Sometimes, just the reactions to a question confirm it is a good one.
“You’re throwing yourself into the fire with that one, so have fun with that.”
“You are making me think way too hard too early in the morning.” (For context, this was said at 11 a.m.)
“So anyway … good luck with that. It does seem like an impossible question.”
Here is the question: A proverbial Mount Rushmore for the Colorado Avalanche includes Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Nathan MacKinnon and …?
Here are the choices: One of the two greatest goaltenders in the history of the sport, who backstopped the Avs to a pair of Stanley Cup championships? Or the best defenseman on the planet right now, who might spend his entire career with the franchise and end up as one of the best to ever do it at his position as well?
Patrick Roy? Or Cale Makar? This is intended to be a lighthearted, fun debate.
But also, choose your fighter.
“Anytime you’re trying to pick four guys from a historic franchise with some really historic teams, it’s going to be difficult,” Avs defenseman Devon Toews said. “Nobody’s going to be happy, no matter what you write. Cale is a name that should obviously be in consideration. By the end of his career, he is probably one of the first names on that list.
“There’s great players that you’re able to put on, and 10 others that probably deserve to be.”
Sakic and Forsberg are obvious as icons who came with the franchise from Quebec City, and two of the most popular players in league history. MacKinnon has already surpassed Forsberg — at least in the latter’s eyes — and cemented his place with league MVP honors in 2024.
Makar, predictably, quickly deferred to Roy. MacKinnon, full transparency here, wasn’t even asked to chime in. Both of those guys are humble about their legacies and accomplishments, almost to a fault.
“I don’t think I compare to (Roy) at all,” Makar said. “In terms of achievements and stuff, he’s on a completely different level. I appreciate your confidence in me, but I don’t know if I’m quite there yet.”
Both MacKinnon and Makar often reject the idea of being compared to past Avs greats because of one number: Two. As in, those guys won two titles, and they only have one to this point.
Makar may also be comparing his career to the totality of Roy’s, but that is where the case for the future Hall of Famer begins.
Roy won the Stanley Cup four times. He is the only three-time Conn Smythe Trophy winner in league history. He won the Vezina Trophy three times. Those accomplishments do dwarf what Makar has done so far.
But Roy entered the NHL in 1985. Nearly 54 percent of his regular-season games came with Montreal. All three of his Vezina wins and two of the three Conn Smythe honors came with the Canadiens, in 1986 and 1993.
The trade, from Montreal to Colorado, is one of the most important moments in franchise history. His addition helped Sakic, Forsberg and Co. win the Stanley Cup in the first season in Denver. It made the Avs a Cup contender for all of his eight seasons with the club, until his retirement in 2003.
Two championships, six trips to the conference finals, every career franchise record of note for goalies that exists, just an icon of the sport —it’s a good argument. Hard to knock it.
“I am always partial to … like, who is on Mount Rushmore right now?” NHL Network analyst Brian Boyle said. “They’re all dead. All former Presidents. We did this at NHL Network for the whole league, and for me, it’s Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. This is Founding Fathers type of stuff.
“So to me, it’s Joe Sakic. It’s Peter Forsberg, who was my favorite player to watch. It’s Patty Roy. He was that guy. And Nate, well, he’s a different animal. Cale is right there, too. I think it’s close. I think they might be carving out some stone soon, but I think it’s Patty Roy right now.”
Boyle makes a strong point about the essence of what a Mount Rushmore could or should be. Maybe every team’s “Mount Rushmore” should be older players who established the franchise’s footing.
But … that’s not really how people look at this sometimes silly, always engaging idea. And further to Boyle’s thoughts, this isn’t really a debate about Roy vs. Makar.
It’s really a debate about time. It’s about when, not if. Has Makar accomplished enough in his career to nudge Roy from this fictional mountain?
“I’m very biased, but I’m spoiled to watch Cale and his entire career,” Avs captain Gabe Landeskog said. “Every shift, every practice, every game, therefore I’m picking Cale because of the way he can impact both sides of the puck.
“It’s a pretty good problem to have, to be picking between the two of those guys.”
So, here it goes …
Makar has won the Norris Trophy twice as the best player at his position. Roy did not do that with Colorado.
Makar has been a finalist for the Norris five times. Roy was a Vezina finalist in Denver twice.
The NHL All-Star game has become nearly useless for legacy purposes. Makar should be a six-time participant (one more than Roy in Colorado), but the league hasn’t staged one twice in his career, and one was played in St. Louis, so the Central squad was stuffed with Blues.
Makar has been named a postseason NHL All-Star five times (three first teams). Roy was named to the first team once, and did finish in the top four two other times.
Those are the facts in Makar’s favor. There are other parts of the argument as well.
He’s a homegrown player and won the Calder Trophy as the league’s top rookie. If anyone deemed it too close to call, that would be a good way to break the tie.
Makar has already spent more time as the unofficial best defenseman in the world than Roy spent at the goalie position during his time in Colorado. That’s a debate inside of a debate and further into the weeds than we probably need to go.
“I thought of Patrick Roy first, but that is because I’m old,” said E.J. Hradek, host of NHL Tonight: First Shift on NHL Network. “Patrick Roy is a Hall of Famer and a legend. But, as I’ve said on the air, Cale Makar might be the best defenseman to ever play when it’s all said and done, beyond Bobby Orr and whoever else you want to talk about.
“That would certainly mean that he’d have to be on that hill.”
And that is probably where the battle lines are drawn. Older Avalanche fans will almost certainly side with Roy. Younger ones will be more likely to back Makar.
Soon, it will be an easy call for Makar. For now, it’s right in the sweet spot for a spirited conversation.
John-Michael Liles, former Avs defenseman and analyst for Altitude Sports, may have had the best solution.
“There should just be five heads up there,” he said.
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