In our teens and 20’s (and beyond) stress of school, college and first big work experiences can be fat-promoting.
As we reach child-bearing years, and beyond, sex and thyroid hormones interfere with weight balance.
As women hit their late 40’s and 50’s, many experience hormone shifts that impact weight during peri-menopause. And post-menopause, with decreasing sex hormones, is a challenge. All through the peri-menopause and menopause years, unless you’re adapting and changing your habits, you’ll pretty much automatically gain 10-ish or more pounds.
We just re-launched the Daily Dozen Challenge to help more people discover how easy it is to fit some of the healthiest of healthy foods into their meals. Join us on social media and show us how you Do the Dozen.
Challenge: Use the Daily Dozen checklist in the app to guide you as you take the Challenge. Document your meals, snacks, and activities by taking photos and/or videos throughout your challenge day.
Post: Share your Daily Dozen Challenge experience to inspire and motivate others. Post your Challenge pictures or videos on social media, and use the hashtag #DailyDozenChallenge to build the community of participants.
Encourage: The more, the merrier! Challenge others to take part in the Daily Dozen Challenge. Help spread the word!
For inspiration on how to Do the Dozen, check out these challenge videos:
Fasting has been branded the “next big weight loss fad” but has a long history throughout various spiritual traditions, practiced by Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, and Buddha. Today, about one in seven American adults report using some sort of fasting as a means to control body weight. There are various approaches to fasting, from intermittent fasting to weeks of only water. For more on fasting, check out the topic page and videos such as Is Fasting for Weight Loss Safe? and The Benefits of Fasting for Healing.
Recipe: Corn Chowder
Corn Chowder from The How Not to Diet Cookbook is a delicious comfort soup that’s perfect for the winter! This chowder can be as thick and creamy as you like, depending on how much of the soup you puree. Get the free recipe here and watch a video on how it’s made on our Instagram.
2022 Year in Review
Thank you for all of your support in 2022! To see what we accomplished last year, check out our 2022 Year in Review report. In addition to continuing to put out new videos and blogs each week, highlights include creating The Daily Dozen Meal Planning Guide, translating the Daily Dozen app into 14 languages, and launching the free Plant-Based Living email series. Download the full report here.
The Evidence-Based Eating Guide in More Languages
Our popular eating guide is now available in Spanish and Chinese. You can download these versions on our new Guides and Handouts page or buy hard copies on DrGreger.org.
How Not to Die Kindle Deals
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Every month, I do a live Q&A right from my treadmill, and the next one is January 26! At 3 pm ET, tune in on our Facebook page, YouTube channel, or directly on NutritionFacts.org.
You can find links to past live Q&As here on NutritionFacts.org. And check out my recent conversation on Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine’s Exam Room podcast.
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Hello my friends, and welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show on the analyzing the DUTCH test.
If you’re sitting there thinking, wow, this guy sounds like he is in a great mood, you would be absolutely correct. It is because we got to do another wonderful lab analysis video. The DUTCH test stands for dried urine test for comprehensive hormones. It is considered one of the gold standard tests, at least as far as hormones are concerned, in the functional space.
Now, we don’t actually teach this test in the main course. There are some bonuses for it. You can get it for free. It’s something that’s at the very end of your training. But we do not teach this in the main training. The reason I’m showing this to you guys is one, so you can continue to learn how we actually think as FDNs and how we analyze lab tests generally speaking. Because you can still learn a lot from this even if you’re not going to use this specific test.
But on top of that, you gotta understand a couple of things. You really don’t need this test to do FDN properly, and we have an advanced course on this. We have plenty of practitioners who use this test exclusively. I am not saying there is something wrong with it. I am saying that to do FDN properly, in my humble opinion, it is really not necessary 99% of the time.
FDN’s Core Principles Are Lifestyle Things
[00:01:28] Detective Ev: What happens is there are many people out there, one, they want to take their knowledge to the next level. I totally respect that. That’s fine. And two, they might have a demographic where the hormone stuff could be extra helpful to know.
A lot of people work with mid-forties women, if they’re going through menopause or are premenopausal, but you know about to get there perimenopausal type of thing, or if they’re trying to get pregnant and maybe they’ve had infertility issues. Yes, of course it can help to have every little tool for you in terms of helping this person get better. But at the end of the day, what it really comes down to is the lifestyle stuff.
So, I’m not trying to discredit the podcast that you’re about to hear cause it is awesome. But we always gotta keep that in mind, the tests are cool, they are great, they are useful, but FDN’s core principles are lifestyle things. And I don’t think you need this test, per se, to get the results that you want with clients and even with yourself.
I will also add in, because I said there was two reasons that we don’t teach this in the main course. The complexity of the test itself would mean that we have to now add tens and tens of hours of extra training to the FDN course. I mean, we’re talking at least 30 hours plus in additional training, which means you’re going to have to pay for that and you’re already paying for the hormone stuff. And you don’t really need it to do FDN well. So again, we’re not stopping anyone from doing this.
Paralysis By Analysis Isn’t Necessary
We have a way underpriced advanced course. I think it’s beyond underpriced. I don’t really get why it’s the price that it is. And I love FDN. Obviously, I work for them. I think we should have that probably higher. But as of right now, at the time of recording this, it’s still like $500, which is ridiculous cause you get 20 hours plus of direct DUTCH training with someone who is very familiar with the FDN system and kind of knows what we do and how we do it.
It’s a perfect person to be teaching the course, to be honest. But that’s beside the point. The point is to add this into the main course would require a lot more money for people. It would require a lot more time. And again, for what we’re trying to do, it just isn’t a hundred percent necessary.
I know even when I say this, there’s a bunch of nerds out there just like me who are going to never stop learning, and you’re going to always want to add on more complicated things. I know this about you, and I know this about me, that is why we do podcasts like this. Enjoy the episode. Have fun with it, nerd out with it. But just keep in mind that you do not need to go to this level to be an effective FDN.
I don’t want you to have paralysis by analysis, right? Where you get so much in overloaded information that you think, oh my gosh, I need to know all these advanced testing options to really help my clients. That’s not the case, but it’s always good to add things on.
Without further ado, let us get to today’s episode.
Paula Reed – FDN Clinical Advisor
We are lucky enough to have with us Paula Reed, who is not only an FDN, but she is a clinical advisor at FDN. Now, for those that are not familiar with what that position is, cause we’ve had a few of them on before, these are the people that help the FDNs.
So, if you listen to this show and you’re already thinking, those guys and girls are pretty advanced with this stuff. This is who we look up to. This is who we get our advice from when we have tricky labs and want to learn something new or just get some help with a case or additional insight.
I always say, Paula, I feel like because of the nature of your guys’ additional job in doing this, no matter what happens, I always use those medical director consults. Because I’m like, there’s no way that they can’t catch something that I wouldn’t catch. At the very least, if you guys agree with me a hundred percent, it was still worth the time to get on the call and just realize, okay, cool, I am on the right track.
Today, what we’re going to be doing is actually diving deep into a lab. We’re continuing our series because you guys seem to be loving these and I enjoy it as well. This one I fully admit not every FDN has the same knowledge base with every lab, and this one is one I’m a little ignorant to.
Analyzing and Clinically Correlating the DUTCH Test Results
So, if you’re listening and you’re interested in the DUTCH test and you clicked on it because of the title, and you’re like, I don’t know that much. Am I good to go through this? Perfect. You and I are in the same boat and that’s why we have Paula. She’s going to help us out today. We have test results to share with you guys.
You guys will want to make sure to be on YouTube if you are not already. Of course, we always try to do our best here to make these something that you can listen to on audio because we know that our audience is mostly audio based. But this is a complex test, guys. It’s not Paula’s job to do every little thing on audio, so I would highly recommend hopping on YouTube if you can.
But if nothing else we will do our best to try to make this as clear as possible while we’re just doing audio. So, Paula, can you see the test results?
[00:05:44] Paula Reed: Yes, I can.
[00:05:45] Detective Ev: Thank you. Okay, cool. We will obviously not be seeing the client’s name today, but we do get to see that they are a 41-year-old female. Before we get into the test results themselves, I guess one of the important things to note with FDN, especially if it’s your first time listening, is we do something called clinical correlation. It’s different than diagnosing. We don’t diagnose or treat anything.
The DUTCH Test: Depression, Lack of Energy, Hair Loss
Diagnosing would be okay, Mr. and Mrs. Jones, your blood sugar was at X, Y, Z level, this number of times. So, we’re going to classify that as Type II diabetes. Whereas clinical correlation, at least one example of it would be, hey, we noticed that you have these mood swings at this time of the day, but your blood sugar, because maybe you’re using a glucometer or something, also was really high when you have those mood swings. That would be a clinical correlation.
When we’re looking at these tests, we’re never diagnosing something. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re trying to correlate it with what the client might be experiencing. So, to the degree that you’re able, Paula, cause I know that obviously we have to be respectful to people’s privacy. But what can we say about this client? What were they dealing with when they ran this test with you?
[00:06:43] Paula Reed: Awesome. Yes, this is a 41-year-old female. That’s kind of my population. I work with a lot of perimenopausal and menopausal women who are just starting to not necessarily feel like themselves.
This particular client came to me and said she was feeling off, that she was also experiencing some depression, lack of energy, and loss of hair for about four years. That’s why she came to me, and we decided to run this lab as well as some others. We’re kind of doing this in baby steps. She hasn’t completed all of the labs yet, but this is the first one. This is a newer client’s that we just got back.
The DUTCH Test: Page 1 Overall Hormone Levels
[00:07:19] Detective Ev: Cool. Nice and fresh, I like it.
So, the first thing I’m noticing at the top, this is useful for me and to the audience, there’s a key here and it says how to read the results. When we’re looking at these little, almost complete circles, right? I mean, they’re not full but they’re these little circles. What is this here? Is this the reference range, I’m guessing? How does this work on this test?
[00:07:35] Paula Reed: On this first page, we’re just kind of seeing an overall view and a snapshot of the levels of the sex hormones, as well as the adrenal hormones. All of those circles, we refer to those as dial gauges. Between the two yellow stars on either side of those gauges, that’s the normal range. Then with the little needles on those gauges, that’s showing us where the levels are.
There’s another page, when we get to the next page, you’ll see all the actual breakdown of all of these metabolites. But for this, it’s just a quick glance at what do the hormone levels look like overall.
To give you an example on this one, with her estradiol, which is the strongest estrogen and progesterone, the dials are pointing to the same general area on their own respective gauges. And that’s what we want to see. This is actually a good presentation. A lot of times when women are entering perimenopause, we start to see that progesterone start to drop even before estrogen does. That’s why a lot of women become estrogen dominant at that time. It’s due to progesterone insufficiency.
The DUTCH Test: A False Low and Why
But in this case, her hormones actually look really good with estrogen, progesterone, very balanced. Now, I thought this was a good example of one possible, I guess con, of the DUTCH. Her testosterone is showing really, really low. I’ll show you on the next couple of pages why that is a false low of everything that the DUTCH test, and I personally love the DUTCH test. I do use it with all of my clients.
About 30% of the population has a genetic mutation that does not allow them to show total testosterone in urine. Blood is the gold standard for testing testosterone. It just so happens that people with Asian ethnicity tend to be, I guess, the higher population that has that genetic mutation.
This particular client has Asian ethnicity, another clue that this may not be correct. So, I asked her to check testosterone via blood to confirm, and of course her testosterone’s not really that low. Whenever I see low testosterone on a DUTCH, I will confirm with blood before doing any aggressive strategies to try and improve testosterone. It may not need improving, and hers actually did not.
[00:09:50] Detective Ev: That is so cool. This is why I love the world of FDN, right? Because it’s always reading between the lines and then reading between those lines as well. Obviously, we love the DUTCH, clearly you just said that you use it with every client.
But we can be objective here. If I ran this as an untrained professional, is there anything to acknowledge on this, that genetic mutation, or would I just be totally in the dark about that?
The DUTCH Test: Preferred Urine Testing to Measure Actual Cortisol Production
[00:10:12] Paula Reed: Actually, yes, the lab is really good. There are several pages that we won’t show on here, of where they will give you some hints and tips as the practitioner to help you interpret this.
Now, it’s not the same thing as like doing the FDN advanced course on stress and hormones. That is a wonderful course for learning all about DUTCH interpretation and ways to address the imbalances that we find. But there will be a notation on this lab saying, hey, you may want to double check this. This person indicated they were of Asian ethnicity and it’s showing low when it really shouldn’t, based on the other androgen metabolites, so you might want to double check that.
[00:10:48] Detective Ev: The lab is good at doing that.
And then I’m seeing in this adrenal hormone section, which we’re still on the first page for those on audio. As an FDN, this is something I’m very familiar with, right. These four cortisol patterns throughout the day. Looking at waking, morning, afternoon, and night.
My initial impression as someone who is not familiar with the test, but still has the knowledge as an FDN, I’m actually thinking, wow, this is not the worst one in the world by any means. But I feel like that waking was probably a little on the lower end, of course. I’m assuming that you would agree with that.
[00:11:17] Paula Reed: Absolutely. But this particular part of this lab is one of the reasons I love DUTCH the most even over saliva for testing cortisol. Saliva can give us some very valuable information, not knocking it at all. A lot of practitioners use it.
The DUTCH Test: A Discordant Pattern
But if you notice that gauge to the left that says 24-hour free cortisol, that is the same thing that we’re measuring when we measure cortisol with saliva, free cortisol only. And free cortisol is that free and available cortisol that can be used by the body.
Over to the right you’ll see that gauge that says metabolized cortisol. This is the difference between saliva and urine. With urine, we can measure actual cortisol production. What is free and available does not always match what is being produced. You can get a few more clues about other imbalances in the body by looking at the difference. In this particular case, you may notice that the dials on the gauges are not pointing to the same direction.
So, with the 24-hour free cortisol, which is what that daily free cortisol pattern graph is based on, it looks wonderful. She’s right in the middle, which is optimal. Anything trending to the right is trending high. Anything trending to the left is trending low, obviously. But where that needle is, it’s like right in the middle, maybe just a little right of center. That’s excellent. She’s got plenty of cortisol available to be used by her body.
But if we look at where the needle is on the gauge for metabolized, her production is showing barely within the normal range. This is what we call a discordant pattern with a DUTCH, and it means she’s not producing very much cortisol. She has very sluggish clearance. Depending upon where the needles are on the gauges and where we catch this kind of discordance it may not even be an adrenal issue at all. It’s a clearance issue.
The DUTCH Test: Sluggish Clearance
In this particular case, because this had been going on for about four years before she was able to seek help for this, it’s become both. It’s a clearance issue and an adrenal issue because based on her production, she’s in the exhaustive phase. Based on what is available, it’s more compensatory phase, which means she’s doing okay with that. But we need to fix the issue that’s causing that discordant pattern.
The two most common reasons for that sluggish clearance of cortisol are hypothyroidism, or even if it’s not overt clinical hypothyroidism it is at least suboptimal thyroid function and also sluggish liver clearance, which is very, very common. When people have issues with phase one or phase two liver detox, we see sluggish clearance of all the hormones, and this is the perfect example of that.
[00:14:02] Detective Ev: Okay, so a quick question, I could be completely wrong with this. Is the DUTCH a single urine sample or is it multiple urine samples?
[00:14:07] Paula Reed: It’s four samples, just like what we do with saliva. That’s how we plot that daily free cortisol pattern. That’s how we do that. So, it’s four samples throughout the day. They’re done a little bit differently, different times than what we do with saliva.
But believe it or not, there’s more than one DUTCH test. This is the DUTCH Complete, which is urine only, but there is a test called the DUTCH Plus where you use urine and saliva so that you get the most accurate cortisol pattern with the 24-hour free. They measure both saliva and urine, but this one is only urine. This is the one I use the most.
Saliva Vs. Urine Samples
[00:14:43] Detective Ev: Okay, cool. Let’s say we have all the money in the world. There is validity to doing the saliva with the urine. It’s not that one’s necessarily superior, it’s just that you would prefer one over the other if you only have the choice of one.
[00:14:53] Paula Reed: Saliva is typically considered the most accurate for plotting that cortisol pattern because if you do it according to the directions correctly, it should take you no more than about 10 minutes to produce a saliva sample. So that’s very spot on for producing that pattern.
With urine, because it’s metabolites, it can go back 90 minutes or to the last time you urinated. So, we actually restrict fluid intake on the day that we do the saliva, so we have concentrated enough urine to measure the metabolites properly.
[00:15:24] Detective Ev: Got it. This makes so much more sense now that I know that there’s four markers. I was under the impression this was one single urine thing. I’m like, how the heck did they get this pattern with one. That was very confusing to me.
Paula Reed: Yeah. No, it’s four.
Detective Ev: Cool. The one thing I want to mention too, because obviously if people are listening to this, we know we have like many trainees that listen and of course they’re getting trained right now on the saliva tests only. One thing I will say as a practitioner who only has the knowledge in the saliva side is if you guys can’t tell, I mean, just by going through the first page of this, there’s an extra level of complexity to this.
I think this is what people really miss in the world of FDN. They will always ask, well, what’s the best lab?
What’s The Best Lab Test?
We could debate that all day.
But I know for sure that the best lab test is never going to be the one that you are not trained to analyze. If I don’t know how to use the test and interpret the results, it could be the best technology in the world, it is not the best test for Evan Transue.
Similarly, what’s super interesting is we have certain people, let’s take like Kendra Perry for example, who’s an expert in HTMA. I can make an argument that the HTMA is very valid in certain cases and maybe causes more harm than good in others or just isn’t as useful. But it depends on the practitioner.
You give an HTMA to someone like her, she’s going to make lemonade out of lemons with that. Like she will figure out a way to actually use that to its fullest advantage. And maybe myself being relatively new to HTMA, I’m going to completely miss things that she could find.
It’s not always about the test itself. I mean, at the end of the day, if all practitioners had the same knowledge, of course it would be about the test. But we need to remember it’s the one that we’re trained on. And salivary hormone testing, especially the way that we teach it in FDN, I believe is a much simpler barrier to entry for someone that might not have any training in biochemistry when they join FDN.
If you want to learn the DUTCH, we obviously have trainings for that. We got one of the better advanced trainings out there. But that’s the reason that we start with the saliva, is the simplicity of it. It’s still useful and it allows you to get in a little easier.
The DUTCH Test: Looking for Balance Between Cortisol & DHEA
[00:17:26] Paula Reed: Absolutely.
And as a clinical advisor, I actually get asked that a lot when I’m doing sessions, especially with newer FDNs who have just graduated. They’re like, oh my gosh, everybody’s talking about the DUTCH and I’ve gotta learn the DUTCH. Is that the best test?
I tell them exactly what you just said. The best test for you to use with your clients is the one you understand and that you can interpret and that you know how to help your client. I do consider this more of a next level test, and that’s why it’s not included in the course. It would make our FDN certification course so much longer, quite frankly, a lot more expensive.
It might actually be very intimidating to a lot of people as a first lab to learn. This is next level.
[00:18:06] Detective Ev: Sure. Would you like me to move to the next page?
[00:18:08] Paula Reed: I just want to point out really quick, that total DHEA production. Even with saliva, we always measure DHEA with cortisol because cortisol is a catabolic hormone. It’s very necessary in our bodies. Sometimes it gets a bad rap. Yes, it’s the stress hormone, but it is more catabolic to the body if you have too much of it.
DHEA is that counter regulatory hormone that is anabolic. We want to have a balance between the two. And I just wanted to point out in this case, if we look at total DHEA and 24-hour free cortisol, her availability of cortisol and where her total DHEA production is kind of matchy, matchy. That’s a good thing. You can move to the next page if you’d like to.
The DUTCH Test: Looking for Dials Pointing in the Same Direction
[00:18:45] Detective Ev: I have one question cause I’ve heard you reference this now three times. Sounds like there’s something to the dials being in the same place. Is that correct?
[00:18:53] Paula Reed: Yes, absolutely. In a perfect world like with 24-hour free cortisol and metabolized cortisol, and with total DHEA, you would want to see every dial on the gauge pointing in the same general direction, even if it’s not optimal. Whether it’s high, low, or optimal, if they’re all pointing in the same direction, it’s more balanced. It’s a discordant pattern if they’re not all pointing in the same way. Does that make sense?
[00:19:14] Detective Ev: Absolutely. And it’s just a nice little tidbit to have.
Now I can go into a test and have no other information. I don’t even have to have the reference ranges per se. I could say, oh, well, I remember what Paula said. Total DHEA and 24-hour free cortisol these are facing relatively similarly. And then, yeah, that metabolized cortisol is clearly the odd one out there. So, good little trick to know.
All right. When we go to the next section here, I’ll just go right to the ranges. There’s a lot of stuff here.
[00:19:36] Paula Reed: Yeah, I never spend more than about two seconds on this, whether I’m doing a clinical advisor session or working with one of my own clients, because all of these numbers and all of these ranges are going to be represented with those much easier to read dial gauges on the next page. So, if you just want to go to the next page. This just allows us to look at the ranges and the numbers, but it’s so much easier when I’m explaining to actually look at the gauges.
The DUTCH Test: Hormone Metabolite Results
Okay, this shows the breakdown.
This is another cool thing that we can only get with urine that we can’t get with saliva or blood for that matter, is how the body is metabolizing these hormones. We got an overview of the levels on the first page, but now we can see the breakdown.
So, at the top of the page, it shows pregnenolone as our master hormone. And on the left side of the page, it’s showing how that metabolizes and breaks down with our androgens. You’ll see the little arrows going down.
There’s DHEA, there’s androstenedione, and then the two primary androgens there are etiocholanolone and androsterone. Looking at those needles on the gauges, again, both of those androgens are pointing in the same general direction. That actually doesn’t happen very often.
But that is showing us that, that little fan gauge at the bottom is 5a reductase activity, that tells us if the client is metabolizing their androgens in a more androgenic way or a less androgenic way. That’s important because if someone is very strong on the androgen side, they’re the person that’s more likely to have symptoms of excess androgens like oily skin, acne, hair loss, irritability, aggressiveness, mood instability, things like that.
Another clue that we can get, which I love with this, is about do we have any issues with any of the liver detox pathways? Look at the gauges on the etiocholanolone and androsterone and where they fall in that gauge. Look at the DHEA-S at the top, the sulfated, DHEA is what is actually available to be used by the body. Total DHEA is a combination of that sulfated DHEA, and those two androgens, the etiocholanolone and androsterone. They should all be pointing in the same direction and they’re not.
The DUTCH Test: Influencing 5a Reductase is Possible
You’ll see that DHEA-S looks lower on the gauge. That means that one of the liver detox pathways called sulfation is blocked, and that’s typically due to inflammation. So, now we know we need to support her liver. She’s having some issues with liver detoxification. That’s a wonderful clue to get just looking at the breakdown of androgens.
[00:22:10] Detective Ev: Very interesting. Yeah, I’m looking at those two dials. Now I have this in my head, so I appreciate this. I mean, those dials are dang near identical with where they’re at, pretty much. So that’s really good.
[00:22:19] Paula Reed: Absolutely.
[00:22:20] Detective Ev: I was just thinking, I wish I had run this when I was a kid. Because when you described the oily skin and the cystic acne or just acne in general, but it was cystic for me, I’m like, wow. I wonder what this was looking like as a teenager back in those days.
Cause I remember my DHEA when I ran like the BH205 back then. When I ran that, my DHEA was like three or four times above the higher end of the reference range. I was already doing a lot better, so I can’t even imagine what it would’ve been on this test back in maybe 10th or 11th grade Ev. That would’ve been crazy to see. Just a side comment.
[00:22:48] Paula Reed: Yeah. And that does correlate a lot. What’s really cool is there are strategies for influencing that 5a reductase activity with diet, lifestyle, and supplements. That can be altered. This is the systemic preference, but we can influence that. That’s good to know too.
The DUTCH Test: Progesterone for Sleep?
At the top of the right of that page are the two progesterone metabolites. What’s valuable about this one, especially when I’m working with women who are considering doing like bioidentical progesterone to support their hormones, a lot of women as they enter that stage of life, have difficulty sleeping.
A lot of folks say, oh, well take progesterone to help you sleep. Well, here’s the thing. If your body’s preference, if the way that you metabolize progesterone is more down the 5a pathway, which is the gauge on the right, it actually attaches to GABA receptors in the brain and will help sleep if you use progesterone.
But if your body’s systemic preference is more the 5b pathway on the left, progesterone can still be very beneficial for hormonal balance, but it’s not going to help with sleep. So that’s kind of a fun little tidbit too.
[00:23:50] Detective Ev: Okay. So, I’m testing myself here. In her case, it would help with the sleep cause the one on the right is higher.
[00:23:57] Paula Reed: Absolutely. Very good.
Now if you want to scroll down just a little bit, this is the one that I find extremely helpful, especially with my clients who are doing bioidentical hormone therapy, whether it’s over-the-counter therapy or if they’re working with a licensed practitioner.
A lot of the licensed practitioners who prescribe bioidentical hormones are not using the DUTCH. They’re using blood to check levels, which is the gold standard, and that’s awesome. But using the DUTCH to look at how your body is metabolizing those hormones is really important to make sure that they are metabolizing down the healthiest pathways.
The DUTCH Test: The Breakdown of Hormone Metabolism
I’m going to try really hard not to get too technical here and just kinda give a broad overview. These gauges break down the three primary estrogens and then the three primary pathways as represented by that pie chart of how the body is metabolizing estrogen.
Actually, all the hormones are metabolized this way, but we’re using estrogen as the example, because that’s the most problematic when we’re thinking about hormonally induced cancers like breast cancer. While genes can be very important when it comes to breast cancer, most breast cancer is not the result of the defective genes. It’s because of this breakdown of how we are metabolizing our hormones.
So, with that pie chart, there’s the 2-OH, the 4-OH, the 16-OH pathways. I kinda look at these as the good, the bad, and the ugly.
So, the green and the 2-OH is the most protective pathway. That’s the good one. You’ll see expected percentages there, should be between 60% to 80%. My client’s was 83.9%, that’s awesome, cause the higher the better.
Over to the right you see 16-OH in blue. It gets called bad, but it’s actually a dual pathway. We need a little bit of estrogen to metabolize down that pathway because it protects us from osteoporosis and osteopenia. But when it gets too high, over the 30% there, it can help cancer grow. It doesn’t cause cancer, but if there are any mutated cells in your body, it can help it grow.
Phase One Liver Detox Pathways – Hydroxylation
That 4-OH pathway in the middle, that’s in red, that’s the ugly one. That’s the one where almost everyone is going to metabolize some estrogen down that pathway. But we want that to be as low as possible because that particular pathway, can create what are called cancer causing quinones. That’s what creates cancer.
So, I always want to see how my female clients are metabolizing estrogen, whether they’re on hormone therapy or not. But especially if someone’s considering hormone therapy, in my opinion, this should be done first. Because if your pathways are horrible, we want to correct that before you start adding estrogen or even testosterone, which can aromatize into estrogen into your body.
[00:26:43] Detective Ev: When you say, for this red one, as low as possible, I mean, it still says the expected percentages are 7.5% to 11%. Just because something’s expected though, doesn’t mean that it’s ideal. So, are you saying that in theory even below 7.5% would be good, or is that incorrect?
[00:26:57] Paula Reed: Below seven would be optimal. If it were zero, that would be optimal. I’ve just never seen that.
Now this particular pie chart and all of that breakdown is representing phase one liver detox pathways called hydroxylation.
When we scroll down a little bit and we look at the rest of the dials and that fan gauge at the bottom of the page, that’s phase two of this estrogen metabolism, methylation. I’m sure a lot of people have heard of methylation and there’s more than one methylation pathway, but this is the hormone methylation pathway.
Phase Two Detox – Methylation
Even if phase one is not stellar, hers actually is, but even if it’s not, phase two can kind of mop up those cancer causing quinones if methylation is high.
In her particular case, we look at that fan gauge over to the left and see how the red needle is leaning to the left for low. That means it’s a good thing she’s got really stellar phase one because her phase two is poor. She is not methylating well. Now this lab won’t tell us why necessarily, although we can get clues on the last page when we look at organic acid markers. There are co-factors for methylation, like vitamin B12, B6, glutathione, other nutrients. If you’re low in those, that can be why methylation is low.
But we also know some people just have genetic mutations that make them poor Methylators. I’m actually one of those people. There can be a variety of reasons. And methylation can fluctuate based on your diet because there are nutrients that are co-factors for methylation. That’s why we always ask our clients about what does your diet look like?
Is this a standard American diet? Are you eating real whole foods? There are so many things that can influence this. That’s why you need all the information, like you mentioned correlation earlier.
[00:28:43] Detective Ev: So, this is saying in theory what it does, right? Cause I’m looking at COMT, I’m like, okay, well that could be a genetic SNP. This is not testing for genetics, obviously.
The DUTCH Test: Hints of Genetics
[00:28:49] Paula Reed: Exactly. No, not at all.
It’s mentioning this though, and there are several areas, like if you look at the red and green arrows and you see things like CYP1A1, all of those things are genes. Because if you wanted to investigate someone’s genetics, cause a lot of people are doing that kind of testing now, if something doesn’t look good in any of these pathways, you can go back and you know which genes correlate with those pathways. So, then you’re like, oh, here’s one of the issues with this. We need to work on this to try and turn that gene expression off.
[00:29:19] Detective Ev: Very cool. Just really quick before we continue to scroll down. As someone who is very new to it, just overall with the impression that I’m getting from you and the things with the dials and stuff like that. A very general interpretation, clearly there’s things to work on, but I am sure you see clients that are way worse than her overall. Is that correct?
[00:29:37] Paula Reed: Most definitely. Overall, this is not bad so far. Her phase one is stellar, but because her phase two on this particular page is poor, I’m always going to make recommendations to make sure that we can optimize methylation as much as possible. But yes, you’re right. This is not bad overall.
[00:29:55] Detective Ev: Got it. Keep moving it down?
Paula Reed: Sure.
Detective Ev: Oh, great. A bunch of other crazy markers, although a little less intimidating than the other one, that’s for sure.
The DUTCH Test: Importance of Creatinine A (Waking)
[00:30:03] Paula Reed: Yes. So, this one again, is a breakdown of all the gauges we’re about to see on the next page.
Now, one thing I will point out, I always check out that very top marker creatinine A (Waking). As I mentioned before, we ask folks to restrict fluids on the day of testing, so their urine is not too diluted. I always check that waking, because all of the organic acid markers on the last page are taken from that sample. If it’s diluted, I know that I need to adjust just a little bit when I’m looking at it.
But this one is within range, so that’s good.
[00:30:32] Detective Ev: Okay, cool.
[00:30:35] Paula Reed: With this one, we get a little dial gauge on melatonin production, which also gives us a little window into gut function because 75% of our melatonin is produced in the gut.
Hers actually looks really good here. She does supplement with melatonin, a very low dose, so that can influence this a little bit. But when we see melatonin really low, I know that there’s some kind of dysfunction going on in the gut. Stool testing is an absolute must.
Again, we see the total DHEA production gauge, metabolized cortisol. We can see that discordant pattern there because her actual cortisol production is again falling in that exhaustive phase because of her sluggish clearance.
Now we have a fan gauge about more cortisone or more cortisol. This is showing from her brain the systemic preference that her body is trained to influence, do we want more cortisone or more cortisol?
The DUTCH Test: Cortisone or Cortisol?
Cortisone is the inactive form of cortisol, and our bodies can interconvert between the two as needed because our bodies are smart and adaptable, it tries to do what it thinks is needed.
But interestingly enough, when that needle is more to the left towards cortisone, that usually points to more emotional stress going on in the body. When it’s pointing more to the right, it typically means there’s more inflammation going on in the body. That’s a fun little clue to get as well.
Then when we scroll down and it shows circulating free cortisol, we get those needle gauges of a daily free cortisone pattern and the daily free cortisol pattern. A lot of times those needles do not match and that’s okay. But one thing that we can look at, sometimes when someone has a very strong cortisone preference, we may see more 24-hour free cortisone than cortisol. That would indicate they’re deactivating too much, and that’s when we would use something to try and prevent that from happening so frequently.
Licorice root happens to be the number one thing we use. It preserves the half-life of cortisol. In this case, we don’t need to do that because her 24-hour free cortisol is actually in a really good place.
But the system preference doesn’t always match what we actually are showing once we excrete it in the urine, if that makes any sense at all.
[00:32:49] Detective Ev: Cool. The licorice root on a side note, that was like one of the weirdest things I’ve ever learned in FDN. It’s like, why? Like why does that help so much with this particular thing? It’s kind of cool how these otherwise natural things can do so much for the human body when used intelligently.
The DUTCH Test: Nutritional Organic Acids Markers
Paula Reed: Absolutely.
Detective Ev: Are we good to keep scrolling?
[00:33:02] Paula Reed: Yeah. I think we’re ready for the last page. This is one of my favorite parts as well. It’s the organic acids markers. And just three of these markers were new, just kind of added within the last few months. But these are what they are, what they represent, and why they’re tested.
We look at things like vitamin B12, vitamin B6, glutathione, because as I mentioned earlier, those are co-factors for methylation. Sometimes when we see these out of range, we get a clue. Okay, that may be why methylation is poor. In her particular case, all of those are within range. So that’s a good thing. But then we are like, okay, we don’t know why methylation is low. She likely has a genetic issue there and we still want to support that.
All right. The biotin marker is included because biotin is another B-vitamin. A lot of people complain about hair loss. When biotin is low, that can be one of the reasons we have hair loss as well as hypothyroidism, poor digestion, malabsorption. There’s a lot of different reasons. Hers is his within range.
The gut marker, the indican, this is another one that we use with another FDN functional lab with Fluids IQ. Measuring indican is an indication of potential like protein putrification in the colon if we’re not digesting well. This is just a newer marker that was added here. The biotin and the gut marker, indican, are the two of the three newer ones.
The DUTCH Test: Neurotransmitter Markers
I also love the fact that they show the neurotransmitter markers because so many folks do talk about things like depression, anxiety, mood instability.
It can all tie in with hormonal imbalance but also when we measure these neurotransmitters. Like her dopamine is in the low end of the range. It’s not out of range, but in the low end of the range. One of her main complaints was depression.
If you’re not producing enough dopamine that can cause depression and or anxiety. Some people have both. What would lead to this in this particular case, her HPA axis dysfunction is very suspect because her metabolized and free cortisol do not match. So that’s a form of HPA axis dysfunction.
I also recommended that we do more investigation into her gut. She’s doing her stool testing now. Because sometimes if you’re not digesting or absorbing, that’s another issue.
Vitamin B6 deficiency is another issue. But when we look at her vitamin B6 markers, they look good.
This neuro inflammation marker, quinolinate, is the other new marker. I love this one because it points to more neuro inflammation in the brain. So, especially if we have a client that’s talking about a lot of brain fog, short-term memory problems, word recall, things like that, we can get some clues about that with this. That also ties to vitamin B6 as well as protein digestion.
The melatonin is showing in the height of the range. That’s not necessarily a problem. I actually just saw a DUTCH yesterday during a clinical advisor session where the melatonin was 171,229. That’s exaggeratingly high. She was supplementing with 30 milligrams of melatonin and didn’t skip it for the two days prior to the test. So, there was a lot of circulating melatonin in her urine.
The DUTCH Test: Melatonin & Oxidative Stress Markers
[00:36:07] Detective Ev: That’s a lot man, geez. That would not make me comfortable.
[00:36:09] Paula Reed: No, I actually asked the FDN to contact the lab and double check that because that’s the highest I’ve ever seen. 18,000 was the highest I’ve ever seen prior to that. That was very skewed.
But here’s the thing, when our body, our mind, our brain is telling the body to keep producing melatonin, melatonin is a very potent antioxidant. Sometimes that’s also indication that there might be something crossing the blood/brain barrier. There may be some toxicity, heavy metal toxicity, self-infections, things like that. And that often goes along with quinolinate if it’s really neuro inflammation marker.
Then lastly, we have this oxidative stress marker, which is measuring oxidative stress all the way down to the cellular level. So, we’re looking at mutated cells, disease. It can also be elevated if someone has just had surgery, cause that’s tissue damage if you’re cutting into someone’s body or an injury like a torn rotator cuff, things like that.
But I’d like to look at those ranges, and I do correlate it with age as well. A younger person should have lower oxidative stress. The longer we’re on this earth we’re going to have a little bit more because we’ve been on this earth for so long and it’s kind of a toxic world.
So, that in a very quick nutshell, are all those organic acid markers.
[00:37:21] Detective Ev: I have a quick question because I feel like when I have thought about DUTCH in the past and I knew the organic acid markers were on here, I just didn’t know like which ones it was.
Where Do Organic Acid Markers Fit into the Bigger DUTCH Picture?
I’m thinking about this like, all right, it’s supposedly a hormone test. That’s what my impression has always been. Where do these organic acid markers actually come into the bigger picture here? Because listen, I use organic acids testing sometimes. I have some training in it. But at the same time, I also know like anyone that trains in organic acids is the first one to tell you that this is not the most accurate testing in the world, especially when we’re talking about the certain vitamin metabolites.
So, how does this fit into the big picture of the DUTCH for you?
[00:37:57] Paula Reed: Again, when we are going through the DUTCH and we’re seeing things like poor methylation or when we have a client who’s talking about mood instability, depression, anxiety, all of these markers and I want to touch on something like with a vitamin B12 and vitamin B6. These are not direct measurements of those vitamins. These are the measures of organic acids that will be out of range in the extreme likelihood that you have a deficiency of those vitamins.
So, you’re right, it’s not a direct measurement. If someone wants that, they really need to get blood labs, that’s going to show you the direct measurement of those particular vitamins. But this just gives us clues for further investigation or trying to correlate with our client’s complaints as well as some of those markers.
Again, if someone shows poor methylation like she did, I’m going to look at the vitamin B12 and B6 markers and glutathione because all of those are needed co-factors for proper methylation.
Correlating Markers with Symptoms
Like in this case, even though her vitamin B12 and B6 looked okay, I still recommended a methylated B complex for her because this isn’t the end all be all. And knowing that methylation was low, I just feel like I know you can’t really over supplement with B vitamins, they’re water soluble.
All of these can correlate with some of the markers that we’re seeing on the DUTCH or potentially correlate with some of those symptoms that a lot of people are doing this hormone testing for, like hair loss or digestive issues or wanting to correlate the oxidative stress marker with if someone’s having really poor estrogen metabolism.
I’m going to tell them they need to see a doctor, if oxidative stress is really high. If you haven’t had a mammogram, get a mammogram or see your gynecologist. Whatever is needed.
[00:39:42] Detective Ev: All right. That actually makes sense. And that’s kind of interesting.
[00:39:45] Paula Reed: That’s the end of it.
Yeah. The rest are notes from the lab about things that they just want to alert you to. For example, that low testosterone being, hey, you may want to double check that with blood because it looks like it may not be accurate.
[00:39:59] Detective Ev: Very cool. All right, so I’ll kind of just scroll through here really quick for you. Obviously, all these tests tell you how to read it and stuff. I mean, that’s not going to teach you how to do it in the way that you just did it for us, but still pretty cool.
I will stop sharing then. That was actually and relatively good timing too. I have a couple quick more questions just general questions now.
The Foundation of FDN is D.R.E.S.S.
So, with this client, again, we acknowledge that this is probably not the worst test in the world, especially compared to some of the people that come and work with us at FDN. And I know in the beginning we weren’t necessarily going to talk about like huge action steps, and we don’t have to per se.
But I am kind of curious cause I think people want to know, like when they see some of these things out of whack, they kind of want to know what do FDNs do? I’ll just put the disclaimer on that. First and foremost, we always focus on lifestyle. That’s why the foundation of everything FDN is D.R.E.S.S, which is diet, rest, exercise, stress reduction, supplementation.
I know supplementation’s not lifestyle per se, but our modern world has so many deficiencies in it that certain basic supplements kind of are lifestyle nowadays. I don’t know how you’d get away without taking some type of additional nutrients.
I don’t know how you’d really get away without probably wanting some type of digestive support, especially if you’re on the go. Like for me, I’ve just decided to use that indefinitely. That’s the one supplement I keep taking. So, what are the recommendations outside of the, hey, Mr. and Mrs. So-and-so, you need to slow down.
What are the other recommendations for a person like this?
[00:41:14] Paula Reed: I can tell you specifically with her because she had that sluggish cortisol clearance, for example, she had never had a full thyroid panel. So, I recommended doing that. Her doctor would not agree to do it, so I ordered the labs. I have the ability to do that and am actually very fluent in thyroid labs. I was able to work with her on that.
The DUTCH Test: Paula’s Recommendations for This Client
She did not have actual clinical hypothyroidism. But what I love about a full thyroid panel is I could see she had suboptimal thyroid function with the most metabolically active thyroid hormone, which is free T3. So, we actually needed to support some nutrients in her body to improve her thyroid function.
With that really, really exhaustive phase with the cortisol, I actually recommended adrenal glandulars for one month just to support her adrenals while we worked on the sluggish clearance so that would bring that into more balance there between the free and the metabolized cortisol. I already mentioned like the methylated B complex. That was really, really important.
And I did actually recommend liposomal glutathione just for 30 to 60 days to support the liver because we did have a clue there that sulfation was struggling a little bit. Glutathione is wonderful for just supporting the liver overall, so I recommended that as well.
Not a boatload of supplements, but of course we discuss all the diet. I have program modules that my clients go through, so they learn all the steps of D.R.E.S.S along the way and what is the best way to eat and how to rest and all of that. She actually had a really good diet to begin with.
She’s very, health conscious. She just was struggling with some of those symptoms for a few years and that’s why she came to me. She was a referral from another client.
[00:42:46] Detective Ev: All right. Very interesting. This is very typical in the world of FDN. We might find some things that we can recommend, like other tests, like, hey, you might want to get this checked, not necessarily, but definitely can probably do that.
FDNs Help the Hard Cases and Guide to Next Level Health
I feel like the hormone tests and especially genetic testing, not that we teach it in the main course, but these are tests that all the time kind of imply other things that we could possibly do for the individual. Like genetic testing’s all about what other things can you basically run or what would you benefit from? That’s what I found at least.
So, this person, yeah, we’re going to address the lifestyle stuff. We’ll have this additional supplementation in the meantime. And we’ll help her course correct and kind of get to where she needs to go.
Now, it’s interesting because her results, since they are not the worst in the world of FDN, is also a little validating for the work she clearly has done. It can be as helpful as it is validating. Because for her, it’s like, all right, you’re still one of the better clients out there, trust us. But here’s how we can course correct and get you to that next level.
I think FDNs typically get viewed as those that you come to when nothing else has worked. But at the end of the day, it can also be those that you come to when you really want to dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s, I would say as well.
[00:43:47] Paula Reed: Exactly.
[00:43:48] Detective Ev: This was really fun. Are there any final things you have to say, anything we didn’t touch on? I feel like your overview was great. I’ve never actually had a clinical advisor consult with you, but I mean this seriously, you have the perfect demeanor and way of speaking for a teacher, so it’s really cool. I feel like that’s awesome that they have you in that position.
Where to Find Paula Reed
[00:44:06] Paula Reed: Thank you. I love being a clinical advisor. I do love educating, mentoring, and supporting my fellow FDNs. Especially, newer practitioners come into a session, they’re just getting started and sometimes it’s a little intimidating. They’re afraid that they don’t know what they’re doing.
And I love encouraging other practitioners, yes, you do. You know what you’re doing. So, I love it.
[00:44:27] Detective Ev: Oh, Paula, really quick, one last question for you. Where can people find you if they want to work with you? If they’re listening today and being like, all right, Paula knows her stuff. I need to work with her as an FDN. Who do you help? Who’s your main clientele?
[00:44:39] Paula Reed: My primary clientele is perimenopausal and menopausal women going through that stage of life.
But that’s not the only person I work with. I do help men as well. In fact, I often wind up helping the husbands or significant others of some of those clients that I start off working with. But yeah, my primary passion is with those perimenopausal and menopausal women who are just trying to figure out why they feel different at this stage of life.
[00:45:02] Detective Ev: Cool. And where can people find you if they’re interested? Of course, this will be both in the show notes and the YouTube description, guys.
[00:45:16] Detective Ev: If you guys are looking for something else to watch after this. One thing that Paula brought up was a full thyroid panel. If you want to know why a full thyroid panel might be beneficial, I’ll put this in the description below, it’s called How to Analyze Thyroid Results with Ryan Monahan, another one of our clinical advisors.
He actually goes through my results, Paula. Which all, at the time at least, looked green on Western medicine. I think it was like seven out of nine of them, or whatever it ended up being, were actually not up to par in the world of functional, even though all of them looked green in Western. So, if you guys want to learn about that, go check that out.
Thank you so much for coming on today. I’m hoping to have you on soon. I might do something eventually where we kind of have multiple clinical advisors on at once, but I’m still working on that. I will keep you posted.
[00:45:59] Paula Reed: All right, sounds good. Thank you.
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The Scoop: Sarah is a former graphic designer and high school teacher who now spends her days creating vegan recipes in the kitchen. She’s well known for changing and adapting recipes as she goes – and she began her blog to keep track of all of her tasty experiments so she could make them again!
The Scoop: Sadia is a Canadian dietitian currently living in the Netherlands who shares delicious vegan recipes along with health and lifestyle tips. With a Youtube following of nearly 2.5 million, you’re in a wide audience of good company!
The Scoop: This clever blog focuses on healthy vegan recipes you can either enjoy right away or freeze for later. There are also a lot of tips on how to best freeze a variety of ingredients and dishes!
The Scoop: Nora not only offers great recipes but has a wealth of tips and tricks about how to be vegan as a family (especially when you have picky eaters!).
The Scoop: Julie has over a decade of experience as a vegan and uses her culinary creativity to come up with simple recipes you can make with ingredients that are easy to find at the grocery store.
The Scoop: We appreciate Jessie’s open, honest writing and her commitment to an ever-evolving vegan diet filled with health-promoting ingredients. And we’re super jealous that she lives in California!
The Scoop: You’ll come for the gorgeous photography and stay for the bold and creative vegan recipes. If you like cuisines from around the world, this blog is for you.
The Scoop: We love Caitlin’s blog for its delicious gluten-free and refined sugar-free recipes, but most of all we adore how her recipes require minimal ingredients and are super budget-friendly, making it even easier to eat healthfully.
The Scoop: If you like food, you’ve heard of this blog. Filled with creative vegan recipes, mouthwatering photos, and a heart-on-her-sleeve writing style, Angela’s blog is a must-read for vegans.
The Scoop: Ella overcame a rare illness by following a plant-based, allergen-friendly diet, and she’s on a mission to share healthy, veggie-rich, delightful food that will help you feel awesome.
Many thanks to two supporters for this week’s topic. One was my top anonymous paper finder and the other was Dr Pam Gill. The paper that they spotted was called “Middle-age high normal serum sodium as a risk factor for accelerated biological aging, chronic diseases, and premature mortality” and it was by Dmitrieva et al (Ref 1).
The title looks complex, but the research question was quite straightforward – does optimal hydration slow down the aging process in humans?
Pam shared that she’s a ‘drink to thirst’ person, as I am. Are we sub optimally hydrated? Are we aging faster if we are sub optimally hydrated? We need to know…
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Hey, what is going on my friends? Welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show about how anyone can be an entrepreneur. You can always find us, by the way, at fdntraining.com. That is fdntraining.com.
Today what we are doing is actually taking an Instagram LIVE audio that we have and putting it on here as the podcast, cause I wanted to make sure our audience here got this as well. I do apologize in advance because my audio is not the worst thing in the world, but it almost sounds like I’m calling in from a phone. Our guest, Hailey, who’s talking most of the time, her audio is pretty perfect, so nothing to worry about there.
Today, we’re focusing solely on business. Hailey does have her own health challenges that she struggled with. It’s what led her into the world of actually coaching other health coaches to do the business side of things. I’ll tell you this, this woman knows her stuff.
In the world of business coaching, and I don’t know if I have a tainted perspective on this because I’m a relatively young person who sees a lot of pseudo business coaches out there, but there’s a lot of BS. There’s a lot of people that got very lucky or really have not accomplished much of anything. Maybe they made a hundred thousand dollars one year and then are coaching other people on how to do that, even though they couldn’t keep it, they only did it one time. I’m not trying to be negative; I’m just being realistic. I see this literally all the time.
Talking About How to Become an Entrepreneur
The difference with Hailey is, there are certain people that when they talk, you can tell that they know what they’re talking about. They couldn’t really fake some of those things and Hailey’s one of those people. I enjoyed this conversation so much.
We’re going to talk about things from marketing, to sales, to do you need the perfect website to get started, to what are some of the biggest challenges that people face when they are starting a health coaching business or starting off as a brand new FDN practitioner. We cover pretty much all of those topics and more.
Without further ado, let us get to today’s episode. See, you are an Instagram pro because you joined right away. Thank you so much. Hey. How are you?
Hailey Rowe: I’m doing well.
Detective Ev: It’s nice to get to virtually meet you here. Again, thank you for hopping on with us.
[00:02:26] Hailey Rowe: Thanks for having me.
[00:02:28] Detective Ev: Guys, if you’re just tuning in, today’s a little different than what we normally do on the Instagram Live side of things for FDN. We’re going to be talking a lot more about business stuff because Hailey is a business coach specifically for our friends in the health coaching industry.
An Entrepreneur Who Incorporates Her Passions
If you are listening on the Health Detective Podcast, you guys already know, we kind of incorporate some business stuff on here sometimes. Mostly it is health stuff, but we know that you guys all need some help with this. It seems that most of the people that listen, they either are practitioners, Hailey, or they’re becoming FDNs, becoming some type of practitioner. We’ve got a lot of people for you to talk to today between the Instagram Live and the podcast itself.
I want to jump right into it. I like when people do that on Instagram Live. I looked at your page and I noticed you did that, which I very much respect. I encourage you guys to go shoot her a follow.
I want to know how did you get into the coaching for health coaches? I don’t mean that in a generic way. I mean, did you have health challenges before? Because I find some people kind of get into this space, even if it’s the business coaching side, for very specific reasons. Let’s talk about that first if we can.
[00:03:28] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. I’ve always had an interest in wellness and holistic health. I got into it because I knew I liked business; I knew I liked wellness. I didn’t know how I wanted my passions to come together. So, I did what probably a lot of people on this life have done, which is I got a bunch of certifications, just to see what I liked and to figure out what I want to do.
Hailey’s Health Journey
I ended up getting my bachelor’s in entrepreneurship and then worked in the business development marketing world for wellness startups. I loved that because it combined both interests. I worked on the business side, but also, my whole mission is, by helping them with their business, they’re making the world a healthier place.
So, in 2017, I went off on my own. Because in the startup world, as you know, it’s very stressful. There’s a lot going on. One of the startups that I worked for, because it was a wellness company, they were facing delays and getting certain things approved and blah, blah, blah. The entire company got let go in one day.
And my biggest regret at that time, which is why everybody on this Live was very smart, was kind of putting my coaching completely on the back burner during that time. So, I got back into it starting from scratch in 2017 and wanted to work with wellness professionals, wanted to continue working with that niche.
[00:04:39] Detective Ev: Just to be clear then, it’s not like you haven’t gone through some crazy health challenge or anything like that. You just have this side passion for the health stuff.
[00:04:44] Hailey Rowe: I have actually. I really struggled with acne. Sorry, I should have clarified that. I struggled with acne, and I struggled with some gut health issues because I was on antibiotics a lot when I was a kid.
I got strep throat, like every month. I kept taking antibiotics. Then I didn’t know better in my teens to not take antibiotics for your skin but that’s what happened. I had to go on my own journey really and that has been a process. But doing so much better now.
An Entrepreneur: Drawn into the Holistic World by Health Issues
[00:05:10] Detective Ev: Well, you and I, cause I know that we don’t know each other in that sense. I had many things that were going on, but one of the biggest motivating factors to get into the more holistic side of things was literally one of the worst cases of cystic acne that you’ve probably ever seen. I mean, it was pretty bad.
Yeah, that was the thing. I remember specifically asking my dermatologist when I was a kid, I was probably 15 or 16, for antibiotics. I had went on it for a sinus infection from my family doctor. I said, oh, my acne seemed to get a little bit better. So, they would just give those things out like candy 10, 15 years ago to anyone that “needed them”, quote/unquote. It’s kind of crazy.
But that makes a little more sense. I feel like even if someone’s on the business side, there is usually something that brought them specifically into this kind of world of more natural things. That’s very interesting. That’ll definitely resonate and relate with our practitioners cause they’ve all been through their own thing.
So, when you are getting into the world of business, what are some things to watch out for? What are some things that you wish you knew?
Types of Clients Hailey Coaches
This is what we seem to have here, Hailey. It’s not honestly the norm, but there are people every now and then that come into the world of FDN, where, yeah, they’re born entrepreneurs, right? They were doing the lemonade stands, they were selling things at school, they were doing everything like that. Then they just so happened to also be interested in health or have a story, and they combine those two things.
More often what happens is this, the person has a health challenge, a severe one usually, and the Western medicine model by itself is not working for them. So, they go seek out alternative means. It changes their life, saves their life in certain cases. They’re like, wow! Well, I’d rather go help people and do this than do the other job I was doing before. So, now they want to go into the world of entrepreneurship.
But they’re like, wait a second, I’ve never opened a lemonade stand. I’ve never had an entrepreneurial bone in my body. And we 100% believe here that anyone can figure this out. So, what can we do to even start with people like that who might not have any experience? Do you work with people like that? Are they typically people who have more experience?
[00:06:58] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. I work with people who either are just wrapping up their certification or got their certification and then realized it’s harder than I thought to start a business, or people who’ve had a little bit of success, but it’s not at the consistency that they’d like. A lot of things happen, I think when you start a business or you just graduate your certification, and a lot of things I wish I knew too.
An Entrepreneur: Having a Funnel in Place
One of them is you think that you’re going to put up this website and people are going to come to you. You’re going to tell some friends and family and all of a sudden, you’re just going to be fully booked? The truth is you have to have a couple components in place to really be growing your business.
You have to decide which specific plan you want to have for each of these things. That is, you need to have new people finding you, connecting with new people regularly, whether that’s online or locally. You have to have a way to nurture them and show them the value you provide and what makes you stand out.
Then you have to have a process to convert them into a client. Obviously, not everybody makes it to that stage, that’s why it’s called a funnel. But you know, you gotta have something like that in place. Then, what you’re delivering, so your program delivery and having that figured out. And then client retention.
Those components, a lot of people don’t know that structure, like they’re just kind of all over the place. They’re like, okay, I guess I should set up a website. I guess I should probably just post on social media. But it’s not strategic, it’s not like, there’s a real plan in place.
It’s very easy to get overwhelmed too. This is a whole nother thing you have to learn is how to manage yourself and your mindset and having a business when you’re new to that.
First Steps to Becoming an Entrepreneur
If anybody here has had a corporate job or something, you’re usually told, here’s your responsibilities, your KPIs, here’s what we expect of you. Now, that’s all on you.
I have to be my own marketer and affiliate for my program. I have to be my program creator. I have to be the coach. I have to be all these things, unless you’re going to hire all that out. Which you probably shouldn’t do if you’re brand new, you gotta learn the basics on those things.
So, number one, you need to first of all become really good at managing your time, time batching, and being open to taking a guess at what your next step is and doing it not knowing yet what the outcome is going to be.
Then the second thing, don’t just get a fancy website. I highly recommend first, getting clear on your message, getting proof of concept, meaning working with a couple clients. Then once you’re clearer on your message and what copy converts, meaning what had those people sign up, then you could go and turn that into a fancier website. To start, you could have a pdf, you could have a simple landing page. I help my clients work around that when they’re first starting.
Then the last thing, a huge mistake I see, is focusing on the features and on very generic messaging instead of the results that you provide. And having confidence that when you work with clients and patients that you can help them achieve those results if they’re putting in the view.
I see a lot of people shying away. They’re just saying, improve your health in their messaging, like, feel better, you know? That doesn’t stand out anymore. It doesn’t grab people’s attention.
An Entrepreneur: Focus on the Results of What You Do
Also, if you’re worried about, well, I’m afraid to say, get better sleep, cause I don’t know if they will. Or like, I’m afraid to say X, Y, Z. Well, in your marketing message, you have to obviously be able to tailor your program when you’re working with a client. But the truth is, with the skills that you learn in this program, FDN, you can help them with stuff like that.
Of course, there’s legal things you need to pay attention to, and I have like a lawyer in my guest program who talks about things you can and can’t say. But I think people need to be more focused on what are the results of what you do. Like what’s the ‘so what’ of being healthy and having healthy habits and sleeping through the night and all that stuff in their life or in their career, or in their family. What’s that, and focus on that, that destination instead of, as Alex Ramsi says, the plane ticket. Focus on the destination instead of the plane ticket.
[00:11:05] Detective Ev: I love that you brought up this idea of the funnel and the concept of all these different moving parts. I could be wrong here, but I think what throws a lot of people off is they might know at least one or two people that have done business. Maybe it’s an older person in their family or just an older style of business where they’ve gotten away with not doing those things.
For example, one of my best friends, he’s actually an investor in a business that we have. He owns a dog training business. He’s only 27 years old. It’s not like he’s some old guy.
Can An Entrepreneur Get by with Just Great Customer Service?
But dog training is something that a lot of people need. You can kind of get away with just working your butt off in great customer service. This guy has only been doing this business for three years. He has over 10 employees. They’re doing over $600,000 every single year. He’s making a substantial amount net for himself. He just bought a $900,000 property for this.
By no metric is he doing bad, and yet they don’t even have an email marketing campaign when new leads come in. So, you ask him, well, how the heck did you grow your business? It’s been as simple for them, Hailey, as in our local Facebook groups where we live, they just constantly comment when people ask for dog training.
This is something that I think people really need to understand. There are people out there in that dog training world that already have a problem and they know what the problem is. A lot of people have it and they’re actively seeking the solution.
I think some of the times with the things that we’re dealing with as health coaches, professionals, whatever we want to call ourselves, the more specific that you get, especially with the disease, yes, that’s great. Have that niche. That’s awesome. But you have to understand that people aren’t just going into a Doylestown (I live in Doylestown, Pennsylvania), a Doylestown Facebook group, and talking about, who can help me with my Hashimoto’s? There is someone asking for dog training, Hailey, every day, multiple times a day. That’s not happening with the Hashimoto’s thing.
The Four Basics of Client Attraction for an Entrepreneur
We gotta be a little more specific, I think, to really grab these people’s attention in today’s super busy world. You might need more steps than that. With all of those things that you listed, I’m really curious about what your opinion is on this. Between the marketing, the sales, delivering a good product, the website, obviously, it’s a little overwhelming to do all of those at once, and you even said we don’t have to.
What do you think is like the most important out of those that people are missing? Are they terrible on the phone? Is the marketing trash? Like what’s the one piece that they’re really missing out?
[00:13:14] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. So, I love the dog example and I actually want to reverse engineer that because he is doing a system whether he realizes it or not.
This system is something that whatever marketing platform you choose, a lot of people are missing, like conceptually, seeing that this is the process they’re going through. If you know this, you can now then look at each part and we can see how you could improve it. I call it my four basics of client attraction. It is connect, engage, pre-offer, and sell.
Connecting, what that means is what’s going to be your one or two ways to find your ideal clients and start with the lowest hanging fruit. This is another thing people are missing. They think like, oh my gosh, I’m starting this business. I gotta start posting all the time and being on social media and having all this. No. You can start with just who is the lowest hanging fruit locally who you could maybe collaborate with like that. Or could you sign up for a women’s networking group or something.
An Entrepreneur Needs to Utilize All Four Steps
You gotta decide what’s your way you’re going to connect with new people, then you’re going to engage. That’s how are you going to ask an intentional question or are they going to engage with you? In the dog guy’s case, everybody’s reaching out to him, which is perfect. But engaging with an intentional question is see if they need help with anything to see what they want to see, to see how you can help them.
Then you go into the pre-offer stage, which is like, now that I understand you a little bit better, what you’re looking for, here’s something free of value that’s going to provide a quick win upfront, that’s going to build some trust. That could be like a free guide. That could be a free call. That could be some kind of checklist or webinar.
Then it can be the sales phase where you can say, okay, do you want to go deeper on this? They’ve gotten value out of your pre-offer, and they know you a little better and you give a call to action in your pre-offer usually.
Essentially that’s what a lot of businesses are missing is that they’re not doing those things. Or they’re not connecting with people, they’re just nurturing people. They’re just posting on Instagram, for example, but they have five followers who are their family members and nobody new was discovering them.
I’ll maybe give you one answer of where to start in a second.
An Entrepreneur: A Good Place to Start
But to the point, sometimes when it comes to the sales phase, people are afraid to make that invite to a discovery call, or they don’t know how to word it. They just word it as like, hey, do you want to hop on a free call? But there’s no clarity about why would we be doing that? Like, what’s going on?
So, I think for everybody here though, who’s watching and wants a place to start, I think a good place to start would be who do you want to serve the most and what solution, if you could provide any solution you want to provide, and what could an offer look like for you. I think that’s important first. Once you start doing the marketing side of things, you want to know what you’re talking about or what you’re going to be selling.
[00:15:58] Detective Ev: I find it really interesting that you chose that. I obviously don’t know what you’re going to say. But I was kind of curious because for myself, I’ve always used FDN for different things. I have taken plenty of clients over the years, but I’ve always been doing something else, whether it’s speaking stuff for FDN, whatever it might be. So, I’m not running a full-time practice is my point.
I have never once ever had a website that was dedicated towards health coaching or anything of the sort. I have never had any official marketing kind of stuff for that. I’ve never taken any sales courses per se, although that’s probably one of my more natural strengths compared to those other things.
That’s the point though. I’ve still had clients and some of those clients have paid thousands and thousands of dollars.
An Entrepreneur: Share Your Story & Know Who You’re Talking To
What I did have was my story, and I knew who I wanted to help. So, when I would share these things or talk to people or go somewhere locally, I’m not saying this is the best plan, I’m just saying this worked to some degree, even without all those other things, exactly what you just said. I shared my stories about acne, mental health, and the other things that I went through. Sure enough, the people would come.
Amazingly too, I think so many people worry about the certifications sometimes or degrees or whatever. It has been five and a half years. I’m a relatively young guy. Most of the time I had a shaved face and shaved head, so I looked even younger. Only two people ever really have asked me about my certification. The reason they were asking is because they were fascinated by it not to challenge me on my credentials.
So, I think also the better that you get at talking to a very specific type of person, all of a sudden, they don’t care about all the other stuff that people are constantly paranoid about. They’re like, wow, that person can help me. I don’t care how they’re going to do it. I’m just interested in that.
So, I find it cool that that’s what you picked first. Figure out who the heck you’re talking to rather than the fancy website, rather than all that other stuff. It is important, it will help you. But you could really miss the mark, have the best website in the world, and not have the right information on there for who you’re helping, then no one cares about your fancy website, right?
An Entrepreneur Shouldn’t Major in the Minors
[00:17:47] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. People care about your story. How can you help me? Always ask what’s in it for them.
And same situation here. I don’t think anybody’s ever asked my certifications. I have them. Actually, when I did work at a gym, I did do some training and fitness teaching at a college. I liked that, but I did have certifications for that, obviously, cause you’re working in a place. But if you’re having your own business, I haven’t seen it. I think so often we put emphasis on the wrong things. That’s another point I would share is don’t major in the minors.
Like I had a client who came to me, and she was at about like $4K in her business because she was focusing on things that just weren’t super important. Through our work together she got refocused on those four basics we talked about in her own style. She grew to like $72K end of the year right around there.
It’s really important not to overthink every step of the way. I’m sure this happened for you too, where you picked a message initially and maybe it has evolved over time or maybe you’ve made edits to it. You don’t need to be perfect to start, but you do need to pick something and like go for it. Don’t just dwell on like, well, is this the right thing, or like, am I leaving other people out, all that kind of stuff.
[00:19:02] Detective Ev: Absolutely. It also depends on the season of life that you’re in, or where you’re at with that particular business.
An Entrepreneur Can Evolve Their Message Over Time
I know so many people that are getting into the health coaching thing and they’re looking to replace the job that they have very quickly. Whereas the business that my friend and I just opened, it’s a light therapy studio. We do red-light therapy and stuff.
First of all, I’ve never heard of a light therapy studio, so we already know that we’re opening a business that does not even technically exist. So, that’s going to be troublesome as it is.
But we started out in the beginning because, thank God, we’re not relying on it for income. We’re like, okay, we help you improve your mood, have better skin, or something. I forget what the heck we even said, right? But we just wanted to see kind of what would stick.
We got a little specific, but we were definitely more broad than anyone would recommend a health coach to be, or most businesses to be. We learned over time and we’re like, okay, go figure. Many people are coming in for this skin side of things, right?
Now we’re doing a whole revamp with funnels and the website and stuff like that to actually niche down into the skin side. We learned from it cause we had time. If you don’t have time, I think the more specific that you can be, the better. Like you said, there’s no reason it can’t evolve or change over time.
I think this is the thing that really gets people and correct me if I’m wrong. Let’s say I want to go full-time FDN tomorrow. The first thing I would do is probably start talking about the acne stuff. I think that’s the easy win for me. I would be very specific into that.
An Entrepreneur Can Take Clients Outside of Their Niche
That doesn’t mean that occasionally I can’t take someone who’s coming to me for mental health or gut issues. We’re just talking about the marketing so that I’m speaking to someone.
I think people get it misconstrued that, just because I work with acne means I can never work with anyone else. Especially in FDN, we don’t treat anything specifically. This is a business tactic. It’s not something that the FDN system only works for acne or mental health. No, it’s supposed to be non-specific.
So, do you coach people like that? Do you tell them to take people outside of their niche if they come to them? Or do they just focus in on the niche?
[00:20:47] Hailey Rowe: I think in the beginning of your business if you’re doing private coaching, it’s great to customize based on the person.
As you just said, in your forward messaging, you can be specific about a certain kind of person and problem you solve. But I always told my clients locally, if you wanted to do a different messaging for a specific project or work with a client who has a different issue, totally cool.
I think for me also, I work with health and wellness professionals, but I’ve also worked with life coaches. I’ve worked with mindset coaches, realtors, with other types of service providers. Just because I say that my niche is blank doesn’t mean that other people don’t come to me, or I don’t take other opportunities. Sometimes I do, it just depends.
Obviously, if you have a program, maybe it’s a course or something like that, it’s less customizable, you’ll have to say, No. This is specifically for blank. But I have no issue with customizing or taking on clients outside of your niche.
An Entrepreneur Has to Attract Their Clients’ Attention
[00:21:53] Detective Ev: Cool. I know it seems so simple, but I’m sure you see this literally every day. I have been shocked by how many people think that because I’m niching down in the marketing, that means all of a sudden, I’m no longer allowed to take clients anywhere else. That’s ridiculous.
As we niche down with the red-light therapy into more of a skin thing, am I going to stop the people who come in for pain management? That’s ridiculous, of course not. That’s just an extra bonus now. Right? Because they came in on their own accord, they did research. They know that red-light therapy does that. I don’t have to spend any money educating them on it or doing any marketing towards them. They found us for that and now it’s a bonus client.
But I think people forget that if you try to talk to everyone, you end up talking to no one. Because the internet’s super busy. We’re scrolling mindlessly. We’re just scrolling for fun, more or less, right? So, if you’re trying to actually get someone’s attention, you better be pretty specific about the problem.
And I will tell you this, when I was suffering with the worst of my acne, terrible, feeling awful every single day, if I saw something on my YouTube feed or Instagram or Facebook that had something about cystic acne, yeah, you’re getting me to stop the lull of scrolling for a second, right? Versus if you just say, I help you get to the root cause of your health issues. Scroll. I’m going to keep going right away.
By the way, people, you guys are more than welcome to ask questions. I did see that we had some comments. I’ll hit those up really quick.
How Quickly Can an Entrepreneur Recover Their ROI?
Someone said, I went from owning my own practice and clinic and helped promoting a restaurant and now moving it all online. That’s the challenge. Yeah, definitely sounds like a bit of a challenge, but I’m sure you’ll figure it out.
I don’t think we have any other specific questions. I haven’t invited people to do that yet anyway. While we’re waiting for that, if they have any, I know we wanted to talk today about maybe recovering the cost of the program. Because FDN to me is a very good and very simple math problem. You know, I’ve been here for five and a half years, so I’m a little biased. But I know it’s something that people can recover quickly.
So, I’m curious from like someone who actually does business coaching, their perspective. How would you break this down? Let’s say I sign up for FDN, I do the 12-month payment plan. So, I’m probably paying like $600, $700 a month. I could do as low as 24 and pay $300, $400 a month. But humor me. Let’s say I did a 12 month one. How does that go? I graduated in six to seven months. How can I recover that cost of the program as quick as possible?
[00:23:57] Hailey Rowe: Well, one thing I think is important to start with when you start a business is to remember that it’s not, I’m waiting to get my ROI back. Like I had a post about this a while ago. It’s, I’m going to go create my return on investment.
An Entrepreneur: An Easier and Faster Way to Create ROI
The good news, and especially if you believe in coaching where we are empowered and we get to create our health and create our life and improve ourselves, I really believe that if you go in with that mindset, you’re going to be resourceful. You are going to figure it out and make your investment back. I think that’s the first thing.
But number two, I think it’s important to decide on what we call like your offers, your offer ladder or whatever, right? Which is, most people when they’re starting out, I highly recommend starting with private coaching. Number one, it gives you experience very quickly. Number two, you can charge more because it’s more personalized. Number three, you’re going to be able to really be hands-on with this client and first testimonials, your client win stories.
So, I think it’s really important to probably start with a higher ticket, one-on-one coaching program or offer. Then you can later on have courses or have a group program or stuff like that. I have clients who want to do that. I have a client who has a membership and that’s all cool. But I think it’s going to be easier and faster to make your investment back if you’re going to just work with a couple of private clients.
So, that said, I think once you get that set up and your price figured out, I think a lot of people are afraid, like, well, if I develop a six-month program and it is thousands of dollars, what if I miss out on all the other opportunities. My suggestion is, make the offer for the main program if that’s what the person really needs.
Can Anyone Be an Entrepreneur?
Worst case, you could have like a one-month jumpstart, or you could have like a three-month down sell or something like that. I think that we get so nervous, just like with the niche thing where we’re like, well, if I marry one niche, I’m stuck to it for the rest of my life. It’s same thing with programs.
You can start with the main one you want to offer that’s the main price you want to offer it at. And if you’re willing to customize a one-month jumpstart or something, if somebody needs that, you can. But I think that that’s probably the best, fastest way to start making your investment back.
[00:26:14] Detective Ev: Do you believe that some people are just not made for entrepreneurship, or do you think that everyone can do this at some level if they really choose to? I want the honest answer for that cause I don’t know what your opinion is on it.
[00:26:30] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Some people are more naturally inclined. They just naturally have skill sets that can help them. But everybody has to learn skill sets no matter where you’re starting from.
I had to learn even though I like performing. I grew up singing and stuff, so I wasn’t shy going on camera or talking to people. I was used to that. But I had to learn a whole bunch of other skills I never thought I could have, and you can.
So, I think it really comes down to if you have an internal locus of control. If you think, if you work on something or you’re open to learning or you have that open mind, I think you can be an entrepreneur.
An Entrepreneur: Entrepreneurship is the Ultimate Personal Development Program
If you think the world, everything happens to you, you have no control over any results you create, you think you are forever shy and you will never ever be able to open that up, then I think maybe you have to shift first to a open mind. That you get to expand yourself based on what you do and what you think and how you feel and all of that, and then you can become an entrepreneur. That’s the first step that’s really important.
[00:27:35] Detective Ev: The reason I ask that is cause when you were describing all those things, I’m thinking like, yes, obviously some people might be more inclined towards having the natural abilities and certain skills. We all know someone that could sell ice to an Eskimo. We all know certain people that are so easily able to empathize with others that thay make some phenomenal marketers even without maybe formal training. So, fair enough.
But that’s the thing. When someone says, “natural entrepreneur”, quote/unquote, no one is born naturally with all of those skills. I think if anything, based on what you were saying before, the natural ability is really this openness and willingness to engage with constant change, a little bit of uncertainty, a little bit of insecurity. You’re going to have to take some risks.
I’ve heard it said before that entrepreneurship is actually the ultimate personal development program. You know, the media loves this stuff. They love any scam artist that made it to the top cause it makes for great news. It makes for an easy headline. And yes, unfortunately, guys, that does exist. That is not even close to the norm of business owners.
An Entrepreneur and an Employee Both Take Risks
I was very lucky at 18 to get involved with some pretty amazing people that were adults that were willing to mentor us cause we were young. These people all read; they’re all dedicated to personal development in all areas of their life. They’re some of the most physically healthy that I know, they have some of the best relationships that I know, like intimate ones or long-term marriages. What is the correlation there?
Well, I think the correlation is that these people are willing to engage in personal development because, yeah, none of us are going to be naturally good at all those skills. Most of us don’t want to go out there and put ourselves on camera or do whatever.
I hated public speaking. I dropped out of my college class two weeks in because I was so scared. That didn’t just change overnight, where all of a sudden, I said, actually all of a sudden, I like this now. There was a genuine effort into that.
I think what tricks a lot of people is they get confused that their job is safe. But they don’t remember stories like the one that you mentioned in the beginning, right? People can get fired; people can get laid off.
It’s interesting because they’re so scared of entrepreneurship thinking it’s risky. I’m like, at some point though, if you’re working a job, you work for an entrepreneur at some level. How is it not just as risky to them? Do you know what I mean though? It’s like everyone’s taking a risk here, so you might as well take a shot at doing something you actually like.
Hailey Describes Her Confident FDN Clients
Sorry, I know I said a lot. I don’t know if you have comments on that, but if you do, great. If not, I’d love to talk about some of your client testimonials. I’m not sure if you’ve had any FDNs work with you specifically. But if not just the health coaches that you work with, that’s fine too. It’s similar enough.
Pretty confidently, not arrogantly, I think FDN is a lot better than many health coach programs out there. Anything that you give a testimonial to potentially we can just do that even better, which is great. So, do you have any client success stories or want to add anything?
[00:30:02] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. I have worked with some FDN professionals. I will say they come in really confident about their delivery and their coaching, which is half the battle. Cause sometimes people come in not confident about their coaching skills, and then they gotta work on that too and starting a business a ton. That’s just a lot.
But I will say I’ve had clients, just to give you an example of somebody who is really starting from scratch. I think a lot of people worry like if I’m starting from scratch, am I really going to get very far? She didn’t know what kind of niche she wanted to work with. She actually thought, I think I want to be like a YouTuber with my coaching.
Then she realized, well, I want to offer coaching too. So, she thought she wanted to monetize a YouTube channel, then she ended up wanting to have a one on one-on-one program.
Hailey’s Client Wins
We developed that; we developed her standout method. She was able to book her first high ticket clients and have her first $5K month. Then it went up to an $8K month. Then when she graduated, she had an $11K month. That was somebody who was very new, who was a mom of a toddler. She wanted to start this and be able to gain the confidence to be an online business owner.
Then I’ve had another client who was more burnt out, meaning she felt like she tried a ton of different things. She felt like she was spinning her wheels when it comes to marketing and sales. She was a little more established, meaning she already had products and a program and stuff. We picked up where she was, and she was able to have her first six figure.
So, it depends on the client. But I have a lot of client wins on my profile in the highlight section. There’s a client win section and you can also go to haileyrowe.com/training. There’s a free training there with some testimonials as well that talks about how to get clients and how my framework that I use to do that with.
[00:31:45] Detective Ev: Someone commented, can you post this to watch later? Yes. All of our Instagram Lives we will have it saved for you on this page. And the audio recording, if you want to walk around with it, will be on the Health Detective Podcast sometime probably next week. I think I’m going to be able to get this out that quickly. So, you can listen to the audio there or you could rewatch it in literally 10 minutes after we get off because it will be posted.
Hailey’s Typical Client
Is your typical client, Hailey, someone who is trying to just break through to that six-figure mark, or are some of them higher than that? What’s the average one?
[00:32:13] Hailey Rowe: With my coaching, I do usually people who are trying to get to that first six figures. I’ve had clients who are at six figures, and they want to scale, or they want to outsource. They’re usually private clients and I love that too.
But from the other service that I do is called LinkedIn Lead Generation. It’s a done for you service. The clients I work with there, they’re usually a little more established. They’re at, at least $5K a month or more. At that point they want to start outsourcing and getting some of their time back. That service is something that helps them do that.
So, it depends. But most of my clients, I would say, are kind of like not seeing consistent results, really struggling with getting to that point.
[00:32:50] Detective Ev: Okay. The reason I was asking that is cause one, the six-figure thing I think is such a mindset thing. A lot of people talk about like the first $100K is the hardest part.
I think with inflation and the economy changing, it might be a little different. What’s kind of humbling for people is you get to six figures and you’re like, holy crap, this is not that much anymore. You’re barely middle class, right? You’re not living luxuriously by any means. Like, I need to figure out something even more than that. So, that should be the baseline that we’re setting for ourselves.
How Long Does It Take an Entrepreneur to Hit Six Figures?
This is where you can tell it’s a personal development journey. In my eyes now looking at something even like FDN, let alone people with multiple certifications, six figures should be easy. I do not mean that in an insulting way. I’m just saying from the lens now, it really should be easy. To me, it shows that something is wrong up here with the way they’re thinking about this or approaching it that they can’t go out and do this.
So, the reason I asked what the goal was, I know you can’t make claims, that’s not what we’re doing here. That’s my disclaimer. How long does it typically take? Let’s say maybe I’ve taken one or two clients on my own, I’m really not having a lot of success, I’ve made a few thousand dollars. How long does it take for me to get to the six-figure mark?
Is that something that’s normally going to take me six months? Is it going to take me a year? I don’t care what the answer is too. We’re not looking for perfection, I just want people to have realistic expectations.
[00:34:01] Hailey Rowe: I think it takes, as long as it takes you to line up with that. I’ve had clients who are working a full-time job, have 30 minutes a day to work on their business, have six kids.
It depends on your priorities too. That client who only has 30 minutes a day, it might take them a little bit longer. I’ve had clients though, who have two hours a day and are a busy mom and do other things, and they still have been able to have their first $5k five to $10k month. That’s totally possible. It’s just about how you prioritize the time.
An Entrepreneur: Priorities, Approach, Time & Prioritization Matter
I would also say that it depends too on what your approach is. If you’re like I just really want to do Pinterest or something, that’s what we call a longer-term platform. It takes longer to see success on it. If you’re like, no, I’m cool with doing the lowest hanging fruit first and doing some local marketing, then we can get your first clients more quickly. So, it depends on the approach.
It depends on how much time we’re working with and the prioritizing of that time. It’s not just about the time, cause you can be working smarter than maybe how you’re currently doing it with researching everything and downloading free trainings and scrolling social media instead of actually using it for your business and all this stuff.
But I would say my goal, my six-month program, is to really help my clients have the tools, have the sales skills, have the marketing skills to be able to know and book $5k to $10k months and keep building on that. Because once you have those skills, as you said, that’s the hardest part cause you’re making that jump to that new identity. Then you keep scaling it. It becomes more natural then, like a new ceiling is the goal and you can get there.
[00:35:38] Detective Ev: I don’t always think it’s this simple, but for me at the time, it was appropriate. You know, people talk about having Goal Cards and visualization. I think all that’s great, that’s not what I’m saying. But I just don’t think it’s as simple as what I’m about to say.
An Entrepreneur: Benefits from Visualizing & Reframing
I had a barrier in my head about a certain amount of money being made a month, right? It was over six figures. But it just wasn’t something that I thought should be totally impossible, and I just could not get it. All I did, Hailey, was I had a little Goal Card. I’m just like, you know, I haven’t done this in a while. I’m going to do this.
I wrote down that amount of money. I said, I am making this amount per month. I’m not saying that the Goal Card necessarily did some woo-woo black magic and all of a sudden brought that in. What I am suggesting though, is that you talked about it, it’s like almost like this belief, it’s this reframing. It’s this idea that I am worth this or I can do this.
I believe what occurred for me is that just having to look at that more often, cause it was in my wallet, and I’d keep it in my pocket sometimes too. So, every time my hand went in, I had my hands on it. I’m thinking about that. There was a visualization that I associated and tied to that Goal Card.
It took three months and that number got hit even though I was trying for over a year to hit it prior to that. Maybe the Goal Card was symbolic for me being more intentional about it, and maybe I was being more intentional in other areas that I don’t know. I haven’t figured that out yet. But there is an identity thing.
An Entrepreneur: Don’t Overthink the Whole Process
Guys, people like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk are not a thousand, 10,000 times smarter than you. They’re not 10,000 times harder working than you. They don’t have 10,000 more minutes in the day, that’s for sure. There’s gotta be something else. There has to be something else that’s the missing variable. I think a lot of it is that identity and of course skills. But I mean, a lot of it is identity.
[00:37:09] Hailey Rowe: I’m so glad you brought that up cause my first six figure year, I did the same thing. I wrote every day present tense in my journal, I am at, you know, $100K. That was the year that it happened.
The other thing is, going back to Jeff Bezos and stuff, you can’t be waiting around. And you don’t have the luxury, if you’re low on time, like to be overthinking and dwelling in self-doubt and doing all these things. Jeff Bezos, he was interviewed, and he said, when I’m 40% sure about a decision, I do it. I’m just like, what?
Success in your business loves speed. That doesn’t mean you’re going to do everything right. Obviously, evaluate. Is this a calculated risk or is this me just being completely unrealistic? That was an important point to make because so often I see people just overthink the whole process. They could have been a lot further if they would’ve just taken the step and then built the confidence that comes as a result of taking that step.
An Entrepreneur: Impulsivity Versus Quick Decisiveness
[00:38:05] Detective Ev: Yes. I just posted. It wasn’t my video, but I posted a video about this yesterday. This guy, it’s called PBD, but it’s Patrick Bet David. He’s from Valuetainment. He talked about the speed variable that you just talked about. Actually, the video’s called like the number one personality trait of high achievers. It was that ability to make a quick decision.
This is not to be confused with impulsivity. It’s not the person that sees the discount shopping rack and all of a sudden, their credit card gets racked up. That’s impulsiveness. A quickness of decision is, hey, we need to do this for the company boss person. What should we do? We’ll get to it next month. That doesn’t work in entrepreneurship. You know, like you gotta be able to make quick decisions.
What will happen is you’re going to screw up some of the time. I’m guessing Jeff Bezos has screwed up many times, especially if he’s operating at 40% of assuredness. But you learn from that and then you keep going. Again, I think that’s why, I’ll keep coming back to it, it is a personal development journey.
So many people, the reason that jobs work great for them is it’s very black and white. You either did your job or you didn’t do it. Then you get your paycheck, and it keeps you very safe and very comfortable. But unfortunately, you won’t be able to grow out of that. Now, I do things. I’ve worked this as a job, right? I’m not condemning a job. But I think if we want to become the best versions of ourselves, it is very wise to have something in our lives.
An Entrepreneur: Signature Podcast Question
Even if you happen to scroll upon this and you’re not even in the health space, find something that you can do that requires some level of entrepreneurship. I think it’ll help you grow more than most things.
Now, Hailey one thing I want to finish up with today, I feel like this is kind of organically getting to where we wanted it to go. One thing that we would usually ask on the show is what would people that we’re interviewing get everyone else in the world to do for their health?
But today we’re talking about business. So, if you could wave a magic wand and Hailey could get every single business owner out there, whether it’s a health practitioner or any other business owner to do one thing for their dang business, what is the one thing that you’d get them to do?
[00:39:51] Hailey Rowe: Okay. I want to answer both for business and health, though.
So, for business, I would hope everybody here gets comfortable with emotional intelligence and building relationships. You have to be able to read the room, you have to be able to understand your clients, what they want and need. You need to be able to build rapport and relationships. Relationships are key in business. People buy from people.
The other thing though for health is going on walks. Walking outside is the best thing I think I’ve ever done. I do fancy things too, like, you know, use a sauna and all that stuff. But walks.
Where to Find Hailey Rowe
[00:40:26] Detective Ev: Awesome. Then, I mean, this is kind of obvious because clearly people can follow you on Instagram because they’re using Instagram right now. Is there anything else that they need to know though in terms of where they can find you or what you’re up to?
I feel like we talked about pretty well who you help and who you like to support in their business, we have all that covered. But I want to ask you directly to make sure we did touch on all of it.
Then I have a free training at haileyrowe.com/training that talks about how to book clients consistently without needing to post all the time or needing a big audience. That also goes over some of the client wins and stuff that we talked about.
[00:41:11] Detective Ev: Cool! Guys, please go shoot Hailey a follow. I went through her Instagram over the last couple of days. You’re one of those people that’s actually providing legitimate value and really putting an effort in. I think people sometimes underestimate that. You can learn a lot from someone’s Instagram.
Maybe you’re not ready to make an investment in something like that. That’s fine. Go learn something from her. Use that to make some money and then make the investment once you’re ready. That seems pretty sensible to me.
Conclusion
If you guys like the interviews like this where we bring on someone who’s talking more about business, please let us know and we might just have Hailey on in the future or someone similar that can maybe talk about a different specific thing. Shoot us a DM. We have real humans that answer you guys. No chat bots in our world.
Thank you so much for tuning in. And Hailey, thanks for sharing your expertise. It is beyond obvious that you know what you’re talking about. We appreciate your time.
[00:41:52] Hailey Rowe: Thank you so much for having me. This was super fun.
The 2022 term of the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program has wrapped up and we are unbelievably proud of this year’s incredible community. Our 2022 crew came from across the globe, with over 30 countries represented and everyone had an infinite level of wisdom and inspiration to offer.
The grand finale of the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program, their final assignment, is a 2-hour live class facilitated by our culinary nutrition experts-in-training. This is an opportunity for our students to incorporate all of the skills they’ve learned throughout the semester and share what they know about culinary nutrition with family, friends, or coworkers.
It brings us tremendous joy to hear about how their classes went. Our students often feel:
exhilarated
totally in their element
excited to teach again
proud and affirmed by the praise from their guests and the impact of the class
surprised at how much culinary nutrition knowledge naturally rolled off their tongues
Our students are always a little nervous about teaching a cooking class, but every year they are filled with elation and gratification after they totally rock it.
We are so proud to share photos of some of our students, of their smiling faces, delicious food and pride at a job well done!
Catherine Casey, Fort Worth, Texas
“Super happy with my workshop last night. It was a lot of fun! I made it interactive and everyone had a great time!! It pays to just be yourself and let your passion for all you’ve learned show!”
Ronia Restom, Elk Grove, California
“Whew 😅. I finally had my workshop yesterday! What an experience. Thank you CNE for pushing me to do something so out of my comfort zone that I would have never done without this opportunity. I was so nervous but challenged myself through it and so proud of myself for it.”
Lizdabel Morales, San Juan, Puerto Rico
“Success!!! I had my cooking workshop last night. It was a lot of fun. My friends loved all the foods and were super engaged and asking lots of good questions! I am still cleaning the mess in the kitchen 😂.”
Laurie Rossi, Newmarket, Ontario
“What a great feeling doing a workshop on Osteoporosis. I learned so much and it felt empowering to share information on bone health. I fractured my big toe 2 weeks ago when a large cutting board slid off the kitchen cupboard and squarely landed on my toe. Ouch, ouch, ouch! This community kept my spirits up and you all motivated me to keep going throughout the program. I loved the live classes – I will miss this CNE community and the homework.”
Waheema Asghar, Victoria, British Columbia
“Wow, done and done! It was so motivating to see the learning happening before me. We had two cancellations due to the flu so my participants had the chance to feast. Also, a huge shout out to my baby who slept the entire two hours! Talk about well timed planning! My heart is full, this was so much fun! 🥳”
Ria Maldonado, MacHenry, Illonois
“Had so much fun on my very first Culinary Nutrition Workshop! Well, the guests loved all I prepared and cooked for them and were so amazed and grateful for what they’ve learned about these brain-boosting Foods. They’re even looking forward to my next cooking classes soon. I felt so great and accomplished to be able to share what I’ve learned in this program. My family was so excited, and they were involved with all the prep. My son – food prep, daughter – photographer/videographer, my husband – dishwasher😂! Thank you so much ACN!❤️”
Rosa Sanchez, Corona, California
“Workshop was a success! I spoke on Pancreatitis and I learned a lot. It was fun seeing them learn new things and get educated on amazing antioxidant rich food! I loved that they had no idea the benefits that food has. They left wanting to eat more real food and with so much energy. This has been an amazing journey, beyond grateful!🥰”
Cam Shackleton, Capetown, South Africa
That was such an amazing experience! Workshop on healing foods for eczema DONE! I had 8 attendees and I knew none of them before hosting the workshop (I “advertised” in the local WhatsApp group for my road as well as the one for our local food club, because I really wanted to share with actual eczema sufferers). The feedback blew me away – I feel so inspired and motivated by the whole experience.”
Lauren Leitner, Los Angeles, California
“And that is a wrap – or should I say sweet potato? I did a virtual class and honed in on the sweet potato: sweet potato soup and a warm lentil and sweet potato salad. I focused healing foods for eczema and inflammation. It was a blast and grateful for this course for making this just the beginning of what is to come.”
Elizabeth Sanicola, East Quogue, New York
“This was super scary, but so glad this course pushed me to do it! Family friendly meals for ADHD and mental focus. So often elimination diets are the place to begin but this feels super daunting. Instead, I want to try to flip the script to think about what you can ADD to our diet or make easy swaps to create abundant health.
I loved how this night created a place for us to talk about food and health without the distraction of kids and life that often gets in the way. If nothing else, it made me want to create more space for this among friends and our community, as it is much needed and people are much more interested than we might expect! Not sure where I’m taking things yet, but excited for the next steps!”
Meagan Blunt, Coburg, Ontario
“Workshop complete on Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I had a great time presenting and realized it’s not easy to talk and chop at the same time! I’m so grateful for all that I’ve learned during this course and also the support of this wonderful community. It was truly better than I could have ever expected💜. Looking forward to the future!”
Nancy Gribble, Spring Texas
“My workshop was on plant-based foods for menopause and optimal aging. I have to admit it was a humbling experience – trying to cook (which has not been my skillset), talk, remember information and answer questions. Whew!!
It was also very fun. The Culinary Nutrition Expert Program has reminded me how much I love talking about, teaching and sharing about the power of our foods for optimal health and healing. I’m super excited to be joining the business program so I can hone in on how I plan to do this!”
Abby Gainforth, Toronto, Ontario
“What an incredible journey this program has been! I’m going to miss it, but everything I’ve learned will stay with me forever, and this is just the beginning. Shout out to Meghan Telpner for this incredible program and to my amazing coach Wendy Rose for her guidance and support throughout. I had signed up for the honorary program but switched at the last minute, and I’m so glad I did. I also can’t say enough about the positivity, resources, and support in this group. Congratulations to all! 👏👏🥳❤️”
Michelle Edwards, Memphis, Tennessee
“And that’s a wrap! Well I didn’t actually make any wraps but we did it you all! We made it – we made lots of things including lots of dirty dishes and we had a lot of fun doing it didn’t we? I’m excited to keep cooking and growing and seeing what this group is up to, and I thank you for your support, encouragement and inspiration along the way! I love seeing how we are all feeding our corners of the world – keep it yummy y’all 💗.”
Shannon Baerg, Victoria, British Columbia
“Wow! The time has gone by fast, and it also feels like the start of the course was a year ago! We have all been such busy bees whirling around our kitchens cooking this, creating that, writing our hearts out! It’s been a journey that’s for sure. I have learned so much and noticed that my confidence in cooking and creating recipes has definitely improved, need to work on not being so nervous in front of others, even my own cycling team! They were so amazing though! I’m proud of myself (I rarely say this), and so glad I stuck with the course!”
You’ll be making these Chocolate Hazelnut Balls on repeat this year
Sitting here posting these today but they’ve been sitting in my freezer for the past month. Smart-self back in December (amidst all that chaos) thought January-hit-the-ground-running-self would really appreciate a quick snack and these were the result.
They taste like you nut-ella-what, but better, and have the added beauty and bonus nutrients such as:
magnesium in cacao,
fibre in dates,
plant proteins and healthy fats to satiate appetite in hazelnuts,
and if you pop in some of your go-to protein powder you’re making them a skin loving, extra protein rich snack too.
CHOCOLATE HAZELNUT BALLS
Makes 14
Gluten free : Dairy Free : Vegan (option)
150g dried dates, roughly chopped
1 1/3 cups hazelnut meal*
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
2 tablespoons raw cacao powder
1/4 hazelnut butter
2-3 tablespoons maple syrup
Opt: 2 serves collagen powder
Hemp seeds or another of your favourite for rolling
Soak dates in boiling water for 10 minutes. Drain water into a jar and use in your smoothie. Pop the dates and remaining ingredients in a food processor and blitz to form a dough. Measure heaped tablespoons, roll and coat with hemp seeds. Store in fridge up to 2 weeks or freezer for 3 months.
*Find hazelnut meal right next to almond meal in major supermarkets
This combination of flavours will BLOW YOUR MIND. A full explosion of sweet, freshness, salty, spicy, creaminess. Serve with bbq white fish and crusty sourdough bread for the most delicious summer salad.
Easy produce swaps for you:
+ swap peaches for nectarines
+ kalamata for green olives
+ oregano for flat leaf parsley
+ remove seeds from jalapeno for a milder dressing
TOMATO WATERMELON JALAPENO OLIVE SALAD
Serves 4-6 as a side
4 heirloom or vine ripened tomatoes
2 ripe peaches, cut into thin wedges
1 small red onion, thinly sliced
250g watermelon, thinly sliced, cut into triangles
1/3 cup pitted kalamata olives, sliced
100g feta cheese, crumbled
2 tablespoons mint leaves, finely chopped, reserve small leaves for garnish
Arrange tomatoes, peaches, onion and watermelon on platter. Sprinkle with olives, cheese and herbs. Make the dressing by combining extra virgin olive oil, lime zest and juice and jalepeno in a screw top jar. Season with sea salt and black pepper and shake well to combine. Drizzle salad with dressing, sprinkle with pinenuts and serve with extra mint leaves and lime wedges.
Has food become all-consuming, where you spend most of your day thinking about it?
Before joining the Mindful Nutrition Method™, Pippa struggled to implement all of the knowledge that she had about nutrition into her life. She said this made her feel like a failure and that she lacked self-discipline, leading her to feel worthless.
As she searched for some way of eating that would stick for her, she found herself in the start-and-stop cycle, always looking for the next food rule she could try that might work.
This took a big toll on her relationship with food. After working through the program, she realized that she had all of this information about nutrition, but she struggled to implement it into her life because she didn’t have the tools, practices, or skills to do so.
Now that Pippa was guided on how to integrate her habits into her life through small yet impactful practices and using simple tools, she feels so much freer and lighter that they come so naturally to her.
Watch her story below!
The Challenge: Information Overload & Bad vs. Good Food Mentality
Pippa shared that she struggled to find a balanced and consistent way of nourishing herself for most of her life — since she was a child.
She realized that “I had all of this nutrition knowledge about what I should and shouldn’t be eating, and what were good foods or bad or treats, but I was rarely consistent.
And I think that has a long-term detrimental effect on lots of other elements within your life because it’s unhealthy of engaging with yourself. And I would say most of my adult life, I just didn’t have anyone to help bring all of my knowledge together, and so meal times and food, it has very much been a sort of love/ hate relationship, I would say for many, many years.”
Pippa goes on to share how this made her feel about food, sharing how it impacted her self-worth.
“It sounds really dramatic when I say this, but I think it made me feel worthless…I’m not getting it right means that I’m constantly failing at something. And when you feel like you’re failing at something and not being your best self constantly, it kind of makes you feel you’re out of control or lacking discipline, which is all really negative and really chips away at you and your confidence. That feeling of worthlessness was there for years.”
And Pippa is not alone in feeling this way about food and our relationship with it.
How She Tried To Overcome This Mindset
Pippa tried overcoming this struggle by learning more about nutrition, but it kept her feeling stuck on how to put it into practice.
“I read up about nutrition so I’ve tried to arm myself with the knowledge. And like I said, a moment ago, it’s very well having the knowledge, but putting it into practice and changing some behaviors and what have you, is difficult unless you have something like the MNM, which I think is really what hinges it all together.”
But thankfully, Pippa sought out something different this time around. She decided to break the cycle and create a new, balanced relationship with food for herself.
What Supported Pippa To Find Peace With Food
In order to get out of information overload, remove the all-or-nothing mentality, and stop stressing about food, you need to discover a new way of thinking about food. You need to discover a new relationship with food.
This new relationship needs to be unique to you and your needs. It needs to be tailored to your individuality. A balanced relationship like this allows you to tune into your body, feel confident in your own choices, and feel free from the stress of the scale.
It’s all about finding what works for you, rather than making yourself fit into a diet or plan that someone else swears by. So let’s dive into exactly how Pippa did that!
1. Making Food Choices That Feel Good To her
One of the primary concepts we focus on inside of the Mindful Nutrition Method™ is listening to the body’s cues and making food choices that feel empowering, good, and nourishing to you. Students learn to tune into their bodies and trust the messages it’s sending so they can feel confident about the choices they make for themselves.
This helps eliminate that feeling of constantly being stressed about food.
Learning this skill allowed Pippa to look at her needs in a different way.
“It’s been a gradual process, but I think that’s the beauty of it. I genuinely feel more in control and as a result, and I use that word differently. So when I say control, it seems like I’m being strict with myself. I don’t mean that, but I feel like I’m owning my decisions with food and food in the way I’ve not done so before. And I feel as a result, it’s a bit of a … Quite a bit freer, but lighter.”
The check-in practices we teach inside of the program guide you to tune into your body. They allow you to bring awareness to the patterns you have with your eating habits. You then learn how to best align your actions with what works best for you.
This inner knowing makes it much easier to make changes. You’re no longer following what someone else is telling you to do. Instead, you’re using your own self-awareness to feel confident in what allows you to feel your best.
2. Finding Easy Wins That Build Consistency
Pippa tapped into using the Mindful Nutrition Method tools including the Foundational Five, meal prep, and of course the mindset work inside the course.
When she put all these pieces together she gained a new perspective and clarity with her food choices.
“I was floundering in the dark and now I feel like I am much more in the light, much kinder to myself, much more knowledgeable. The [foundational] nutritional five is a bedrock of my nutrition now. It’s such a simple, easy win, and I don’t think I’ve mentioned enough about the actual program, but yeah, to sum up before and now I would say floundering in the dark to feeling empowered and much more literally in the lights right now as a result of being in the Method.”
When asked if she would recommend the Mindful Nutrition Method program to anyone else, she shared:
“I genuinely don’t think you would find anything that would do this for you other than the Method, because it really is … It’s run by people who genuinely care, there’s some fantastic tips, like the nutritional five, you get to learn how to listen to your body and honor yourself. The stop drop and ask. There’s so many little bits and pieces that you start to use in your daily life that make a massive impact…you just won’t regret it.”
Learn How To Feel Confident, Balanced, and At Peace With Food.
This is such a beautiful transformation from Pippa. We’re so grateful to have been a part of her journey in making all of this possible for her! Now you can also learn these same tools and strategies by first watching the free class.
You’ll learn about the #1 Habit That Keeps You Struggling With Your Weight and your Relationship With Food — And How To Break Free From The Diet And Food Obsession Starting Now.
How much does sweating from a sauna or exercise get rid of lead and mercury?
In my video Is Henna Safe?, I talk about a study that proved lead could be absorbed through the skin and into the body. Researchers applied lead to someone’s left arm and then measured the level of lead in the sweat from their right arm over the next few days. As you can see at 0:16 in my video Flashback Friday: Can Saunas Detoxify Lead from the Body?, there was a big spike, proving that lead can not only go into our body, but also out of it. If we can lose lead through sweat, can we sweat for detoxification?
“No person is without some level of toxic heavy metals in their bodies, circulating and accumulating with acute and chronic lifetime exposures.” Cultures around the world have viewed sweating as health-promoting. “Worldwide traditions and customs include Roman baths, Aboriginal sweat lodges, Scandinavian saunas…and Turkish baths,” but what does the science say?
When I looked up saunas, I was surprised to see a study on the detoxification of 9/11 rescue workers, with a regimen that “included exercise, sauna bathing and vitamin and mineral supplements.” As you can see at 1:00 in my video, the researchers reported on seven individuals. Evidently, during the month before the treatment, polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) levels in their blood stayed about the same. Following the treatment, however, all rescue workers had measurable decreases in these PCBs and reportedly felt better, too. They had all sorts of symptoms—respiratory, neurological, musculoskeletal—and they all felt better after the treatment. These improvements were consistent with nearly 400 others treated with the same protocol.
Hold on. If 400 people were treated, why were the results from only seven individuals reported? That’s a bit of a red flag, but not as red as this: The detoxification regimen was developed by L. Ron Hubbard, the man who founded the infamous Church of Scientology. What’s more, the lead author of the detoxification paper appears to have failed to disclose his financial conflict of interest for presumably profiting off of the treatments.
Nevertheless, sweating does represent a “time-honored treatment” in the field of medicine for mercury poisoning, going back centuries. But other time-honored medical treatments include drilling open people’s skulls to release evil spirits or even giving people mercury itself. Remember mercurochrome? What do you think the “mercuro” stood for? In fact, some believe Mozart died of mercury poisoning trying to cure his syphilis, though all of the bloodletting he got probably didn’t help either. Bloodletting, another time-honored medical treatment that makes Scientology saunas look mild in comparison. There was a case report that described a person who apparently recovered from mercury poisoning “after six months of sweats and physical therapy,” though he might have gotten better anyway. You don’t know…until you put it to the test.
Mercury wasn’t formally studied, but lead was. Study participants stayed in a 200-degree dry sauna for 15 minutes, and, based on sweating rates, about 40 micrograms of lead were forced out of the body, with some people getting rid of 100 micrograms or more per 15-minute session. So, you could drink a gallon of chicken broth, and, even if you absorbed all of the lead in the bone soup, you could be back to baseline after just one sauna session.
Are saunas safe for children? “Based on the present scientific knowledge, sauna bathing poses no risks to healthy people from childhood to old age,” though medical supervision couldn’t hurt. This doesn’t mean it would be as effective in children because adults sweat a lot more than kids do, and, of course, kids are the ones who need lead detoxing the most, as you can see at 3:36 in my video. “There is a clear need for robust trials”—robust clinical trials—to test all of this, but even if it works, it’s not as though everyone who needs it—even those who need it most, like a child in Flint, Michigan—will have access to a sauna. That’s why I was so excited to find a paper that investigated the change in blood lead levels of basketball players after strenuous exercise. Saunas aren’t the only way to sweat. What about strenuous physical activity?
A study found that aerobic endurance training led to a drop in lead levels, with rowing more effective than cycling, but how long and how intense did the workout need to be? The paper was in German, but it seems the researchers ramped up the stationary bike by 50 watts every two minutes until the subjects reached exhaustion. So, it was probably just a few minutes with no significant before-and-after difference in blood or urine lead levels, whereas an hour-long endurance exercise row did seem to drop lead levels by about 12 percent.
I could read the basketball player study, though, since it was in English, and, as you can see at 4:38 in my video, college basketball players’ blood lead levels significantly increased—by nearly 300 percent—after a single intense training session on the court. The researchers suspected it was because it was so contaminated where they were playing. The study was done in Turkey, where the lead levels in the air are so high that all of that extra breathing by the athletes evidently made things worse, which I think underscores an important point.
All of the dietary tweaks I’ve talked about for lead poisoning and sweating it out could be thought of as more expedient and less costly than primary prevention—that is, getting at the root cause. However, “this represents a retreat of sorts from previous commitments to a clean environment and to abatement of hazardous pollutants” in the first place. Indeed, lifestyle “nutritional interventions should be thought of only as temporary solutions and continued emphasis must be placed on eliminating lead in children’s environments” in the first place.
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Welcome to the Health Detective Podcast. My name is Evan Transue, AKA Detective Ev. I will be your host for this show where we will be analyzing 2 different HTMA tests. Here is today’s episode.
All right. Hello there, Kim. Welcome to the Health Detective Podcast. How are you?
[00:00:16] Kim Heintz: Hey, thanks so much for having me. I’m doing good. How are you?
[00:00:19] Detective Ev: I’m doing well. So, we have a special circumstance today. Normally, if you listen to the show regularly, you know, when we bring on FDN practitioners, we typically interview them for their story first. But because I posted something in one of our groups, Kim was willing to help me out here and jump right into a lab analysis podcast with me, which you guys have been loving. These are super fun.
Kim, we’ve actually done the HTMA before, but the video didn’t work at all. We didn’t even have the video of the person because they came on and recorded with a phone. We love you, Barbara. Your episode did great for audio, but we need someone that can come on and show these people this stuff on video, on our YouTube as well. We know that people want to hear this and see this, but they weren’t able to fully last time, so I think we’re going to have a good time.
Kim was even cooler. She brought on two different clients for us, two different patterns for the HTMA test, which is hair, tissue, mineral analysis, if you guys do not know. It is not one of the FDN core labs. We don’t teach this in the main course, but it is something that people really enjoy learning about right after graduating FDN.
Learning From HTMA Tests Gurus
We’re blessed to have Kendra Perry, who was not only an FDN, she also used to be the director of the professionals’ group for FDN. She went on to create, I would have to imagine, what is one of the more popular HTMA courses out there in the industry. She’s a total expert. She knows what she’s talking about.
We’re just lucky to have people like her and like you in this space that we can learn from, even if we’ve never used the test ourselves. I’m starting to use it more too. So, I’m excited about this and getting to hear from you today.
This time I’m going to share the entire screen cause I think that’s what might have screwed me up last time. I will get this started here. What we are looking at is an HTMA test by Trace Elements. Last time, even though we couldn’t see it, we were describing a different test by a different lab.
Just please know, most of them test fundamentally for the same thing. From my understanding, there’s some different markers on here, which Kim, I’m sure you can specify that for us when it’s relevant to do so. I’m actually not sure what the differences would be because I’ve always used the other one. But in terms of the core markers, we are looking at the same thing.
If we look at the top here, we see that we have an age 43, female. We don’t know anything else about her. So, can we hear, to the degree that you’re able to share these details, I understand that it’s overall private, but what was this woman going through when she came to you? Why did she want to do testing and Functional Diagnostic Nutrition type of stuff?
FDNs Do Not Treat Test Results Paperwork
[00:02:34] Kim Heintz: That’s a really good question. She was feeling very inflamed. She was fatigued, but she also felt very revved up. She was having a lot of trouble just kind of regulating her energy patterns throughout the day. She had recently explanted and felt like there was some correlation there with some of the symptoms that she was experiencing. She got really sick from her breast implants from having them for 17 years.
She wanted to run the HTMA so we could take a look at her mineral patterns to see if there were some ways to help support her nervous system to see if there were some heavy metals that may have been part of her breast implants and things like.
[00:03:11] Detective Ev: Okay. Thank you.
The reason this is relevant is because FDNs, out of everything else, the core thing that makes us different is we do not treat the paperwork. We don’t look at these markers and just automatically say, oh, this is high, or this is low. So, this is what this means. We want to know about the person and we’re clinically correlating the things that we see on the tests to the individual. So that’s something that we’ll reference probably multiple times as we go through these lab results together.
Now, the first section here, the nutritional elements, I’m recognizing this right away, even though I’ve never used this specific test. I’m seeing something very similar to what we see on the front page of the other one. We have the calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium. I would assume this is all the same regardless of what test you’re using. These are the Big Four over here, right? This is the core things that you’re looking at?
HTMA Tests: Metabolic Type Analysis
[00:03:55] Kim Heintz: Yeah. When I get an HTMA back from the lab, the first things I always look at are the first four minerals, which were just the ones you said calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium. I also take a look at the ratio between calcium and phosphorus. That actually tells us what kind of pattern somebody has.
If you see in the upper right-hand corner, it says FAST 1 of this test. That’s because her calcium/phosphorus ratio, meaning her calcium number of 31 divided by phosphorus is below 2.6. And that puts somebody into a fast oxidation state. Those are the first two things that I always take a look at.
Somebody who has a pattern like this client where she’s got the lower calcium and magnesium, and then she has the sodium and potassium being elevated and the midline is truly the midline right there on the test for each one of those minerals, that’s a classic fast oxidation pattern.
People who have a fast oxidation rate, as Evan just said, we want to correlate with the person. So, somebody who has a fast oxidation state, meaning that lower calcium/magnesium profile, the elevated sodium/potassium profile, and then that fast oxidation, calcium divided by phosphorus, they tend to be more anxious. They tend to be kind of Type A personalities. They feel wired and tired, irritable. They can have like a racing mind sometimes, deal with panic attacks, blood sugar issues, short tempered sometimes. And in longer term, especially because that calcium is low, they can deal with things like osteoporosis, osteoarthritis and things like that.
HTMA Tests: Does the Metabolic Type Shift?
[00:05:26] Detective Ev: One thing I’m curious about. The only other times that I’ve really heard the whole metabolic typing thing is of course with the Metabolic Typing Diet. That’s where I’ve heard it before. I’ve always been labeled a mixed oxidizer on that, which I believe. But what’s interesting is when I finally ran an HTMA, only about barely a year ago, maybe actually a little less, I came up as a slow oxidizer at the time.
Now I ran it because I felt as if I was kind of running myself into the ground. I was wondering if I was depleted. It’s not that I don’t know the health stuff, I knew what I was doing. But I love my work and sometimes it does catch up to me a little bit, right? I’m engaging with it a little too much. I was just wondering if I could course correct so that I could finish out the year strong.
The year for me is the school year, right? Once June comes around, this is golden. You know, I do some podcasting, but I can really take some time off and actually chill. But I’m like, how can I get through this? What can I do? And I was surprised to see the slow oxidizer thing. Because when you hear about slow oxidizers, I don’t really meet the stereotype of it. In fact, what you just described, with the exception of the osteoporosis and stuff, I would’ve met every single one of those symptoms as a kid.
So, when we’re talking about the metabolic type, at least from this test’s perspective, how does that shift throughout time? Can it shift? Is it supposed to shift?
HTMA Tests: Shifting Metabolic Type Back & Forth
[00:06:35] Kim Heintz: Yeah, it definitely does.
I was a slow oxidizer when I started running these labs on myself. And I would say like 70% to 80% of people tend to be slow oxidizers, especially adults, just because over time stress, things kind of slow down a little bit. But I’m now a fast oxidizer.
You are able to shift yourself from a slow oxidation state to a fast oxidation. People can be fast oxidizers and over time shift into slow oxidation. Kids tend to be, by default, they tend to be fast oxidizers. However, I have run these tests on kids and have found that some of them do tend to be more in the slow oxidation rate.
But yeah, you can bounce back and forth. The goal is to get as balanced as possible, right? So, you can kind of shift back and forth. It can really depend on how much you’re supporting your body, how much stress you’re dealing with, and things like that.
[00:07:25] Detective Ev: Okay. I think this is clear, but I should have specified it a little more in the beginning. I’m still an amateur on HTMA, never done any formal training. I’m learning from FDNs. I’ve ran them myself for fun, so I have plenty to learn.
When we are looking at sodium and potassium on the test, literally these things are high. Are these markers that there’s almost like an inverse relationship, that it actually means that it’s low or am I misunderstanding that?
HTMA Tests: Elevated Sodium and the Stress Piece
[00:07:47] Kim Heintz: It definitely can, and we can correlate with how somebody’s feeling and things like that.
Most of the time elevated sodium on this test does actually mean inflammation in the body. When we see somebody’s sodium marker elevated, they are dealing with lots of stress. It could be gut pathogens; it could be metals. And as you can see over there on the right-hand side in the pink section, she does have some elevated arsenic and mercury and some aluminum. But it could also be other gut infections.
When we see an elevated sodium marker, what we want to do is, one, we really want to help support the nervous system. And two, we want to see where the sources of inflammation are. She came to me feeling inflamed. So, seeing an elevated sodium marker on this test, definitely correlated with how she was feeling.
[00:08:35] Detective Ev: Okay. And for those on audio only, I should have said this as well. Her sodium, this client is as high as it can be, basically. It’s at the very, very upper end of the chart here. What is it that connects high sodium with inflammation? Why does that happen?
[00:08:50] Kim Heintz: It just drives it up. Sodium gets driven up by metals, stress, anger, things like that. It can elevate sodium in the body. But just basically indicates the stress response is greatly increased.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re taking in too much sodium. Sometimes we still want to like, make sure that they’re getting enough sodium into their diet. We don’t necessarily like to supplement with that, but making sure that they’re still getting some sodium, you know, putting Celtic Sea salt on their food and things like that.
HTMA Tests: First Four, Big Four, First Level Minerals
[00:09:17] Detective Ev: Cool. Now I always know those to be the Big Four. I just counted and it looks like there’s another 11 markers in this Nutritional Element section.
I’ve heard in the past and they specified to me that they were oversimplifying it because sometimes there is certain things that you would do about these markers. But generally speaking, if there are even somewhat within range, as from my understanding, it turns out if you get the other four, like the Big Four under control, the others should kind of level out themselves. Is that the case and understanding in this particular client’s results? Like, are you just kind of letting them go as they will, or do you have to do something specific for these?
And for those listening on audio I mean everything technically outta these other 11 markers is within the reference range. It’s just some are higher, some are lower. So, what do we do about that?
[00:10:02] Kim Heintz: Yeah, that’s a really good question. When we look at all of the minerals in this Nutritional Elements section, we prioritize them. The first four are first level minerals. Just like you said, getting those in balance, they’re the big levers that control everything else. So, if we can get those in balance, a lot of times we’ll see the second level minerals, which be things like copper, zinc, phosphorus, selenium, boron, lithium, we’ll see some of those start to balance out. Then same thing with the third level minerals, which are all the rest of them. They’re at a much lower amount.
HTMA Tests: Occasional Support for that Core Goal
Sometimes we do supplement with some of them. Minerals are a system. We don’t typically try to spot treat minerals because in order to absorb magnesium you need things like boron. That’s why we test boron. Even though boron is a second level mineral, I, a lot of times, will still include a little bit of elemental boron in a protocol because it’s going to help somebody boost their magnesium levels.
The core goal is to get those first four minerals in balance. But sometimes we need to have some support from some of the other minerals to make that happen.
[00:10:58] Detective Ev: Cool. The last question I have about this section then at this moment is these electrolyte supplements that we see on the market.
Listen, when I’ve used electrolyte supplements, generally speaking, they’ve worked very well. It’s so funny. When you get into this world, I’m sure you’ve experienced this in your own way. When you get into the world of the functional medicine thing, you could get so technical on like one end and then just miss something so fundamental.
I never used electrolytes as a supplement probably until like a year and a half ago. I was doing keto. I was doing all these things and never thought of the benefit of that. It’s like, go figure. I have seen a lot of benefit from it. But I’m thinking about this already, especially when you talk about this synergistic kind of relationship that these minerals will have with one another.
Utilize HTMA Tests to “Test Not Guess”
Then I know that a lot of these electrolyte supplements on the market, they’re straight up one size fits all. I’m not going to mention any brands because I’m not saying that the particular brand is bad per se. But there’s certain popular ones out there that have like a thousand milligrams almost of salt, and then relatively low potassium and magnesium. It doesn’t account for these other things.
What is your take on that? Should people be using those supplements, or would they just be better off running an HTMA and then getting what is more or less a specialized electrolyte supplement? Or do you think those have application?
[00:12:09] Kim Heintz: I think they do have applications. I’m an athlete and I do use electrolyte supplements, especially either before workout, after workout, even during a workout. I’ll find some great benefit from using electrolytes because we’re burning up our minerals when we’re putting our body under a stress like that. I do see value in them.
But you know, the configuration that you just shared, which had like sodium, potassium, and magnesium, yeah, that’s great. I think it can be helpful as a boost or what have you, but it’s not going to solve the problem. Again, FDNs, we’re of the mindset that you want to “test not guess”.
So, I do think everybody should run the HTMA. Just, minerals are so responsive to stress. If somebody’s dealing with things like energy issues, sleep issues, all sorts of thyroid issues their minerals are involved in every system of the body. They make the body work better.
HTMA Tests: Toxic Elements
I like to think of them as like the spark plugs of the body. Or sometimes I even talk about they’re like the lubricant that makes the machine run better. So, finding out what your unique patterns are is going to be your best bet because you’re not just trying to guess or trying something and helping that it works.
Just like we talked about, making sure that we’ve got all the key players in place to make sure your unique mineral patterns are being supported the way that they can is going to be your best bet.
[00:13:22] Detective Ev: Thank you.
Next section here on the right is going to be Toxic Elements. It looks like our standard metals here. For those on audio, we have arsenic just above the reference range. Mercury, fair enough over the reference range. And then aluminum within the reference range.
But I also know that some would argue that we really don’t want to see certain metals. How do you interpret a section like this when you see these specific results, Kim?
[00:13:42] Kim Heintz: That’s a great question. Even though we see this reference range on this lab, if we see metals being pushed out through the hair, cause this is a test that you take a hair sample, that’s indicative that there’s definitely some movement of metals or even some common or recent exposure to these metals.
So, especially with arsenic being raised like that and Mercury being raised like that, to me, that would say that this person did have a recent exposure to arsenic and mercury or is still being exposed to them on a regular basis.
Reduce Exposures & Change Out Toxic Products
It turned out she was eating a ton of sushi several times a week. As far as the arsenic is concerned, we thought that maybe that came from her breast implants or things like that. She had just had that explant surgery maybe within a year prior to us doing this test.
So, even though when we see some aluminum like that, a lot of us get exposed to aluminum through our cookware, deodorant has aluminum in it and things like that. In that case, even though there’s just a little amount, we’re still seeing some movement in the body, and it can cause problems even in small amounts.
Reducing exposures to it, changing out the products that we use and things like that is usually a first step. The second step is really to balance those minerals. Balancing minerals, those first four macro minerals, is the key to literally everything. Cause a lot of times it’ll help gently pull some of those out.
[00:15:00] Detective Ev: Yeah. I feel like if the cells are getting the things that they need to work better, you would imagine that they’d push this kind of stuff out.
It’s amazing how many people don’t look at this either or don’t even consider it that bad. There was a woman that I worked with, I’m technically still working with her personally, she came to me like, really dedicated person. I mean, almost threw me off with how much stuff she had already done, considering how she felt.
I’m like, all right, this is kind of weird. I know we gotta be missing something here, but you gotta dig kind of deep to find it in those clients. Eventually, we come across this. I’m like, has anyone run any labs with you?
High Toxic Levels Needs Support
She said, yeah, I’ve had this hair, tissue, mineral analysis thing done. I’m like, all right, cool. So, she sends me that one.
You know where that sodium is on the left side here, where it’s like literally higher than the top end, that’s where her Mercury was on the other HTMA test. I said, well, what did they do for you? She said, oh, well I just had to stop eating like fish and this would detox itself over time.
I was like, oh my God. Because this was like a year ago before we ran the test again. And I’m not even saying that’s not literally correct because she was in Costa Rica at the time. She was eating high amounts of seafood right off the pier, basically, from where they were fishing. I’m not saying that’s incorrect. But the idea that we’re not going to support this person in any additional way while they are clearly symptomatic when their mercury is that high, was just asinine to me.
So I said, how about, let’s do this. You run the test again. Cause I know it’s been a year. I know that you don’t want to run it right away again, but I just want to see it. If the mercury’s not high, I’ll pay for your test. And if it was high, then you just say, good idea and we do the supplement stuff together. She said, all right, fine.
We run the test and sure enough, was it down lower than last year? Yeah, it was. It was still the highest mercury I’ve ever seen other than her original one on this test. This stuff doesn’t just magically go away, right? We need to put in a deliberate effort to getting this stuff out.
Balance, Then Detox
In addition to balancing the Big Four, which is going to help this, what are some other things that we might recommend to someone who’s dealing with higher levels of mercury, arsenic, or whatever?
[00:16:54] Kim Heintz: Yeah, there’s specific protocols that we do. Depending on the metal, there’s certain minerals that are really helpful to kind of like have an antagonist relationship to help slowly, gently pull that out.
We’ll also do binders. Zeolite spray can be very helpful, but you have to make sure that you’re balancing the minerals first. I see a lot of people just going straight to heavy metal detoxes or using Zeolite without balancing their minerals, and that can cause other types of problems and make somebody feel worse.
Those are usually the starting points from that. Then once somebody’s minerals are a little bit more balanced, meaning that their body can handle more of an aggressive, if you will, detox of a metal, then we can do specific protocols for that metal, especially if it’s still hanging in the tissues like this and it needs a little bit of extra support to get that out.
[00:17:39] Detective Ev: Cool. I don’t know if this applies directly on the HTMA, but I’ve heard that the lower the mercury, not always, I think it’s like more of like a middle ground thing, it could actually be harder to get some of these metals out when they are lower because the body won’t recognize it as easily as when it’s super high.
First of all, do you know what I’m talking about? And assuming that you do, is that relevant on the HTMA? Is it harder to get those last levels out than a higher level?
Moving the Non-Embedded, Elevated Toxic Elements Around
[00:18:01] Kim Heintz: I don’t know if it’s necessarily harder. It’s just, if your minerals are out of balance, it’s going to be harder, and we don’t actually want to do a whole lot with trying to move those metals out of the body at that time.
You know, when you see it elevated like this on the test, it usually means that your body is moving the metals around and they’re not just like embedded in the tissues. So, when you have more freedom in your mineral system because it’s working properly, then you should actually see those elevated and it is easier to go after.
When they’re low, yeah. And especially when you’ve got such imbalances in the macro mineral system like we see with this client. You don’t really want to do a whole lot of aggressive work on the metals on this time. Down the road, definitely. But first priority is always balancing those minerals.
[00:18:44] Detective Ev: Very interesting. Well, we’ll move on to the next section in a second.
I actually realized; I apologize. I should have asked you this question probably in the beginning. Why did you end up using this lab in your practice? There’s, of course, nothing wrong with this. We get a bunch of additional labs that we get access to once we graduate FDN. But it’s clearly not one of the core ones taught.
Someone has to really go out of their way to use this and learn this. Must have been for a good reason. So, what motivates you or what have you seen that you started using this in your practice?
Reasons Kim Loves HTMA Tests
[00:19:12] Kim Heintz: I think there’s two core reasons why. First, my own experience. I suspected I had copper toxicity. Cause I had 12 years of birth control, hormonal birth control use, and three years of a copper IUD. I was dealing with a lot of copper toxic symptoms.
I’d done the FDN approach. I felt pretty darn good, but I still was dealing with some symptoms of copper toxicity. So I decided to run this test and sure enough, I had copper toxicity. It was like that missing piece of the puzzle for me in my own healing journey.
It’s what took me like finally to the finish line as far as like how I felt. I love this test for that reason. I’m pretty passionate about copper toxicity because of my own experience with it. I work with a lot of women who do experience that or have symptoms of it. So, I have found it to be super helpful in my own practice with regards to that. And it’s the most cost-effective functional lab that we have access to.
[00:20:00] Detective Ev: Yeah. I will say that.
That’s one thing that intrigued me is I’m hearing these stories and I’m hearing how effective it can be. Just running this alone sometimes, I’m like, this is cheap. This is really cool if I can help get the needle moving for people.
I will say this, I mean, I’ve been in this space for a very long time. Grant you, yes, I was burning the candle kind of at both ends when I ran this test. But I will say that supplement helped me a lot, like the protocol for this.
Supplementing A Busy, Stressful Lifestyle
And I say supplement, not that we only do that as FDNs. I mean, I already had everything else dialed in and I wasn’t going to back off the work. I just, I didn’t want to do that personally.
So, there’s only so many things you can do at that point. If the sleep is on par, the diet’s good, everything like that, I needed to supplement this lifestyle then. And it made a difference, it really, really does. It’s very cool. It definitely helps in physical exercise as well.
[00:20:45] Kim Heintz: Oh, yeah. As an athlete, it’s been instrumental for me. I saw my performance just totally take it to the next level because I supported my own system.
So, you were burning the candle at both ends and feeling that stress and that pressure, supporting your minerals is going to help you do that successfully and not feel too burned out.
[00:21:03] Detective Ev: Absolutely.
All right. Moving down to our next section here, the Additional Elements. How do you look at something like this? This is something I’m very ignorant to, this whole section. Do we do anything with this? Do you kind of just ignore it or is it case by case?
[00:21:15] Kim Heintz: It’s case by case. In this case, two of them are, in my opinion, are more like nutritional elements.
Rubidium, which is the most elevated on that section, and then lithium, which is right next to it. Rubidium is very helpful for helping a person get the adequate levels of potassium in. This person’s rubidium and potassium were elevated, so we don’t really have to worry too much about that.
HTMA Tests: Additional Elements
But in the other profile that we’re going to take a look at, you’ll see that both of them are very low. We would want to support both of those cause rubidium and potassium go up and down together. I always look at that.
And then lithium can be very helpful for mood related things. Sometimes we’ll do like a very, you know, five milligrams of lithium orate to help if somebody’s lithium levels are low. Can be helpful for detoxification as well. So sometimes depending on, again, looking at the symptom profile of a client, we may do some support with lithium. I always look at those in relation to the Nutritional Elements that we looked at initially.
[00:22:12] Detective Ev: Very cool.
I saw someone where they suffer with what they’re told is bipolar. I say that not because I don’t believe in bipolar, I just don’t know if I believe it for them, but that’s beside the point. They’ve been given, of course, high amounts of lithium throughout the years because of this. It’s an older client.
So, it’s still used, right? But it was just handed out at one point, like this was the go-to for it. It was just again, like where that sodium was for this woman here, it was just off the charts. I’m like, wow, that seems like they’re getting a little too much if it’s that high but could be wrong. Who knows?
All right. We’ll do this first. We’ll do Significant Ratios first. What does this mean? Do you even need this when you know the other things? Or do the ratios have a unique educational purpose for you as the practitioner?
HTMA Tests: Significant Ratios
[00:22:54] Kim Heintz: Ratios are probably just as important or more important than the individual minerals themselves because they tell us unique things about a person’s different systems.
You know, I talked about the calcium/phosphorus ratio, which is the first one that you see there. That tells us our metabolic rate – fast oxidation, slow oxidation, et cetera. Again, if you’re below the midline there, then you’re going to be considered a fast oxidizer. If you’re above it, and I’ve seen it up as high as 12, even higher before, 20 for somebody’s calcium/phosphorous ratio. The higher the number, the slower your metabolism, essentially. That’s something that we always want to take a look at.
The other ratios are also important. The next one there that you’re seeing on the screen is your sodium/potassium ratio, we want to see those two how they’re in relation to each other. That’s our stress/vitality ratio. We consider it one of the most important ratios for somebody.
When somebody’s high, they might be dealing with metals, stress, inflammation. They feel irritable, angry, snappy feelings, high stress feelings. Then when it’s really low, they feel completely exhausted, run down, fatigue, chronically stressed, poor immune system, digestion issues and things like that.
We always want to take a look at that and correlate with the person as well cause the ratio in between these minerals is also just as important.
[00:24:16] Detective Ev: Okay.
[00:24:17] Kim Heintz: A couple other ones there, calcium/potassium ratio, that’s our thyroid ratio. There’s a statistic that like somewhere around one in eight people deals with a thyroid issue at some point in their life, whether or not they know it.
HTMA Tests: Analyzing Thyroid Ratio & Adrenal Ratio
Looking at the thyroid ratio can be very helpful because, like in this person’s case, she had like lower calcium. But a lot of times I see in the slow oxidation rate, like their calcium is super elevated and it’s almost blocking nutrients from getting into the cells. So, blocking thyroid hormone glucose and nutrients and things like that.
Always taking a look at the thyroid ratio is very important to be able to support the body properly.
[00:24:53] Detective Ev: What about the sodium/magnesium one? I feel like that’s probably important.
[00:24:57] Kim Heintz: That’s another really important one. That’s our adrenal ratio. I always like to look at that as well.
When somebody has a high sodium/magnesium ratio, like we see in this particular example, a lot of times, we’re dealing with elevated inflammation in the body. But they also might have that wired and tired feeling because they’ve got excessive adrenal. They tend to have like magnesium deficiency. That’s pretty common in this particular ratio when it’s elevated.
Now when it’s low, somebody’s dealing with chronic stress, exhaustion, decreased adrenal effect. They’re just feeling super tired. Having a hard time getting out of bed in the morning, feeling run down and exhausted all day long.
A lot of times when the sodium/magnesium ratio is low, we want to make sure we’re first supporting sodium. A lot of times people make themselves feel worse because they keep hearing magnesium, magnesium, magnesium. But they also need sodium to help support those adrenals cause the sodium really nourishes the adrenals.
Ratios Help Prioritize What Needs to Get in First
Looking at that, sometimes it helps us prioritize what do we need to get in first.
A lot of times with somebody with a low sodium/magnesium ratio, I might be like, okay, start your morning with a glass of water with a pinch of sea salt in it maybe with a little bit of lemon and really start to get their sodium levels restored. Then we can start to layer in magnesium down the road.
[00:26:12] Detective Ev: That’s such a good point.
I mean, how often, everywhere the magnesium thing is pushed? I do hear people talking about taking some salt, but it’s niche. It’s in our world of functional medicine. Whereas the magnesium thing is pushed to every single person I know, even if they don’t know anything about health.
I can’t tell you how many people I know take that supplement, even though they’re maybe like a family member that doesn’t care about this at all. Right? They drink beer every night and yet they’ll take magnesium because they’ve been told to. Very interesting.
Is this the next section here that you were talking about has unique markers? Cause I feel like when I’ve looked at these other tests, I don’t recognize this Toxic Ratios thing unless I’m just really that new that I don’t know it.
[00:26:46] Kim Heintz: This isn’t on the other test that you’re familiar with. But really what this shows us is just the interference of metals with some of our core minerals. The goal is we want the bars in this section to be all the way at the top.
So, for her, we’re showing that we have a significant interference of metals in her mineral profile. You see the first one that’s lower is iron and lead.
HTMA Tests: Toxic Ratios
Iron might be getting interfered with, because of lead.
A lot of them are being interfered with because of mercury. Iron, selenium, zinc, and sulfur are all showing some interference because of that. Again, it just really stresses the fact that we need to remove exposures and we need to really support that mineral system so that we can get these markers up.
This is the first test I ran with this client, and I am happy to say that on her third test, which is the most recent one we ran a couple months ago, we were able to get those toxic ratios all the way back to the top. So, we did do some great improvements with her.
[00:27:42] Detective Ev: Awesome!
Man, I’m going to have to go back to eighth grade science class too. My periodic table, you know what I mean. I was good. Listen, I could do the potassium thing, like I remember, K. I knew they tried to screw you up with that when you were in school. But yeah, some of these are getting me a little bit, so I will have to review some of those.
Are these Additional Ratios, the unique markers on this test? I guess I’m still kind of confused which ones were unique that makes you run this test over the other one.
[00:28:03] Kim Heintz: There’s more metals that are tested. There are more nutritional elements that are tested. For example, like boron is not run by Analytical Research, and that’s the other lab. Knowing the status of boron is very helpful because it tells us if we need to support that in order to get the magnesium levels up, stuff like that. That’s why I like to run this test.
HTMA Tests: Additional Ratios
[00:28:22] Detective Ev: Cool. Do you look at this Additional Ratios section, which is at the very bottom or no?
[00:28:27] Kim Heintz: Sometimes I do, but there’s not a whole lot of explanation with regards to that.
[00:28:31] Detective Ev: Okay. All right. Well thank you very much. And I’m so glad to know that this person is starting to feel better. That’s what it takes. I noticed that you said that was a few months ago and this original test was ran on May 11th, 2021. I think this matters.
FDN works. What we do works, right. But this can take some time. And I’m sure there’s many things that come up with a particular client throughout a year plus of working with them. But you know, trust the process.
This person is 43 years old, right? Your body, you have to remember, unfortunately, after your late twenties, early thirties, the body, even if everything was being done perfectly, it is degrading, not increasing, right? We’re fighting against time here a little bit too. That needs to be noted.
But you can heal, you can get better. You just gotta give the body some time. That’s amazing to know that things are getting better for her. I’m very happy about that.
For time’s sake, we can skip a lot of the formalities on this one. That’s good because we kind of went over some basic stuff. Let’s get right into this one. We have a slow oxidizer pattern, 39-year-old female. Similar enough age. And this was run in April of 2022.
HTMA Tests: High Calcium/Calcium Shell
Right from the get-go, for those on audio, we’re seeing a completely different thing on the first part in the nutritional element. So, thank you so much, Kim, for bringing on something, again, wildly different than the other one. We have super high calcium, middle range magnesium, and then low sodium, low potassium. This is a slow oxidizer pattern as it says, correct?
[00:29:49] Detective Ev: Is this what they call the calcium shell with it being so high?
[00:29:52] Kim Heintz: Exactly. You’re on it.
Yeah, anything above like 165 on the calcium. Calcium, we want to be around 63. This person’s calcium is 259 for those of you who are on audio. That’s pretty significant. We’ve got this calcium that is building up in the tissues.
If you think of calcium, calcium is a hard substance, right? You think about like the calcification on a water fountain or something, that’s hard and you gotta scrub really hard to get that off. I mean, that’s essentially happening inside the tissues.
What that also means is that it’s not getting into the bone. We do see when somebody’s got an elevated calcium profile like this that they could deal, longer term, like osteoporosis, osteopenia and things like that as well. Cause again, calcium’s just not getting to where it needs to be.
[00:30:39] Detective Ev: With this calcium shell thing, I mean obviously it just seems like it’s super high calcium. I know everyone’s different, but is there a typical symptom profile that one might expect to see with someone who has this with the calcium shell?
Symptom Profile of Someone with a Calcium Shell
[00:30:51] Kim Heintz: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of times we’ll see like hypothyroid symptoms. We’ll see irritability. Fatigue is huge because again, if you think about what I talked about earlier with the thyroid ratio where calcium’s kind of blocking nutrients from getting inside the cell. The way that I visually like to explain it is like, it’s almost like the cell is starving because calcium’s blocking those nutrients to get inside that cell, right?
So, you might deal with things like brain fog, racing thoughts. Sometimes you deal with like kidney stones. Joint and muscle pain is pretty common for people. Feeling disconnected, apathetic, anger, those actually all can be symptoms of a calcium shell.
[00:31:28] Detective Ev: Wow. I always hear people talking about, with ketosis and fasting and stuff and even certain other things where if you don’t supplement the electrolytes or you’re dehydrated all the time, it can lead to the kidney stones. Is that correlated at all here or is that a completely separate causal thing for kidney stones?
[00:31:45] Kim Heintz: I think there’s a couple different kind. I’m not a hundred percent sure and I haven’t really worked with a lot of people with that, so it’s hard for me to answer that specifically.
[00:31:52] Detective Ev: No problem at all. I was just kind of curious. I like trying to connect these things if I can.
We see kind of, in my opinion, correct me if I’m wrong, please, but a conceptually similar thing in the other Nutritional Elements on this thing outside of the Big Four, whereas like, all right, yes, some are high, some are low.
HTMA Tests: Supporting Selenium and Molybdenum
I mean, they’re basically within the reference range. And we would probably expect these to become a little more regulated as we did the Big Four.
I am noticing that the boron seems to be a little higher on this one, a little upper end of the reference range, but it is still within it. So, is this one of those cases where we’re looking at these other nutritional elements and saying, all right, cool, what we need to do here really is just focus on the Big Four, or is there something that you would’ve done or did do for this person and these other ones?
[00:32:29] Kim Heintz: Yeah, we definitely want to make sure we’re supporting the Big Four a lot. I mean, you see that potassium, it’s super low. Low potassium, a lot of people deal with like heart palpitations, exercise intolerance and things like that when we see sodium that low. Same thing with sodium and potassium, that low.
You see her selenium is pretty low as well. I talked about how we see a lot of stuff with like, hypothyroid, hypothyroid symptoms when we see a calcium shell. Seeing that selenium low isn’t surprising since selenium is helpful for thyroid. We do want to support selenium in this case because it is low.
I probably would’ve supported, I think I supported Molybdenum a little bit too, since her Molybdenum was a little bit low. I’m looking at how do we kind of support the whole system as a whole with regards to that.
[00:33:10] Detective Ev: All right. Now this is interesting over here, moving to the Toxic Elements on this one. Again, I’m not an expert in HTMA.
Balancing Minerals Energetically Increases Ability of the Cells
I’ve looked at a good handful of them, though. Some, of course, you see the metals are not terrible, but they’re there. I mean, she’s practically non-existent and I’m kind of surprised by that cause I feel like we’re all exposed to it.
Her Big Four clearly indicates that she is someone who is not doing so great right now, overall. Does this happen often, that these people don’t show up for any metals? How would someone even escape that in today’s world?
[00:33:40] Kim Heintz: Yeah, and it doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have any metals. It just means that her body is not moving the metals out of the body.
[00:33:46] Detective Ev: Oh wait. I got a gold star for this hopefully. Is the reason that they’re not moving it outta the body because she is in a slow oxidizing state right now, so it’s kind of holding onto the stuff?
Kim Heintz: Yes, exactly.
Detective Ev: All right, nice. I’ll take my gold star, please.
Kim Heintz: You got it.
Detective Ev: All right. So, we have no idea how toxic she is really.
[00:34:01] Kim Heintz: Right, exactly.
In this case, there’s not like a whole lot for us to do as far as removing exposures. I mean, there’s a little bit of movement. You do see just a smidge of a line with aluminum and mercury and uranium.
But our real primary goal here is to help break up that calcium and get the sodium and the potassium up so we can get more in a balanced state. And a lot of times on a retest, we will actually see more movement of metals in the body because we’ve energetically increased the ability of the cells.
Sometimes Toxic Elements Go Up, Sometimes They Go Down
[00:34:31] Detective Ev: That is a perfect example of what we do at FDN, right?
Because if you just looked at these as individual tests, the untrained eye would easily say, well, you have metals. That’s terrible. Right? Where we know if you’re working with the client, if you’re actually addressing the person and not just treating paperwork, that’s progress in her case to be getting some of these metals moving.
I know that we don’t know where it would be, but just so I understand this fully, it is fair to say that if we adjusted the Big Four, if we could wave a magic wand and all of a sudden, they were good to go, it is fair to say that the uranium, mercury and aluminum, which we do see borderline, at the very least, those are going up, probably, right?
[00:35:09] Kim Heintz: Possibly, yeah. It really depends on the person.
Sometimes I do see them move up. Sometimes I actually see them get cut down even more. It just kind of depends on sometimes balancing those minerals was the key to moving out any of the metals that we were seeing.
[00:35:24] Detective Ev: Very cool.
I don’t know if that ended up being the case for her. This was in April. Do you remember what happened next?
[00:35:29] Kim Heintz: We have not yet retested. That’s coming up here pretty soon, so TBD.
[00:35:33] Detective Ev: All right. No worries.
Next is the Additional Element section again. I could be wrong. Sorry, there’s a lot of markers here. I almost feel like this looks similar to the other one or am I off?
Comparing HTMA Tests Results
[00:35:41] Kim Heintz: It looks pretty similar. We see a little bit of barium; we see some strontium. Usually, we do see strontium elevated when calcium’s high. That’s typically, especially on a first test, that’s what we see.
Barium, there is a little bit of barium, so again, that would be similar to what we saw in the other test. You just want to cut back exposure to anything where you might be getting some barium into your world.
[00:36:01] Detective Ev: Got it. I forgot it was the rubidium that was high. I think what it was is that there was basically one outstanding thing on each side, and that’s what I’m confusing it with.
All right, cool. We see in her ratios; I feel like definitely looks kind of similar even though it’s a slow oxidizer though.
[00:36:17] Kim Heintz: Yeah. I mean, we’re definitely seeing the calcium/phosphorus ratio elevated. Before, I think it was like a one point something, and on this one it’s 14.39.
Really quite a slow oxidation rate because again, the calcium’s so high. The sodium/magnesium ratio was super elevated on the last test. I think it was in the sixes, and now we’re at a 0.7, so that really correlates with that person. That person, the sodium/magnesium, this person would definitely benefit from prioritizing sodium over magnesium initially. And then we can layer in that magnesium.
[00:36:46] Detective Ev: Got it. Last but not least here, her Toxic Ratio thing, we wanted them to be at the top of the chart as you taught me. They’re perfect. But is this one of those cases where it’s almost like a non-clue because we know that that metals thing is not necessarily accurate? Or would you still say that this has some validity?
Invitation for Retests & Kim’s Story
[00:37:02] Kim Heintz: I mean, there’s not much to do with it in this case, just this first test around. I mean, really the primary goals of this particular test are to balance those minerals and break up that calcium shell.
I think there was enough there for us to get started with. Then let’s take a look at the Toxic Ratios on a retest.
[00:37:20] Detective Ev: Very cool. Well, we’ll be excited to hear about that retest. If you’d like, please, we have a lot of people that listen regularly. We can kind of see that in the stats.
If you remember, if you want to, you’re more than welcome to email me and just say, hey, this is how things are going. I’d be happy to have you pop back in. Because we haven’t really gotten your story yet, Kim.
It would be kind of cool if we ended up doing another episode where maybe there’s some insight to be gained by learning about that retest, then we could actually hear your story as well and just kind of spend a little bit of time on the retest. So, up to you. I hope to hear from you with that.
Now, with this all said as we kind of reach the end of our time, the last question about the test is, I’m hearing from some FDNs, and it’s less than not. But some of these people are just running this test to start off, they’re not running the FDN foundationals. I don’t know. I haven’t done this yet. I would have to imagine that’s not optimal, but I get why they do it. It’s cheaper. I understand this.
HTMA Tests Supplements & D.R.E.S.S.
When you are running these tests, of course we have the ability to supplement. If the person changed nothing but just supplemented, I assume they’d be better off than not. But how much of these numbers really moving, like this stuff really getting in the right direction, how much of it is based on the lifestyle stuff versus these specific protocols and supplements that can come from the test results?
[00:38:33] Kim Heintz: It’s definitely important to do both because minerals are very responsive to stress. So, if you’re super stressed out and you’re not changing your diet and you’re still eating a lot of processed foods, which our food is where we get our minerals from, and stuff like that, you may not see a lot of movement.
I have done retests where somebody was just like, well, I’m just going to do the supplements and I’m not going to worry about anything else cause I just don’t have time for it. Their retest really didn’t show a ton of change. That’s when we have to have that conversation. Like, hey, at least you didn’t get more depleted. Right?
The supplements probably did help with regards to that. But if you want to get to your goals, really focusing on the D.R.E.S.S. model that we talk about here in FDN, diet, rest, exercise, supplementation, and stress reduction; that’s going to help you move the needle. That’s where I see the biggest results.
Even if this is the only test somebody runs, we can see a lot of movement and get some progress if somebody does commit to doing all of the lifestyle strategies, diet, et cetera, too.
Where to Find Kim Heintz
[00:39:31] Detective Ev: Very cool. All right, well I think that’ll just about do it for today.
Of course, I’m going to ask where people can find you. Before we even do that, I think the one question I’ll ask is like, who do you work with? Now, I only have two lab results here, but based on the fact that they’re 39- and 43-year-old females, I’m guessing, is it like that earlier middle-aged woman that you typically help? What type of person typically comes to you?
[00:39:51] Kim Heintz: Most of my clients are women between 30 and 50. I do work with men too. I just primarily have women coming to me. I think just maybe cause that’s who I am. But I work with people who are more, I’m 41, so it’s in the same general age range as myself.
I work with a lot of people who are dealing with gut issues, migraines. I had chronic migraines for 25 years, and so I get a lot of folks who experience chronic migraines themselves. Then also copper toxicity since it’s something that is pretty near and dear to my own personal experience as well.
[00:40:24] Detective Ev: All right. Where can people find you if they’d like to work with you and have their HTMA or other things analyzed?
[00:40:29] Kim Heintz: A good way to get a hold of me or find me is on Instagram. I’m really active there and it’s just my first name dot last name. So, Kim.Heintz is my IG handle.
[00:40:51] Detective Ev: Well, thank you so much for coming on with us today. I appreciated this and I love learning about these new tests by my fellow FDNs, so thank you.
[00:40:57] Kim Heintz: Yeah, it was fun geeking out with you over here today. I love the HTMA, so thanks for having me.
If you’ve ever experienced a burning sensation in your chest after you eat, you’re certainly not alone. Acid reflux, or gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), is a worldwide problem. In North America alone, anywhere from 18.1 – 27.8% of the population experiences acid reflux every week. That’s nearly a third of us who have this constant, chronic problem. The good news is that there are plenty of foods that can help with acid reflux and today, we want to share some of the best foods for acid reflux!
What is Acid Reflux?
Our stomachs begin to churn our food and secrete enzymes that break down proteins. The stomach is very acidic because it needs to be to do its job. When we have acid reflux, some of the contents in our stomachs splash up into the esophagus. Since the esophagus is more delicate tissue and doesn’t have the strong lining our stomachs do, we experience pain and discomfort.
Many people commonly think that acid reflux is caused by too much stomach acid. Often, it’s the opposite. Our digestive process is a cascade, beginning in the mouth (sometimes before food even reaches our mouths!) and ending with pooping. Between the stomach and the esophagus, there is a sphincter that opens when the stomach is ready (meaning it’s acidic enough) to receive food. When there isn’t enough stomach acid, that sphincter may become weak, allowing food to splash up.
Also, undigested food fermenting in the stomach may cause bloating and gas, which puts pressure on the sphincter so we can burp – another opportunity for stomach acid to ‘burn’ the esophagus.
This delicious dark leafy green has natural antacid properties and is also an amazing source of B vitamins, which contribute to the enzymes that aid with digestion.
This beneficial fat is anti-microbial and antibacterial – this can help prevent infections in the digestive tract. It’s also very soothing to the gut and can help nourish the nervous system.
Apple Cider Vinegar
This can help you naturally boost your production of stomach acid. Apple cider vinegar is more of a ‘home remedy’ for indigestion. There is limited scientific evidence about its benefits for acid reflux (though there is some research that shows it can help with symptom relief when combined with deglycyrrhizinated licorice). If you have moderate to severe reflux, this could be a remedy you choose to skip.
Start off with 1 teaspoon diluted with a half cup of water before meals and adjust the vinegar or water if needed. And if that doesn’t work, there are 19 other ways you can use it!
More Diet and lifestyle Tips to Help With Acid Reflux
Other tips that might help improve acid reflux symptoms include:
Not eating close to bedtime so your body has time to digest before lying down.
Plain old water can also help with acid reflux symptoms – one study revealed that drinking a glass of water works more quickly and effectively than acid-blocking drugs.
Ensure that you chew your food well – remember your digestive tract doesn’t have teeth.
Evidence indicates that low carbohydrate ad low glycemic diets can aid with heartburn.
Foods that contain fibre help you stay full for longer, which may reduce overeating and subsequent reflux symptoms.
By incorporating some of these foods for acid reflux, we hope that you are able to experience some relief and deliciousness at the same time!
What happened when a 5 percent tea tree oil gel was pitted head-to-head against the leading over-the-counter treatment for pimples?
“Acne vulgaris remains one of the commonest diseases to afflict humanity.” As I discuss in my video Benzoyl Peroxide vs. Tea Tree Oil for Acne, according to some online surveys, tea tree oil appears to be “the second most commonly used topical treatment” for acne after benzoyl peroxide. “Crowdsourcing” may be “a novel research method for evaluation of acne treatments,” but before getting too enamored with popular wisdom, you should know information on facial application of “urine as a home remedy for acne” is also circulating on the internet.
“Urine therapy advocates cite historical use as proof of its therapeutic potential claiming urine not only as a treatment for numerous skin conditions, but also as a ‘free cure’ for many systemic diseases,” apparently forgetting all of the horrific skeletons crowding the closets of medical history. “While recycling what the body intentionally removes may seem counterintuitive to good health,” what about Premarin? (They’re talking about the hormone therapy drug made from PREgnant MARe’s urINe.) The best argument for putting pee on your face appears to be that some women swallow pills made from pregnant horse pee. I’m not exactly following the logic there.
Of course, there are drugs for acne. There are always drugs, as you can see at 1:18 in my video. Though, with drugs come side effects. Antibiotics that suppress the bacteria that cause acne “are the standard treatment…but are becoming less effective probably because of the emergence of antibiotic-resistant strains.” The prevalence of resistant strains has grown rapidly, such that antibiotics for acne are no longer recommended on their own as “mono-therapy” and re-evaluations are advised every six to eight weeks.
Bacteria do seem to be susceptible to tea tree oil in a petri dish, however, but many of these kinds of studies were performed with free-floating bacteria, whereas, in pimples, the bacteria form what’s called a biofilm, which generally makes them more difficult to eradicate. The bacteria form like a “biological glue” that plugs up the follicle, so petri dish studies can only tell you so much.
But, even if tea tree oil couldn’t kill off the bacteria, it has been shown to suppress skin inflammation. Indeed, if you inflame people’s skin with an allergen and then try to calm it down, tea tree oil does a decent job compared to an over-the-counter ointment or a moderate-potency prescription steroid cream. So, potentially, tea tree oil could help with acne either via an antibacterial mechanism or from an anti-inflammatory standpoint. You don’t know…until you put it to the test.
As you can see at 2:38 in my video, a 20 percent tea tree oil gel was applied twice a day in a study, and researchers saw a beautiful drop in acne lesions after one, two, and three months. About 24 pimples at the start of the study down to about 11. The researchers concluded that tea tree oil could “significantly improve mild to moderate acne and that the products were well tolerated,” but the study had fatal flaw. Did you guess? There was no control group.
How do we know the subjects wouldn’t have healed even faster without the tea tree oil? In a systematic review of randomized, clinical trials on tea tree oil, the “most striking finding” is that researchers could hardly find any randomized clinical trials on tea tree oil. Given “the widespread use” of tea tree oil, “this is both disappointing and important to note.”
Researchers finally conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of a 5 percent topical tea tree oil gel in mild to moderate acne. As you can see at 3:27 in my video, after six weeks, the tea tree oil group experienced a 40 percent drop in whiteheads and blackheads, a 40 percent drop in red and tender acne bumps, and a 47 percent drop in pus-filled pimples, compared to comparatively little change in the control group. Overall, in terms of total lesion count, the tea tree oil gel was three and a half times more effective than placebo—that is, three and a half times more effective than essentially doing nothing. But, most teens don’t do nothing for their pimples. How does tea tree oil compare to benzoyl peroxide, the gold standard?
By far, benzoyl peroxide is the most popular over-the-counter acne therapy—despite its side effects. It can be irritating, causing “erythema [redness], dryness, peeling, stinging, or burning.” However, the prescription option—the long-term use of topical or oral antibiotics—is discouraged due to the development and spread of antibiotic resistance. As a result, attention has turned to “non-antibiotic products such as tea tree oil.”
Compared to tea tree oil, benzoyl peroxide did cause more side effects, including “dryness, pruritus [itching], stinging, burning, and redness”—but it also worked better, cutting the number of inflamed pimples by two-thirds within three months versus only by half in the tea tree oil group, as you can see at 4:33 in my video. The most recent study found them to be more comparable, though.
Putting all of the studies together, tea tree oil products were not only found to outdo placebo, but they approximate more standard regimens, like benzoyl peroxide or topical antibiotics, suggesting tea tree oil products may be “an appropriate option for treating mild-to-moderate acne.”
This week’s article was doing the rounds on Twitter in the middle of December. It was called “COVID Vaccine Hesitancy and Risk of a Traffic Crash” and it was by Redelmeier et al (Ref 1). It captured the attention of a few news sites. One headline was “COVID Vaccine Refusers Have 72 Percent Higher Risk of a Serious Traffic Crash, Study Shows” (Ref 2).
The rationale for the study was given in the background to the paper “COVID vaccine hesitancy is a reflection of psychology that might also contribute to traffic safety. We tested whether COVID vaccination was associated with the risks of a traffic crash.”
Vaccine hesitancy is defined by the World Health Organisation as “a delay in acceptance or refusal of vaccination against an important contagious disease despite supply (distribution), access (availability), and awareness (albeit with possible misinformation).” The hypothesis being tested was “individual adults who tend to resist public health recommendations might also neglect basic road safety guidelines.” That’s a subjective judgement, but studies are allowed to test presuppositions.
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka, Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show on part 3 of our 200th Episode Special.
If you do not know what is going on already, I am pretty surprised as to why you would’ve clicked on this episode given the title, but I will explain it just in case.
We recently were celebrating our 200th episode special. We realized the content that we wanted to include on the 200th episode was going to have to span over a few episodes. What we are doing for this special is taking the best advice from every single guest we ever had on this show and compiling it into one thing.
How we are compiling the best advice from all these guests is by taking the answers from our signature question on the Health Detective Podcast. The signature question that we always finish with is, if the person could get everyone in the world to do one thing for their health, what is the one thing that they would get them to do?
Now, you could imagine that that probably leads to their best advice overall, that they’re capable of giving. At least for most people it will do this. So, that’s why we are compiling all of those answers to that specific question. We are just continuing this here. This is part three. It’s our final part of the series.
200th Episode: Don’t Ignore Your Intuition
If you’d like to listen to the other two parts, you can find those in the show notes below, but I don’t think this needs any further explanation. If you’re not looking for an episode like this, then just stick around, make sure you are subscribed. We will be back next time with our normally scheduled interviews and interesting health content. Without further ado, let’s get to the final part in our 200th episode special.
Dr. Piper Gibson: I would specifically to moms, not ignore your gut when it comes to your child’s health. Do not ignore your gut. If you feel like in your gut, if you feel like your mother’s soul, your mother’s intuition, something is wrong, explore that. Honestly, so many people just ignore that gut feeling.
Dr. Sandeep Gupta: Wow, that’s a great question. And to be honest, I’ve never thought about it. But right at this moment, I’m going to go with meditation. The reason for that is I believe that just from doing that and from getting some more stillness within and getting a rising consciousness, that it’s likely that other things are going to come from there. And that’s why I’m going with that rather than saying something like just eliminate gluten or just eliminate sugar. Which those are of course hugely important, there’s no doubt about it.
Dr. Kyrin Dunston: It is to stop eating sugar, number one, hands down. Stop with the sugar, y’all. Keep it to like 24 grams of sugar a day or less. If you did that one thing, you could transform your health. Even what we call the standard American diet, the SAD diet, is full of sugar. It’s appalling.
So, everybody’s familiar with the Super Size Me movie with Morgan Sperlock, who ate obviously unhealthy food and totally derailed his health in two months. But not everyone’s familiar with the movie called That Sugar Film by Damon Gameau, who’s an Australian filmmaker who ate quote/unquote “healthy” food that most Americans think is healthy, granola bars, yogurt, smoothies. And he completely derailed his health in two months. Stop with the sugar. (Download – Mastering Hormones To Lose 100 POUNDS w/ Dr. Kyrin Dunston, MD | Podbean)
200th Episode: Wear a Glucose Monitor, Adopt a Simple Routine, Laugh, and Connect with Nature
Xiaoyun Pan: I would like people to just have a simple routine for their day. They don’t have to start with anything complicated, that they don’t have to decide, should I go to keto, or should I do the intermittent fasting? Just start with those simple routine, doing some very basic things like drinking enough water, like move your body, get some sunlight.
Ginny Miller: Of course, it’s hard cause there’s so many things. But I have come to believe that getting in nature and especially barefoot, if possible, or at least touching a tree, getting your hands in the soil. Connecting with nature as often as you can is critical. I mean, it’s as important as sleeping and eating and all that other stuff. But that’s what we’ve lost in today’s modern society. I love my computer too, believe me. But if we’re at our desk, at the computer too long and not getting outside, sunshine, fresh air. (Download – The REAL Reason Some Clients Stay Sick w/ Ginny Miller, FDN-P | Podbean)
200th Episode: Take Imperfect Action & Control the Light
Jo Pate: What I say to everybody all the time is take imperfect action. I think people get paralyzed in if I don’t have the right diet, if I don’t have the right foods, if I can’t afford this food, I can’t do this exercise program, I can’t get this sleep. If I can’t do everything at once. I don’t do anything at all. I’ve met people like that. I’ve had people like that in my office, in my chair that feel like if I can’t do it all, it’s not worth doing anything.
So, honestly, I would encourage everybody to take imperfect action. If there’s just one thing you can do today and that is walk for 20 minutes, then you walk for 20 minutes. If that’s the only thing that you can do, do it, because it builds right? Eventually you’re going to feel better walking that 20 minutes and then there’s something else you’re going to choose to do. Then there’s something else.
Greg Gostincar: It’s fair to say that since we talked about it a lot and we both know the effects of that, it’s controlling the light basically. That’s the simplest thing to do and has so many benefits. People can actually see the benefits in a very short time for free. I think that that would be the one. Yeah. (Download – Achieve Peak Brain And Mental Performance w/ Greg Gostincar | Podbean)
200th Episode: No More Diets, Goats’ Milk Keifer, & Sleep More
Hally Brooke: Okay, so the first one is stop Googling diets. Please don’t do another thing called a diet, ever. It’s a 300 billion industry with a 95% fail rate. If we can destroy that industry, that would be great. So, no more diets.
Matt Terry: Sleep more. Very easy. If people slept at least seven, eight hours a day, you actually, technically, wouldn’t age. If you look at the sleep studies on that, one of the reasons why you age and you age poorly is cause you don’t recover from the day. So, if you had recovery from the day and you had full sleep cycles, you would age much slower and you’d have way less health problems. That’s the number one thing I would tell people when they first come in, they meet with me like, like I said before, if we don’t get you sleeping, we’ve got some major problems.
I don’t care about really a lot of other things, even food choices. I care about sleep way more than that. Cause I’ve had people eat perfect foods and workout tons who sleep like crap, who are very unhealthy people and have bad labs. And I’ve had people who are like their food’s ok. They sleep really well. Just some major movements. They control their stress. They’re not super high strung. Their labs are awesome, and they feel really good.
200th Episode: Be the Driver of Your Own Health Bus
Alyce Adams: To understand or decide that their health is in their hands. That whatever is going on with their health and their body, they are the person driving the bus.
Kimberly Boehm: Go outside. If you go outside, you’re going to get fresh air, you’re going to get sunlight, you’re going to get the grounding of the earth. Something somebody told me the other day is, I don’t really need to be out in the earth. What does that have to do with anything? And I said, you know, when was the last time you bought seeds in an envelope that grew in the envelope? They don’t. There’s an innate intelligence, you gotta put them in the ground. Then they sprout, but they don’t grow in an envelope. We don’t grow inside either. Go outside. (Download – How Kim Went From Nursing to FDN Extraordinaire w/ Kimberly Boehm, FDN-P | Podbean)
Patrick Porter, PhD: I would have them start every morning with a meditation that upregulates their brain and gets them ready for the day without any synthetic means, just by their own breath, thoughts, and actions, and get them right. I think everything starts first thing in the morning. You win the day by winning the morning. (Download – A Headset That Can Improve Dementia? You Bet! w/ Patrick Porter, PhD | Podbean)
200th Episode: Take Magnesium and a Spore-Based Probiotic
Nattha Wannissorn, PhD: Magnesium. Yeah, I think that would improve everyone’s health.
Kiran Krishnan: That’s a great question. This might sound biased, but I would genuinely have them take a researched spore-based probiotic. I think the impact that these microbes have on your system keeps surprising us.
Every time we look at it, every time we do a new study it just baffles us the kinds of impact that they can make on your system. Not only are they themselves producing things and changing things and creating things that impact your health in a positive way but they’re also influencing the rest of your microbiome to become more commensal, more beneficial and all that. That can be a sea of change for people with their health. So, although it seems biased, that’s one thing I would do.
Stop Getting Misguided Health Information
The second thing, a thing that I would ask them to stop doing, is stop getting misguided information on health. One of the unfortunate things about the internet is that anyone can be on there talking about anything, giving any kind of advice, right? And more often than not, people who are qualified, people who have the background, who understand science and health and so on, are trying to undo misinformation that people have baked into their brains.
Follow somebody who’s trained, follow an FDN, right? Follow a nutritionist. Follow a RD or doctor of some sort that seems to be trained in the field. Have a little bit more discernment about whose information you look at. Then try to get all your supplement advice and knowledge from people who know how to vet this stuff.
200th Episode: Realize How You Speak to Yourself & Get Moving
Gabriela Couto: I could go in so many different aspects of this. If we’re talking about mental health, I would definitely say to start with awareness and realizing how are you speaking to yourself, the language of your mind, and how your mind is speaking to you.
I love the whole mind body connection and so I just say movement, getting your body out to move, seeing what your body says to you. I don’t mean just by like, yes, walking is great, but what are like the tightness of your hips? So, like if you are working out a lot, just making sure that you’re being counter active with the stretching aspect of it because we do tend to hold a lot of trauma in our fascia. And so really making sure that we’re being diverse with our workouts and our movements. (Download – Fluoride IS Dangerous, And We Can Prove It w/ Gabriela Couto (Formal Dental Hygienist) | Podbean)
Becca Kyle: I would say make more time in your life for rest and play. They are not luxuries. They are necessities in your life. If you are going, going, going, and not resting and not playing, it’s like kind of being in the stress-based tunnel vision. You’re missing really great answers to the problems that you’re having.
200th Episode: Make More Time for Rest and Play
Creativity is in your peripheral vision. You can kind of be like a racehorse with its blinders on. You’re not seeing simple solutions that are just right outside those little blinders. So, when you activate that parasympathetic nervous system, that rest and digest, when you rest, when you play, when you add some expansiveness into your life is when things start to shift dramatically. It’s all about reducing stress.
To me, two of the easiest ways is making time for rest and making time for play. And that looks different for everybody. It could be a 10-minute walk, or a coffee date with a friend. It could be like literally locking yourself in your bedroom away from your children for a 10-minute nap or painting a picture. I mean, there’s no right or wrong way to rest and play. So, figuring out what that looks like for you and actively participating in it.
I know when you’re stressed out it’s typically rest and play that are the first thing’s to go. You stop doing all those things that delight you. But when you bring them back in, everything starts to shift for the better. And everybody, I don’t care how much money you have, I don’t care how busy you are, I don’t care what you’ve got going on in your life, rest and play doesn’t have to cost anything. It doesn’t have to take up hours of your day. It could be 10 minutes here, five minutes there. So, it’s just a matter of doing it. (Download – Serial Entrepreneur Finally Finds a Home with FDN! w/ Becca Kyle, FDN-P | Podbean)
200th Episode: Improve Your Indoor Air Quality & Do ProLon Fasts
Ryan Mihalkovitz: Yeah. Super tough question. But I really do think, maybe I’m a little biased with this, but really just getting your indoor air quality either checked or having that on point.
Shawna O’neill: Even knowing the question, it’s a hard question to answer. But I think I would say to trust your body and your instincts. That gut instinct is something. If somebody tells you something, you read an article and it doesn’t resonate with you and everybody’s doing whatever, keto or whatever, and it doesn’t fit for you, then just trust what your body’s telling you when you do something. (Download – Accounting, Equine Therapy, and Healing Using FDN w/ Shawna O’neill | Podbean)
Dr. William Hsul: It’s easy for me. I think the science has shown over and over again, five-day ProLon Fast three times a year. It’ll do wonders to your health. 15 days of effort in 365 days in a year, think about that. Three, five-day cycles of ProLon. You will be amazed what it can do for you. A little bit of a break, a little bit of a fast can do wonders for your health. (Download – How To Fast (Without The Fast?) w/ Dr. William Hsul | Podbean)
200th Episode: Walk While Incorporating Other Healthy Options & Don’t Drink US Tap Water
Dr. Benjamin Torres: I knew you were going to ask me one of these questions. Like, I should’ve really listened to the end of one of these podcasts, so I’d know what the question is. I didn’t and now I’m on the spot. If I could recommend somebody does one thing for their health. I think the number one thing that I’d recommend somebody does is walk. Almost anybody can do it regardless of where their functional level is.
There is tons of research that says it has therapeutic value for a vast amount of conditions. And you can do a lot of things during that walk. Whether it’s listening to a podcast like this to better yourself, whether it’s breath work, whether it’s core strength, whatever it may be, there’s so much you can do within that. Walking has such a diverse amount of benefit. If I had to just say one thing for everybody to do regularly, I’d say walk. (Download – How Work-From-Home Entrepreneurs Can Improve Mobility w/ Dr. Benjamin Torres, DPT | Podbean)
200th Episode: Get 10 Minutes of Sunlight Every Morning & Erase Mom Guilt
Karen Thomas: Eat whole foods. Eat a whole orange, not orange juice. Eat a whole apple. Just eat whole foods. Stay to the perimeter of your grocery store because that’s where the good food is, not those middle aisles with the processed stuff. It’s the fruit, the vegetables. If you do meat, eat organic, grass fed, pasture raised. Really invest in what you’re putting in your mouth every day because what you are putting in your mouth is going to give your body the information it needs to succeed and to give you the energy that you need to do whatever it is you’re doing. So yes, that is the one thing that I would say is eat whole foods (Download – 2 Years BEDRIDDEN To Functional BADASS w/ Karen Thomas | Podbean).
Jess Sherman: I should have done my homework, so I’d know what the question was.
I’ll tell you one thing I would wave my magic wand on is to erase mom guilt. Like just erase it from the face of the planet so it does not exist, cause guilt does not serve us. We all think of what we should have done, what we could have done, what we didn’t do, what I wish I had done, and what I wish I had known. So, that would be gone.
200th Episode: For Parents to Discuss Their Vision of Health
Then I think if I can do two, can I do two? If I could do two, one would be to have a good solid conversation with your parenting partner about health and your vision of health. What does a healthy family look like to you, feel like to you? What does a healthy child look like and feel like to you? And how close, or how far away from that are you right now?
I tell people that I help people course correct. I just course correct. But you have to first identify that there’s something to course correct. We get so busy in our lives and we’re just on a treadmill as parents.
Just stop for a sec, take a breath, and think about what the vision of health you have is. What is it that you want for your kids and for your family? From there, if you have that vision, that’s the starting point. You don’t know how to get there because otherwise, you would be there by now. So, don’t worry about that, just think about what it is that you want.
Dr. Bradley Campbell: I would get them to stop doing their drugs every day and start doing them with more intention. That includes caffeine, alcohol, marijuana, unless they’re prescribed a drug. I think most people are overconsuming drugs on a daily basis, and that’s leaving them not truly authentic to who they are. They’re covering up a lot of their physical and emotional health problems by waking up early with caffeine in the morning or using alcohol or marijuana to go to bed.
Jeremy Quinby: I’d get them to sleep eight hours a night.
I mean there’s so much restorative work that happens in sleep. It’s amazing to see how kids can sleep and not every kid can sleep well. I mean, I work with some of those kids too. But as we age, I think just the number of things that we’re processing makes it harder and harder for us to fall asleep, to stay asleep.
And then if we have any physical challenges going on, I mean, when I had back problems, I slept horribly. And just what that ends up doing for our mental-emotional states too. I think if I could get everyone that I’m working with too, and it’s one of the first things that I do when I first start working with people is I make them commit to for the next four weeks, to add a half hour a night of sleep.
Basically, either you gotta do it on the front end or on the back end. But I think for most people they gotta go to bed earlier. I’ll usually suggest getting off of devices and setting some boundaries around when you’re taking emails and texts and work-related stuff too, because that all eats into that stuff. But that’s the magic wand that I’d like to use. (Download – The Magic Of Craniosacral Therapy w/ Jeremy Quinby | Podbean)
Be Very Cognizant of Your Breathing
Madalyn Tavares: Oh, man. I’m going to go with the first thing that came to my mind, which is to get outside, get your bare feet on the earth. I know that sounds a bit woo-woo, but if you can just breathe some fresh air, spend some time with people that you love, spend time outside, roll around in the dirt with your animals, like, just allow yourself to be exposed and in nature. I think we spend a lot of time inside.
Baldo Garzas: I think that for me, I would say, it’s kind of a combination. But the answer is meditation and being very cognizant of your breathing. For me, that’s the most important thing.
There are so many times that I find myself in a certain situation, and the first thing that I notice now is like, well, how am I breathing? When I feel like I can’t control anything else, then I can at least control my breathing, slow it down. Usually what happens is that I start getting solutions for different problems that I’m thinking about or that I’m stressed about. It’s kind of reverse engineering, right? Like the breath is the first thing that happens.
But for me, it comes from the meditation. My meditation in the morning is kind of like a calibration. That way, whenever I know that I’m not in that state, I can easily bring it back through my breath.
Amitay Eshel: Mindfulness practice, meditation. Bar none. I mean, very easy research shows improvement in health and inflammation reduction. I think we have two things that we’re doing in this life. Like we’re taking care of our own happiness in both cases, but the first one is more active. And the other one is improving our environment so the environment can then be conducive to a better life for us. I’m obviously talking about it in a very selfish way, so it would be applicable to everyone.
But you know, if I’m the only one that has a good life, everyone around me does not, I’m going to suffer because I’m going to have to live in a castle detached from everyone else. I think mindfulness practice does both. It improves your health and well-being. And if you could spread that around, it’s going to be obviously a huge benefit to the environment, to people around you, to everyone. (Download – How To Reverse The Age Of Your Skin w/ Amitay Eshel | Podbean)
Invest in Mindset Therapy, Be Open to Changing Your Opinion, & Forgive
Tara Garrison: Man, that’s a tough one. My mind is going to so many places.
I would say, honestly, it’s a kind of outside-of-the-box answer but investing in help on how you relate to yourself and your mindset, whether that’s therapy or coaching or something like that. The way that you see life, if you can start to change the lens of reality through which you see life, you can start to change all of your health patterns.
That’s why I do mindset coaching in my health coaching. Because it’s like, Dude, how many times have you done a freaking plan? It’s not that, it’s the lens through which you’re seeing life. So, I would say like subconscious mind reprogramming. Some sort of program that offers that is what I would want for people. Then they can change all of it way more easily because of the way that they’re looking at life and themselves and all of that. So, mindset work. (Download – Entrepreneurship, Strength Training, And Coaching Celebrities w/ Tara Garrison | Podbean)
Aline McCarthy: Prioritize sleep. I think that is so undervalued. Every single cell in your body has a circadian clock. We are all exposed to screen light. We don’t spend enough time in nature anymore. I think the health disruption from not sleeping enough and having too much blue light and not enough sunlight is absolutely massive. (Download – Rheumatoid Arthritis Diagnosis GONE w/ Aline McCarthy, FDN-P | Podbean)
Danielle Daem: Trusting my intuition here, the first thing that came to me is getting them to spend time every day just connecting with themselves. So, taking a minute to just be with yourself and learn to look inward and just connect with that beautiful human that has been hiding in there. (Download – The Relationship Between Trauma And Sugar Addiction w/ Danielle Daem | Podbean)
Do you feel like you have a challenging and frustrating relationship with food?
Well, Ann, one of our Mindful Nutrition Method™ students, found that she was feeling this exact way. She was very frustrated with food and had a bad relationship with food. She realized that she had issues with binge eating and overeating, which was really starting to impact her life.
She experienced issues of self-confidence, low self-worth, and stress that really took a toll on her emotions, which then impacted her eating habits.
The good news is she’s now aware, empowered, and present around food fully to where she is more conscious of her eating habits which he’s her from overeating or binging. The level of awareness she built using tools inside the Mindful Nutrition Method, gave her clarity to connect emotions and her food habits so she could take the actions she wanted — to stop overeating or emotional eating.
You’re not alone if you’re feeling this way about food too.
Watch this video to hear from Ann all about her full journey to cultivating a more present and positive relationship with food!
The Challenge: Disconnected & Emotional Eating
Ann shared that it was frustrating to have a bad relationship with food where overeating, binge eating, and emotional eating were present in her experience.
She realized that her emotions were guiding a lot of her food choices in addition to feeling low confidence and self-worth.
“Before joining the method, I was frustrated with food and I had a very bad relationship with food.
I had issues with binge eating, so one thing the method has helped me with is understanding my personal and specific reasons why I would overeat and the connection between emotion and food.”
And Ann is not alone. Our food habits, such as binge eating and emotional eating, can come from so many other factors in our lives from the way we grew up, mindsets we’ve adopted over the years, diet culture, and just feeling disconnected from ourselves.
What Supported Ann To Stop Overeating
In order to get out of the diet cycle where emotional eating and overeating are present, you need to tap into your mindful muscle to start to be present around food. This then helps you discover a new relationship with food where you’re more connected to why certain actions take place.
This level of awareness and building the mindfulness muscle support all the choices you’re making around food. A balanced relationship like this allows you to tune into your body, feel confident in your own choices, and feel free from the stress of the scale.
Here are a few tools Ann used to help her cultivate a more present and positive relationship with food!
1. Becoming More Mindful and Present with Her Emotions
One of the primary concepts we focus on the inside of the Mindful Nutrition Method™ is listening to our body and being present around food, this includes the thoughts and emotions we have around food. Students learn to tune into their bodies and trust the messages it’s sending so they can feel confident about the choices they make for themselves.
This helps eliminate that feeling of constantly being stressed about food or letting emotions lead the way.
Learning this skill allowed Ann to look at her emotions in a different way. She began checking in and reflecting on her emotions — when she felt stressed what food did she eat? Angry? etc.
She worked with her emotions instead of working against them.
“But to break it down into what happened this week and how did that affect your eating, my eating, I think, has been really helpful…I could really tune into those moments when I was highly stressed about that, and frustrated, and angry, and how that translated into what I was eating, or in some cases, very happily, I could say, “Okay.” I know that these feelings are here and that’s not… I don’t have to connect that to eating…”
The check-in practices we teach inside of MNM guide you to tune into your body and understand why you choose to make certain food decisions over others. They allow you to bring awareness to the patterns you have with your eating habits. You then learn how to best align your actions with what works best for you.
This inner knowing makes it much easier to make changes. You’re no longer following what someone else is telling you to do. Instead, you’re using your own self-awareness to feel confident in what allows you to feel your best.
2. Shifting Her Focus to Self-Compassion & Flexibility
Another shift Ann experienced while using the Mindfuul Nutrition Method, was releasing the negative self-talk or critical talk to herself when she made a food choice that she didn’t intend to.
“…I’ve learned a lot about not beating myself up about it. If I am stressed or angry and I do eat something that I didn’t intend to or was not as healthy as I would have liked, it’s okay. Just let it go, it happened and move on. And the next thing I eat can be healthier or I can re-evaluate that emotion.”
This took away the pressure and frustration around the food she was previously feeling.
This self-compassion showed up in her food choices too by freeing herself from the good vs. bad food mentality.
“…You can have a milkshake sometimes. That’s not a bad thing.” And even you can have a milkshake sometimes if you’re having a bad day, and that’s going to make you feel better. But I think being conscious of that. Maybe that’s really it, the mindset… I think, what’s really shifted is that I’m just more conscious of what I’m doing and more present when I’m cooking.”
“What’s really shifted is that I’m more conscious of what I’m doing and more present and that’s had such a positive impact to stop overeating.”
Learn The Practices Ann Used To Stop Being So Stressed About Food
This is such a beautiful transformation from Ann. We’re so grateful to have been a part of her journey in making all of this possible for her!
Now you can learn exactly how Ann, along with so many other students, experienced that transformation with their eating habits using our Mindful Nutrition Method™ by watching our free masterclass.
You’ll learn about the #1 Habit That Keeps You Struggling With Your Weight and your Relationship With Food — And How To Break Free From The Diet And Food Obsession Starting Now.
You don’t need to stress and obsess about food. There is a better way and yes it’s possible to cultivate a positive relationship with food! Join this free balanced eating masterclass to learn how.
Looking to finally stop emotionally eating? Keep reading to learn 4 easy tips you can implement today.
Emotions and food are so intertwined. Our feelings impact what we want to eat, what we don’t want to eat, as well as how much we eat. To a certain degree, this is completely normal and completely harmless. But sometimes, emotional eating can get a bit out of hand.
If you’re unable to control yourself when you’re emotional and around food, there are some quick tips you can implement that will significantly reduce these instances. It’s all about awareness, mindfulness, and intentional action. Let’s get into it!
What is Emotional Eating?
In order to stop emotionally eating, we have to get to know what it really means to emotionally eat. At its core, emotional eating happens when food is used to cope with emotions, as opposed to being used to satisfy hunger. This means you’re using food as a form of comfort, even when you’re not hungry or in need of more energy. It’s often a form of mindless eating. Over time, this can create an imbalanced, confusing relationship with food.
What we’re not talking about here is when emotions have a slight impact on your food choices. Maybe you have a certain comfort food you enjoy having when you’re sad, or certain foods you like to enjoy when you’re excited. These scenarios don’t call for any intervention, as long as they’re done mindfully, intentionally, and generally in the presence of physical hunger.
Our goal isn’t to completely separate food from emotion, that’s no fun at all! But instead, ensure your emotions are only impacting your eating habits in a positive, balanced way. By learning how to create this relationship, you can learn to stop emotionally eating.
4 Tips to Stop Emotionally Eating
Here are my top 4 tips to stop emotionally eating. Start with the first one, then slowly but surely make your way through to implement them all!
Address Emotions Head On
This is the most important tip. Emotional eating often takes place when emotions and stressors are left unaddressed. In order to stop emotionally eating, we need to address our emotions as they arise.
Sometimes this is fairly easy. Maybe you’re feeling a little overwhelmed by this week’s workload and you’re finding yourself turning to food for comfort. In this scenario, you really only need to learn how to cope with the temporary stress of work and implement some systems to help you do so.
Other times, it takes a bit more work. Some emotions are deep-rooted, and may not be easily addressed on your own. In this case, therapy and counseling can work wonders. Working with someone to help cope with emotions can have a significant positive impact on your relationship with food when emotional eating is taking place.
If you address difficult emotions as they arise, and work through deep-rooted emotions from your past, you’ll give yourself the opportunity to stop emotionally eating.
Implement Intentional Emotion Check-ins
In order to be proactive about addressing your emotions, it can be really helpful to implement intentional emotional check-ins. It may sound silly, but this type of proactive action makes it much easier to remain mindful on a daily basis.
If you struggle to identify emotions on the regular, try setting a particular time of day where you take a moment to pause and reflect. Ask yourself questions like, “How do I feel right now?”, “How have I felt today?”, and “What can I do to cope with these emotions?”. Simply bringing awareness to your emotions can make a world of a difference. That way you’re less likely to reach for food mindlessly and unintentionally. Over time, you’ll then be able to stop emotionally eating.
Reacquaint Yourself with Hunger and Satiety
Emotional eating also takes place when we don’t fully know how to decipher or interpret our hunger and satiety cues. These are the cues our body uses to tell us when we’re hungry and when we’re full. If we don’t understand them, it’s much easier to emotionally eat in the absence of hunger.
To reacquaint yourself with your hunger and satiety, start by reflecting on it before and after meals. As you’re sitting down to a meal, how do you feel? Do you physically feel hunger? What does it feel like? If not, what does satiety feel like? How do you know that you’re not really hungry?
That way, the next time you’re reaching for food in the absence of hunger in response to an emotion, you can conduct a quick check-in. That quick check-in will soon become a habit, and you’ll be able to stop emotionally eating.
Get to Know Your Triggers
While it is possible to have all heightened emotions cause emotional eating, in my experience, this often isn’t the case. Individuals usually have certain emotional triggers that lead them to emotionally eat. Whether it’s a certain person that makes them feel a certain way, or a particular situation or feeling.
Take some time to reflect on the instances when you found yourself emotionally eating. Try and think through the common denomenators. What kind of emotion were you experiencing? Are there any common environments or people involved in these scenarios?
Once you’ve identified your possible triggers, you can start to prepare yourself. The next time you find yourself feeling said emotion, you’ll be that much more aware of it and can work to mindfully stop emotionally eating.
The Takeaway
Learning to stop emotional eating takes time, reflection, and mindfulness. Don’t forget to be compassionate with yourself as you’re trying to stop emotionally eating! Remember that you’re only human and change doesn’t take place overnight.
Do You Want to Experience More Balance with your Food Choices?
Then find your balanced eating type!
Take this 45-second free quiz to find out which balanced eating archetype you are, and what your unique type needs to maintain balance with the way you nourish yourself. That way, you can finally be free from food and diet obsession, maintain a balanced weight, and cultivate a positive relationship with food and your body.
We create more than a hundred new videos every year. They are the culmination of hundreds of hours of researching, writing, animating, editing, and producing. We comb through thousands of scientific papers from the peer-reviewed medical literature so that busy people like you don’t have to.
In 2022, I covered topics from athletics and atrial fibrillation to vitamin supplements and wrinkles. Which videos floated to the top of the charts this year? Check out the top ten.
This video just came out and has already become one of the most popular of the year. To summarize, there is no good evidence that vitamin K has bone, brain, or heart benefits beyond its blood-clotting function. And, even if such evidence arose, we can get all of the vitamin K we need from eating greens, since there’s no requirement specifically for vitamin K2. Further, if some evidence did arise that there was some unique benefit from K2, our microbiome makes K2 from the K1 we get from greens. And, even if we had a problem with our microbiome, we can make K1 from K2, just like other animals do. So, the bottom line: Eat your greens.
This video asks and answers the question: What food can eradicate H. pylori in the majority of patients? For some background on the Achilles’ heel in certain Asian diets, check out The Role of Kimchi and H. Pylori in Stomach Cancer.
This video captured the eighth spot in our top ten, but I also covered Supplements for Hair Growth and Pills for Hair Growth in case you want to take an even deeper dive. Note I added a correction to the pepper information in the table around minute 2:40. As our new in-house video fact-checker just pointed out, the mg/g values for capsaicin weren’t for regular fresh peppers, but fresh peppers that were then dried! So, it’s a little more daunting. Instead of “a quarter of a fresh jalapeño,” it’s more like “a third of a habanero or a teaspoon of medium-hot red pepper spice.”
A few months ago, the acclaimed U.S. Preventive Services Task Force published a recommendation to begin screening kids for anxiety starting at age eight. I’m planning to create an entire series of videos next year on dealing with anxiety, but until then, check out this video discussing the risks and benefits of using vitamin C for depression and anxiety.
In this video, which took fifth place in our top ten, I address the foods and food components that can boost the integrity of our intestinal barrier. If you missed the backgrounder video, check out Avoid These Foods to Prevent a Leaky Gut, in which I talk about the over-the-counter drugs and diets that make things worse.
A whole food, plant-based diet is basically synonymous with an anti-inflammatory diet, whereas inflammatory markers can double within six hours of eating a pro-inflammatory meal, which I cover in the companion video Foods That Cause Inflammation. This may help explain the remarkable findings in another popular video this year: Plant-Based Eating Score Put to the Test. So, Why Don’t People Eat Healthier? That’s another one of my favorites released in 2022!
This important video is a long time coming, addressing which foods we should eat and avoid to reduce our risk of Afib. It’s chock full of information and ends with a compelling and emotional case report of the power of evidence-based nutrition to reverse disease.
As you may know, I’ve been researching and writing a new book on longevity. After it’s been put to bed, edited, fact-checked, copyedited, and published, and I’ve completed my book tour, my next book will be on cancer survival; so, there will be a lot more forthcoming on this critically important topic. Until then, I have dozens of videos on cancer prevention and treatment, including a mind-blowing series on chemotherapy released this year that asked and answered the questions: How Effective Is Chemotherapy? and How Much Does Chemotherapy Improve Survival?.
