney indicted 19 people, but the special purpose grand jury had recommended indicting 21 more. Nikole Killion has details.

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  • Former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro convicted of contempt of Congress

    Former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro convicted of contempt of Congress

    Former Trump White House adviser Peter Navarro convicted of contempt of Congress – CBS News


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    Peter Navarro, who served as former President Donald Trump’s chief trade adviser, was convicted Thursday of two counts of criminal contempt of Congress for ignoring a subpoena to testify before the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection.

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  • Ex-Proud Boys leader gets 18-year sentence for Jan. 6 attack

    Ex-Proud Boys leader gets 18-year sentence for Jan. 6 attack

    Ex-Proud Boys leader gets 18-year sentence for Jan. 6 attack – CBS News


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    Ethan Nordean, one of the former leaders of the far-right extremist group Proud Boys, was sentenced Friday to 18 years in prison for his role in the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection. Proud Boys member Dominic Pezzola was also sentenced to 10 years for his role in the attack.

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  • 2 Proud Boys members sentenced in Jan. 6 case

    2 Proud Boys members sentenced in Jan. 6 case

    2 Proud Boys members sentenced in Jan. 6 case – CBS News


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    Two members of the far-right group Proud Boys were sentenced Thursday for their roles in the Jan. 6 2021 assault on the U.S. Capitol. Joseph Biggs was sentenced to 17 years in prison while Zachary Rehl was given a 15-year sentence. Ed O’Keefe reports.

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  • Ray Epps, a Jan. 6 protester now at the center of a far-right conspiracy, says he relives the Capitol riot every day

    Ray Epps, a Jan. 6 protester now at the center of a far-right conspiracy, says he relives the Capitol riot every day

    For millions of consumers of conservative news, Ray Epps is a notorious villain — a provocateur responsible for turning peaceful protests on January 6th into a violent assault on the U.S. Capitol. The irony is that Epps was a passionate supporter of President Trump who went to Washington to protest the 2020 election. But as we first reported in April, his contradictory behavior on January 6th spawned a full-fledged conspiracy theory, casting him as a government agent who incited an insurrection. Today, Epps is in hiding after death threats forced him to sell his home. So who is Ray Epps? Tonight, you’ll hear from the man himself.

    Ray Epps: As soon as President Trump is finished speaking, we are going to the Capitol. It’s that direction.  

    At 6-foot-4, in his desert camouflage, bright red Trump hat, and military-style backpack, Ray Epps stood out from the crowd on January 6th. 

    That’s him running toward the U.S. Capitol alongside the vanguard of rioters who first attacked and overran police.

    Bill Whitaker: What do you think when you see this now?

    Ray Epps: Brings back some bad memories. It’s hard to see our Capitol under attack. 

    It’s been more than two years since the storming of the Capitol, but Ray and his wife Robyn told us they relive January 6th every day of their lives.

    ray-robyn.jpg
    Robyn Epps and Ray Epps

    60 Minutes


    Robyn Epps: Some people have said, “Well, just let it go, and let it die down.”

    Ray Epps: It doesn’t.

    Robyn Epps: What they don’t understand is it doesn’t. 

    Tucker Carlson: What exactly was the role of Ray Epps in the chaos of January 6th?

    The theory Epps, a former member of the Oath Keepers, was an FBI informant who incited the crowd on January 6th bubbled up from a right-wing news site called Revolver News – run by a former Trump speechwriter… 

    Darren Beattie: He is the smoking gun of the entire Fed-surrection.

    And landed on Fox News primetime…

    Laura Ingraham: According to a new investigation from Revolver, Epps may have led the breach team that first entered the Capitol on January 6th…

    The convoluted conspiracy theory made its way to Capitol Hill.

    Matt Gaetz: It’s not the Proud Boys who engage in the initial breach. It’s Ray Epps at that precise moment. 

    Thomas Massie: How did Ray Epps know that there were gonna be pipe bombs?

    Ted Cruz: Ms Sanborn. Who is Ray Epps? 

    That question animated former Fox News host Tucker Carlson for nearly two years.

    Tucker Carlson: Ray Epps? He is on video several times encouraging crimes, riots, breaches of the Capitol…

    Carlson focused on Epps more than 20 times on his top-rated show … a half-dozen times this year.  

    Ray Epps: He’s obsessed with me. He’s going to any means possible to destroy my life and our lives. 

    Bill Whitaker: Why?

    Ray Epps: To shift blame on somebody else. If you look at it, Fox News, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ted Cruz, Gaetz, they’re all tellin’ us before this thing that it was stolen. So you tell me, who has more impact on people, them or me?

    Epps — once a loyal Fox News watcher — told us he doesn’t understand how he got cast as the villain. The Epps’ version is more mundane: they believed the 2020 election had been stolen from Donald Trump… and considered January 6th a legitimate protest.

    Ray Epps: It was a sloppy election. And then to top that off you have talking heads reporting that there’s problems with the voting machines and different things like that. The election’s stolen.  So yeah, we had concerns. I wanted to be there. I wanted to witness this with my own eyes.

    Epps went to Washington with his 36-year-old son and almost immediately stepped into trouble. The conspiracy theory starts here – the night of January 5th.

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): Give me one minute! Give me one minute!

    On the streets of D.C. tensions were running high at a pro-Trump rally being live streamed on the internet. The Marine veteran tried to take charge…

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): I’m gonna put it out there I’m probably gonna go to jail for this. Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol! Into the Capitol! [What?!] Peacefully! [Fed Fed Fed! Fed!] 

    ray-monitor-1.jpg
    Bill Whitaker and Ray Epps look at video from Jan. 6

    60 Minutes


    To some in the crowd, Epps seemed so over the top, he must have been a government agent — a Fed — sent to entrap them.

    Bill Whitaker: When you said, “We have to go into the Capitol, we have to go into the Capitol.” What were you thinking? 

    Ray Epps: I said some stupid things. My thought process, we surround the Capitol, we get all the people there. I mean, I had I had problems with the election. It was my duty as an American to peacefully protest, along with anybody else that wanted to.

    The next morning, January 6th, Epps was out by the Washington Monument… still focused on a single goal.

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 6): We are going to the Capitol, where our problems are. It’s that direction! 

    President Trump (on Jan. 6): We’re going to walk down to the Capitol.

    While President Trump was still speaking at the Ellipse, Ray Epps walked toward the Capitol. He told us he wanted to be up front to help keep the peace. What happened next at Peace Circle where protesters first overran police is seen as a smoking gun. Epps pulled this agitated rioter aside and said something — conspiracists say he was giving marching orders, because seconds later, this happened… the first Capitol police officer goes down.

    Bill Whitaker: As closely as you can remember, what exactly did you say to him?

    Ray Epps: “Dude, we’re not here for that. The police aren’t the enemy,” or somethin’ like that. 

    Bill Whitaker: Did anyone from the federal government direct you to be here at the Peace Circle at this time?

    Ray Epps: No.

    Bill Whitaker: No one from the FBI?

    Ray Epps: No.

    Bill Whitaker: Your old comrades with the Oath Keepers?

    Ray Epps: No.

    ray-epps-video.jpg
    Ray Epps

    60 Minutes


    Bill Whitaker: I think what is so damning about the video is that there’s a barrier there. The barrier gets knocked down. And a police officer, a female police officer gets knocked down. And the mob, including you, walk over the barrier and march on toward the capitol.

    Bill Whitaker: Why didn’t you stop to help this, this police officer who was knocked over?

    Ray Epps: When she was knocked down and I started to go towards her to help her up. And I saw a billy club over here in the corner of my eye. And I thought, “You know, they’re gonna think I’m part of this.” So I backed off.

    Bill Whitaker: You were part of it.

    Ray Epps: I was there. I wasn’t a part of that, knocking her down.

    Robyn Epps: And he wasn’t part of the violence. There’s a big difference there. 

    Bill Whitaker: Is that you there? 

    Ray Epps was never seen committing an act of violence that day, or entering the Capitol. Epps told us when he saw the violence … his fervor to enter the building became a desire to play peacemaker.  

    And police body cam video backs him up. 

    Ray Epps: I thought I could stop it. So I went back and forth. I talked people down. And I just worked the line back and forth. “Step down. Step down. We’re good here,” that kinda thing. And I kept it that way for quite some time. 

    Epps says he left the Capitol grounds to help evacuate an injured man. The time: 2:54 p.m. 

    Ray Epps: I looked back at the Capitol, and there was people crawlin’ up the Capitol walls. And it looked like, it looked terrible. I mean, I was kind of ashamed of what, what was goin’ on at that point. So I started to walk out. 

    He told us that’s when he sent this text to his nephew. Conspiracists saw it as the true confession of an agent provocateur.

    Bill Whitaker: “I was in front with a few others. I also orchestrated it.”  Explain this to me. 

    Ray Epps: I was boasting to my nephew. I helped get people there. I was directing people to the Capitol that morning.

    Bill Whitaker: You know how this sounds?

    Ray Epps: I know exactly how it sounds. I’ve been scolded by my wife for using that word. I shouldn’t have used that word.

    Bill Whitaker: When you add up all of these things, as your critics have done, you’ve given them a lot of ammunition to paint you as this instigator. 

    Ray Epps: There was an effort to make me a scapegoat. 

    Tom Joscelyn: If Ray Epps was a covert plant, he is the worst covert plant of all time. If you are part of some elaborate conspiracy against thousands of people in Washington, D.C., I don’t know why you’d want to stand out from the crowd the way Ray Epps did.

    tom-jocscelyn-1.jpg
    Tom Joscelyn

    60 Minutes


    Tom Joscelyn is a researcher and author, one of the country’s top terrorism experts …  tapped by the January 6th Committee to help write its final report, which found evidence far-right extremists like the Proud Boys planned and executed the breach of the Capitol. He says the committee interviewed Epps — and found he wasn’t important enough to put in the report.

    Tom Joscelyn: I wouldn’t defend Ray Epps or anybody else who was on the Capitol grounds that day. I would just defend the facts. So the idea that he’s leading the charge or really orchestrating it is just contradicted by this mountain range of evidence. And that’s what the conspiracy theorists want you to, want you to do, right? They don’t want you to look at this mountain range of evidence. They want you to turn around and focus on this pebble on the ground named Ray Epps. They also don’t want you to look at what President Trump was saying and doing.

    He calls Epps’ behavior baffling, but not evidence of a conspiracy. 

    Tom Joscelyn: They’ve gotta come up with some sort of connective tissue between Ray Epps and the FBI, and they’ve got none. And so they can make up all sorts of ad hoc arguments to justify their beliefs, but that’s all they are. It’s not actual investigative work. It’s not actual evidence.

    The January 6th Committee looked at the evidence — video, phone records, travel receipts — so did the FBI. When Epps got back to Arizona on January 8th – a relative told him he was on an FBI poster “seeking information” about certain rioters.

    Robyn Epps: We literally hung up the phone and walked right into the house, sat down and called the FBI.

    Bill Whitaker: Do you remember what you said to the FBI?

    Ray Epps: Told ’em who I was, and that I would cooperate in any way I could. I didn’t break any laws.

    Two months later, he met with agents.

    Ray Epps: So when we met with the FBI, I mean, it was like, “Finally. We’re gonna clear this up.” There was no, “I take the Fifth.” There was none of that. It was just like we’re talkin’ right now. I went through everything. And they had a lotta questions.

    In the summer of 2021 the FBI took his picture off the Bureau’s website. Epps thought that would end his troubles, but it only added fuel to the conspiracy. 

    Tucker Carlson: A new piece in “Revolver News” notes that the FBI removed a photo of Ray Epps from its Most Wanted page this summer..

    President Trump: How about the one guy? Go in, in. Go in! Epps. Get in there! Go! Go! Go! Nothing happens to him.

    The Epps would dispute that. After former President Trump mentioned Epps by name, harassment and death threats picked up.

    Bill Whitaker: “I pray,” to come to you to kill you. What do you think when you open a letter like that?

    Robyn Epps: Scares me to death. 

    It got so bad they were forced to sell their 5-acre ranch outside Phoenix. They’re now in hiding, living in this 300-square foot recreational vehicle, somewhere in the Rocky Mountains — we agreed not to disclose exactly where.

    Robyn Epps: It’s so sad what people have done to Ray, and to us, and to our lives. Sometimes I’ve used my maiden name just so that we don’t call attention. 

    Ray Epps: I have a hard time, being a man, being on the, bein’ a Marine, being on the run. I had to do the necessary things to keep my family safe.

    The FBI issued a statement to 60 Minutes in April saying – quote – “Ray Epps has never been an FBI source or an FBI employee.”

    Last month, Epps sued Fox News for defamation, accusing former host Tucker Carlson of promoting a reckless conspiracy theory. Carlson was fired by Fox News the day after this report first aired.

    Produced by Graham Messick. Associate producer, Jack Weingart. Associate producer, Eliza Costas. Edited by Robert Zimet.

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  • Proud Boys member wanted by FBI after skipping his Jan. 6 sentencing hearing

    Proud Boys member wanted by FBI after skipping his Jan. 6 sentencing hearing

    Proud Boys member wanted by FBI after skipping his Jan. 6 sentencing hearing – CBS News


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    Christopher Worrell, a member of the Proud Boys who was convicted of multiple federal charges in connection with the Capitol insurrection, did not appear for his sentencing hearing on Friday in Washington, D.C., and is now wanted by the FBI.

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  • CBS News poll finds after latest Trump indictment, many Americans see implications for democracy. For some, it’s personal

    CBS News poll finds after latest Trump indictment, many Americans see implications for democracy. For some, it’s personal

    America’s response to this week’s indictment of Donald Trump is providing a window into more than just how Americans view his alleged actions per se — but also into what they think it means for democracy itself.

    • Half the nation believes Trump tried to stay in office beyond his term through illegal and unconstitutional means. 
    • To most Americans, such an effort would mean undermining democracy.
    • For them and for a majority of Americans overall, the series of indictments and ongoing investigations against Trump are seen as “defending democracy” and “upholding the rule of law.”
    • Just under a third of the country thinks Trump was trying to stay in office through legal, constitutional means — legal, in part because most of them (and including most Republicans) believe Trump’s claim that the election was illegitimate in the first place. 
    • For most Republicans, the series of indictments are also personal, seeing them as “an attack” on people like them — echoing some of Trump’s rhetoric on the campaign trail. 
    • And big majorities of Republicans think the indictments are an attempt to stop Trump’s 2024 presidential campaign.
    trump-plans-after-2020.png

    trump-undermining-democracy.png

    Most Americans generally describe the multiple indictments Trump is now facing as “upholding the rule of law” and “defending democracy.” 

    Most also think they are an effort to stop Trump’s 2024 campaign, boosted by Republicans who are very likely to think so (but this group actually includes some Democrats, too, perhaps seeing that campaign as a threat to democracy in the same way they see Trump’s actions.)

    indictments-and-investigations.png

    A closer look at partisan differences

    There are more strong party splits over what all these indictments mean. Democrats see it as upholding the law. Republicans see it as a political move, and most Republicans see it personally as an attack on people like them, channeling some of Trump’s campaign points.

    indictments-and-investigations-party.png

    There are some differences within the GOP, though: it’s MAGA-identifiers who see the indictments as an attack on people like them. But nearly all Republicans feel the indictments are an attempt to stop the Trump campaign.

    indictments-and-investigations-maga.png

    Most independents, along with large numbers of Democrats, say that if in fact Trump was trying to overturn an election, that would be undermining democracy.

    trump-undermining-democracy-party.png

    Opinion here seems related to what people believe about the 2020 election. Those who think Joe Biden was not legitimately elected — mostly Republicans — tend to think Trump planned to stay in office through legal processes, and some of them think he was upholding democracy.

    As has been the case since he took office, most Republicans have said they don’t think Mr. Biden was legitimately elected.

    biden-legitimate-winner-party.png

    Where might this go next?

    Concern about an attempted overturn, and concern about political motivations, aren’t mutually exclusive. Many Americans are concerned about both when asked to weigh them. 

    But for Republicans, we see overwhelming concern more about the perceived politics, just as we did when we asked about the charges and politics after the classified documents indictment.

    which-concerns-you-more.png

    which-concerns-you-more-party.png

    There’s a group, about a fifth of the country, who aren’t entirely taking party lines in either direction, who do think Biden won legitimately, and also that Trump didn’t act illegally. Some voice concern the charges are political, but four in 10 of them say that if Trump did try to overturn the election, it would be undermining democracy. So, this would be the group to watch if, in fact, a trial gets underway, but right now, they aren’t paying as much attention to the events.


    This CBS News/YouGov survey was conducted with a nationally representative sample of 2,145 U.S. adult residents interviewed between August 2-4, 2023. The sample was weighted according to gender, age, race, and education based on the U.S. Census American Community Survey and Current Population Survey, as well as past vote. The margin of error is ±2.9 points. 

    Toplines

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  • Prosecutors seek 25-year prison sentence for Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes

    Prosecutors seek 25-year prison sentence for Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes

    The Justice Department is seeking 25 years in prison for Stewart Rhodes, the Oath Keepers founder convicted of seditious conspiracy for what prosecutors described as a violent plot to keep President Joe Biden out of the White House, according to court papers filed Friday.

    A Washington, D.C., jury convicted Rhodes in November in one of the most consequential cases brought in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, when a mob of then-President Donald Trump’s supporters assaulted police officers, smashed windows and temporarily halted Congress’ certification of Biden’s victory.

    The sentencing recommendations come a day after jurors in a different case convicted four leaders of another extremist group, the Proud Boys — including former national chairman Enrique Tarrio — of seditious conspiracy. The Proud Boys were accused of a separate plot to forcibly keep Trump in power after he lost the 2020 election.

    Jurors found Rhodes plotted an armed rebellion with members of his far-right extremist group to stop the transfer of presidential power from Trump to Biden.

    Prosecutors asked the judge to go above the standard sentencing guidelines, arguing the crimes deserve a longer sentence for terrorism because the goal was to influence the government through intimidation or coercion. They also argued Rhodes has not accepted responsibility for his actions, “still presents a threat to American democracy and lives and does not believe he has done anything wrong.”

    In addition to seditious conspiracy, Rhodes was convicted of obstructing Congress’ certification of Biden’s victory. Each charge calls for up to 20 years in prison.

    Prosecutors are seeking prison sentences ranging from 10 to 21 years for eight other Oath Keepers defendants convicted at trials. The Justice Department asked for 21 years behind bars for Kelly Meggs, the Florida chapter leader convicted of the sedition charge alongside Rhodes.

    “These defendants were prepared to fight. Not for their country, but against it. In their own words, they were ‘willing to die’ in a ‘guerilla war’ to achieve their goal of halting the transfer of power after the 2020 Presidential Election,” prosecutors wrote in the nearly 200-page court filing.

    Rhodes is scheduled to be sentenced on May 25. Rhodes’ attorneys haven’t yet filed papers indicating how much time they will ask the judge to impose. They have vowed to appeal his conviction.

    Prosecutors built their case around dozens of encrypted messages and other communications in the weeks leading up to Jan. 6 that showed Rhodes rallying his followers to fight to defend Trump and warning they might need to “rise up in insurrection” to defeat Biden if Trump didn’t act.

    Hundreds of people have been convicted in the attack that left dozens of officers injured and sent lawmakers running for their lives. But Rhodes and Meggs were the first Jan. 6 defendants to be convicted at trial of seditious conspiracy.

    “These defendants stand out among January 6 defendants because they not only joined in this horrific attack on our democracy as it unfolded, but they all took steps, in advance of January 6, to call for and prepare for such an attack,” prosecutors wrote.

    Rhodes, a Yale Law School graduate and former Army paratrooper, didn’t go inside the Capitol. Taking the witness stand at trial, he insisted there was no plan to attack the Capitol and said the Oath Keepers who did acted on their own. Rhodes said the Oath Keepers’ only mission that day was to provide security for Trump ally Roger Stone and other figures at events before the riot.

    Three other defendants on trial with Rhodes and Meggs were acquitted of seditious conspiracy, but convicted of obstructing Congress, which also carries up to 20 years in prison. Another four Oath Keepers were convicted of the sedition charge during a second trial.

    Jurors in Rhodes’ case saw video of his followers wearing combat gear and shouldering their way through the crowd in military-style stack formation before forcing their way into the Capitol.

    Rhodes spent thousands of dollars on an AR-platform rifle, magazines, mounts, sights and other equipment on his way to Washington ahead of the riot, prosecutors told jurors. Prosecutors said Oath Keepers stashed weapons for “quick reaction force” teams prosecutors said were ready to get weapons into the city quickly if they were needed. The weapons were never deployed.

    The trial revealed new details about Rhodes’ efforts to pressure Trump to fight to stay in the White House in the weeks leading up to Jan. 6. Shortly after the election, in a group chat that included Stone, Rhodes wrote, “So will you step up and push Trump to FINALLY take decisive action?”

    Another man testified that after the riot, Rhodes tried to persuade him to pass along a message to Trump that urged the president not to give up his fight to hold onto power. The intermediary — a man who told jurors he had an indirect way to reach the president — recorded his meeting with Rhodes and went to the FBI instead of giving the message to Trump.

    During that meeting, Rhodes said they “should have brought rifles” on Jan. 6.

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  • Ray Epps, a Jan. 6 protester now at the center of a far-right conspiracy, says he relives the Capitol riot every day

    Ray Epps, a Jan. 6 protester now at the center of a far-right conspiracy, says he relives the Capitol riot every day

    For millions of consumers of conservative news, Ray Epps is a notorious villain — a provocateur responsible for turning peaceful protests on January 6th into a violent assault on the U.S. Capitol. The irony is that Epps was a passionate supporter of President Trump who went to Washington to protest the 2020 election. But his often contradictory behavior that day spawned a full-fledged conspiracy theory, casting him as a government agent who incited an insurrection. Today, Epps is in hiding, after death threats forced him to sell his home. So who is Ray Epps? Tonight, you’ll hear from the government, and the man himself.

    Ray Epps: As soon as President Trump is finished speaking, we are going to the Capitol. It’s that direction.  

    At 6-foot-4, in his desert camouflage, bright red Trump hat, and military-style backpack, Ray Epps stood out from the crowd on January 6th. 

    That’s him running toward the U.S. Capitol alongside the vanguard of rioters who first attacked and overran police.

    Bill Whitaker: What do you think when you see this now?

    Ray Epps: Brings back some bad memories. It’s hard to see our Capitol under attack. 

    It’s been more than two years since the storming of the Capitol, but Ray and his wife Robyn told us they relive January 6th every day of their lives.

    ray-robyn.jpg
    Robyn Epps and Ray Epps

    60 Minutes


    Robyn Epps: Some people have said, “Well, just let it go, and let it die down.”

    Ray Epps: It doesn’t.

    Robyn Epps: What they don’t understand is it doesn’t. 

    Tucker Carlson: What exactly was the role of Ray Epps in the chaos of January 6th?

    The theory Epps, a former member of the Oath Keepers, was an FBI informant who incited the crowd on January 6th bubbled up from a right-wing news site called Revolver News – run by a former Trump speechwriter… 

    Darren Beattie: He is the smoking gun of the entire Fed-surrection.

    And landed on Fox News primetime…

    Laura Ingraham: According to a new investigation from Revolver, Epps may have led the breach team that first entered the Capitol on January 6th…

    The convoluted conspiracy theory made its way to Capitol Hill.

    Matt Gaetz: It’s not the Proud Boys who engage in the initial breach. It’s Ray Epps at that precise moment. 

    Thomas Massie: How did Ray Epps know that there were gonna be pipe bombs?

    Ted Cruz: Ms Sanborn. Who is Ray Epps? 

    That question has animated Fox News host Tucker Carlson for nearly two years.

    Tucker Carlson: Ray Epps? He is on video several times encouraging crimes, riots, breaches of the Capitol…

    Carlson has focused on Epps more than 20 times on his top-rated show … a half-dozen times so far this year.  

    Ray Epps: He’s obsessed with me. He’s going to any means possible to destroy my life and our lives. 

    Bill Whitaker: Why?

    Ray Epps: To shift blame on somebody else. If you look at it, Fox News, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ted Cruz, Gaetz, they’re all tellin’ us before this thing that it was stolen. So you tell me, who has more impact on people, them or me?

    Epps — once a loyal Fox News watcher — told us he doesn’t understand how he got cast as the villain. The Epps’ version is more mundane: they believed the 2020 election had been stolen from Donald Trump… and considered January 6th a legitimate protest.

    Ray Epps: It was a sloppy election. And then to top that off you have talking heads reporting that there’s problems with the voting machines and different things like that. The election’s stolen.  So yeah, we had concerns. I wanted to be there. I wanted to witness this with my own eyes.

    Epps went to Washington with his 36-year-old son and almost immediately stepped into trouble. The conspiracy theory starts here – the night of January 5th.

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): Give me one minute! Give me one minute!

    On the streets of D.C. tensions were running high at a pro-Trump rally being live streamed on the internet. The Marine veteran tried to take charge…

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): I’m gonna put it out there I’m probably gonna go to jail for this. Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol! Into the Capitol! [What?!] Peacefully! [Fed Fed Fed! Fed!] 

    ray-monitor-1.jpg
    Bill Whitaker and Ray Epps look at video from Jan. 6

    60 Minutes


    To some in the crowd, Epps seemed so over the top, he must have been a government agent — a Fed — sent to entrap them.

    Bill Whitaker: When you said, “We have to go into the Capitol, we have to go into the Capitol.” What were you thinking? 

    Ray Epps: I said some stupid things. My thought process, we surround the Capitol, we get all the people there. I mean, I had I had problems with the election. It was my duty as an American to peacefully protest, along with anybody else that wanted to.

    The next morning, January 6th, Epps was out by the Washington Monument… still focused on a single goal.

    Ray Epps (on Jan. 6): We are going to the Capitol, where our problems are. It’s that direction! 

    President Trump (on Jan. 6): We’re going to walk down to the Capitol.

    While President Trump was still speaking at the Ellipse, Ray Epps walked toward the Capitol. He told us he wanted to be up front to help keep the peace. What happened next at Peace Circle where protesters first overran police is seen as a smoking gun. Epps pulled this agitated rioter aside and said something — conspiracists say he was giving marching orders, because seconds later, this happened… the first Capitol police officer goes down.

    Bill Whitaker: As closely as you can remember, what exactly did you say to him?

    Ray Epps: “Dude, we’re not here for that. The police aren’t the enemy,” or somethin’ like that. 

    Bill Whitaker: Did anyone from the federal government direct you to be here at the Peace Circle at this time?

    Ray Epps: No.

    Bill Whitaker: No one from the FBI?

    Ray Epps: No.

    Bill Whitaker: Your old comrades with the Oath Keepers?

    Ray Epps: No.

    ray-epps-video.jpg
    Ray Epps

    60 Minutes


    Bill Whitaker: I think what is so damning about the video is that there’s a barrier there. The barrier gets knocked down. And a police officer, a female police officer gets knocked down. And the mob, including you, walk over the barrier and march on toward the capitol.

    Bill Whitaker: Why didn’t you stop to help this, this police officer who was knocked over?

    Ray Epps: When she was knocked down and I started to go towards her to help her up. And I saw a billy club over here in the corner of my eye. And I thought, “You know, they’re gonna think I’m part of this.” So I backed off.

    Bill Whitaker: You were part of it.

    Ray Epps: I was there. I wasn’t a part of that, knocking her down.

    Robyn Epps: And he wasn’t part of the violence. There’s a big difference there. 

    Bill Whitaker: Is that you there? 

    Ray Epps was never seen committing an act of violence that day, or entering the Capitol. Epps told us when he saw the violence … his fervor to enter the building became a desire to play peacemaker.  

    And police body cam video backs him up. 

    Ray Epps: I thought I could stop it. So I went back and forth. I talked people down. And I just worked the line back and forth. “Step down. Step down. We’re good here,” that kinda thing. And I kept it that way for quite some time. 

    Epps says he left the Capitol grounds to help evacuate an injured man. The time: 2:54 p.m. 

    Ray Epps: I looked back at the Capitol, and there was people crawlin’ up the Capitol walls. And it looked like, it looked terrible. I mean, I was kind of ashamed of what, what was goin’ on at that point. So I started to walk out. 

    He told us that’s when he sent this text to his nephew. Conspiracists saw it as the true confession of an agent provocateur.

    Bill Whitaker: “I was in front with a few others. I also orchestrated it.”  Explain this to me. 

    Ray Epps: I was boasting to my nephew. I helped get people there. I was directing people to the Capitol that morning.

    Bill Whitaker: You know how this sounds?

    Ray Epps: I know exactly how it sounds. I’ve been scolded by my wife for using that word. I shouldn’t have used that word.

    Bill Whitaker: When you add up all of these things, as your critics have done, you’ve given them a lot of ammunition to paint you as this instigator. 

    Ray Epps: There was an effort to make me a scapegoat. 

    Tom Joscelyn: If Ray Epps was a covert plant, he is the worst covert plant of all time. If you are part of some elaborate conspiracy against thousands of people in Washington, D.C., I don’t know why you’d want to stand out from the crowd the way Ray Epps did.

    tom-jocscelyn-1.jpg
    Tom Joscelyn

    60 Minutes


    Tom Joscelyn is a researcher and author, one of the country’s top terrorism experts …  tapped by the January 6th Committee to help write its final report, which found evidence far-right extremists like the Proud Boys planned and executed the breach of the Capitol. He says the committee interviewed Epps — and found he wasn’t important enough to put in the report.

    Tom Joscelyn: I wouldn’t defend Ray Epps or anybody else who was on the Capitol grounds that day. I would just defend the facts. So the idea that he’s leading the charge or really orchestrating it is just contradicted by this mountain range of evidence. And that’s what the conspiracy theorists want you to, want you to do, right? They don’t want you to look at this mountain range of evidence. They want you to turn around and focus on this pebble on the ground named Ray Epps. They also don’t want you to look at what President Trump was saying and doing.

    He calls Epps’ behavior baffling, but not evidence of a conspiracy. 

    Tom Joscelyn: They’ve gotta come up with some sort of connective tissue between Ray Epps and the FBI, and they’ve got none. And so they can make up all sorts of ad hoc arguments to justify their beliefs, but that’s all they are. It’s not actual investigative work. It’s not actual evidence.

    The January 6th Committee looked at the evidence — video, phone records, travel receipts — so did the FBI. When Epps got back to Arizona on January 8th – a relative told him he was on an FBI poster “seeking information” about certain rioters.

    Robyn Epps: We literally hung up the phone and walked right into the house, sat down and called the FBI.

    Bill Whitaker: Do you remember what you said to the FBI?

    Ray Epps: Told ’em who I was, and that I would cooperate in any way I could. I didn’t break any laws.

    Two months later, he met with agents.

    Ray Epps: So when we met with the FBI, I mean, it was like, “Finally. We’re gonna clear this up.” There was no, “I take the Fifth.” There was none of that. It was just like we’re talkin’ right now. I went through everything. And they had a lotta questions.

    In the summer of 2021 the FBI took his picture off the Bureau’s website. Epps thought that would end his troubles, but it only added fuel to the conspiracy. 

    Tucker Carlson: A new piece in “Revolver News” notes that the FBI removed a photo of Ray Epps from its Most Wanted page this summer..

    President Trump: How about the one guy? Go in, in. Go in! Epps. Get in there! Go! Go! Go! Nothing happens to him.

    The Epps would dispute that. After former President Trump mentioned Epps by name, harassment and death threats picked up.

    Bill Whitaker: “I pray,” to come to you to kill you. What do you think when you open a letter like that?

    Robyn Epps: Scares me to death. 

    It got so bad they were forced to sell their 5-acre ranch outside Phoenix. They’re now in hiding, living in this 300-square foot recreational vehicle, somewhere in the Rocky Mountains — we agreed not to disclose exactly where.

    Robyn Epps: It’s so sad what people have done to Ray, and to us, and to our lives. Sometimes I’ve used my maiden name just so that we don’t call attention. 

    Ray Epps: I have a hard time, being a man, being on the, bein’ a Marine, being on the run. I had to do the necessary things to keep my family safe.

    If you’re wondering what the FBI has to say about all this – for the past two years it has said nothing. After repeated queries by 60 Minutes, late this past week the Bureau issued this statement: “Ray Epps has never been an FBI source or an FBI employee.”

    Produced by Graham Messick. Associate producer, Jack Weingart. Associate producer, Eliza Costas. Edited by Robert Zimet.

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  • Liz Cheney joins University of Virginia as professor

    Liz Cheney joins University of Virginia as professor

    Liz Cheney looks to future after primary loss


    Rep. Liz Cheney looks to the future after Wyoming primary loss

    07:41

    Washington — Former Rep. Liz Cheney, the Wyoming Republican who was ousted from House GOP leadership over her criticism of former President Donald Trump and lost a primary battle last year, is joining the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics as a “professor of practice,” the center announced Wednesday. 

    “Preserving our constitutional republic is the most important work of our time, and our nation’s young people will play a crucial role in this effort,” Cheney said. “I hope my work with the Center for Politics and the broader community at the University of Virginia will contribute to finding lasting solutions that not only preserve, but strengthen our democracy.” 

    Cheney was the third highest-ranking Republican in the House when she voted to impeach Trump one week after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. Her colleagues voted to strip her of her position as conference chair several months later. She went on to serve as vice chair of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 riot, becoming one of Trump’s most prominent and outspoken critics.

    Cheney was defeated in a bitter primary battle with now-Rep. Harriet Hageman last August. In the weeks leading up to the 2022 midterm elections, she campaigned with some Democrats running against Republican candidates who denied the results of the 2020 election. 

    “With democracy under fire in this country and elsewhere around the world, Liz Cheney serves as a model of political courage and leadership,” said Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics. “Liz will send a compelling message to students about integrity. She’s a true profile in courage, and she was willing to pay the price for her principles and democracy itself.”

    Her appointment at the Center for Politics is effective immediately and will run through the end of the fall semester, with the option to renew. She will participate in university-wide lectures, be a guest lecturer in student seminars and contribute to the center’s research, the announcement said. 

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  • Jan. 6 transcripts reveal new details

    Jan. 6 transcripts reveal new details

    The House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol released several batches of transcripts from interviews with key staffers and allies of former President Donald Trump. 

    The transcripts were released as the committee wound down its work at the end of the 117th Congress, before Republicans officially take control of the House on Tuesday. The interviews, conducted over the past year and a half, were part of the investigation into the Jan. 6 attack and Trump’s role in the day’s events. 

    In their last public hearing, held on Dec. 19, the committee voted to refer to the Justice Department possible criminal charges against Trump and attorney John Eastman

    Here are some key details from the transcripts that were released:

    John Eastman takes the 5th

    Eastman, who wrote the controversial memo that proposed that former Vice President Mike Pence had the authority to delay or even reject the certification of state electors, exercised his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination at almost every major question. 

    When Eastman was asked why he had written in the two-page memo that seven states had transmitted dual slates of electors despite indicating to The New York Times that there we no certifications of alternate electors, he took the Fifth. He also took the Fifth when asked if he disagreed with former Attorney General Bill Barr’s comment that Trump’s election claims were “bullsh**,” and when asked about comments he made on Jan. 6. 

    Eastman also pleaded the Fifth when asked if he had recommendations to prevent Jan. 6 from happening again.

    Hope Hicks says “we all look like domestic terrorists now”

    Text messages from Trump’s communications director Hope Hicks, one of his most loyal aides, were released by the select committee on Monday. 

    In one exchange with Julie Radford, Ivanka Trump’s chief of staff, Hicks wrote, “In one day he ended every future opportunity that doesn’t include speaking engagements at the local proud boys chapter. And all of us that didn’t have jobs lined up will be perpetually unemployed. I’m so mad and upset … We all look like domestic terrorists now.”

    Radford responded, “oh yes, I’ve been crying for an hour.” 

    Hicks then wrote, “She has no idea this made us all unemployable … Like untouchable … God I’m so f***** mad.”

    Ginni Thomas: “I regret the tone and content” of texts with Meadows

    Virginia Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, attended the rally at the Ellipse on Jan. 6, 2021 before the Capitol was breached. She also exchanged texts with Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows encouraging him to pursue every effort to overturn the election.

    Committee vice chair Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., asked her if she regretted sending the texts, or just that the texts became public.

    “I regret the tone and content of these texts,” Thomas said. “And other than that, it was an emotional time, and I was texting with a friend who I had known a long time.  So I really find my language imprudent and my choices of sending the context of these emails unfortunate.”

    Kellyanne Conway texted Melania Trump on Jan. 6 because Trump has a “fear” of her

    Trump 2016 campaign manager and former top adviser Kellyanne Conway resigned in the summer of 2020 but remained close to the Trump family. Conway told the committee that she was trying to get through to Trump on Jan. 6, contacting Hicks and Trump aide Nick Luna, among others. Conway said she also texted Melania Trump. 

    “I texted her, please — something to the effect of, you know, please talk to him, because I know he listens to her,” Conway said. “He reserves — he listens to many of us, but he reserves fear for one person, Melania Trump.”

    Conway said the first lady didn’t answer because she didn’t have her phone that day.

    Stephanie Grisham: Trump would never go to the Capitol because he is “afraid of people”

    Melania Trump’s former chief of staff Stephanie Grisham, who also served as a White House aide, told the committee that Melania Trump lost her “independent streak” in the final weeks of the administration.

    Grisham also said that Trump and chief of staff Mark Meadows tried to fire the usher at the White House after Election Day because he was preparing for the transition for then-President-elect Joe Biden to move in. 

    At another point, Grisham said that Trump would not have walked to the Capitol on Jan. 6 because he is “afraid of people.”

    Cassidy Hutchinson: “They will ruin my life” 

    Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide to Meadows, gave blockbuster public testimony at a House Jan. 6 committee hearing on June 28. In an interview with the committee in September, she said she couldn’t afford a lawyer and was worried about finding a pro bono attorney.

    “I wanted to be able to do this on my own, and I didn’t want to feel like I was using an attorney in Trump world where I’d potentially have to be responding to their interests as well,” Hutchinson said. 

    Former White House attorney Eric Herschmann connected Hutchinson with Alex Cannon, she said. Cannon told Hutchinson that “they” had a lawyer for her, but did not disclose who would be paying for it. Hutchinson met with Stefan Passantino, who represented her for her first two interviews with the committee. In a February meeting, Hutchinson testified that Passantino told her they would “downplay” her role at the White House and on Jan. 6.

    Hutchinson said she was uncomfortable with the arrangement but felt she had no other choice, telling the committee that she said to her mother, “I am completely indebted to these people … they will ruin my life, Mom, if I do anything they don’t want me to.” 

    Hutchinson said Passantino told her to keep her answers “short” and said that saying “I don’t recall” is an “entirely acceptable” response because “they don’t know that you recall some of these things.” She told the committee that testifying with him as her lawyer was “felt like (she) had Trump looking over (her) shoulder.” 

    “I knew in some fashion it would get back to him if I said anything that he would find disloyal. And the prospect of that genuinely scared me. You know, I’d seen this world ruin people’s lives or try to ruin people’s careers. I’d seen how vicious they can be,” Hutchinson said. 

    She also told the committee that Passantino also mentioned job opportunities and worked to connect her with other people on getting a job, saying, “We’re gonna get you taken care of. We want to keep you in the family.”

    [Need to add that Passantino has said that he told her to tell the truth, etc., which I believe was his statement.]

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  • Exclusive: Trump aide testified he saw Trump “tearing” documents; Meadows also once told him, “Don’t come into the room”

    Exclusive: Trump aide testified he saw Trump “tearing” documents; Meadows also once told him, “Don’t come into the room”

    Nick Luna, a former White House aide to President Donald Trump, told the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021 assault on the Capitol that he witnessed Trump “tearing” documents, according to audio files of Luna’s deposition that were obtained by CBS News.

    “Did I ever see him tear up notes? I don’t know what the documents were but there [was] tearing,” Luna said in his Mar. 21 testimony before the committee. 

    According to the Presidential Records Act, federal law requires that presidential records are carefully preserved and then handed over to the National Archives.

    When asked again by Dan George, the committee’s senior investigative counsel, whether Trump tore up some documents, Luna replied, “That’s correct.”

    But Luna said that he did not recall any details about documents that might have been destroyed. 

    Luna, who served as Trump’s personal aide inside the White House, had extraordinary access to the president during the final weeks of Trump’s term and managed Oval Office operations. And he was one of the staffers who was regularly with Trump on the day of the attack on the Capitol.

    US-POLITICS-CAPITOL-UNREST
    FILE: Image of Former President Donald Trump (L) and former White House aide Nick Luna on a screen during a hearing by the House Jan. 6 select committee, Cannon House Office Building in Washington, DC, July 21, 2022.

    AL DRAGO/POOL/AFP via Getty Images


    The audio files also reveal that Luna testified that White House chief of staff Mark Meadows had instructed him to not enter the room ahead of a meeting with state Republican legislators who wanted to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

    “There was one instance where it would normally be my job to go in and make sure that [the] president is comfortable in wherever  the situation is,” Luna told the committee. “And I remember, specifically, this instance [Meadows] had said, ‘Do not, don’t come in, don’t come into the room today.”

    Luna testified that he was unsure of why Meadows allegedly told him to stay out of the room, and he could not remember when exactly the White House chief of staff told him not to enter. But he said he recalled the directive occurred as Meadows was preparing to meet with visiting state Republican legislators.

    Trump had several documented West Wing meetings with allied state Republican lawmakers in the post-election period, including a Nov. 20, 2020, meeting with Michigan legislators and a Nov. 25, 2020, meeting with Pennsylvania legislators. Both of those sessions included discussions about whether state legislatures could take legal or legislative steps to overturn the election results in those respective states, which were carried by President Joe Biden, according to two Trump advisers who were not authorized to speak publicly.

    “I just remember [Meadows] being around the office,” Luna told the House select committee. “I don’t remember if it was the Michigan or Pennsylvania. I didn’t know — I don’t remember that those were the places. But I do remember him on, on one or the other of those being, before going into the meeting, in my office.”

    When pressed on the context and on whether it was odd for Meadows to ask him to stay out of the room, Luna said he was uncertain of the context but noted it was rare.

    “It may have been one of two or three times that he asked me to do that,” Luna said. “But that’s not — I don’t know if odd would be the right characterization.”

    Luna then reiterated, when asked again, that it was “correct” to conclude that it was a “rare occurrence” for him to be asked to stay out of the room ahead of a Trump meeting.

    His deposition, which was conducted virtually, was in response to a subpoena issued to him by the committee the previous November.

    “Nick Luna testified fully and honestly and doesn’t have any further comments,” Luna’s counsel told CBS News on Tuesday.

    A spokesman for the House select committee declined to comment.

    In a statement, the Trump campaign told CBS News, “The January 6th Unselect Committee held show trials by Never Trump partisans who are a stain on this country’s history. This Kangaroo court has been nothing more than a vanity project that insults Americans’ intelligence and makes a mockery of our democracy.”

    A lawyer for Meadows could not be reached. 

    Luna’s testimony about Trump’s alleged tearing of documents follows previous reports that Trump ripped up documents. Reporter Maggie Haberman of The New York Times reported earlier this year that “on some occasions, Mr. Trump would rip up documents — some with his handwriting on them — and throw the pieces in a toilet, which occasionally clogged the pipes in the White House.” 

    While the House select committee is finishing much of its work this week and plans to issue its final report and material on Wednesday, including the release of some of the interview transcripts, the Justice Department has also been investigating Trump and his allies. Those efforts include grand jury investigations into the Capitol attack and related attempts to block the congressional certification of President Joe Biden’s election, as well as Trump’s handling of classified records.

    The Justice Department has also appointed a special counsel who will ultimately decide whether or not Trump should be indicted. The former president announced last month that he is running for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.   

    On Monday, the committee recommended the Justice Department pursue at least four criminal charges against Trump related to his alleged efforts to thwart the transfer of presidential power – a historic yet largely symbolic move that marks the first time a former president has been the subject of a criminal referral by Congress.

    For reference, here are the exchanges from the audio files that were played on “CBS Evening News” on Dec. 20, 2022.

    On Trump’s handling of documents

    DAN GEORGE: It looks like it’s hard to see in here, but you can see somewhat of a tear just above, starting above the word ‘out’ and then continuing across the line. Do you know whether the president ever tore up notes when he was finished with them?

    LUNA: Yes.

    GEORGE: Okay. And just to be clear, did the president tear up notes when he was finished with them?

    NICK LUNA: Yes. I mean, at times. I don’t know. Did I ever see him tear up notes? I don’t know what the documents were, but there [was] tearing.

    GEORGE: Okay. So — and not asking you to account for every single note or piece of paper that crossed the president’s desk — but you are aware that at least sometimes the president would tear up notes or pieces of paper when he was done with them. Is that correct?

    LUNA: Yes, sir, that’s correct.

    On an exchange with Mark Meadows

    NICK LUNA: So, if my memory serves me correct, there was the meeting with, I don’t even remember whether they were from, people that were from, state legislators or they were state senators or something like that. And I do remember Mr. Meadows being, um, I don’t know if he was in charge of it, but I do remember him having a part in that. But that’s what I’m thinking about. And in terms of like, yeah, that may have been a conversation that I, not a conversation, but a directive that was in his, you know, in, that I remember correctly.

    GEORGE: Okay. And what I’m going to do, I’m about to say something, not to suggest anything, but to see if it shakes anything loose. What we call refreshing recollection. But there was a state legislature, a group from the Pennsylvania state legislature, who came down at the end of November, November 25, after a hearing in Pennsylvania. There were also state legislators who came from Michigan. Speaker Chatfield and Senator Shirkey. Did one of those events or meetings — does that refresh your recollection about what you just mentioned with respect to Mr. Meadows and what he was doing?

    LUNA: I definitely, I did not know where the people were from and I did not attend the meetings and I did not — I wasn’t a party to that. But I do remember, um, the, the chief having, having a role in, I don’t. I don’t know. I mean, I just remember him being around the office. That, and I don’t remember if it was the Michigan or Pennsylvania. I didn’t know that. I don’t remember that those were the places. But I do remember him on a on one or the other those being, before going into the meeting, in my office.

    DAN GEORGE: You mentioned his role. Do you know what his role was with respect to those meetings or coming out of those meetings?

    NICK LUNA: I do not, sir. No.

    DAN GEORGE: Do you remember Mr. Meadows saying anything to you about any of those meetings?

    NICK LUNA: I do. Yes sir, I do. 

    DAN GEORGE: What’d he say?

    NICK LUNA: There was one instance where it would normally be my job to go in and make sure that the President is comfortable in wherever the situation is — if he’s sitting in the chair or something like that. And I remember specifically this instance he had said, do not, don’t come in. Don’t come into the room today.

    DAN GEORGE: Mr. Meadows said that to you.

    NICK LUNA: Correct.

    DAN GEORGE: Did he ever tell you why not to come into the room?

    NICK LUNA: He did not.

    DAN GEORGE: Did you think that was odd, just based on your experience working at the White House? 

    NICK LUNA: I don’t know, I mean, there are so many types of meetings and, you know, classified. Otherwise, it wasn’t you know, I don’t know if it was necessarily odd. It would, it may have been one of two or three times that he asked me to do that. But that’s not, I don’t know if I would be the right characterization.

    DAN GEORGE: Okay. But that didn’t happen very frequently. It sounds like it was a rare occurrence that you were told not to come into a meeting like that.

    NICK LUNA: Correct.

     

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  • Jan. 6th Committee member Jamie Raskin on Trump:

    Jan. 6th Committee member Jamie Raskin on Trump:

    After more than a thousand interviews and hours of televised hearings, one of the highest-profile Congressional investigations since Watergate, the January 6th Committee, will soon release a sweeping report. The looming question: will the report urge the Justice Department to prosecute former President Donald Trump?

    For now, the committee is coy. But Maryland Democrat Jamie Raskin, one of its leading members, has reached his own, personal conclusion on whether Trump committed a crime. “Well, absolutely,” he said. “I mean, for one thing, there’s this mega-offense of coup and insurrection against the constitutional democracy. But then that mega-offense includes hundreds of statutory criminal offenses. And I think – speaking personally – that Donald Trump could be prosecuted for several of them.”

    CBS News chief election and campaign correspondent Robert Costa asked, “But this report could be the basis, in your view, for prosecution?”

    “Yeah, I think that it could be,” Raskin replied. “It was Donald Trump who sent out the tweet heard ’round the alt-right underworld to gather on January 6th. He wanted to ride in like Mussolini on the shoulders of the mob so that he could seize the presidency.”

    trump-tweet.jpg

    Twitter


    Raskin and David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker magazine, sat down to discuss the potential impact of the Committee’s report. Remnick will publish the report as a book, which will include an essay from Raskin (who received no payment).

    Costa asked, “Are you confident people will sit down and read this report?”

    Remnick said, “I think about that all the time when we publish a 25,000-word piece in The New Yorker that’s deeply detailed and fact-checked. And I’ve come to the conclusion over time that it’s absorbed in different ways. Yes, there are the people that immediately read it, they hungrily read it. Then two weeks later it’s, ‘By the way, did you look at that piece in The New Yorker?’ And it has an effect.”

    costa-raskin-remnick.jpg
    CBS News’ Robert Costa with January 6th Committee member Rep. Jamie Raskin, and New Yorker editor David Remnick. 

    CBS News


    Having an effect has been the Committee’s mission. But its work has been challenged by many in Washington who declared the hearings would change few minds, even when the revelations were startling, such as reports of attempts to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully.

    The results of the midterm elections, where Trump allies took a beating, cracked open that conventional wisdom.

    Raskin said, “Had we lost those elections by 40 or 50 votes, as various pundits and strategists and historians were predicting, undoubtedly everybody would’ve been saying, ‘The Democrats should not have focused on the Constitution and democracy. The Democrats should’ve not focused on reproductive freedom, and the rights and liberties of the people.’”

    Coast asked, “Perhaps, looking back, was the alarm loud enough?”

    “Well, we certainly sounded the alarm as vociferously as we could,” Raskin said. “I think that the American public grasped the essential elements of the story: Donald Trump was a guy who just would not take no for an answer from the American people, and set about to overthrow an election.”

    This past week, Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes was found guilty of seditious conspiracy for a plot to keep Trump in power. He faces a maximum of 20 years in prison. 

    The former president who has declared his candidacy for 2024 has denied any wrongdoing, and has refused to testify before the House Committee. But Trump still faces multiple state and federal investigations.

    Coast asked Remnick, “What would it mean for the country if there is, at the end of the day, no consequence for Trump?”

    “I keep thinking if there’s no consequence for Trump, even if he loses, even if he kind of burns out the way a lot of commentators are suggesting that he’s in the process of doing, I think that’s a sad day, that there’s no consequence,” he replied.

    Raskin said, “People are hungering for justice and for accountability and consequences here. Injustice runs free for a long time before the mechanisms of justice and the rule of law can operate. That’s what it means to live in a free society. We don’t just sweep people off of the street, even a tyrant like Donald Trump, and just declare them guilty and throw them in solitary confinement.”

    “So, people should have patience? Even though these trials are taking a long time, the grand juries are taking years?”

    “Yes,” said Raskin. “There have been more than 950 prosecutions, I think it is now. We’ve had dozens and dozens of people convicted. But I know that people feel that we need to make sure that accountability runs all the way to the top. Just because you’re elected president, or used to be president, does not give you the right to engage in crimes freely.”

    This Tuesday, a ceremony will be held in the Capitol Rotunda honoring the U.S. Capitol and Metropolitan Police who defended the center of our democracy.

         
    For more info: 

           
    Story produced by Ed Forgotson. Editor: Joseph Frandino. 

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  • Former White House deputy chief of staff Anthony Ornato meets with Jan. 6 committee

    Former White House deputy chief of staff Anthony Ornato meets with Jan. 6 committee

    Anthony Ornato — a former White House deputy chief of staff in the Trump administration, as well as a former longtime Secret Service official — was interviewed virtually by the Jan. 6 House select committee on Tuesday, according to two sources briefed on the testimony. The interview lasted roughly five to six hours. 

    Ornato was the subject of former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson‘s explosive public testimony to the committee earlier this year, in which she described Ornato telling her about the president lunging toward a Secret Service agent when told he could not go to the Capitol after his Jan. 6, 2021, speech on the Ellipse. 

    Hutchinson, who was a top aide to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified that she had met with Ornato and Robert Engel, the Secret Service special agent in charge on Jan. 6, shortly after Trump returned from his remarks. 

    According to Hutchinson, Ornato told her that the president had become “irate” on the way back to the White House after being told he could not go to the Capitol. Ornato also told her, Hutchinson testified, that when Trump was told that he had to return to the White House, Trump reached up to the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, prompting Engel to grab his arm.

    According to Hutchinson, Ornato said Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Engel. She said Ornato “motioned towards his clavicles” when describing the incident. 

    On Tuesday, according to the sources, Ornato did not invoke his Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination or abstain from any line of questioning during the interview, but told lawmakers and committee staff that he did not recall the conversation with Hutchinson. Counsel for Ornato did not respond to CBS News’ request for comment. 

    Republican Rep. Liz Cheney and Democratic Reps. Jamie Raskin and Zoe Lofgren attended the interview, a source briefed on the matter told CBS News. 

    Ornato, a 25-year veteran of federal law enforcement who served under five presidents, retired from the Secret Service in August. 

    Rebecca Kaplan contributed to this report. 

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  • Secret Service officials to testify before House Jan. 6 committee, sources say

    Secret Service officials to testify before House Jan. 6 committee, sources say

    The House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol is planning to interview key Secret Service officials and agents in the coming weeks, two sources briefed on the ongoing investigation tell CBS News. 

    The committee will bring back former Secret Service Assistant Director Tony Ornato, who is now retired, and Robert Engel, former President Trump’s lead Secret Service agent on Jan. 6. Both men have already been interviewed by the committee, but they were both mentioned in blockbuster public testimony by former Trump aide Cassidy Hutchinson

    Hutchinson testified on June 28 that Ornato told her that the president became “irate” on Jan. 6 when he was told in his vehicle that he could not go to the Capitol. Hutchinson testified that Ornato told her Trump said something to the effect of “I’m the effing president, take me up to the Capitol now.” Hutchinson also testified Ornato said that when Trump was told he had to return to the White House, he reached up to the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel, prompting Engel to grab his arm, and that then Trump used his free hand to lunge toward Engel. She said Engel was in the room when Ornato told her this and he did not dispute it. 

    A source close to the Secret Service told confirmed to CBS News that Engel and the driver were prepared to testify under oath that neither man was physically attacked or assaulted by Trump and that the former president never lunged for the steering wheel of the vehicle. The source did not dispute that Trump demanded to be taken to the Capitol or his language. 

    TOPSHOT-US-POLITICS-ELECTION-TRUMP
    TOPSHOT – US President Donald Trump arrives to speak to supporters from The Ellipse near the White House on January 6, 2021, in Washington, DC. 

    BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI/AFP via Getty Images


    Katie Driscoll, an attorney for Ornato, said in a statement to CBS News that “Mr. Ornato continues to cooperate in the Jan. 6 select committee’s investigation.” 

    CNN was the first to report the planned interviews.   

    Other witnesses who will testify in the coming weeks include Kimberly Cheatle, the current Secret Service director who served as assistant director of protective operations on Jan. 6; Anthony Guglielmi, current chief of communications; Timothy Giebels, the lead of former Vice President Mike Pence’s security detail; and the unnamed driver of Trump’s vehicle on that day. 

    It’s not yet clear if the former and current Secret Service officials will testify before the committee in a public setting or behind closed doors. 

    Cheatle and Engel were among those whose phones were turned over to the Department of Homeland Security’s inspector general, as part of DHS Inspector General Joseph Cuffari’s investigation into missing Secret Service text messages from Jan. 5 and Jan. 6, 2021. The agents’ text messages were previously subpoenaed by the inspector general and the House select committee investigating the Capitol riot. 

    The committee has issued a subpoena to the former president, as the committee’s end-of-year deadline to complete its work rapidly approaches. Trump has not yet publicly responded. 

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  • Elaine Chao testifies about why she resigned from Trump administration after Jan. 6

    Elaine Chao testifies about why she resigned from Trump administration after Jan. 6

    The ninth and likely final public final hearing from the House Jan. 6 select committee took place on Thursday and the committee shared previously recorded testimony from former Trump administration officials, including former Transportation secretary Elaine Chao, who spoke about why she ultimately left the administration after watching the Jan. 6 attack unfold. 

    Chao, the wife of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, resigned her post on Jan. 7, 2021, one day after the insurrection, telling department employees at the time “it has deeply troubled me in a way I cannot set aside.”

    In video testimony, she said the events on Jan. 6 were “shocking.” “And it was something that, as I mentioned in my statement, that I could not put aside,” she said.

    elainechao.jpg
    Elaine Chao, introduces her husband U.S. Senate Republican Leader Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) during a campaign stop at the Lexington airport in Lexington, Kentucky, May 19, 2014. 

    REUTERS


    Chao testified that the events of that day made it was impossible for her to continue in the administration due to her personal values and philosophy. “I came as an immigrant to this country. I believe in this country. I believe in the peaceful transfer of power. I believe in democracy. And so, it was a decision that I made on my own,” she said. 

    Chao immigrated to the U.S. when she was in third grade not knowing how to speak English, according to her website. She received her citizenship at the age of 19 and the experience of transitioning to a new country “motivated her to ensure that everyone has access to the opportunities in our country.” 

    She attended Harvard Business School and after holding several roles in the public and private sector, she became the first Asian American woman to be appointed to the President’s cabinet in U.S. history. She was first appointed as secretary of labor under President by George W. Bush in 2001 and then secretary of transportation under Trump in 2017.

    Earlier this month, President Trump used a racial slur against Chao on his social media platform Truth Social. In the post, Trump criticized both Chao and her husband. In an interview with CBS News’ “Red & Blue” earlier this month, Marc Short, a senior adviser to former Vice President Mike Pence said it was “obviously wrong” for the former president to use a “racial slur” against Chao.

    Short, and onetime director of legislative affairs under then-President Trump, called the post “erroneous,” to say the least, highlighting how much Chao has done for the cause of freedom in China. 

    “When I — when I saw those tweets at midnight, I sort of assumed the president had taken to drinking at that point,” Short joked. “I think that you know, it’s important to remember that Elaine Chao and her family have been strong crusaders against communist China their whole lives. She’s devoted herself to that. She’s spent time outside of government working at Heritage Foundation, fighting the cause for freedom. She, her family is actually from Taiwan. I think that that certainly was a misplaced and erroneous tweet, to say the least.”

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  • Watch Live: House Jan. 6 committee hearing expected to focus on Trump’s mindset after 2020 election

    Watch Live: House Jan. 6 committee hearing expected to focus on Trump’s mindset after 2020 election


    Jan. 6 hearings resume for what could be last public hearing

    03:21

    Committee aides would not say whether they had any further engagement with Trump or former Vice President Mike Pence about testifying. Pence said this summer that he’d “consider” testifying before the committee.

    Rep. Bennie Thompson, the committee chair, said last month that the committee plans to put together an interim report in mid-October, with a final report to come before the end of the year, after the midterm elections.

    The committee held a series of public hearings over the summer that were also broadcast nationally. The hearings showed never-before-seen video from the attack but also showed video testimony from Trump administration officials about his refusal to accept election results and plans by his allies to replace electors in battleground states that President Joe Biden won while also threatening local and state elections officials

    Thompson confirmed over the summer that the committee has been having “conversations” with the Justice Department about the phony elector plan. In the June 21 public hearing, committee member Rep. Adam Schiff said those fake electors ultimately met on Dec. 14, 2020, in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, Nevada and Wisconsin, signing documents claiming they were duly elected electors from their state. 

    The committee said that GOP Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin wanted to hand deliver alternate, fraudulent electors to Pence ahead of the joint session of Congress, according to texts the committee provided.

    The hearings highlighted Trump and his allies’ pressure campaigns on different branches of government to overturn the 2020 election results, including the former president’s attempt to install environmental lawyer Jeffrey Clark at the helm of the Justice Department, attorney John Eastman’s argument to Pence that he had the power to override the Electoral College, and Rudy Giuliani’s attempts to influence local and state elections officials.

    The hearings also featured in-person testimony from former Trump administration officials, a former Fox News political editor, a Capitol police officer, a rioter who pleaded guilty, among others.

    The hearings included bombshell revelations about Trump’s reaction to the Jan. 6 attack.

    Hutchinson and other former White House aides testified – both in person and on video testimony – that they knew Trump had lost the election and that pushing the narrative that he had won was a lie. Sarah Matthews, a former deputy press secretary, testified that as violence erupted at the Capitol, the press office was arguing over Trump’s response and seemed taken aback that a colleague didn’t want to condemn the rioting because doing so would be “handing a win to the media.”

    “I couldn’t believe that we were arguing over this in the middle of the West Wing .. And so, I motioned up at the TV and said, ‘Do you think it looks like we’re f’ing winning? Because I don’t think it does,’” Matthews said. 

    In that same hearing, the committee played a never-before-seen video showing Trump rehearsing to give a statement on Jan. 7, 2021. Even after the mayhem of Jan. 6 and that Congress had certified the Electoral College count, Trump refused to say he had lost the election. 

    “I would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack yesterday, and to those who broke the law, you will pay,” Trump said in the footage. “You do not represent our movement, you do not represent our country, and if you broke the law — can’t say that. I already said you will pay…”

    “But this election is now over. Congress has certified the results,” he continued, before stopping and presumably addressing his aides. “I don’t want to say the election’s over. I just want to say Congress has certified the results without saying the election’s over.” 

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