Tag: Bill Simmons

What even counts as television these days, anyway? That question gets a tad thornier by the day, especially now that Netflix has announced a new partnership with Spotify to bring a curated slate of the latter’s owned video podcasts onto the streaming platform.

It’s a sizable lineup, one that mostly draws from The Ringer, the Bill Simmons–founded network that Spotify acquired in 2020, and which in recent months has been notably embracing video. The slate coming to Netflix includes the expected sports programming like The Bill Simmons Podcast (redemption, presumably, for Any Given Wednesday) and The Zach Lowe Show, but also more culture-oriented fare like The Rewatchables, The Big Picture, and The Dave Chang Show. Beyond The Ringer, the deal brings on podcasts that had been absorbed in Spotify’s 2019 acquisition of Parcast, including the generically named True Crime and Serial Killers, both of which will likely play nicely with Netflix’s recommendation algorithm. They will become available on Netflix in the U.S. early next year, with other markets to eventually follow. More titles are expected to be added later.

For Netflix, this move doesn’t come out of nowhere. The company has been steadily experimenting with broadening its on-platform definition of “content,” including video games and digital video programming that originated on YouTube, like the popular kids’ YouTuber Ms. Rachel. It’s also long dabbled on the periphery of podcasting, mainly producing branded company shows tied to its television projects, not unlike how HBO uses podcasts to deepen engagement with shows like The Gilded Age and The Last of Us.

But the podcast world has changed dramatically in the past few years. The rapid rise of video-first programming has completely reshaped the medium — and Netflix’s leadership has been watching. “The lines between podcast and talk shows are getting pretty blurry,” co-CEO Ted Sarandos told investors back in April. “As the popularity of video podcasts grows, I suspect you’ll see some of them find their way to Netflix.” Around the same time, Axios reported that it was seeking a podcast chief, signaling a deeper structural move into the space.

For Spotify, things are a little more complicated. The deal represents both a retreat and a reframing. After spending years and billions of dollars to become the dominant podcasting player — buying Gimlet Media (now shuttered), Parcast (also largely shuttered), and The Ringer, plus signing exclusive deals with Joe Rogan and Alex Cooper (who later left for SiriusXM) — the Swedish platform had been further pivoting toward video in search of more lucrative ad dollars and a better business model for its podcast efforts. But YouTube’s sudden incursion into the podcast space, precipitated by the medium’s broader turn toward video, has effectively boxed Spotify in; it didn’t take long for audience-research reports to indicate that more podcast listeners now consider YouTube to be their top preferred platform, surpassing Spotify. By bringing its video podcasts to Netflix, Spotify can extend its shows’ reach without shouldering the cost of competing in video distribution. It’s a way of turning its original content into syndicated inventory, licensing its productions into a marketplace and audience ecosystem that’s indicated greater affinity toward visual programming.

Both companies, of course, are reacting to the same gravitational pull: YouTube. The platform has evolved into the default center of gravity for the creator economy, swallowing categories like music, gaming, education, and now podcasts. In recent months, YouTube had been quietly reframing itself as a direct competitor to Netflix, a position further substantiated by its own claim that the platform is reaching more viewers over television sets than on phones and computers. As such, for Netflix and Spotify, this partnership is less a marriage than a kind of mutual defense pact: Netflix gets a new vein of low-cost, evergreen talk content that helps it compete in attention time against YouTube, while Spotify gets a new distribution vector that can keep its video and podcast investments relevant.

The most intriguing question is how far Netflix is willing to go, and whether it’s considering adding what’s long thought to be the most popular podcast in the world: The Joe Rogan Experience. (Spotify doesn’t own Rogan’s show, but it holds an exclusive distribution deal.) Or, indeed, whether it will lean toward bringing on the most culturally influential podcast genre we have: politics. Given Netflix’s aversion to anything resembling news programming, there’s likely not much appetite for that. At least, not yet. But give it time — and, perhaps, a bad fiscal quarter.