Q&A
Could our governor — the savior of I-95 — one day hold the most powerful office in the free world? People are talking.
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Governor Josh Shapiro at the Capitol in Harrisburg / Photograph by Linette & Kyle Kielinski
Longtime Montco resident Josh Shapiro made national news last year when he led the repair of a collapsed I-95 in just 12 days. He did so again when he loudly condemned the protesters at Goldie. And again with his criticisms of Penn president Liz Magill days before she resigned. Now, with his star rapidly rising in Democratic circles and his name coming up with increasing frequency in the same sentence as “future presidential candidates,” Governor Shapiro braces for what will no doubt be a tumultuous 2024 in the state that won it all for Donald Trump in 2016.
If it says NO CALLER ID, I’m assuming this must be the governor’s office.
[Laughs] I’m actually shocked that you picked up the phone, Victor.
The last time we spoke formally, you were attorney general. So how does one address you these days? Are you “the Honorable Josh Shapiro”? Or are you more of a Rendellian “Hey, Guv” type? Then there’s the ultra-casual approach of John Fetterman. He seems to have no issues with constituents considering themselves on a first-name basis with him.
Let’s go with “Your Excellency, the Honorable Governor Josh Shapiro.” I want all of it! [laughs]
You’ve had the job a year now. Other than single-handedly fixing one of the nation’s busiest interstate highways in a matter of eight minutes, what have you actually accomplished?
First off, we brought a get-shit-done attitude to state government. That has been reflected in a significant number of accomplishments. And keep in mind that I am the only governor in the nation with a divided legislature, meaning one chamber is controlled by Democrats and the other by Republicans. We made the largest investment in public education in the history of Pennsylvania, including universal free breakfast. We made a significant down payment on violence prevention by hiring 400 state troopers and investing millions in violence prevention programs. We’ve brought in over a billion in private-sector investments in Pennsylvania and delivered massive tax cuts for families and seniors. And we are making government work again.
Josh Shapiro and family at his 2017 swearing-in ceremony for attorney general of Pennsylvania / Photograph via Commonwealth Media Services
How was it not working before?
One thing, which may seem trivial but is not, is that we sped up permitting and licensing — something business owners in Pennsylvania really depend on. Just for one example, on the day I took office, it took a person eight weeks to get a business license. Today, it usually takes less than three days. And if we don’t get it to you in the amount of time we say we will, you get your application fee back — a refund.
Obviously, Philly has its own permits and licenses, and based on conversations with local small-business owners and especially restaurateurs, you might want to come in and help overhaul our process.
[Laughs] Look. I am competitive as hell. And I want Pennsylvania to be competitive, and economic development is such a huge part of that.
So I gave you plenty of opportunity to talk about what you did get done. What did you want to accomplish that you didn’t?
We certainly have unfinished business, and I would put a few things at the top. Raising the minimum wage to $15, which, unfortunately, the Republicans who control the Senate haven’t moved on yet. I am also hopeful that we will be able to expand protections for our LGBTQ+ community. In our Commonwealth, a same-sex couple can get married over the weekend, and yet it’s still legal to fire them on Monday because they’re gay. That’s just unacceptable.
Getting back to I-95, you really shut the cynics down. It was a remarkable accomplishment. Can you break down the first hour or three or whatever for me?
My chief of staff called me just after 7 a.m. and said it collapsed. At first, I didn’t realize she meant collapsed-collapsed. Within a few minutes, we had a plan together to make sure our first responders had everything they needed. Once the scene was secure, I was itching to get out there, and I went up in a state police helicopter. Soon after landing, we all began to come around to this idea of filling in the underpass to get it reopened quickly. The experts were telling me it would take months. But that just wasn’t okay.
Governor Josh Shapiro greets workers near the site of the I-95 collapse. / Photograph via Commonwealth Media Services
We got everybody together — from the lawyers who had to approve the contracts to the engineers to draw up plans to the great men and women of the Building Trades, whom I asked to work 24/7 through the heat, the rain, Father’s Day — and we made it happen without allowing the bureaucrats to take weeks to come up with a plan. As our first responders were still putting out the fire, we had our demolition team standing by, ready to do its work. When they were doing their work, we had the reconstruction team on standby, ready to start at a moment’s notice; we had the aggregate from Delco at the ready.
I think that seeing the Building Trades members work 24/7 really rallied the Commonwealth and city around us. The Philly fans all cheered us on. I empowered the people on the ground to make important decisions so they wouldn’t get caught up in bureaucratic snafus. And we proved it: Pennsylvania can rise to the moment. We can do big things in Pennsylvania. And when there is an emergency, we know how to respond.
I can’t help but notice that you didn’t mention Jim Kenney in any of that. Frankly, you seemed to dwarf him throughout the whole process. He’s gone now. So you can speak freely about him.
I didn’t mean to omit him. Don’t read into that. The mayor and his team were extremely helpful. We had some serious issues that we needed his help with, and we all worked well together.
Were you as shocked as the rest of us when I-95 reopened 12 days after it collapsed?
I refused to accept what the experts told me, but I don’t think I knew that we’d get it done in 12 days.
Shortly after the reopening, a certain Philly politico told me of you, “You’re looking at the first Jewish president of the United States.” And certainly since then, there has been more talk of that possibility. But considering the state of national politics today and what comes along with that gig, would you even entertain the idea?
I can tell you that I believe in public service, and I want to do everything I can to make people’s lives better and to get shit done for them. I also want to protect our democracy and freedom, so I am supporting President Biden in every way I can. We must defeat Donald Trump. He is a dangerous extremist who is determined to rip away our freedom. He is hell-bent on destroying our democracy.
Trump has seen challenges in many states, including ours, to his name being on the ballot. Department of State head Al Schmidt tells me he doesn’t have the power to kick Trump off here. Does Trump belong there?
What is clear to me is that he will be the nominee in Pennsylvania and that the way to defeat him is at the ballot box, not in the courts.
I distinctly recall the moment on that ill-fated day in November 2016 when Pennsylvania was called for Trump, thereby handing him the presidency. What did you feel at that moment?
You will recall that I ran for attorney general on that same ballot, and I should mention that I outperformed Donald Trump. I knew that by becoming attorney general, I was going to have the awesome responsibility to protect our freedoms in the Commonwealth, because it was clear that Donald Trump was going to do things to eviscerate our rights. I went to court against Donald Trump dozens of times and won nearly every time.
Trump recently told his supporters in Iowa to “guard the vote” and “go into” certain cities, including Philadelphia, to “watch those votes.” Do you worry that we could see January 6th-type activities at election offices and polling places in Philadelphia on November 5th?
I do. Donald Trump’s actions and words have directly led to violence. What we’ve learned about Trump is that he says these outrageous things that he actually means. But I have a long track record of standing up to bullies like Trump and winning.
You have had plenty of people, including Meek Mill, cheering you on for some of the criminal justice reforms you’ve helped push through. But others say those measures don’t go far enough. Can we expect more from you?
Of course. Criminal justice reform is an important part of why I ran for this office, and I am delivering. We were one of two states in the nation that didn’t fund public defender offices for indigent defendants. We got that done. Pennsylvania can now expunge older criminal records so people can get back to work. We’ve done a lot of work to fix the probation system, which people like Meek found themselves caught up in. There’s more to come.
Josh Shapiro as a child with his younger sister, Rebecca / Photograph via Commonwealth Media Services
This is Pennsylvania. You’ve got Pittsburgh on one end and Philadelphia on the other, with huge swaths of red in between those blotches of blue. Many people in those regions would be angry with much of what you’ve done and what you’ve said thus far in this interview. What’s it like being the governor of a state so sharply divided?
Look, I don’t see — I will respectfully push back on that. I don’t see the state as divided as maybe your question presupposes, but I take your question to heart. This is obviously an incredibly challenging state to win, and I’ve won every time I’ve run for something. I’ve broken vote-getting records. I’m not saying that to pat myself on the back; I’m saying it as a proof point that we got elected not by Democrats, but by Democrats and Republicans and Independents as well. We get shit done. I focus on delivering practical, tangible, real results. Many of the things I’ve done appeal to rural, urban and suburban communities. There are commonsense ways to bring people together.
You recently made national news again thanks to the protests outside Michael Solomonov’s restaurant Goldie and your lightning-fast condemnation of Liz Magill’s testimony before Congress about antisemitism at Penn, before she resigned. You labeled the Goldie incident, in which protesters stood outside chanting “Goldie, Goldie, you can’t hide, we charge you with genocide,” as “blatant antisemitism.” I’m friends with some young Jewish people who strongly disagree with Israel’s recent actions in the Middle East, and I have Jewish friends who have very nuanced views of the entire situation. But can one take the position that Israel’s actions in the Middle East are an overreaction or totally unjustified without being straight-up labeled an antisemite?
Respectfully, you are conflating two things. There is a lot of nuance when it comes to Middle East policy. And people should absolutely be free to express themselves on those policies. My own views are quite nuanced. I believe in a two-state solution. And I believe that Benjamin Netanyahu is a horrible leader and has been a destructive force in the Middle East. You may or may not agree with that, and that’s okay. But we have to be very clear in condemning antisemitism and Islamophobia, which have no place here. The fact that you and I might disagree doesn’t make you an antisemite. But targeting a Jewish restaurant owner simply because he’s Jewish is antisemitism. Go back and look at history, at the ’30s boycott of Jewish businesses.
If you talk to those protesters, as I did, some of them will tell you that they weren’t targeting Goldie because Michael is Jewish. They claim he donated money to the Israel Defense Forces, and that this is why they were targeting him.
No. These groups had already identified Goldie and several other restaurants for boycott simply because they were owned by Jews, including Stephen Starr.
One of my colleagues told me, “Make sure you ask him what the heck happened with the school vouchers!” There was a lot of confusion last year when you reportedly told Republicans one thing but then went back on what you had said soon after. So what exactly is your position?
My position has never changed. I understand there are political theatrics and drama that people needed to inject into the situation, which is just part of the business. But I believe we must invest in students who are poor and who live in struggling school districts, to give them more resources for tutoring or books or computers or allow them to go to different schools if their local public school doesn’t work for them and their family.
Now, importantly, and I know you didn’t say this purposely, but you said “voucher.” And what that has traditionally meant is that if your child chose another school, the funding for that would come out of your local school district’s funding. But what we proposed was an additional fund — $100 million — so that money wouldn’t come out of your local schools. But yes, there is unfinished business here, and we need to find common ground between the House and the Senate.
I say ‘We get shit done’ a lot. I’m not sure how Cherelle would put that. But we are both very results-oriented people. … I’m very optimistic about the future in Philly under Mayor Parker.”
What do you expect your working relationship to be like with Mayor Parker?
Cherelle has been a good friend of mine for 20 years. We served together in the House and have stayed very connected over the past two decades. I’m so excited for her leadership and very proud that Philadelphia elected the first woman to lead the city as its 100th mayor. We have an incredibly constructive working relationship and focus on a lot of the same things, like public safety and making the government work. I say “We get shit done” a lot. I’m not sure how Cherelle would put that. But we are both very results-oriented people. In one of her first executive orders, she eliminated the college-degree requirement for many city jobs. I did the same thing for state jobs. Ninety-two percent do not require a college degree. I’m very optimistic about the future in Philly under Mayor Parker.
Finally, I think it’s only fair to delve into one last controversy, given that you’ve been spending so much time in Harrisburg of late. What on earth is it like living in Sheetz country when all you ate for decades was Wawa?
[Laughs] It’s true that I spend a lot of time in Harrisburg and in different parts of Pennsylvania. There are some great things about Sheetz. And there’s also the Rutter’s stores, which people always forget. They’re good, too. But don’t worry: I’m still a Wawa guy. A Wawa guy and a Philly sports guy. Always will be.
We’ve edited this interview for length and clarity.
Published as “Shapiro for President?” in the February 2024 issue of Philadelphia magazine.
Photo: Unsplash