When Culinary Nutrition Expert Geeta Sakhuja attended her first cooking class in Toronto’s Liberty Village in 2017, she never imagined that just a few years later she’d be returning to that same neighbourhood to deliver a cooking lesson of her own. But that first class ignited a spark – and led her to begin cooking up a storm, take more classes, join the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program, and eventually start her own business teaching others.
A Longtime Love of Cooking
Geeta grew up in Kuwait, the daughter of expat parents who were originally from New Delhi, the capital of India. As a child, she watched her aunt grind aromatic spices by hand and became obsessed with cooking her aunt’s chicken biryani recipe (something she would later perfect in adulthood when she began teaching her own cooking classes). Her love of food expanded as she attended Sikh temples, where she explored a variety of plant-based dishes and cooked with fragrant spices and herbs like fenugreek seeds and curry leaves.
After immigrating to Canada at 18 years old by herself, Geeta studied marketing and left behind the dream of becoming a chef. She realized that the long hours and physical demands of working in a hot kitchen weren’t for her, so she pursued what she describes as the ‘safe route’. But she always knew a career in food and nutrition was in her future, even though she had yet to discover what shape that career would take.
Health Challenges and a New Direction
Like many young adults, Geeta ate a lot of processed, fast foods and cooked very little from scratch. She didn’t understand the connection between food and her health until 2013 when she was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and began to focus on her wellbeing. She immediately eliminated gluten and dairy, common triggers for a multitude of health issues, and began teaching herself to cook basic recipes.
While attending her first in-person cooking class in 2017, Geeta found herself wondering how the instructor learned everything she knew – because she suddenly wanted to grasp it all, too. She was hooked and started taking more classes, reading, listening, cooking, and eventually searching for a full-fledged course that would teach her the nutrition skills and knowledge she craved.
The problem? Geeta couldn’t find any course that was gluten-free and dairy-free. When she met Meghan Telpner, Founder of the Academy of Culinary Nutrition, at a Toronto-area grocery store event, she discovered that the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program was it.
“I had this inner drive to go deeper with my knowledge around health and nutrition,” Geeta says, “and no one else was teaching what I was looking for.”
Being a Culinary Nutrition Expert Student – and Beyond!
Photo: Prachi Palwe
Geeta joined the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program in 2018 while also working full-time as an account executive at a business-to-business marketing agency. Though she wasn’t 100% sure what she’d end up doing when she graduated, she knew that she was in the right place.
“I made it a goal to make the most of every moment I spent in the program,” she says. “I wanted to be present and learning and making the most of the opportunity. As I moved through the program, the vision became clearer.”
Geeta thrived in the learning environment of the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program, enjoying the thrill of recipe development, trying unfamiliar ingredients, learning new cooking skills, and building the confidence to support her personal health challenges with food by creating her own custom meal and dietary plans. She loved working with her dedicated program coach and receiving encouragement from fellow students in the private Culinary Nutrition Expert community group (something Geeta still uses regularly for wisdom and advice).
She was also impressed with the assignments and the way the program encouraged independent thinking and resourcefulness.
“The assignments pushed me to go further and deeper and think more methodically. The program transforms the way you approach things by encouraging you to ask intelligent questions and find your own answers,” Geeta explains. “In my experience, it is easy to tell someone what to think, but very hard to teach them how to think. The program delivered more than what it had promised.”
The practical skills Geeta learned in the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program are ones she still uses daily, including menu planning, choosing foods and ingredients for optimal health, keeping her fridge and pantry organized, cooking food from scratch, exploring new ingredients and recipes, returning to favourite recipes from the program, and more.
“You’ll recoup what you invest just by using it in your daily life,” she says.
Starting a Side Hustle
The above photo was taken by Melissa Torio, a fellow Culinary Nutrition Expert. She has become a fan of Geeta’s classes and this was the product of attending one one of Geeta’s online classes. It is not uncommon for our graduates to become incredible cheerleaders and supporters of each other’s work.
After graduating from the Culinary Nutrition Expert Program, Geeta gravitated toward what had brought her to this field in the first place: cooking classes. She began teaching classes based on the workshop materials she developed as a student for program assignments, and also worked individually with clients by delivering one-on-one cooking lessons and personal chef services – all while still working full time in marketing.
She began teaching Indian cooking classes and soon found her courses were in high demand – but she had a limited number of recipes she knew how to make. Geeta threw herself into testing and honing healthy recipes for Indian dishes like chicken biryani, oven-baked pakoras, dairy-free butter chicken, chana masala, gluten-free samosas, aloo gobi, and more. She spent time consulting on the phone with her mom (who is still in Kuwait) to capture the heart of traditional dishes and adapted as needed to fit her culinary nutrition principles.
Geeta envisioned taking her classes online eventually, but when COVID-19 hit, she accelerated her plans. Just days after attending a webinar by Meghan Telpner about teaching online, she began running virtual Indian Cooking Masterclasses.
“I’ve always been proactive. When you’re running your own business, you can’t just wait,” she says. “Sometimes you just have to take a leap and try. You have to try and you have to fail. Each time I run a class, I learn something new and I improve as I go along.”
So far, Geeta’s classes have been sold out with rave reviews from guests, including some of her fellow Culinary Nutrition Experts who signed up to learn her expertise and support her.
“Not only did I learn about new spices, spice blends and cooking techniques, I had a delightful experience with the most delicious aromas and flavours. And the leftovers were just as good, or maybe even better, a few days later,” enthuses Nancy Saul-Demers, a 2019 Culinary Nutrition Expert graduate. “For me, this class has responded to my curiosity about a whole new cuisine and sparked my interest in exploring it more.”
In the start-up phase of her business and also employed at her full-time agency job, Geeta is currently working on refining and honing her classes, developing new recipes (and perhaps even her own line of spice blends), and taking some courses to help her implement her online business goals.
It’s only been a few years since she sat in the audience at a cooking class and now Geeta is the one leading the conversation – and she has a deep sense of pride for everything she has accomplished.
“You see people in your own class wanting to learn from you, and it’s just amazing to see a fabric of my cultural heritage being carried forward through food onto others’ plates,” she says. “I also like that I can reach multiple people in different countries. It’s a global world and now I feel like I’m a part of it.”
Tofu Nutrition Facts Tofu is made of condensed soymilk that is pressed into solid blocks — similar to how cheese is made. It is best to buy organic, because most of the soybeans in this country are genetically modified (GMO) and we just don’t have good data on whether GMOs are actually harmful and in exactly what way).
Tofu is nutrient dense, with three and half ounces of firm tofu containing 144 calories, 17g protein, 3g carb, 9g fat, 53% daily value (DV) calcium, a good source of manganese (51% DV), selenium (32% DV) and copper (42% DV), and a pretty good source of vitamin A (18% DV), zinc (14% DV), magnesium (14% DV) and iron (15% DV). Tofu also has some B vitamins. Tofu is considered a complete protein, having all nine essential amino acids.
Tofu Anti-Nutrients Tofu does contain phytates, which reduces the absorption of minerals calcium, zinc and iron. Best to have some soy in the fermented version, miso, tamari (gf soy) and tempeh, which helps to reduce the effects of the phytate component.
Isoflavones Tofu also has isoflavones, which are compounds that are structurally similar to the estrogen hormones. According to nutrition researchers at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health, adding soy to your diet has benefits for heart and metabolic health. And isoflavones are actually weak estrogens that are anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer and have anti-oxidant properties. YAY!
Tofu + Cancer There has been worry for a long time that the isoflavones in soy promote breast cancer. Through research we know that women who eat higher amounts of soy have NO greater risk or LOWER risk of developing breast cancer than those who eat little to no soy. (This research was done by Xiao-Ou Shu, a professor of epidemiology at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine). There is also research to suggest it has protective effects with prostate and lung cancer.
Menopause + Aging There are some smaller research studies that point to soy reducing hot flashes. The WELL article feels it would OK to include 1-2 servings per day of WHOLE food soy into the diet to minimize the impact of hot flashes. There is also limited research to suggest that dietary soy is associated with lower risk of bone issues in post-menopausal women.
Tofu + Heart Health In a 2020 study, it was found that tofu (and associated isoflavones) has heart benefits and was associated with moderately lowered risk of coronary heart disease.
Thyroid The article didn’t address thyroid, but it is well researched that soy is a thyroid inhibitor and should be used sparingly if one has a history of thyroid problems.
Environmental Impact Soy, along with other plant-based proteins, have lower greenhouse gas footprints than animal proteins.
3 Easy Spice Rubs Drizzle a little bit of oil on the chicken, add the spice rub to the chicken and let sit for a few minutes to a few hours. Then grill.
Basic Rub Blend: 1 tsp paprika (smoked or regular), garlic powder ½ tsp pepper and salt and brown sugar 2 tbsp oil to coat chicken so spices stick
Greek Rub Blend: 1 tsp: garlic powder, dried oregano, lemon zest ½ tsp: dried onion, black pepper, dried parsley, salt ¼ tsp dried thyme 2 tbsp olive oil to coat chicken so spices stick
Italian Rub Blend: 1 tsp: garlic powder, onion powder ½ tsp: sweet paprika, salt, and black pepper, dried basil 2 tbsp olive oil to coat chicken so spices stick
4 oranges 2 fennel bulbs, stalks discarded, bulbs halved, cored and sliced thin ½ cup kalamata olives, quartered ¼ cup coarsely chopped mint 2 tbsp lemon juice Salt and pepper to taste ¼ cup extra virgin olive oil
Peel and slice oranges. Combine with sliced fennel, olives and mint. Whisk lemon, salt and pepper, and olive oil. Toss with salad.
Salad Niçoise Serves 4
Salad 1/2 pound red potatoes, quartered 1 heads Boston lettuce (Bib lettuce), torn into pieces 1 (5oz.) can solid white tuna in water, drained and flaked 3 small potatoes, chopped 1/2 small red onion, chopped 4 ounces green beans, trimmed and halved 3 hard cooked eggs, peeled and quartered 1 tbsp capers, rinsed
Dressing ¼ cup lemon juice 1 shallot, minced 2 tbsp minced fresh basil 1 tsp mince dried thyme 1 tsp minced dried oregano 1 tsp Dijon mustard Salt and pepper to taste ½ cup extra virgin olive oil
First make the dressing. Next the salad. Cook potatoes in water until soft. ~5-8 min. Toss warm potatoes in a little vinaigrette while still warm. Set aside. Place lettuce on platter, add tuna, tomatoes, onions, and potatoes. Blanche beans in the potato water until soft ~3 min. Add to platter, top with capers and dressing.
Garlicky Kale Serves 4
6 tbsp extra virgin olive oil 1 large onion, chopped fine 5 garlic cloves, minced Pinch of red pepper flakes 1 cup chicken broth ½ cup water 2 pounds kale, stemmed and slivered 1 tbsp lemon juice
Heat oil in a large skillet. Add onion and cook until softened and caramelized ~7 min. Stir in garlic, pepper flakes and then broth, water and kale. Cover until wilted and tender ~15 min. The liquid should be evaporated, and greens will sizzle. Add lemon juice, salt and pepper to taste.
1 cucumber, peeled, halved lengthwise, seeded and cut into ½ inch pieces 10 ounces grape tomatoes, quartered Salt and pepper 3 tbsp red wine vinegar 1 garlic clove, minced 3 tbsp extra virgin olive oil 1 (15oz) can chickpeas, rinsed ½ cup kalamata olives ½ small red onion, minced ½ cup fresh parsley, chopped 1 romaine heart lettuce, cut into ½ inch pieces 4 oz. feta cheese (if dairy is tolerated)
Toss cucumber, tomatoes and salt, let sit for 15 minutes, drain. Whisk together vinegar and garlic and oil. Add cucumber tomato mixture, chickpeas, olives, onion and parsley. Toss to coat. Add lettuce and feta and toss again. Salt and pepper to taste.
Skillet Roasted Cauliflower with Capers and Pine Nuts Serves 4
1 head cauliflower ¼ cup extra virgin olive oil ¾ tsp salt 1 garlic clove, minced 2 tbsp capers, rinsed and minced 1 tsp lemon zest plus lemon wedges for serving ¼ cup parsley 2 tbsp fresh chives, chopped ¼ cup pine nuts, toasted
Trim and cut cauliflower into florets. Toss with oil, garlic, salt and pepper and cook in a hot skillet until soft and caramelized ~10 min. Toss in parsley, lemon zest, capers, chives and pine nuts.
Sautéed Zucchini Ribbons Serves 4
1 small garlic clove, minced 1 tsp grated lemon zest plus 1 tbsp lemon juice 4 medium zucchini or yellow squash, trimmed 2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil 2 tbsp fresh chopped parsley
Combine garlic, lemon juice, olive oil, salt and pepper and set aside. Using a vegetable peeler, shave each zucchini until you hit the seeds. Then, turn and shave again until you hit the seeds. Repeat until all sides are shaved. Discard core. Heat 1 tsp oil in nonstick skillet over medium high heat. Add squash and toss until squash has softened ~3 min. but not mushy. Transfer to platter, top with dressing and parsley.
Results from a 16-week randomised controlled trial comparing the DASH (Dietary Approach to Stop Hypertension) diet to a very low-carb diet have been published. The trial sought to evaluate the improvements in blood pressure, blood glucose levels, and weight in individuals with hypertension, pre-diabetes/type 2 diabetes, and overweight/obesity. Additionally, the study aimed to assess whether additional support made a difference in the results.
The trial concluded that the low-carb diet performed significantly better than the DASH diet in terms of blood pressure, blood glucose levels, and weight loss. Participants on the very low-carb diet lost nearly nine additional pounds compared to those on the DASH diet. These results suggest that a low-carb diet may be a more effective dietary approach for individuals with hypertension and diabetes.
However, the additional support provided to participants did not have a significant impact on the results. The study’s base level of support was already high, which means that additional support had less of a chance to make a difference. Nevertheless, researchers could have tested the value of the base level of support rather than the extra support provided.
The DASH diet is a dietary approach designed to lower high blood pressure. It involves eating fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and low-fat dairy products while limiting foods high in saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium. The very low-carb diet, on the other hand, involves drastically reducing carbohydrate intake while increasing protein and fat intake.
Overall, this study’s results suggest that a very low-carb diet may be a more effective dietary approach than the DASH diet for individuals with hypertension and diabetes.
The full version of this article can be read below
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Well, hello my friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show about customizable meditations.
We are in the midst of our Summer Open House event currently. So, if you are listening to this, you do have some time to check it out. It is a big month for us. We have over 22 Live events that we are doing. And by we, I mean that I will be hosting 19 or 20 out of those 22. It is quite a month.
I’m just kidding cause I have the easier job as host. I don’t have to actually present the whole time. It is pretty nice getting to do it and getting to hear from these wonderful people. We’ve had a ton of engagement so far. It’s just been fun.
If you have not checked any of that out, go to fdntraining.com/summer to check out some Live events. If you do want to get the recordings, that is a paid option. And when you are filling everything out on the website that I just gave you, you will have an option to do VIP. When you do VIP you will have access to the recordings. That is how you can see the stuff that was already done. Otherwise, it is free, but you will have to attend the rest of the events Live. fdntraining.com/summer.
Customizable Meditations: A Better World
Okay. What we are doing today is interviewing a gentleman named David Gull. And he has created something that is, in my opinion, quite groundbreaking. I don’t say that lightly. Sometimes, I feel like I use a lot of hype words. It’s not that I’m trying to ever do that. I just get excited, man. I’m an excitable guy. That’s why they gave me a podcast. With David, I really do mean this when I say it’s kind of groundbreaking and revolutionary, what he’s created.
I’m going to read his bio here for you guys, then we’ll get to it. He is a tech entrepreneur founder, a licensed architect, and a creator. He thrives on designing and building new products. David is currently co-founder and CEO of Ogimi, the first AI Meditation Coach. With Ogimi, he is mission-driven with the goal of helping 1 billion people fix their mental health through highly personalized daily meditation practice.
Meditation has been deeply meaningful to David since he started the practice 15 years ago when he hit the point of burnout early in his architecture career. He knows that if he can help others create and deepen a meditation practice to explore their inner world, he will have made the world a better place.
You can try the app for free at www.ogimi.ai. Of course, we will have that in the show notes for you guys. I’m not going to lie, I’m not someone that’s wild about the AI thing. Some people get ticked off at me for that because they’re like, dude, you’re already using a computer, you’re using a phone. I get that; I was forced into that, basically with the generation that I’m in.
Customizable Meditations: Improving & Inspiring
But man, I guess I’m just one of those people that as things get added on, I’m a little hesitant. However, what I am aware enough to know is that everything has a favorable and unfavorable use. And if we’re going to use this stuff, I think David’s nailing this. I think it will become very clear how he’s nailing it as this podcast progresses. So, without further ado, let’s get to today’s episode.
All right. Hello there, David. And welcome to the Health Detective Podcast. How are you?
[00:03:05] David Gull: Hey Evan, thanks for having me. Super excited to have this conversation with you.
[00:03:09] Detective Ev: Yeah, likewise. It’s a little bit different. You know, at this point in the show when we’ve had a lot of episodes, we bring on a variety of guests and different backgrounds, but I always kind of like going away from, I don’t want to say cookie cutter, but our routine that we have.
Cause typically it’s a person that is an active, like functional nutrition practitioner or whatever, which again, it’s cool, that’s the main point of the show. But anything that we can do to improve people’s health or even inspire them entrepreneurially cause I have a hunch that we’re going to get some of that today with your shift in careers and stuff. That’s always good to get. I love having that on the show.
Customizable Meditations: First AI Powered, Guided Meditation App
So, a little background for people, something that I wouldn’t have mentioned in the bio when I was recording this intro to the show itself is that we have an interesting connection here. For longer term FDNs, they would definitely know Ryan Monahan. He was like one of the fan favorite clinical advisors at FDN. A brilliant, brilliant guy. Super successful practice. The only reason he recently left FDN in that capacity is cause his business was so dang busy he couldn’t justify it. So, very good problem to have.
His partner in crime, Lindy Curtis, works for us now and she’s been doing a lot of affiliate stuff. She got connected with David who, you guys knew each other from when she was back in her real estate days, right? Or just maybe she still does that on the side, I’m not sure. But commercial real estate and now you both somehow got into health, so do I have that correct?
David Gull: Yes, that’s correct.
Detective Ev: All right. So, I gotta ask then, we’ll talk about your company today of course, but commercial real estate and holistic health in any capacity is not typically something that I would imagine goes together too often. Give us a little background on yourself. Did you deal with health symptoms, or did you have something going on? Like what led to this?
[00:04:46] David Gull: Just for quick context, this that it led to is the first AI powered guided meditation coach app. We’ll get into that. But how did I get here?
I actually started out a career in architecture. Well, I don’t know if you know much about that as a career, but it’s pretty intense. It’s super long hours. I was working 60-to-80-hour weeks, pulling all nighters, low pay, total grind. Everyone at some point in their career hits burnout, runs into a wall. For me it just happened to be only one year into my professional career.
So, I was in New York City, high powered architecture firm. I took a vacation from New York City out here to LA where I now live. It took stepping away from the day-to-day business to realize I was completely fried. I spent that vacation sleeping 12 hours a day and realized that I had come across my first health crisis. At this rate, I could not sustain for another 40 to 45 years of a professional career. That was a wakeup call for me.
This should resonate with your listeners. I went back from that vacation and knew something had to change. And I immediately started the paleo diet to address what I was eating, started an exercise routine to address the weight gain and the body pain that I was feeling, and I started a meditation practice. That to me was deeply meaningful in helping me ground myself and get through the stress and anxiety I was experiencing as a result of that career.
It was a complete 180 for me, honestly. You know, I basically took all of those three things, did them simultaneously. I was going to the gym downstairs in my building on my lunch break. Then I would go outside to a nearby cemetery because it was the only place I could find privacy to meditate for 30 minutes. That became my regular go-to routine.
Customizable Meditations: Career Changes
It helped me get through the next five years of that architecture career. Which then led me into the real estate career. So, that’s how I got into real estate. From there I was super excited about entrepreneurship and technology and that’s what kept me going.
But about seven years into this process, I hit another mini crisis, and this one was more existential. It was a wake up one day and I realized that the work that I was doing was no longer meaningful to me. I didn’t feel like I was bringing a sense of purpose into the world and really helping people.
So, I was at a broker conference. I looked around and said, this is not what I want to be doing with my life. I was exhibiting. Well, I actually left, flew home early, called a business broker, put my business up for sale. It took about a year to do that. But in that process, I reflected on my life.
I said, where has it been hard for me? Where did I need help? And what helped me? If I could help other people find that, I would know that I’d made a difference in the world. So, that’s what led me to Ogimi, to really help people create and sustain a meditation habit for their personal wellbeing.
[00:08:05] Detective Ev: Gotcha. That’s an even better story considering you were exhibiting there too, and then just like, nah, I’m out. This is it. Right? Like, can’t do it anymore.
What I find interesting, and I’ve always found this interesting with anyone who comes on the show, is everyone, typically, no matter what they’re doing now, shares this kind of aha moment or these little wake up calls.
Customizable Meditations: Looking in the Mirror
It sounds like you had a couple. You had the initial one a year into the architecture job, and then another one comes almost 11, 12 years later, at the point when you’re realizing the real estate might not be the thing that you want to be doing either.
My question is, you talked about how you went immediately to a paleo diet, meditating, all this stuff that is not necessarily for most people, even in today’s world, a logical transition. How did you know about that stuff?
[00:08:48] David Gull: In some ways I got lucky with the people around me. I turned to friends in my life. It was just finding the most immediate source of, hey, this person seems healthy, this person seems grounded, and I asked them what they were doing. So, in some ways it was fairly simple.
But for me, it was the obvious need for something to change that actually made it happen. That look in the mirror, so to speak, of recognizing something was wrong and I had to fix it.
[00:09:22] Detective Ev: I’m glad that you had those people in your life. Cause a lot of people, it takes many years before they even consider the dietary aspect of all those things. So, I’m glad it worked. And it worked well enough that you were able to at least survive in the job for the next several years afterwards.
I’m curious about this too, those next several years, I’m sure they were better. Was that something that would’ve been sustainable now indefinitely with your new habits, or was it just a ticking time bomb that had a lot more time to it than it did before?
[00:09:50] David Gull: I think it would’ve been sustainable. Really it was just that after five years, I got excited and interested in entrepreneurship. In the architecture job, it was a large corporate firm. Nothing wrong with that for some people, but to me, I could see the next 40 years of my life where we’re already mapped out if I stayed there and that wasn’t necessarily what I wanted.
[00:10:14] Detective Ev: The reason I asked this is not because I’m trying to encourage people to work crazy hours. I like that personally cause I kind of am that person, that’s my chosen stress, right? I eat super well, I go to bed on time, do all that stuff so that I can engage in the work.
But the reason I was asking that question was more because you just proved the situation was the same, but you changed. And it actually made your response to the stress of the situation better. That is not to say that you weren’t way better off leaving the job. I mean, obviously you’re doing something now that you’re super passionate about. We’re all thankful for that.
But a lot of people that listen to this from a consumer perspective, this podcast, it is sad but very common that because of what they’re going through, they almost get into this victim mentality, or like, what do I do? I can’t leave the job right now, I got bills, I got kids. And that might be true. But what we can do is get better and learn coping mechanisms to handle stuff, which of course is a main focus of today’s chat. So, we need to focus on ourselves first and try to change what we can, what we do have control of.
Customizable Meditations: The Root of Almost Everything
That’s encouraging, and also the perspective on work helps a lot too. A lot of the entrepreneurs I know, like myself, are actually able to sustain long hours a lot of the times. I think it’s because of the perception of the work. Of course, if you go into a place 60 hours a week that you’re not perceiving to be a fun job or something that you actually want to do or you’re passionate about, yeah, it’s going to burn anyone out.
If your perception of your work is this is fun, meaningful, what I would choose to do in my free time, I’m going to be able to do double the amount of hours. Not because I’m special, but because my perception of the work is literally less stressful than someone who has that other perception. So, interesting. I was just curious about how seemingly small changes like that could actually lead to really great outcomes for you.
Then my next question would be why the meditation thing? Because you talked about multiple changes that you made, including diet. Many people become diet specialists, or they will become like Lindy. Before learning about FDN and stuff she did NTA, which is Nutritional Therapy Association, which we love those guys. Great coaching program. So, why not that, why the meditation specifically? What did it do for you?
[00:12:23] David Gull: Yeah. I think throughout my practice I came to realize more and more that our mindset and our inner world is the root of almost everything. What I mean by that is if you think of our health as a three-legged stool of diet, exercise, and mental fitness or meditation, your inner world, which of those can directly impact the others?
Customizable Meditations: Everyone is Different
If you use meditation as a mindset tool to secure your approach to diet, you’re much more likely to succeed. Right? So, if in your daily meditation you reinforce your commitment to a diet, you visualize yourself eating healthy, you visualize yourself in the state and the body that you want, you’re more likely throughout the day to sustain this commitment that you’ve made to yourself for your physical health. And the same goes for exercise.
I think it being kind of the root cause of the root cause or the root benefit of everything that you do is what led me to meditation. But certainly, I’m curious about and have other ideas in the health world.
Yeah, in terms of what we’re doing differently within meditation, as I mentioned, we’re the first AI guided meditation coach. What that means and why it’s different is every meditation on the platform is personalized. And that is essentially like having your own meditation coach. And why that’s important, everyone’s different, right? Everyone has their own unique journey; everyone has their own unique challenges and issues that they’re faced with.
They might be a single mother who’s dealing with raising two kids and stress at work. That person deserves a very specific guided meditation approach. And although meditation is our beachhead for coaching, certainly this technology that we’re building will enable us to do coaching in other aspects of health, so physical fitness and dietary coaching.
Once we’ve kind of really nailed this aspect of how do we take everything we need to know about an individual and start to tailor routines and guidance to them to really succeed at anything that they need to succeed at.
Customizable Meditations: Mindset Matters
[00:14:35] Detective Ev: I think that’s a really fair point.
Going back to my other question about why meditation over anything else, I do agree that it has this wonderfully beneficial effect on almost everything. Because we’ll see certain practitioners and clients alike, they’re really great with the routine of FDN, the diet stuff, and the supplements. In fact, these are normally the people that are the best at that side. They will do every little thing that you sent to them, and they get 80% better.
That last 20% it’s lingering and just doesn’t go away. Then we kind of come to realize that there’s an irony in all of it. The reason that they are so successful in the FDN program is the same reason that right now they’re still struggling with some of that health stuff. They are so Type A wired, like you and I were discussing off air, that they just can’t get out of it.
I was talking to a woman a few months ago and I actually had to refer her out. And I tried to do my best with the onboarding, everything I could, but it was a rare referral out when I had already done lab testing. I’m looking at her labs, her labs actually looked overall great. I’m going back and trying to figure this out and she was able to identify herself.
She’s like, you know what, I never gave myself that time for the mindset stuff and getting this under control. I’m still doing the same toxic habits I had before and now, I just do it with health. So, I think this is a real problem solver, not only for our clients but for some of our practitioners as well. Maybe I’m speaking to myself.
Customizable Meditations: Getting in Touch with the Inside
So, let’s take a second, I don’t want to go too elementary for you here, but I think it’s worth defining this. Cause even on our show, I’m sure there’s some people out there that don’t fully understand meditation, especially when you talk about this aspect of customization. They might be like, wait, how can meditation be customized? I thought it was blank. How do you define meditation? What does that mean?
[00:16:16] David Gull: For the broadest audience, to keep it super simple, sitting with your eyes closed and the impact of that alone is significant. So, what you’re doing when you give yourself time and you sit with your eyes closed is you’re turning off 90% of your stimuli, right?
You’re not turning to your phone, you’re not scrolling Instagram, you’re not looking around, you’re not scoping danger or anything, you’re really just turning off a huge amount of your external stimuli. That allows you to sit with what’s going on internally in your mind. So, in the most basic sense, that’s a huge amount of meditation.
For people that find it intimidating, what I encourage them to do is use our app if you like. But if not, just set a timer for five minutes and sit and close your eyes. Don’t wonder if you’re doing it wrong, just do that. That’s a good place to start.
From there, really what you’re doing is raising a level of awareness of your mind and your thoughts, a level of awareness, getting in touch with your body and what’s happening within your body, a level of external stimulation. So, hearing the sounds around you and all of this again, it’s just kind of bringing you to presence with yourself and with your body.
Customizable Meditations: The Monkey Mind
It’s hugely beneficial to do that because we do spend so much of our time in the day focused on doing and seeing and being productive and reacting. So, this puts you into a different mindset and brain state that’s hugely restorative and hugely beneficial.
[00:18:02] Detective Ev: I love both the general definition, but then this kind of next level one, it’s this awareness of the thoughts and kind of what’s going on.
I totally believe this, do you think that people in today’s world, including ourselves sometimes if we’re not conscious about this, one of the issues for us is the fact that we are so stimulated that we actually never have a chance. I mean, really, almost from the time we wake up to the time we go to bed, to ever have the awareness of those thoughts. You think that’s what a lot of people are suffering with?
[00:18:27] David Gull: Yeah, I think exactly that.
Again, the intimidation factor of this is that people think there’s something they have to do that’s super intense when they meditate. But if they can get it around the fact that just five to ten minutes of this with your eyes closed is beneficial, I think that’s the entry point.
I think in meditation a lot of people use the monkey mind as a really great frame of reference. So, we all have thoughts, right? They run and we call that our monkey mind. If you don’t become aware of your monkey mind, it controls you. If you spend time becoming aware of your monkey mind and training it through meditation, it starts to serve you. That’s a subtle difference but it’s hugely beneficial.
Customizable Meditations: Overstimulated
[00:19:14] Detective Ev: I wanted to word this properly on a show like this cause we never bring up this topic. What I find interesting about this, and hear me out if you’re listening, I’m not going to mention anything specific, I’m talking from a very general perspective.
I’m seeing the repercussions of this in a lot of political discussions. What I mean is that I’m someone who’s mostly independent, no problem saying that, so I actually go out of my way to try to study both sides. I’m like, why does this person think this? And why does this person over here think that?
What’s fascinating to me, David, is I’ve seen Instagram accounts where I’ll just use United States politics. You have the right and the left. We got the Republicans and the Democrats, generally speaking. That’s the two-party system here. You know, you hear both sides screaming at each other. They cannot believe what the other side is doing. And I’m always fascinated by this.
I go onto these certain Instagram accounts and YouTube accounts, and I realize that there are interviewers that interview one particular side. This happens in both places. And they’ll ask the people at a respective rally, let’s say, of either side’s candidate of the day what they might think about something. You hear the answers, and the answers are sometimes ridiculous. Like it really does make the people almost seem dumb.
Now I don’t believe that, but it makes them seem that way. And if that’s all you’re seeing in your feed and you only trust the one side, of course these people hate the other side cause they’re never going to go look at both. If you heard this, you would actually think it’s ridiculous.
Customizable Meditations: Stealing our Time
My point in attaching to this cause we’ve seen more political issues than ever before over my lifetime. I think what’s happening is, we are so stimulated we never take the time to think. So, the first thing that we hear, whether it’s politics or whatever topic, we assume that’s right, everyone else is wrong.
And it’s not that these people are dumb. I don’t believe that in these videos. Unfortunately, they get framed in that way because of who’s interviewing them. But they’re not dumb. They just have never had a second to sit down and think about the narrative they’re being told or why do they even have the opinions that they have. Do they actually hate the other side, or do they just disagree on a couple of things?
I won’t frame that as a question cause I won’t put you on the spot politically, but I really do believe that maybe our lack of thought in taking a second to sit is one of the reasons that we’re so hostile with each other over major things. We should be discussing politics, not hating each other because of it, in my opinion.
Maybe I will frame it as a question. Do you agree with what I said? Do you think it has any validity from a general perspective?
[00:21:38] David Gull: Yeah. I think it’s a really interesting framing. And I think you’ve nailed something really important, which is the consumption on social media, right? It’s literally those apps are intended to get you to just spend time on them, right? What that does is take away from time where you’re actually sitting there thinking or having a conversation with a friend where you’re actually creating a dialogue around a topic instead of just consuming that information.
Customizable Meditations: Habit-Switcher
I am glad you mentioned social media because one of the things that we try to recommend at Ogimi is use social media as a trigger for your mindfulness habit.
So, if you catch yourself on social media, use that as a trigger to instead open a meditation or mindfulness app, hopefully Ogimi. But that’s really where you can start to replace one habit with another one. Once you’re there, exactly to your point, if you want to, you can dedicate that time towards thought about a particular topic.
Again, the cool part about what we’re doing is you could prompt our meditation coach for something to say, help me be thoughtful about this particular political argument. You can literally write whatever you want there. What we’ll do is just create a baseline for you to say, hey, here’s my thoughts, here’s where I might need to challenge them. It could be a really effective way to give yourself that time to think.
That’s personally what I do. I have two triggers with social media. One is physical exercise. So, every time I catch myself on Instagram, I make myself do 30 pushups. Or I make myself do a five-minute mindfulness session. Those are the two, let’s call it, like, it’s not a punishment, so to speak, but it’s a replacement.
[00:23:40] Detective Ev: A healthy replacement.
This is interesting cause now I’m excited to talk about the actual application of your app and how this works. Because I’m already thinking, man, from the political side, if people actually are willing to plug that stuff in, you could save the fricking world if people actually had the time.
Where to Find Ogimi
I mean, I encourage you guys, if nothing else today, please just actually think about why someone else might have a different religion or political affiliation than you without assuming that they’re bad. Let’s think about why they might have gotten there, how they might have gotten there. That could help. And if apps like this can encourage it, I think that’s even more powerful.
So, let’s break this down. How literally does this work? Let’s assume that we’re now talking to the person, cause this is probably the case for the majority of the audience, the person who is a little more advanced, they’ve messed around with meditation. We even have avid meditators in the FDN community and for our clients. So, how would this work? I download this somewhere, or I get this somewhere, and then what does this look like for me?
[00:24:32] David Gull: You can find us at ogimi.ai. That will link you directly into the app. It’s free to use with certain limitations. Then for a paid upgrade, it’s unlimited use.
But really what happens once you’re in the app is, it’s essentially like having your own personal meditation coach. That’s the idea. We believe that everyone deserves some kind of affordable access to personalized care. And before AI, this was difficult to do at scale because it’s expensive to hire a meditation coach, or it’s expensive to hire a life coach or a personal development coach, right?
Someone might charge you $100, $200 an hour for those types of service. You might meet with them once a week. And then you have seven days to go mess everything up in your life again before you meet with them the next time. Not that those coaches don’t add value, but it’s expensive.
Customizable Meditations: Precise Support
Again, it’s not constant care. It’s not like having someone in your pocket that they will always be available to help you. Really that’s our vision is, in your pocket, you have someone that’s there for you at any point in time.
What that means within the app is, you open it up, we say, what do you want help with right now? And based on what you tell us you want help with, we generate a custom meditation. There’s a lot of magic that goes into that. I think it sounds simple, but again, from the user perspective, you shouldn’t even need to know that it’s AI. You should just feel like you’re getting the exact support that you need in that moment for your challenge.
It can be anything from fun and inspiring. I personally like to use it, I play sports. The other night I sat in the parking lot before my ice hockey game and did a meditation, visualizing, scoring a hat trick. Now I didn’t score a hat trick, but I did score one goal. That was super fun.
The other day I spoke to a user who used it to process going through a divorce. Basically, they were losing their home. It was a very difficult time. They just told the app, hey, I need help. I’m losing my home in a divorce to my ex-husband. Can you help me process this? The guided meditation was loving kindness. If the users know what that is, it’s a process of sending love to yourself.
Customizable Meditations: Be Specific
So, she sent herself love for the challenge that she was going through in her life. And then she sent love to her home and all the memories and all the value that it had added to her life. Then she sent love to her ex-husband, which was, of course, the most difficult part of the meditation, but recognizing him as a human with his own challenges and everything else. It was very powerful for this person to have that generated for her in real time based on this challenge that she was going through.
It can be something at work. It could be, hey, I need help dealing with my difficult coworker, John. Every time we talk about my ideas for the app, we get into an argument. It can help you go through how to sort of see John’s side. This is similar to the political argument, see John’s side, see if you’re having a balanced conversation, be more productive in how you present your ideas.
So, all of these different things. Again, it comes back to what do you need help with today, be specific. And that’s what we do.
[00:27:54] Detective Ev: This is so cool. So, to make sure I have this understanding correct, if I’m not mistaken, you use the words you can say to it. Are you literally suggesting that I take the phone, I’m not even writing this out, I’m telling it verbally what I want to do? And then the customization aspect, I’m assuming these are guided meditations, obviously, otherwise, I don’t know what would be custom about it. So, this is actually using words or at least putting things out there every now and then to guide this meditation.
Customizable Meditations: Text to Speech AI Voice
[00:28:22] David Gull: So, for now the input is text. But it will definitely be voice as you suggested.
And just to reiterate that simple example, like the text that you might type into the app is, help me process the loss of my home to my ex-husband. And then what happens is AI generates a script based on our instructions from our AI model. Then we have what’s called a text to speech AI voice that reads that out in a guided meditation fashion with the intonation and the pacing that you would want for a guided meditation.
[00:29:04] Detective Ev: I remember a kind of a profound thing for me. The first time I ever consciously meditated, and I say consciously because I would assume prior to this day I had at least had some experiences where I closed my eyes and just sat there probably trying to go to bed. If that’s going to be the lowest level of meditation, yeah, we’ve all done that at some point intentionally or not. The first time I intentionally, I should say, instead of consciously, meditated, was 11th grade. It’s ironic looking back.
I know you don’t know my story, but I’m very transparent about it on the show. I mean, severe mental health issues was using drugs. And I think what happened that night, if I’m not mistaken, is I actually didn’t have the drugs and I couldn’t sleep without them. So, I looked up, something triggered this guided meditation on YouTube, and it was The Honest Guys. They still have a channel to this day. Awesome folks there. And it worked, it really worked well. I kind of got this warm feeling too which I hadn’t gotten every single time since then.
Customizable Meditations: Audience Feedback is Encouraged
But I’ve gotten it plenty of times where this is a very pleasant feeling. I feel good. That would be a nice thing to have right now. And life is going overall, thankfully, pretty well right now, let alone back then. That was a genuine time of peace to be able to experience that. So, that was some random thing I found on YouTube, older audio files, not nearly the quality that we have today.
It’s incredible to look at this roughly 10, 11 years later and now we can text in what we’re having struggles with, and an AI program is going to be able to formulate this for us. It is able to formulate this for us so that it’s custom.
I don’t mean to ask this in a negative way. It’s just I always try to assume what the audience would say. Are the AI voices realistic enough that if you played it for me without me knowing it’s AI, would I have an idea? Or have you guys been able to do well enough with this that it sounds actually pretty realistic? Because that might, I guess, be distracting to some. But I’m wondering how you guys have done with that.
[00:30:55] David Gull: Yeah. The voices are amazing. And, of course, I love the audience feedback if they do use the app. There’s a feedback utility right in there to leave it. But I think you’ll be blown away. For any of the audience that is following AI I’m sure they also see that the rate of improvement is sort of exponential. Even if you could say, hey, today maybe it is 95% as good as a human voice, the rate at which it will get even better is sort of mind blowing.
Customizable Meditations: Human Intelligence Leveraged Through Computers
The other cool thing, maybe anticipating again what the audience might ask about AI is, it’s a computer, does it really know this human aspect of things?
What I’d like to touch on is that AI is actually the collective knowledge of human intelligence and wisdom, right? So, all of human history that’s been written, at least, and including of course the massive amounts of written stuff on the internet, is what created the foundation for AI. So, it’s not computer intelligence, it’s human intelligence that’s being leveraged through the power of computers.
[00:32:07] Detective Ev: Yeah. It’s fascinating to think about. Oh my gosh, man, we can go on for hours with this. But there’s someone that I follow that talked about AI in a different way. And they’re always trying to encourage us to be as good as we can as humans because they had this exact same perspective. It’s an accurate one. It’s like, no, it’s not artificial. Like, it is us in a sense, right? We’re the ones that are feeding this, so we need to be careful about how we’re interacting with the world and the things that we’re saying.
Then you go on social media and it’s one of the worst places in terms of how people talk to each other. So, it’s an extra reminder to just show love to people. Or if you don’t have anything nice to say, that’s fine, but just don’t say it at all because AI is watching. So, thank God you’re using this for good and really helping people out.
Customizable Meditations: Instantly, Immediately, for Zero Cost
And then, you know what David, it’s not exclusive to our audience at all. We have had a bunch of different religious affiliations on. But I’ve always been surprised, it does seem there’s a lot of Christians that listen to this show. I’m a born again Christian, myself. I have no problem with any other religion. I was an atheist most of my life.
My point in mentioning that, that I find so unique about yours, is whether this is true or not true, a lot of people that are religious or get into religion somehow believe that meditation is not in alignment with what they’re doing. Despite, I mean, I can speak for the Bible at least. Scripture says meditate on this. We can all agree that it at least says meditate on that.
So, what’s cool about your app is, I could go in and on text, say, hey, I want to meditate, like, I don’t know if it would interpret this, or I’d have to write it out. Like, could I say I want to meditate on John 3:16 in the Bible? Would it already know that, or would I have to write it out? Either way, it would allow me to meditate on that, right?
[00:33:43] David Gull: That’s exactly it. I’m so glad you came up with such a specific example.
Again, everyone deserves that level of attention to whatever in their life is most important to them at that moment. But imagine trying to find a meditation coach that could help you meditate on that verse. The fact is, because we have the collective knowledge of human intelligence in AI, you can now find that instantly, immediately, for essentially zero cost. That’s what’s super exciting about it.
Customizable Meditations: Customizing It to Yourself
You could say, create a meditation to help me deepen my connection to God, if that’s your religion and that’s what you want to focus on. So, yeah, that’s the beautiful aspect of it is whatever you want, you can get.
[00:34:32] Detective Ev: Listen, I really am huge into spirituality, I like it. And I know that we all live in our bubbles, but I do think that matters to a lot of people out there, especially if they’re doing stuff like this. So, some of the stuff that they maybe learned when they were a kid, it could be contradictory. And I get that certain practices could be contradictory. Fine. I don’t think meditation should be exclusive to any one religious group or whatever. Again, most scriptures that I’m aware of actually say meditate. They just say meditate on specific things.
The coolest part about this as advanced technologically as it is, which you think would be counterproductive to the religious side. No, this is actually perfect for it because now you can customize it to yourself. So, thanks for that point. I think that’s really cool.
How have you seen consumers using this? Because I can picture us as practitioners, like a lot of, again, practitioners listen, I could see them almost wanting to assign this or give this to their clients. Do you guys do more selling to practitioners and people that will work with others or is it a lot of direct-to-consumer stuff?
Customizable Meditations: Simple Subscription Model
[00:35:31] David Gull: Yeah, that’s a great question.
The app launched D: to C: but we’re just rolling out all of our collaborations with coaches. So, basically, yeah, the way that we think about this is it’ll allow them to 10x the impact that they can have on their stance. Even though you could go directly to us for that request, if you still want to work with a professional, have that kind of weekly touchpoint with them where you hop on a zoom for an hour, they walk you through the practice.
But then for, again, the other six days where you might go mess it up, which is kind of my ongoing joke about what happens between coaching calls, cause I do it too, is they can then assign them meditations using Ogimi that are personalized or coach them on how to use it in a way. So, hey, for the next six days, why don’t you try this, this, this, this, this, and this. And then next week we’ll talk about how that went for you. Then we can go further. So, those coach collaborations are going to be really, really impactful.
[00:36:33] Detective Ev: Very cool. So, if I’m a consumer or a client, or maybe I’m just a practitioner that wants to just give it to one client, maybe that’s what I want to do, what is the current cost on the time of recording this? Is it like a subscription model? How does that work?
[00:36:46] David Gull: It’s a super simple subscription model. And again, it is free to use without that just with certain limitations. But yeah, if you choose to upgrade, it’s just $9.99 a month and then we’re going to have a $99 annual plan launching soon as well.
Customizable Meditations: Keeping it Super Affordable
So, using the traditional analogy, it’s less than two coffees per month or less than two lattes at Starbucks. Really our goal is to help as many people as possible and to keep it super affordable for folks out there.
[00:37:14] Detective Ev: Yeah. Well, with our crew and how much they spend on labs and supplements, don’t worry. That was the least shocking price tag I’ve ever heard on this podcast in 240 episodes. So, you’re good to go. They’re like, oh yeah, I’ll buy it right now.
All right. Just to be clear then, I think you said this in the beginning, and I had read this in the description, so this is the only meditation app right now on the market that is currently using AI in this way?
[00:37:38] David Gull: Yes, exactly.
[00:37:41] Detective Ev: Wow. Just from the entrepreneurial perspective, I gotta ask. And I know it seems off topic, it’s really not because a lot of our practitioners are entrepreneurs and they sometimes struggle with that, so they just might find it inspiring.
How on earth did you get that idea? When did you make that connection? Cause that’s kind of brilliant, man. That’s a really interesting thing and it’s a really unique way to enter a market that is otherwise kind of saturated. There’s a bunch of apps out there, but this is new, this is fresh, and it’s interesting. So, how’d you come up with the idea?
[00:38:06] David Gull: Actually, previous to the AI powered meditations, I was starting to build a meditation app that was just going to use elements of gamification to make it fun and exciting and interesting. We actually were using AI to author scripts that we were then having a human record.
Customizable Meditations: Ogimi’s Ultimate Goal
It was just kind of this light bulb moment where, again, a really high-quality text-to-speech podcast came out where they had cloned Joe Rogan’s voice, I think, and Elon Musk and they were having a conversation. But it was all AI generated. And when I heard the quality of it, it was that light bulb moment of, oh my God, we’re there. We don’t need a human to read this script, we have the ability to do it that way. And so that was quickly the impetus. We moved very quickly to launch.
And, of course as you pointed out, in an entrepreneurship, I’m certain there will be competitors very soon. Nobody gets away with no competitors. But for us, we have a very clear strategic roadmap on how to continually improve our product, how to expand it beyond its core current features. Really, it’s also just about the community and bringing the right folks into the app and those partnerships with coaches, health coaches, personal development coaches, and everything else.
Ultimately our goal here is to reach as many people as possible, a billion people. If we can help them create and sustain a meditation and mindfulness habit, we know we’ve made the world a better place.
[00:39:40] Detective Ev: That’s excellent. And yeah, you’re right, there’s always going to be competition. But to do that first, I mean, that’s pretty groundbreaking stuff.
I’m a little scared now because if they can mimic Joe Rogan and Elon Musk that well, well, I’m a curve ball. I don’t know if AI’s going to get me that well. But they probably will given enough time. Hopefully people want the real Detective Evan, not the AI version, we’ll see.
Customizable Meditations: Consumer Testimonials
Jokes aside, I like to always spend the last bit of time talking about what I would typically consider client testimonials, but this would be more consumer testimonials. So, I’m curious, cause you have that feedback place that people can submit feedback, have you heard any great stories out of people that maybe struggled with meditation before and are now having great success with the app or whatever it might be? I’m curious about some of the testimonials that have come through.
[00:40:22] David Gull: It’s super exciting. That’s the juice that keeps me going. Anytime someone just says, this is amazing, this really helped me, or I was on YouTube for hours trying to find some content and I found you instead and it’s changed my approach to meditation. People saying, I’ve been a meditator for five years, and I was super skeptical, but I tried it and I’m actually blown away. We’ve had really great feedback.
I had a user interview that hopefully someday I’ll have a chance to record something like this with him because the conversation I had with him left me in tears. It was just inspiring. His name was Wayne Adams, and he basically had terminal brain cancer. He found meditation, not through Ogimi, but he has been alive for five years beyond the one month that the doctors gave him. And meditation is what kept him strong, kept his mindset.
When I was speaking with him, he said, my wife referred me over to Ogimi. When she saw it, she said, this will be perfect for you. He just was telling me his story. He’s been spending anywhere from one to three hours a day meditating on the platform. For him, it’s the core of how he addresses his personal struggle.
Customizable Meditations: Refueling the Charge
Yeah, that conversation was enough fuel for me to charge through the next couple of weeks of what’s obviously a difficult process when you’re running a startup. You’re always running into challenges, hurdles, doubts, and everything else. But just to hear the impact that we were having on one man’s life was incredible.
[00:41:56] Detective Ev: That’s amazing. You hear that even just one time, I’m not going to lie, that’s maybe above on par with some of the stories that we hear here. That’s incredible.
It’s actually fascinating cause when I was in my more exploratory phase of religions and spirituality, I went to a Buddhist monastery years ago. One of the things that I found incredible; these guys literally live in a state of meditation for almost the entire day. They don’t talk, they never talk. It is all walking meditations. It’s under that gentleman who had passed away, Thich Nhat Hanh. It’s incredible stuff.
The reason I bring them up and him up is because, I know that you’re not making that claim so I’m not putting words in your mouth, but I find it interesting that this gentleman was given one month to live and here for several years afterwards, that’s pretty impressive. That’s not a small number by any means.
And what I found fascinating about those guys, and even Thich Nhat Hanh’s passing is these people that do this for long periods of time, and these people that are living it, they like choose when they’re going to pass away. Thich Nhat Hanh told the whole world, hey, my time is coming. He had all these people gather. I mean, this is weeks that this went on. And then decided, okay, I’m good to go. I’m like, what?
Customizable Meditations: Extending Life
That is just not what you are used to, that’s not what you grow up hearing for most of us at least. It’s not that we don’t die, but the idea that these people have such a deep understanding of their own body and their own thoughts or whatever that they can say, oh yeah, my time is coming. Come join me, and then I’ll decide when I check out. That’s incomprehensible to a lot of us, certainly myself.
But I would have to imagine, yeah, that a lot of what you guys are doing did lead to this guy having any life, I guess at that point is great, but a greatly extended life so far with what’s going on. That’s amazing.
For the last question before I ask where people can find you, just to reemphasize it, cause I know we said it in the beginning, and of course they can always find it in the show notes, but what are some of the more recent studies showing on meditation? Because I feel like all of us, at some point, maybe it’s on Facebook and you get like a link to Google or somewhere it says meditation does this, meditation does that. But I know there’s legitimate promising stuff coming up all the time.
So, what are some of those things that you’ve seen? Maybe it’s mental health stuff, ADHD, anxiety, what’s some of the latest research showing promise for with meditation?
Customizable Meditations: Prioritizing Health
[00:44:13] David Gull: Just so that I don’t misspeak, I’m not going to say any specific statistics.
What I will say is the more you look at, especially the meta studies that just look in aggregate the benefits of meditation, the more you understand it, the more you see it, the more you realize that to not include it in your practice is a serious detriment to your health.
I don’t really know how else to say it other than kind of that three-legged stool analogy again, about diet, exercise, and mental fitness. Meditation is, by far, one of the best tools for your mental fitness. And when you address that, you can also address these other aspects of your life. It’s just such a core foundational element to your health.
And obviously your listeners know, if you don’t have your health, what’s the point of everything else? Right? What’s the point of your success and your wealth. If you’re in pain or you’re sick or you’re dying, nothing else matters.
Again, I come across it all the time, there is resistance to meditation. The resistance typically is, I don’t have time. And the response to that is, could you replace five to ten minutes of social media time or TV with meditation? Are you willing to give yourself that gift for your health? That’s really what I want to encourage people to do.
[00:45:40] Detective Ev: Amazing. I heard this in a personal development book when I first started getting on my journey like nine years ago, my journey into personal development and just bettering myself, I guess. It said an adult saying they don’t have enough time is the adult equivalent of saying, the dog ate my homework.
Customizable Meditations: It’s an Investment
It’s not that some of us aren’t busy. I’m not discrediting that, but at least say it correctly. Say, I don’t have time for that. Cause you certainly have time, but you’re choosing to not make it for something.
And this is so simple in terms of the time commitment, the idea that you are so optimized that you don’t even have five to ten minutes is crazy. You’d be, mentioning him again, Elon Musk level. And you might as well be making billions of dollars if you’re going to be that optimized with your time. So, I think we all have some five to ten minutes.
I might even make the argument that you don’t have time not to do it. You should be doing this because it’s going to make everything else more efficient. So, it’s kind of an investment. It’s just like the health stuff, right? We don’t all go to bed on time here and eat super well just to have the rest of our life suffer. We do that so the rest of our life is better. I would put it right in the same category. I like the three-legged stool analogy in this case.
So, David, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find you and get this downloaded? I love that they can use some of the features for free. I’m going to give it a try myself, I’m excited.
[00:46:49] David Gull: Awesome. Love it. Yeah. So, everyone can just go to ogimi.ai and direct to sign up through there.
Conclusion – 20% Discount
Then I’d also love to offer the listeners a 20% discount on the paid plan. So, anyone that wants to upgrade to that, they can use the code all caps, HEALTHDETECTIVE20 and that way they can get in there and try out the whole feature set.
[00:47:16] Detective Ev: Nice. I think that’s fair enough.
Yeah, thank you again for coming on. This is really a unique episode. I’m really excited about what you’re doing and congrats on having that thought. It seems simple in concept, but I think that’s very impressive to connect those two together. I’m excited to see what you guys do.
[00:47:30] David Gull: Appreciate you, appreciate the time and the great questions. Really enjoyed this conversation.
Colloidal silver is known for its healing benefits. I’ve been using colloidal silver for 13 years now. It’s a little not-so-secret “secret” I’ve been using for the main things: gut transformation and restoration, eye cream and immunity boost.
If you don’t know about colloidal silver yet, you must. It’s naturally found in mushrooms, soil and breast milk. It’s known for its powerful immune-boosting functions, and nature has a funny way of providing it to us as soon as we are born into this world and in the form of our mother’s breast milk! Fascinating I know!
The soil has changed, and some of us don’t eat mushrooms so we don’t naturally consume colloidal silver which is why a brand called Sovereign Silver exists. They are the superior brand for colloidal silver, which you can take as a nasal spray or spray under the tongue for instant immune boosting. They also make a first-aid gel that you can apply to bruises, cuts, and burns. Here is a fun fact – did you know that if you get a burn, anywhere in the world, from every hospital in the world, they will apply colloidal silver to your skin? Why do they do this? Because it is the fastest way to heal and regenerate the skin! How incredible is that? Once I learned this I thought hang on, if it regenerates the skin when we consume it heals our insides, our organs such as the stomach and gut. And then I thought wait a minute, what about a beauty skincare regime with the gel? So I started applying the Sovereign Silver gel to my eyes since 2010. To be completely honest with you I’ve never had a skincare regime except for this: Sovereign Silver gel and a bentonite clay mask once every two months. My skin has been fresh and clear because of just these two things along with my diet. And I used to have acne and acne scars. Now I’ve started a skincare routine just this year of a cleanser, exfoliant and toner. My skin has never felt better or looked as fresh and I’m 36 now. The proof is in the pudding.
So I’m writing this blog because I’m so excited that Sovereign Silver have finally launched their NEW Natural Healing Gel!
Why you’ll love it:
Their Homeopathic Skin Care Gel is dermatologist and clinically tested specifically for irritation and skin sensitivity.
It’s a natural alternative to conventional skin care treatments.
Using the power of nature, it relieves, soothes, and accelerates the healing of the skin and tissue from eruptions of acne, eczema, razor burn, sunburn, and more.
Minimize scarring: Helps protect the skin and reduce scar formation.
Accelerate healing: Helps speed up the skin’s natural healing process.
Ease inflammation: Combats minor skin infections, allowing minor cuts, bumps, burns, and irritations to heal.
Reduce redness: Calms inflammation, reducing swelling, redness, and pain associated with minor skin sores.
It’s GMO-free, gluten-free, allergen-free and vegan
The ingredients are simple: Argentum Metallicum (metallic silver) 10x, 20x, 30x HPUS
Purpose
It’s a topical antiseptic/analgesic / anti-inflammatory
If you have acne, eczema, psoriasis, razor burn, sunburn, do microneedling or just need soothing and an anti-aging routine, then this is for you! It’s worth a try! Like I said, the proof is in the pudding. Follow the skin care plan and regime that I used and have shared with all my clients.
youPre-order now and receive…. discount by using my code: EARTHDIET
Have you noticed that we’re becoming increasingly health-conscious, collectively?
Healthy foods, products, and habits are all on the rise, compared to years past.
Which means greater demand for health coaches as people begin prioritizing their health. In fact the global field of health coaching has grown to be worth over 7 billion in recent years, and it shows no sign of slowing down!
There really couldn’t be a better time to start a career as a health coach. Especially as people move away from conventional medicine & embrace cash-pay models in record numbers, making it easier to grow your own online health coaching business.
But, how do you figure out which health coaching program is right for you?
It’s a common question we get from potential students!
So today we’re going to look at three top health coaching certification programs, and how they compare to our functional practitioner certification course.
Because when it comes down to it…we want you to choose the program that’s best for YOU.
If that’s us, great! But if not, we want to steer you in the right direction.
All of the programs we’ll review today are 100% virtual (no in-person requirements), making them accessible & convenient to almost anyone!
There are many health coaching programs on the market, but today we’re going to focus on:
Institute of Integrative Nutrition (IIN)
Functional Medicine Coaching Academy (FMCA)
Health Coach Institute (HCI)
But first, allow us to introduce ourselves in case we haven’t met before!
We’re Functional Diagnostic Nutrition (FDN)
We offer a 6-month practitioner certification course that provides students with everything they need to transform people’s lives using the power of functional lab testing + highly personalized diet & lifestyle protocols.
As pioneers in the field of functional lab testing, we give you the expertise you need to determine which lab tests to order, and how to interpret the results so you can create highly-effective protocols to help your clients overcome chronic health problems.
And, equally as important, we provide you access to order these functional tests upon graduation, even without a license. Yes, anybody (including you!) can order functional testing through our Medical Director Program upon graduating.
Last, but certainly not least, we teach you how to build a thriving online wellness practice so you can make a living doing what you love.
Estimated Time Commitment: 3-6 Hours / Week (depending on pace)
Investment: $8,997; payment plans starting from $313/month
Access to Functional Labs for Clients: Yes, anyone (even unlicensed graduates) can order functional tests for their clients through the Medical Director Program.
Mentorship: Yes, 6 Sessions With a Program Mentor to Role Play
Other Support: 8-10 Live Calls / Month (optional) & Facebook Group
+ access to Founder, Reed Davis, on one call per week!
Now that we’ve laid the details of our program, you’re probably wondering:
“What makes this different from other health coaching programs?”
Health Coach Certification Programs vs. FDN Practitioner Certification.
While we don’t refer to our practitioner certification course as a “health coaching program”, we do see it as a strong alternative to other health coaching programs on the market!
Why?
Simple – it provides you with the expertise you need to effectively address virtually any chronic health conditions out there.
The overall goal is the same across all health certification programs: to provide you with the expertise & skills you need to help people live healthier lives.
But we teach you to do that by performing a root-cause investigation using functional testing, whereas most health coaching programs focus more heavily on coaching strategies such as positive psychology, for example.
To decide which is a better fit for you, you’ll want to think about whether you prefer operating your own independent practice & running your health investigations, or if you’d prefer partnering with another clinician who handles lab testing & analysis.
Both paths are available to you, at similar price points!
Let’s have a look at three well-known health coaching programs and see how they stack up.
Health Coaching Certifications | Program Comparisons
The IIN program covers a variety of subjects including nutrition, lifestyle medicine and functional medicine. Similar to FDN, they embrace bio-individuality, teaching that everyone’s needs are different and what works for one person won’t necessarily work for another. Throughout the program, they help you “develop your personal approach to life and health coaching that honors your unique body, and how to apply this approach with others to spark their own transformation.”
IIN health coaching program, at-a-glance:
Program Duration: 6-12 Months (two tracks to choose from)
Estimated Time Commitment: 5-6 Hours / Week (depending on pace)
Mentorship: No, role playing sessions with peers only
Fun fact: Several of our graduates completed the IIN health coaching program before coming to FDN.
Here’s what Kristin Thomas, FDN-P, had to say:
“I had already completed the Institute for Integrative Nutrition (IIN) health coach certification, but it was clear to me that FDN had another layer of knowledge that would benefit my clients.”
Another well-respected health coaching program is the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy (FMCA). FMCA “prepares you to connect meaningfully with clients and partner effectively with practitioners.”
If you’re not looking to get into the nitty-gritty of testing & lab analysis yourself, this program may be the perfect fit for you. They teach you specifically how to partner with doctors & practitioners who are trained in functional medicine.
The program covers topics such as: the art & science of coaching, mind-body medicine, functional nutrition & positive psychology.
FMCA health coaching program, at-a-glance:
Program Duration: 12 Months
Estimated Time Commitment: 8-10 Hours / Week (depending on pace)
Investment: Early Bird $7779, Standard $9779
Access to Functional Labs for Clients: No
Certificate Awarded / Title: Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach (FMCHC)
Mentorship: No mentoring sessions advertised
HCI prepares you to “become a Health, Life, or Nutrition Coach”. They offer two primary tracks, one with dual certification as a Health Coach & Life Coach, and the other which prepares you to be a Nutrition Coach.
The dual certification prepares you to help others thrive on a holistic level across five key areas of life: health, money, love & relationships, career, and spirituality.
HCI health coaching program, at-a-glance:
Program Duration: 6 Months
Estimated Time Commitment: 5-6 Hours / Week (depending on pace)
Investment: $6,950
Access to Functional Labs for Clients: No
Certificate Awarded / Title: Dual Health & Life Coach or Nutrition Coach
Mentorship: Students are assigned an “Empowerment Coach” that can help answer questions & address roadblocks.
Three Important Questions to Ask Yourself Before Deciding on a Health Coaching Certification Program.
1. Do you have a desire to run your own wellness business?
If you’d prefer to run your own business (as opposed to working for a clinic or doctor), having access to functional testing is a major benefit!
It allows you to offer more comprehensive services & higher value to your clients, so be sure to factor this in when making your decision.
And take note about how much business development support is available to you as a graduate. It’s a lot of work to start & grow a wellness practice, so having someone to show you the ropes is a major game-changing benefit.
FDN offers ongoing business development support to graduates for only $99/quarter.
2. Which do you enjoy more? The investigative nature of running functional lab tests & analyzing the results, or supporting clients through accountability, encouragement & positive psychology?
If you prefer the investigative nature of running labs & cracking the case for your clients, you should definitely consider looking for a program that trains you in how to interpret functional labs, and provides you access to order the labs upon graduation.
That’s our specialty at FDN!
3. What are your income goals as a health coach / practitioner?
If you’re interested in a particular program, look up some of the graduates online. If they’re running their own businesses now, what are they charging? Also, don’t hesitate to ask program advisors what the income range is for graduates of their program. It’s going to vary by location, but they should be able to provide a general range for you.
Keep in mind that the ability to offer functional testing to your future clients is going to massively increase the amount you can charge for your services. Most of our graduates offer high-ticket transformational programs, many that equate to $150-$200+/hr.
Still Have Questions About Choosing The Right Health Coaching Certification Program?
So…you’re shopping around for a health coaching certification program?
Yessss – we get so excited when people decide to become health coaches!
And we know your head is probably FULL of questions, right?!
Questions like:
How much can I expect to make?
What would my day-to-day job look like?
Is this really going to work for me?
How much is all the training going to cost?
There are lots of factors at play when trying to answer the questions above, but one of the biggest is the education & training you choose.
Why?
Because your education & training greatly impact:
what services you’re qualified to provide
how much you can charge
who you work with, and
how much flexibility you have in your work
So…what does this mean for you??
It means that choosing the right training program is critical!
Which is exactly why we’ve dedicated an entire blog post to it.
Our goal with today’s post is to help you understand what’s available so that you can make the best possible decision for you & your family.
Here’s what we’ll cover:
The “gold standard” of health coach certification
A very appealing alternative to consider
How to decide what’s right for you
Let’s get to it!
The Gold Standard in Health Coaching Certification
The National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC) is considered the “gold standard” when it comes to getting board certified as a health coach.
We say that primarily because it’s the most well-known & popular option. Butttt, as you read through this blog post, keep in mind that just because something is popular, doesn’t mean it’s the best path for you.
Our goal is to help you understand your options!
So, let’s chat about it.
Health Coaching Certification Through NBHWC
Established in 2012, National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC) works to advance the health coaching profession. One of their roles is to vet all the popular & emerging health coaching programs on the market & choose which ones they want to acreddit (e.g. approve).
If you’ve completed a program that has been approved by NBHWC, then you’re eligible to sit for their board exam. Since launching the exam in 2016, over 7,000 coaches have obtained the credential as a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach (NBC-HWC)1.
3-Steps to Health Coaching Certification Through NBHWC.
If you decide to become certified, you’ve got 3 steps:
Complete a training program approved by NBHWC, such as:
Institute for Integrative Nutrition (IIN)
Health Coach Institute (HCI) and
Functional Medicine Coaching Academy (FMCA)
Complete 50 health coaching sessions that meet their criteria
Have an associates degree (or higher), OR at least 4,000 hours of work experience
Once you’ve got those covered, you can apply for the board exam, which has a $100 application fee and $400 exam fee (fees quoted as of 2023). After passing the exam, you are required to complete 36 hours of continuing education credits every 3 years to maintain your certification.
So, what does this particular health coaching certification do for you?
In a nutshell, it shows future clients & employers that you’ve completed some high-quality training & education.
All sounds pretty good right?
But don’t stop there because there is another juicy option to consider!
An Attractive Alternative to Health Coaching Certification
If you haven’t heard of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition (FDN) before, we’re glad you’ve landed here!
FDN has over 4,000 graduates worldwide and is well-respected within the functional medicine & holistic health communities.
The name “Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner (FDN-P)” is a mouthful (we get it lol), butttt basically it means that you are a functional health practitioner.
In fact, many FDN graduates refer to themselves as a “Functional Health Coach”, and for the most part, you get to choose what you call yourself. The important thing to note however is that as an FDN-P, you have more advanced skills than your average health coach.
Yes…even those with the gold standard NBHWC seal of approval!
FDN practitioners specialize in using functional testing to help pinpoint the root causes behind people’s symptoms, and they’re really good at it! But it doesn’t stop there. Once they have the test results, they create data-driven diet & lifestyle protocols to help people address their symptoms & reclaim their health.
FDN practitioners are given highly specialized training that sets them apart from other health coaches, and allows them to launch + grow successful online wellness practices.
The truth is, many students who have already completed other health coaching certification programs come to FDN because they realize they want more in-depth training & education.
Now… we know what you might be thinking:
“This is going to take forever!!”
Complete an approved health coaching program
Get board certified through NBHWC
Get advanced training through FDN
But guess what??
You have the option of skipping right over steps #1 & #2, and coming straight to FDN!
This surprises most people because they assume we have a bunch of prerequisites!
But the truth is, FDN Founder Reed Davis, has intentionally kept the prerequisites to a minimum because he’s so passionate about getting this knowledge out to anyone with a strong desire to learn.
In order to enroll in the FDN certification course, all you need is:
1. a genuine desire to help people heal
2. an interest in holistic health
That’s really it!
The course takes about 6 months for most people to complete, but you’re able to take up to 12 months if you need extra time. Once you graduate, you will have the title Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner, FDN-P.
Becoming an FDN-P sets you apart from other health coaches for many reasons, so let’s take a closer look at that.
Health Coaching Certification vs. FDN Practitioner Certification
We touched on this above, but to recap:
FDN provides more in-depth training than your average health coaching certification program.
As an FDN-P, you can:
Order functional testing (independently, without a doctor involved)
Analyze test results (with access to a program mentor for help)
Create your own custom protocols based on those test results
An NBHWC health coach cannot order functional tests unless they work under another practitioner or physician.
As an FDN-P, you act as a true health detective, digging into the data to find the root cause/s & creating personalized protocols to help your clients get better.
Sounds pretty good right?
But maybe you’re still unsure if you can really skip the health coaching certification part…
So let’s keep going!
Options For Board Certification
Because Functional Diagnostic Nutrition (FDN) is so well-known within the functional health industry, most of our graduates are highly respected whether they are board certified or not!
However, some people just want that extra stamp of approval, and we get it.
While the FDN program does not qualify you to sit for the NBHWC board exam, it does qualify you to get board certified through the following organizations:
The American Natural Wellness Coaches Board (ANWCB)
The American Association of Drugless Practitioners (AADP)
ANWCB & AADP are both reputable organizations, and you can display their logo on your website for an additional level of credibility.
One piece of important advice:
Don’t let yourself get tooooo hung-up on getting certified in every single thing under the sun. It’s a common mistake we see new health coaches make allll the time!
The truth is your future clients will be most interested in what you can do for them. Not in a stack of certificates collecting dust in your file cabinet.
Typically prospective clients are most impressed by actual testimonials & raving reviews, which you’re totally capable of collecting!
So, are you ready to learn how you can become an FDN-P?
How to Become an FDN-P
On average the certification course takes 6-8 months to complete, but you have a full year to complete the course if needed, which is great for people who have busier schedules.
You can learn more about the course right here, but here’s a summary:
Over the course of 6-12 months, the FDN Certification Course teaches you how to analyze functional lab results, and create data-driven diet & lifestyle protocols to help your clients build better health.
What you learn:
The FDN method of intake & investigation
The D.R.E.S.S. For Health Success™ framework
Comprehensive training on (6) foundational functional lab tests
How to create personalized data-driven healing protocols
What’s included:
(13) self-paced modules w/ module exams
(8) 1:1 sessions with program mentors
(4) functional health test kits (no extra charge!) to run on yourself
Access to the Medical Director Program (upon graduation) to order 60+ lab tests
Access to a growing library of “done-for-you” business resources, forms & templates
Opportunity to join our graduate program for ongoing business development support
Whew, that was a lot of information, wasn’t it?
Let’s recap, and help you choose the best path forward!
How to Choose The Right Path For You
One of the most important questions you can ask yourself is what you want your career to look like.
For example, some employers require the NBC-HWC credential when hiring new employees to work for their business or organization. If you have a specific wellness practice or business that you want to work for, ask them what requirements they have for new health coaches.
On the other hand, becoming an FDN-P prepares you for many different career paths, including:
Working for a functional medicine practice
Working for a supplement company
Working as a host of wellness retreats
Working as a corporate wellness consultant
Working as a functional health and wellness speaker
But the most popular option among FDN graduates is to start their own online wellness practice.
If you’re leaning toward starting your own business (we’re rooting for you if you are!), then becoming an FDN-P is going to provide the best value for you because you are trained to operate your own individual practice.
Here are a few other top questions to ask yourself when trying to decide between becoming an NBHWC Health Coach or an FDN-P.
How much do you want to earn?
Do you want to follow doctors orders or create your own protocols?
Do you want access to ordering functional tests for your clients?
Do you want to work for yourself or for another business?
Get Your Health Coaching Certification Questions Answered!
We’re here to help!
We offer a free 45 minute consultation to answer all your questions.
Our Course Advisors are educated on many health coaching certification programs and can help you determine if FDN is a good choice for you, or not!
PLUS, we’ll be sure to provide some tips & next steps on how you can start or grow your health coaching business.
So…you’re shopping around for a health coaching certification program?
Yessss – we get so excited when people decide to become health coaches!
And we know your head is probably FULL of questions, right?!
Questions like:
How much can I expect to make?
What would my day-to-day job look like?
Is this really going to work for me?
How much is all the training going to cost?
There are lots of factors at play when trying to answer the questions above, but one of the biggest is the education & training you choose.
Why?
Because your education & training greatly impact:
what services you’re qualified to provide
how much you can charge
who you work with, and
how much flexibility you have in your work
So…what does this mean for you??
It means that choosing the right training program is critical!
Which is exactly why we’ve dedicated an entire blog post to it.
Our goal with today’s post is to help you understand what’s available so that you can make the best possible decision for you & your family.
Here’s what we’ll cover:
The “gold standard” of health coach certification
A very appealing alternative to consider
How to decide what’s right for you
Let’s get to it!
The Gold Standard in Health Coaching Certification
The National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC) is considered the “gold standard” when it comes to getting board certified as a health coach.
We say that primarily because it’s the most well-known & popular option. Butttt, as you read through this blog post, keep in mind that just because something is popular, doesn’t mean it’s the best path for you.
Our goal is to help you understand your options!
So, let’s chat about it.
Health Coaching Certification Through NBHWC
Established in 2012, National Board for Health & Wellness Coaching (NBHWC) works to advance the health coaching profession. One of their roles is to vet all the popular & emerging health coaching programs on the market & choose which ones they want to acreddit (e.g. approve).
If you’ve completed a program that has been approved by NBHWC, then you’re eligible to sit for their board exam. Since launching the exam in 2016, over 7,000 coaches have obtained the credential as a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach (NBC-HWC)1.
3-Steps to Health Coaching Certification Through NBHWC.
If you decide to become certified, you’ve got 3 steps:
Complete a training program approved by NBHWC, such as:
Institute for Integrative Nutrition (IIN)
Health Coach Institute (HCI) and
Functional Medicine Coaching Academy (FMCA)
Complete 50 health coaching sessions that meet their criteria
Have an associates degree (or higher), OR at least 4,000 hours of work experience
Once you’ve got those covered, you can apply for the board exam, which has a $100 application fee and $400 exam fee (fees quoted as of 2023). After passing the exam, you are required to complete 36 hours of continuing education credits every 3 years to maintain your certification.
So, what does this particular health coaching certification do for you?
In a nutshell, it shows future clients & employers that you’ve completed some high-quality training & education.
All sounds pretty good right?
But don’t stop there because there is another juicy option to consider!
An Attractive Alternative to Health Coaching Certification
If you haven’t heard of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition (FDN) before, we’re glad you’ve landed here!
FDN has over 4,000 graduates worldwide and is well-respected within the functional medicine & holistic health communities.
The name “Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner (FDN-P)” is a mouthful (we get it lol), butttt basically it means that you are a functional health practitioner.
In fact, many FDN graduates refer to themselves as a “Functional Health Coach”, and for the most part, you get to choose what you call yourself. The important thing to note however is that as an FDN-P, you have more advanced skills than your average health coach.
Yes…even those with the gold standard NBHWC seal of approval!
FDN practitioners specialize in using functional testing to help pinpoint the root causes behind people’s symptoms, and they’re really good at it! But it doesn’t stop there. Once they have the test results, they create data-driven diet & lifestyle protocols to help people address their symptoms & reclaim their health.
FDN practitioners are given highly specialized training that sets them apart from other health coaches, and allows them to launch + grow successful online wellness practices.
The truth is, many students who have already completed other health coaching certification programs come to FDN because they realize they want more in-depth training & education.
Now… we know what you might be thinking:
“This is going to take forever!!”
Complete an approved health coaching program
Get board certified through NBHWC
Get advanced training through FDN
But guess what??
You have the option of skipping right over steps #1 & #2, and coming straight to FDN!
This surprises most people because they assume we have a bunch of prerequisites!
But the truth is, FDN Founder Reed Davis, has intentionally kept the prerequisites to a minimum because he’s so passionate about getting this knowledge out to anyone with a strong desire to learn.
In order to enroll in the FDN certification course, all you need is:
1. a genuine desire to help people heal
2. an interest in holistic health
That’s really it!
The course takes about 6 months for most people to complete, but you’re able to take up to 12 months if you need extra time. Once you graduate, you will have the title Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner, FDN-P.
Becoming an FDN-P sets you apart from other health coaches for many reasons, so let’s take a closer look at that.
Health Coaching Certification vs. FDN Practitioner Certification
We touched on this above, but to recap:
FDN provides more in-depth training than your average health coaching certification program.
As an FDN-P, you can:
Order functional testing (independently, without a doctor involved)
Analyze test results (with access to a program mentor for help)
Create your own custom protocols based on those test results
An NBHWC health coach cannot order functional tests unless they work under another practitioner or physician.
As an FDN-P, you act as a true health detective, digging into the data to find the root cause/s & creating personalized protocols to help your clients get better.
Sounds pretty good right?
But maybe you’re still unsure if you can really skip the health coaching certification part…
So let’s keep going!
Options For Board Certification
Because Functional Diagnostic Nutrition (FDN) is so well-known within the functional health industry, most of our graduates are highly respected whether they are board certified or not!
However, some people just want that extra stamp of approval, and we get it.
While the FDN program does not qualify you to sit for the NBHWC board exam, it does qualify you to get board certified through the following organizations:
The American Natural Wellness Coaches Board (ANWCB)
The American Association of Drugless Practitioners (AADP)
ANWCB & AADP are both reputable organizations, and you can display their logo on your website for an additional level of credibility.
One piece of important advice:
Don’t let yourself get tooooo hung-up on getting certified in every single thing under the sun. It’s a common mistake we see new health coaches make allll the time!
The truth is your future clients will be most interested in what you can do for them. Not in a stack of certificates collecting dust in your file cabinet.
Typically prospective clients are most impressed by actual testimonials & raving reviews, which you’re totally capable of collecting!
So, are you ready to learn how you can become an FDN-P?
How to Become an FDN-P
On average the certification course takes 6-8 months to complete, but you have a full year to complete the course if needed, which is great for people who have busier schedules.
You can learn more about the course right here, but here’s a summary:
Over the course of 6-12 months, the FDN Certification Course teaches you how to analyze functional lab results, and create data-driven diet & lifestyle protocols to help your clients build better health.
What you learn:
The FDN method of intake & investigation
The D.R.E.S.S. For Health Success™ framework
Comprehensive training on (6) foundational functional lab tests
How to create personalized data-driven healing protocols
What’s included:
(13) self-paced modules w/ module exams
(8) 1:1 sessions with program mentors
(4) functional health test kits (no extra charge!) to run on yourself
Access to the Medical Director Program (upon graduation) to order 60+ lab tests
Access to a growing library of “done-for-you” business resources, forms & templates
Opportunity to join our graduate program for ongoing business development support
Whew, that was a lot of information, wasn’t it?
Let’s recap, and help you choose the best path forward!
How to Choose The Right Path For You
One of the most important questions you can ask yourself is what you want your career to look like.
For example, some employers require the NBC-HWC credential when hiring new employees to work for their business or organization. If you have a specific wellness practice or business that you want to work for, ask them what requirements they have for new health coaches.
On the other hand, becoming an FDN-P prepares you for many different career paths, including:
Working for a functional medicine practice
Working for a supplement company
Working as a host of wellness retreats
Working as a corporate wellness consultant
Working as a functional health and wellness speaker
But the most popular option among FDN graduates is to start their own online wellness practice.
If you’re leaning toward starting your own business (we’re rooting for you if you are!), then becoming an FDN-P is going to provide the best value for you because you are trained to operate your own individual practice.
Here are a few other top questions to ask yourself when trying to decide between becoming an NBHWC Health Coach or an FDN-P.
How much do you want to earn?
Do you want to follow doctors orders or create your own protocols?
Do you want access to ordering functional tests for your clients?
Do you want to work for yourself or for another business?
Get Your Health Coaching Certification Questions Answered!
We’re here to help!
We offer a free 45 minute consultation to answer all your questions.
Our Course Advisors are educated on many health coaching certification programs and can help you determine if FDN is a good choice for you, or not!
PLUS, we’ll be sure to provide some tips & next steps on how you can start or grow your health coaching business.
Ben Rubin was born in East Anglia in 1981. He graduated from the University of Leeds.
Ben has had a very successful career in the consulting industry, where he has spent 18 years helping leaders of complex organisations to effect change. During this time, Ben realised that much of the Western system is fundamentally corrupt and needs to be replaced.
Ben is also a trustee of the Public Health Collaboration – an organisation that we both know well and have worked with over time.
I heard Ben on the Delingpole podcast in April 2023 and was struck by this comment “The NHS is the most complicated organisation on earth and I’ve looked at many. By some distance.” Ben did note “there are pockets of excellence.”
This was the first time a Diet & Health Today podcast has been two hours long! There was so much that Ben and I wanted to talk about.
The first hour explored the NHS, Ben’s personal connections with the NHS, why it’s so complex, the costs, how the NHS should be designed (human centred) and how it is designed (layer upon layer of tech projects and upgrades). We discussed the impact of Covid on the NHS and the medic ‘contract’ (Ben has a very interesting view of what the legacy of this might be). We also explored preventing sickness, creeping privatisation, politicisation of healthcare and how the church showed pockets of leadership during recent times. In the second hour, we explore world systems in general, the ‘big thinker’ connections that Ben makes, unelected organisations and the roles that they are trying to play in our lives.
The case for plant-based eating to reduce the burden of diabetes has never been stronger.
There are all sorts of different scoring systems to rate diet quality. My favorite, for its simplicity, is the dietary phytochemical index—a fancy name for a simple concept. It’s just the percentage of your calories from whole plant foods, from 0 to 100. (See Calculate Your Healthy Eating Score.) The average American diet has a score of 12—out of 100. So, on a scale of one to ten, our diet is a one.
When people are split up based on how they score, researchers find that the higher the score, the better the metabolic markers when it comes to diabetes risk. As I discuss in my video The Best Diet for Diabetes, there appears to be a stepwise drop in insulin resistance and insulin-producing beta-cell dysfunction as you eat more and more plant-based. Researchers reported the highest group was only scoring about 30 (out of 100). Less than a third of their diet was whole plant foods. Not great, but better than the lowest group, whose score was down around the level of the standard American diet, as you can see below and at 0:49 in my video.
No wonder diets centered around plants, “eating patterns that emphasize legumes [beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils], whole grains, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and seeds and discourage most or all animal products…are especially potent in preventing type 2 diabetes and have been associated with much lower rates of obesity, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, cardiovascular mortality, and cancer”—and not just preventing type 2 diabetes, but treating it as well. A systematic review and meta-analysis found that the consumption of vegetarian diets is associated with improved blood sugar control, but how much of an improvement?
One of the latest trials, a 12-week, randomized clinical trial done in Asia, studied the effect of a strictly plant-based diet centered around brown rice versus the conventional diabetic diet on blood sugar control of patients with type 2 diabetes. For the diabetic control diet, researchers set up food exchanges and calculated specific calorie and portion controls, whereas on the plant-based diet, people could eat as much as they wanted, which is one of the benefits of that eating pattern: The emphasis is on food quality rather than quantity. Yet, the participants still lost more weight. Even after controlling for the greater abdominal fat loss in the plant-based group, they still won out. Of course, it only works if you actually do it, but those who pretty much stuck to the healthier diet dropped their A1c levels by 0.9 percent. That’s what you may get taking the leading diabetes drug, but, eating plant-based, they only got good side effects.
Would it work in an underserved population? Researchers studied the impact of a plant-based diet support program on mitigating type 2 diabetes in San Bernadino, the poorest city of its size in California. This was a randomized controlled trial, but not of a plant-based diet itself as the title suggests. It was a trial of an education program telling people about the benefits of a plant-based diet for diabetes, then it was up to them. Participants still got a significant improvement in blood sugar control. As you can see below and at 3:10 in my video The Best Diet for Diabetes, the numbers got a little better in the control group, but much better in the plant-based instruction and support group.
And, more plant-based diets are effective not just in the prevention and management of diabetes, but also its complications. One of the most devastating complications of diabetes is kidney failure. As you can see below and at 3:26 in my video, eight diabetics all showed a steady, inexorable decline in kidney function in the one or two years before switching their diets. They were on a fast track to complete kidney failure and dialysis. But, after they switched to a special supplemented vegan diet, their kidney decline was stopped in its tracks. Imagine if they had switched a year or two earlier!
Most diabetics don’t actually end up on dialysis, though, because they die first. “Cardiovascular disease is the major cause of premature mortality in the diabetic population,” which is why plant-based diets are perfect. “There is a general [scientific] consensus that the elements of a whole-foods plant-based diet—legumes, whole grains, fruits, vegetables, and nuts, with limited or no intake of processed foods and animal products—are highly beneficial for preventing and treating type 2 diabetes. Equally important, plant-based diets address the bigger picture for patients with diabetes by simultaneously treating cardiovascular disease, the leading cause of death in the United States, and its risk factors such as obesity, hypertension [high blood pressure], hyper-lipidemia, and inflammation,” and we can throw cancer in the mix, too, which is our number two killer. The bottom line is that “the case for using a plant-based diet to reduce the burden of diabetes and improve overall health has never been stronger.”
If all a plant-based diet could do is prevent and reverse heart disease, the number one killer of men and women, shouldn’t it be the default diet until proven otherwise? I’d say so, and the evidence for the benefits of a more plant-based diet continues to emerge for a variety of other life-threatening chronic diseases. For starters, see How Not to Die from Heart Disease.
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: Well, hello my friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show about how to build confidence in your sales process.
We are having a fan favorite guest on today, and I do mean that quite literally. Her name is Hailey Rowe, and her previous episode is currently a top 10 most downloaded episode on our podcast. It is called Anyone Can Be an Entrepreneur. I will put that link in the show notes for you guys, of course, so you can check that out afterwards if you’d like. But we got a ton of cool stuff to talk about today with her. She is coming on to help us focus on the business side, specifically sales today.
Now, I know this is called the Health Detective Podcast, so if by chance you happen to click on this randomly, that might not fully make sense. The reason that we bring on people like this is because we have a lot of practitioners that listen. Some are our own practitioners, Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners. Others are health coaches. We’re a little different than them, but we can still help them on the business side.
We have chiropractors that listen, acupuncturists, a really large amount of people that are in the health space wanting to develop their own business, get their skills down, whatever it might be. That’s why we bring on people like this occasionally.
Build Confidence: Develop Your Business
So, Hailey’s going to be talking to us again about sales today. Last time was entrepreneurship from like a 30,000-foot view. And then as an added bonus, if you are listening to this within about the first week of it coming out, you still have an opportunity to catch her next Live event with FDN, which is going to be where she talks about how to grow your health coaching business or your FDN business on LinkedIn. I think this is pretty interesting because I know that there’s power to LinkedIn.
I actually deleted my account for the longest time and I’m considering getting it back on cause I think there’s probably huge validity there. I just hate how freaking generic it is. I mean, I’m in my twenties so when I go online and I see the posts from some of my friends from college, I love you guys to death, but it is just like, what is going on? It’s all the same stuff. It’s like, I am so proud and happy to announce, yada, yada, yada. I like to thank my friends and family. I just, I’m not cookie cutter like that man. It’s all the same thing, I could plug and play it.
But you know, sometimes you gotta just play the game, right? Hailey knows what she’s doing with that, and if you want to play that game to develop your business, that is the person to go with. So, I’m going to get back on LinkedIn, she convinced me.
FDN Summer Open House
And we’re doing a full training with her for our Summer Open House event. That’ll be my last little announcement here. If you don’t know what our Summer Open House event is yet, it is the entire month of June 2023. We have over 20 Live events scheduled for health practitioners or people that want to become health practitioners, and that is where Hailey will be talking about the LinkedIn stuff.
Just go to fdntraining.com/summer to get registered for that, it is a free event. Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the location and time for when that event’s going to be occurring. If you’d like the recordings of those events, we do have a paid version; it’s fdntraining.com/vip. That is to get the recordings. But fdntraining.com/summer gets you all of the stuff completely for free. You just have to attend the events Live.
About Hailey Rowe
With all that said, here’s a little bit about Hailey before we get started. She is a Marketing & Sales Coach/Consultant & Linkedin Lead Generation Service Provider. She helps health coaches and functional wellness professionals build their client attraction process, develop their no-brainer offers, and grow their impact locally and online. Also, she shares her F.A.S.T. Framework, that’s an acronym which we’ll talk about today, marketing and business tips on her Health Coach Nation Podcast, and in her FREE Marketing Hub Facebook Group.
She’s been named as one of the top 25 coaches in Chicago and one of the top six business podcasts for health coaches. Since 2010, Hailey has worked in the coaching industry and in business development/marketing for startups. Hailey’s philosophy is this, you can have an amazing service and impact to make, but without a strong mindset and sales and marketing plan, your business will remain a hobby.
Ooh, that stings a little bit. But that’s what entrepreneurship has to be sometime. If you can override the sting, on the other side of that is a really great business waiting for you, and we’re going to talk about that today. Without further ado, let’s get to the episode.
All right. Hello there, Hailey. Welcome back to the Health Detective Podcast. How are you?
[00:04:22] Hailey Rowe: Thank you. I am doing well. How are you doing?
[00:04:25] Detective Ev: I can hardly remember a time I was better. Thanks for asking. I think I hit you with that the other day too, but it’s true. I really am always doing well, so I’m very thankful to be able to say that for right now. I hope everyone else, if you’re doing half as well as me, you’re doing pretty good if you’re listening to this.
We wanted to bring Hailey back on for a couple of reasons. She will be a part of our Summer Open House event and actually, this will be released in time for that. I’ll make sure it is. Let’s just touch on that topic really quick if you don’t mind. So, it’s fdntraining.com/summer. If you miss her event, it’s fdntraining.com/vip so you can catch the recordings.
But what will you be talking about there on our Summer Open House event?
[00:05:08] Hailey Rowe: I will be talking about how to attract profitable partnerships and clients using LinkedIn, the low maintenance platform, I call it.
[00:05:16] Detective Ev: Cool. Very cool. And today we have an entirely different topic. We’re going to be, I think we call it almost like confidence in sales, right? Is that how we would describe it?
[00:05:26] Detective Ev: Okay. You guys, if you were just someone who actually listens to the intros, you kind of would’ve heard about Hailey a little bit. It is different than our normal person, because we have businesspeople on, but a lot of the people are also health coaches, right? They have these extreme health stories, typically speaking.
So, just in case these are people who skip my intros, and I don’t know why they would do such a thing, can you give us a brief on your background again? Just what do you do and why do you teach this stuff?
[00:05:49] Hailey Rowe: For sure. I am a marketing and sales coach and consultant and a LinkedIn lead gen service provider for wellness professionals. Specifically, I’ve worked with a lot of FDN practitioners.
Build Confidence: A Sales System
They are amazing at what they do, but sometimes when it comes to the sales piece, they get a little nervous about how do I put myself out there? How do I not sound pushy? What about everybody’s going to think my pricing is too expensive? These are things that you have to navigate as a new business owner.
And sales is definitely a new skill that a lot of times new business owners don’t have quite yet. Sometimes even established business owners don’t have a sales system or have gaps in their sales process. So, I got into working with these wellness professionals because I used to do marketing and be on a business development team for wellness startups. I loved it but I love even more working individually with these wellness-based business owners and how to attract clients, get visibility opportunities, establish their business foundations and messaging, all that kind of stuff as they want to make their impact.
[00:06:57] Detective Ev: Very cool. This is something, my gosh, if you guys even listen to every other episode, I talk about this all the time. So, I’m so happy to have you back today. I more talk about it conceptually, you’re going to give some tangible things that we can use today.
I see this coming up so much and it kind of breaks my heart. So, I see a lot of people that get into this space because they had health issues and because their heart took them into the health side. But then they realize, oh, wait. To do this in the most effective way possible, most people are going to have to do this in a business format. That’s probably your quickest route to success.
Build Confidence: Intimidating Sales
But in their head, they’re saying, wait a second. I wanted to be a health person; I don’t know anything about business. And then, yeah, I gotta do sales and marketing. I can’t even define those things. So how am I supposed to do this? The truth of the matter is, I have seen so many people take that leap, learn those skills, and actually dedicate themselves to it in the same way they dedicated themselves to figuring out health.
Guys, yeah, it’s scary in the beginning. It’s intimidating. There’s no doubt about that. And it never really gets a hundred percent comfortable. At least I’m not there yet and I’ve been doing sales for nine years in some way or another. But it’s a muscle, you get stronger with it. It gets a little easier to activate it over time, and it is something that can be learned. There’s a real skill to it.
I think what I’m excited for today, as well, is at the middle-end we’ll talk about the sales system’s potential. So, I was always someone that they considered a “salesperson”, quote/unquote. What do people really mean by that? They just mean that you maybe are extroverted and have some level of charisma. That’s not a sales system. That’s a person who is extroverted and has charisma that might be more prone to selling. But that doesn’t mean that you have a consistent system that you can duplicate for someone else.
This stuff matters. Yes, you can be an introvert; yes, you can be shy. This can all be done. So, let’s break it down simply for people just in case they are new to this stuff, and they’re intimidated.
Build Confidence: Sales Versus Marketing
First, we don’t have to do Websters here, but how would you define the difference between marketing and sales? Because I think that’s confusing for people.
[00:08:45] Hailey Rowe: Yeah, that’s a great question. So, I define sales actually by Dan Sullivan’s definition. I love his definition. And that is, sales is getting somebody emotionally and intellectually encouraged to take an action that they define as good for them.
When we talk about coaching, which is what you guys do with your students, I really see sales as a partnership conversation with you and the potential client. You are seeing what they want and need, seeing if you can deliver that, seeing if you guys are a good fit, and helping them come to a decision.
I think a lot of people automatically freak themselves out about sales because they think it means you are asking somebody for money, you’re pushing somebody to make a decision, you’re begging somebody, you’re trying to quote/unquote “convince people”, which it is none of that. It is a conversation with open-ended questions, hearing your potential client or prospect, and seeing what makes sense to solve their problem, helping them come to some kind of decision, whether it’s a yes, no, or a referral to someone else who would do a better job.
The point is you’re like a detective and you’re trying to figure out what is the best next move for this person and what do they feel is the best next move for this person. That’s what sales is. But marketing is everything that leads up to that conversation. That’s the part where you’re going to be connecting with new people.
Build Confidence: Offering the Solution
That’s the part where you’re going to be nurturing people and telling them your story or helping them understand what you do and why you do it. It’s the part where you are inviting them to get quick wins from you upfront, either through a lead magnet, like a freebie or your free webinar or whatever, or inviting them to that sales phase if they’ve indicated an interest to go to that next phase.
Marketing is really more so the stuff that has to happen before the sales conversation to help somebody understand what’s possible for them, get an interest, get them to raise their hand that they are interested in the kind of solutions you provide. And then the sales part is helping them come to some kind of decision.
[00:10:56] Detective Ev: I think this is perfect, especially if someone has never heard about this. It’s like, okay, so sales is this, marketing is everything that leads up to that. That’s actually a great way to put it. I’ve never heard marketing put that way, but now I’m going to start explaining it to people like that.
Just to be clear then, when we’re talking about these definitions, what I didn’t hear in sales definition is lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, or anything like that. So, sales is actually an ethical thing where you solve someone’s problem, assuming that you’re qualified to do so. Is that what I’m hearing?
[00:11:23] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Actually, the way I like to think about it is if somebody has a problem or a challenge they’ve been dealing with and they’ve been spending time, money, exhaustion, emotional expense on this issue, searching for an issue, it’s your duty to offer them some kind of solution.
Build Confidence: Dealing with Objections
So again, if your solution really isn’t the right solution for them, of course don’t manipulate them and tell them that it is. But at the same time, a lot of times what they need is support, accountability, finding the root cause of their challenge, et cetera. You guys, as wellness professionals, can do that. So yeah, no manipulation needed.
However, I will say that a lot of times I see people think that somebody has a limiting belief or objection. For example, if somebody says, oh, I want to do this, but I need to wait until my child’s soccer team ends this summer. You know? That is not necessarily them saying they don’t want to do it and that you should just say, oh, okay, well let’s catch up at the end of the summer. We do want to explore objections with people.
In other words, you’re not forcing them. You’re not saying, well, that’s a wrong assumption. We could get started right now because blah, blah, blah. You’re not dictating something, but you do want to help somebody.
They might have told you earlier in your discovery call, which we call that call you use to see if somebody’s a fit for your services, they might have said earlier, I need to do this. I’ve been waiting for eight years to solve this problem, blah, blah, blah. And then later they have some comment about, I gotta wait till my kid’s soccer team is over.
Well, okay. In that case, you as their coach, you understand that they’ve been dealing with this pain, and they fall into this pattern of delay. So, it is your job to ask a question and inquire about that. You’re not forcing; you’re not pushing.
Build Confidence: Inquiring with Certain Objections
If somebody has an objection, a lot of times people close down like, okay, bye. I’ll talk to you later. What we actually want to do is lean in and inquire.
Be like, interesting. Do you think that the plan we’re going to put together is going to be super time consuming? Because we can adapt it to make sure it fits with your lifestyle and your kid’s soccer games and whatever. That’s more of what I mean. We do want to inquire about certain objections they may have if they’ve already shared that this is what they’re looking for.
[00:13:52] Detective Ev: I appreciate that perspective of the limiting belief because this is something everyone can relate to. We all walk around with these in many categories and areas of our life.
Hopefully, if you’re watching something like this, you have engaged in some conscious personal development. By conscious, I mean intentional, you weren’t forced into it. And through that personal development, you probably identified some of those things for yourself.
I was just having a conversation with my girlfriend and best friend, separate conversation. But I love personality theory and my best friend and girlfriend actually have the same personality type. So, it makes sense why I was friends with him since we were young. And then I found a partner in her. But they have very similar ways of thinking about things.
One of their things, Hailey, with like money and working that we’ve all been working through together, even as friends, cause we’re all connected, is they are under the impression that to make good money means you have to work 70, 80 hours a week, you have to be bringing the laptop to the beach with the family and all these things.
Build Confidence: Adding Value Not Hours
And what you’re talking about here is something that I just do with a friend. I’m like, so what does 70 hours do that 40 hours doesn’t? And then we start working through this and just ask very logical questions. Like, if someone’s making $15 an hour, you can work all the hours in the day that you want. You can work all 24, that’s not going to get you rich. Right? So, then you have to acknowledge, I need to be providing more value in the hours.
Cause it’s not just about 70 hours, but 70 hours at $15 does nothing. I mean, it does something. I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be ignorant, but obviously it’s not getting people rich and financially stable, I don’t think. At some point then we gotta say, oh wait, what else is there?
So, where did I get that limiting belief from? And it turns out with one of those people I mentioned, their dad was actually someone who literally worked 70, 80 hours a week, still does. Would bring the laptop to the beach and was hyper successful. So, they assumed and got this, rightfully so, as a kid. Oh, they do that? That must be what everyone that has success does.
I’m like, we have FDNs that refuse to work more than 40 hours a week simply because they care so much about their health, and they got sick working extensive hours before. So, they say, how can I provide more value in the 40 hours versus just adding hours. Because you get a very limited amount of hours. We can add almost unlimited value to our services and ourselves as we move on through life. I think this would help with the confidence thing in sales.
Build Confidence: Clients Must Take Responsibility
Is there a time or a way that the limiting belief is too much and it’s just not your job as the business owner in this case to work them through that? Because some you can work through easily and others it’s like, oh my gosh, you need a therapist with all due respect.
[00:16:15] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. If you hear from somebody, like, nothing ever works for me, they ripped me off and I have to get a refund, and blah, blah, and a lot of they, they, they, and not a lot of personal responsibility, you, as a coach, can’t always teach that, or it’s not always worth teaching that.
So, if somebody’s very blame oriented and you’re hearing a lot of “they” or “the world” or X, Y, Z is against me, sometimes that person may not be the right fit. Cause coaching is all about you partnering with someone and them taking responsibility and you helping them get the results. But I think that’s important.
I think the other thing that’s important is if somebody has a trauma or something really serious or certain medications you’re not familiar with that you would need to coordinate with their doctor, but it’s way down a rabbit hole of something you’ve never done, like totally disqualified, you need to be the judge on can you really help this person. Yeah, I definitely think there’s things that you need to look out for.
About sales, if you’re really excited about what you sell, really convicted, really thinking that your offer is an amazing steal and you over-deliver, naturally a lot of the techniques that we teach in sales and sales psychology, your tone, and all of that, just naturally is going to be really good.
Build Confidence: It Just Comes Naturally
I teach my clients sales, marketing, all that, and a lot of times I listen to their discovery calls and give them feedback.
I have a client who just, I could tell from the moment she gets on the phone, she is so excited and so interested in the person on the other side. She’s not thinking about herself at all, she’s more so like, I have the solve, I have the framework, I know that this is what you’re saying, we can solve this. And she doesn’t even have to memorize anything or dictate anything because it just is coming so naturally. So just a side note there.
The other thing is use your emotional intelligence. If you get a gut feeling that somebody’s just literally every excuse out of the gates and they’re sounding like they really don’t want it, you could even say, wow, it sounds like maybe this is something you don’t want. And you can even clarify that. Because sometimes you’ll find that when you do that, people are like, wait, no, no, no. Then they’ll say what they’re really thinking.
But yeah. Just a side note there.
[00:18:44] Detective Ev: That’s perfect.
I think one of the things we can do as not only FDNs, probably just coaches and practitioners in general that you work with, is it’s really important to have, in my opinion, a few things that we can offer people. So, I don’t even just mean lower ticket programs. Like I have a personal role.
This is one of the ways that I feel ethical selling is. I will never, ever get someone on a free discovery call that I said was free and not give them something. Now my something oftentimes is as simple, Hailey, as a book recommendation.
Build Confidence: Sowing Slowly into Potential Clients
Thankfully, I’ve done this for nine years and I’m listening to what they’re saying. If it was someone that man, I’m like, they got every excuse in the book, and I feel bad. I say, hey, you know what? I got a book I think you would honestly love, and it might help this current situation. I don’t even explain it cause I don’t want to offend them. They need to come to this conclusion on their own.
I’ll send them The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. It’s really simple. It was the first personal development book I ever read. And I was like, oh wait. A lot of the problems in my life aren’t my fault, but they’re my responsibility to fix. What a concept. You’d be surprised how many people walk around, no one’s ever told them that, and they’ve never actually thought about it.
You could change someone’s life in a very positive way if you send them this stuff. Or maybe it’s someone who can’t afford your services, legitimately, which you gotta work through that stuff. That might not be true, but sometimes they just can’t. Then you can say, all right, here’s a book for this, or maybe you have a minicourse or whatever.
I think having these different offers helps. Because then, depending on how bad the limiting beliefs are, you have something in your back pocket possibly to even help solve their limiting beliefs. I’ve sent that Compound Effect to a handful of people over time. It’s been amazing to see some people a year later. They come back and they’re like, yeah, things have been going a lot better and now I’m really interested in your services.
Build Confidence: Building Trust
And these are the best people to talk to on the call now. They’re locked in, they’re focused, they’ve done that work on themselves, they’re ready to go, and they appreciate you for helping them out and not selling them on something that they weren’t ready for beforehand.
You’ll thank yourself too cause you don’t want a nightmare client and you don’t want them to be forced to do something they don’t want to do.
[00:20:33] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Sometimes there’s kind of like a prerequisite or pre homework or something like that that you can experiment with.
In other words, like, I’ve had people who they really want to work together, but it is what you said before, like maybe they truly can’t afford it right now. So, I will give them an exercise they can go do to start making progress towards that if it’s something that they want to do, or coach them on where are the gaps that you can fill in your business to start. It’s not that you’re going to coach them and give them your program for free forever and whatever, but it is really a good point of what you’re saying. Goodwill and just sharing, giving results ahead of time that actually builds trust.
And I’ve had people come back to me later and be like, oh wow, I solved this problem and now I’m ready to go. Yeah, I think that’s a great tool if somebody’s not ready, give a recommendation or give a next step. That all comes back to the same rule of helping them come to their next move or their next decision that’s going to help them.
Build Confidence: Having a Structured Call
[00:21:29] Detective Ev: Sure. Then going a little bit more specifically on the topic of today with confidence in sales. Hailey and I have gotten to interact quite a few times now doing Instagram Lives. Whenever we do these things, you come across as a Go-getter, totally confident, totally secure in yourself. That’s hard enough for people to do. Then we’re adding the selling component on top of it.
I know how nervous some people get doing the podcast with me even, believe it or not. And yet, now we’re talking about sales, which is even tougher. It’s up there with public speaking for a lot of people. So, how do we develop that confidence then specifically for the sales side? I know we’ve already given some tips, but I’m sure you have some things that are concise.
[00:22:05] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. Couple things. Number one, I think the first thing that is the most obvious, sometimes you don’t feel confident in sales cause you literally have no idea or structure of how does a discovery call work? Or what are the kinds of things you want to cover with someone to see if they’re a good fit for your offer? So, the first very easy thing to address is having a structure for your calls with potential clients.
Now, I know not everybody does calls, and I know other people have different offers like courses and maybe they do a webinar and whatever, but for most individuals who offer high-ticket health wellness packages, it makes sense to maybe get on a call, especially if you’re new.
So, I would say the first thing that I see that derails people’s confidence is they come on the call and they kind of like, don’t have any structure.
Build Confidence: How to Structure a Call
The first thing is you have to set the stage for the call. You don’t jump on the call and just start shooting the breeze. It’s, hey, today we’re going to talk about your goals, what you’re struggling with, what you’ve tried so far, and if it makes sense, we’re going to talk about how we could work together to address those. Does that work for you?
Then from there, leading the call in finding out their dream outcomes and goals. What are their obstacles; what have they tried so far that hasn’t worked? Where are the gaps? Why did they come to you? Like, what are they looking to solve? What would make it a no-brainer and a home run versus what are their hesitations when it comes to working with you?
Recapping all of that, then seeing if you guys are on the same page, seeing if they want to hear more about how you work with clients. Going into the benefits of your work with you, not just the features. That’s the other thing I think that kills confidence is when you just focus on, I do sessions and you’re not really feel confident about what you’re promoting. You’re just saying, I’ll do a couple hour sessions with you in a package of 12 sessions. And then the value is not really communicated to that other person.
Make sure you’re connecting the dots of what does this program give them in their life and the features just happen to be a side product, meaning however many sessions you do, resources, et cetera. Hearing them out on what are their questions, what is really on their mind, what would hold them back from getting started, things like that, coaching on those things.
Then having at the end, either we’re going to schedule a follow call after you think about it, if you’ve already addressed what they need to think about and they still just want to sleep on it, or they are going to sign up and you guys are going to send the onboarding and set up the first session. Or it’s a “no” for right now, and you guys have come to that decision, that’s totally okay. But then you can have the peace of knowing it’s a no and move on, right?
That’s just the first thing is you need to have a general structure for your calls to feel confident. When you have that, you’re going to feel a lot more comfortable.
The second thing is being comfortable in really listening and asking open-ended questions. A lot of times I think people get intimidated by sales cause they think they need to read it directly from the script. They need to dictate a response to every single objection that has a prepared memorized response. The truth is what you need to know is there’s going to be a couple things that you guys are going to have to align with for them to move forward.
Product fit. Do they believe that your offer is the best thing that can help them get to the results? A you fit, so, a trust fit. Do they believe you are the best person to help them get there? A price and value match. Meaning they see the value of this as equal to the price. And then do they have any limitations that they think they are not going to follow through, or little things in their mind about themselves that’s causing them to not move forward.
Build Confidence: Doing Reps
You have to check. If you want to feel confident in sales, you have to make sure that you’re hitting those, you understand the person, where they’re at in each of those four areas. Do they think the product is a fit, you are a fit, that they’re going to follow through, and the price equals the value or more – the value exceeds the price?
Then the other thing with confidence is just reps. Here’s the deal, none of us are good at things that are brand new. And most of us are not willing to stink a hundred times before we get good at something. But my encouragement to you, because I used to do actually high-ticket sales calls for another coach and also for businesses I worked for when I worked in the startup world. I had to put in so many reps and have so many stumbles and so many times where I was like, why didn’t I ask them this? Or I totally felt just tired by the end of that call cause I could have been better about listening.
You just have to put in the reps and know you’re going to be bad at something in the beginning. But the only way you get better is by doing these calls. Then after, evaluating, what did I do well, what did I maybe not do well, et cetera.
The last thing I want to say about confidence with sales is you have to be confident about your offer. It is going to be hard to sell something that you feel really unclear about and/or you feel is overpriced and/or you’re not sold on yourself, or you can’t back it up with that you also understand the importance of investing in yourself, things like that.
Build Confidence: Taking it Too Personal
Working on the offer is pretty important cause we’ve all been really good salespeople at some point in our life with something we really believe in. To your spouse, you might have been like, honey, we have to go to this restaurant. It is so good. The service is amazing, the food is amazing, da, da, da. You had no problem selling that to your spouse.
But when it comes to your own business, your own program, and your own product, we get all caught up in our heads, we get all caught up on us, how we’re sounding, and what other people think of us. That is what makes people really nervous because they have so much skin in the game about, this is me. If they say no to this program, they’re saying no to me, and I take it very personally. But the truth is you are offering a transformational program that’s separate from you and you gotta keep it separate from you.
And yes, you might love your work; yes, you might be a big part of the package and the program, but someone saying no does not mean you are unworthy, or you did something wrong. It’s just that there is going to be a certain percentage of people who say no and are not a fit, and that is okay. Just keep in mind, you gotta be so sold on your offer so that doesn’t cause you to lose enthusiasm.
[00:28:42] Detective Ev: There’s so much there. I’m going to pick from a few different parts. Hailey and I actually had a conversation the other day on her Instagram. Definitely check her out there, it’s in the show notes.
Build Confidence: The Other Side of Predictability
One of the topics that came up was the entrepreneurial personality and the confidence that comes with that. I think one of the things here that we’re overlapping with is the same type of personality that is willing to engage in entrepreneurship, typically is a little more friendly to the sales side. Because guess what? Entrepreneurs are constantly putting themselves in uncomfortable situations.
What I have found, especially if we don’t work on ourselves, if we don’t engage in personal development, a lot of us do kind of try to live in our little comfortable bubbles that keep us safe all of our life. Now, safety’s an illusion anyway, but we try to do this. We want to do the routine things, we want to see the same people, we want to go to the same job, we want that predictability. And you can do that, that’s fine.
But on the other side of that predictability, man, that’s an amazing life waiting for you. There’s something so much more out there waiting for you. It is something that should bleed over into other areas of your life. It’s not just, oh, trying the sales and I’m nervous cause it’s new for the first time. Like, you need to do this with everything, and it helps out.
I just started Brazilian jiu-jitsu last year. Guess what? That is uncomfortable, man. I’ve never grappled with another person in my life. And I got like man parts in my face now as they’re trying to like choke you, right? It’s not the most comfortable setting.
Build Confidence: Fear Exposure Therapy
But guess what? You go one time, it is awful. You’re awkward, you’re red in the face, you’re nervous. Then you show up the second time, and then you show up the third and the fourth. Now, guess what? I’m not saying rolling is my favorite part of the week. Rolling’s like when you do the sparring with these people. It’s not my favorite part of the week, but I know, worst thing that happens is this. And I’m okay. I’ve lived.
[00:30:24] Hailey Rowe: Can I say something about that? Two things. One, they did some research and they found, like with fear exposure therapy, it takes about 25 times of repeated exposure until the person can be exposed to that thing without completely being terrorized. Okay? So, I think everybody here should set the goal of 25. Let’s even make it inevitable that you’re going to rock your sales. Twenty-five to a hundred times, I would say a hundred times being willing to do it scared to really get good.
And the other thing you just said is what’s the worst-case scenario? The worst-case scenario is you just feel a little awkward. You feel an uncomfortable emotion, which we’re already feeling anyways in your business when you don’t have sales, you’re feeling that lack feeling. You’re going to feel a feeling anyways, so you might as well be moving forward in your business and growing.
[00:31:17] Detective Ev: I love that. Because listen, that awkwardness is going to come. Either you get it on the sales calls, but you’re going to win some. The flip side of what Hailey said is some people will say no, no matter what. Guess what? Some people say yes, no matter what. There is a percentage of those too.
Build Confidence: Picking Your Awkward & Embarrassing
And it’s the wackiest thing in the world. You could have said whatever, it could be your worst sales call you’ve ever had, and they will pay in full. You don’t know why it happened, but they are just those types of people.
Ironically, I’m not a person who negotiates. People always think that because I’m in the sales. And I do that, I’m the easiest buyer in the world. You tell me what it is, I’ll pay full price. I’m like, oh, whatever. Like, let’s just go do it. Because I’ve done some research normally beforehand too, but that’s just how I am. I’m just going to buy it. I already knew I was interested. I’m not here to try to pick you off $300. You said this is the price, I’m going to buy it.
So, I mean, I might be screwing myself from people that I buy from in the future. Here they’re like, we’re going to raise this guy a few hundred dollars. But that’s the point. You’re going to get some no’s, some yes’s, so you might as well do the calls.
Because otherwise you’re going to have to get your awkward feelings and embarrassment from the next family party when they say, how’s that business going? And then for the second or third year in a row, you gotta say, oh yeah, I’m still working on it. Right?
So, you pick your awkward and embarrassing cause they both suck. One you actually grow with, and the other, you can keep that going indefinitely, right? We gotta get in the mindset. That’s why the personal development side is so big to all of this anyway.
Build Confidence: Putting Failures into Perspective
You have to be a person that when they want to do something, is willing to try new things. I want to learn to fight, I want to learn to be able to defend myself. Not to fight for fighting’s sake, but I want to be able to do that. Okay. You’re going to have to go through the uncomfortable process of being bad at something.
I’m always a walking self-help book. There’s a quote that says, the master has failed more times than the amateurs even tried. And how true is that? You know, these people that you look up to, they have failed often more than we have tried. So, I love that.
Then, I guess my next thing is, you talked about kind of having some structure to the sales calls and this, I guess, indirectly relates to the confidence side. But another reason that we can do that, that I think, again, would build confidence long-term indirectly, is that if you don’t have a structure to each sales call, how do you know if you’re getting better? Right?
[00:33:18] Hailey Rowe: Right. You don’t have time to evaluate cause every call is so different.
[00:33:21] Detective Ev: Yeah. And so of course each person’s going to come up uniquely. But when you say a structure, do you mean, like FDN, for example, gives people a base script of like eight questions that we’re supposed to use every single time. So, would it be something like that? Is that what you work with your clients with?
Build Confidence: A Roadmap
[00:33:33] Hailey Rowe: Basically, yeah. I give my clients kind of a roadmap. Obviously, I give them ways to customize it to their own style. But I do think it’s important to have a roadmap to hit on the main parts you need to know about somebody and what’s important to them to be able to make an offer if it makes sense. It’s usually having to hit on the goals, the gaps, what they’re struggling with, et cetera.
But yeah, you do want to have parts that you could review. Cause maybe you’re really not so good at talking about your program when it comes time to, because you noticed that you don’t even know what your program includes, and you keep messing up on what’s actually included or whatever.
When you have certain parts you hit, you can look at each one and say, okay, did I hit these points or not? But when you go on the call and there’s no structure, you’re going to keep getting brain picking calls. You’re just going to have people come on the calls and just be like, so what do you think about this? It’s not going to go anywhere.
[00:34:29] Detective Ev: Yeah, you definitely want structure.
I’d like to transition a little bit to what you offer, but two, maybe even before that I’d love to hear client testimonials from this.
To the degree that you’re able to share, do you have any obvious examples of someone that came to you and maybe they were struggling with the business side, or the sales side as is the topic today, and you worked with them and helped them get a great result. What’s something that comes to the top of your head with that?
Build Confidence: Client Success Stories
[00:34:51] Hailey Rowe: Definitely. One that comes to mind is she didn’t even know what she wanted to really coach. She had a lot of talents and a lot of different certifications and a background. Together, we became clear on what she truly wanted to do, the impact she wanted to make, what her package looked like, et cetera.
But she was super afraid of sales because, originally, she said, I have to be asking people for money, I don’t want to do that. And when you think of sales that way, of course you don’t want to do that. Who wants to ask somebody for money and feel like you’re taking?
I actually have a screenshot testimonial from her about how she realized that sales is more so coaching and serving. And she was able to have her first $3K high-ticket coaching package sale, her first $5K month. Then she had an $8K month, and then she was making more than what she was making in her corporate job.
I had another client who also felt like she didn’t know what she was selling at all. We got clear on her package of course, but then we were able to do some recordings of her discovery calls that I was able to listen to and give her feedback. She was able to totally change her conversion rate.
Before, she had people who would ghost her all the time. People would say they were going to do it, but then when she sent the onboarding email, they wouldn’t do it. Versus now she is booking clients in her private coaching practice and has had high-ticket months and all of that kind of stuff.
[00:36:17] Detective Ev: Awesome. That’s so cool.
Build Confidence: The Conversion Rate
These are life changing numbers; you know what I mean? Because it’s so easy to talk about millions. That’s not what most people are going for. They’re looking to replace those jobs that they don’t like and have a little extra left over. And that’s stories of that. So, that’s pretty sweet.
This all ties in before we talk about where people can find you and what it is specifically that you offer. I think people get a little caught up in not knowing what to expect in sales. What I mean by that is you have already identified, no matter how many sales or how good you get at this, some people are going to say no. The thing is, people always want to know the expectation, and then if they don’t have one, they’re thinking that any no is bad.
So, realistically speaking, I don’t know if you have these numbers offhand or can estimate it. Let’s say a hundred people call one of your students or even you, how many people actually end up buying? Because I think the numbers are much lower than people think when they first get into sales.
[00:37:12] Hailey Rowe: That’s a great question. I will say about 20% maybe is what you should expect. However, I’ve had clients who their problem will be they’re not getting the calls. But when they do have the calls, it’s such a high conversion rate. So, it depends. And I would say mine’s higher. I would say a lot of my clients’ are higher.
Also, I think if you have what we call a business model that has like an upsell and a down sell and stuff, you can increase your own conversion rate just by having options. So, it can definitely be higher.
Build Confidence: Beginners Need Reps
But in the high-ticket sales world, if we’re talking about general stats, and when I was doing sales calls for these coaches and things like that, the standard and what we always had talked about is 20% is kind of around what to expect.
Now if you’re pre-qualifying your calls, meaning you are only taking people who fill out your form and say they can afford it, look like they’re a good fit from their form, have to apply and stuff, your conversion rate actually could be really, really high because you’re doing a lot of pre-qualifying upfront.
But sometimes I recommend if you’re new to taking these calls, you want to get your reps in first. So, I am actually not a fan, if you’re new, I wouldn’t have an extensive form that someone has to apply for and all that. I think you need to get some practice in and sell some stuff. So, I am more so about it doesn’t matter. You could have a higher conversion rate for sure if you pre-qualified better, but in the beginning, I think you should just take the calls and get reps in.
[00:38:43] Detective Ev: I have done jobs where the thing was 40% convers rate. I have done some that were 10%. Either way, I want you guys to think about this, 40% or 10%, both of those are less than 50%.
I think people, they’re used to just a normal job setting or whatever where in your normal job you probably have to be successful more than 80% of the time. Right?
Build Confidence: Accepting the Averages
And I’m not saying that you’re failing if you’re not getting these closed people. Some of them you might have referred out to something else, right? That could be considered a form of close, you just didn’t close them on your thing cause you were doing the right thing and giving them somewhere else.
My point is though, I think that 20% was a really fair number to list off. Guys, that means four out of five people that you get on a call to talk to will not buy the program. You need to accept that and realize that when you get into sales. I think that actually will build their confidence if they know, oh wait, Evan even only does 1 out of 10 sometimes. Hailey was at a point, one point, when she was only doing 1 out of 5. And they’re maybe looking at us as more confident with the sales side. Yeah, that’s normal. Not everyone’s just going to like flock and do this, otherwise everyone would do it.
So, you need to know those numbers. And when you start tracking them better, one, you can see if you’re improving over time. But two, you can also just kind of get a feel like, all right, this is just normal. So, if I’ve done a hundred calls and I know 20 people bought it, cool. If I do a hundred more calls, probably 20 are going to buy.
What’s so funny is, and you’ve probably experienced this a million times, isn’t it hilarious that if you do enough, it always averages out? Sometimes you get 10 dry and then 10 are on, and you’re like, yeah baby, it’s a great week.
Build Confidence: Entrepreneurship is a Mental Sport
[00:40:06] Hailey Rowe: It’s very cyclical. And it can be very easy to base your confidence on if people are saying yes or no to you. But the truth is that’s what kicks you in the booty as far as you showing up confidently, consistently in your business and on your calls.
Cause I’ve seen people like get a couple no’s and then be like, ugh. They feel this low in their business and then they’re not confident on their calls. Or they have bad energy and then they’re not trying as hard. Then they take a break for three weeks to recover from the rejection. You can’t let that stuff get to you. It’s a mental sport, learning how to be an entrepreneur.
But I will say, you can have a definitely higher conversion rate than that. I think what you said, you should go in with a low expectation so that you’re like, woohoo, when you close because that keeps your spirits like aligned. And when you’re feeling that way, you naturally are more captivating to people.
There was one other thing I wanted to say about what you just said. Tracking the numbers, you’re going to find, you’re going to have a certain number of no-shows. You’re going to have certain amount of time from when somebody meets you to when they actually sign up on average. We call that like what’s the sales cycle? So, tracking that kind of stuff can be really awesome.
And it also gets you out of, as you said, taking things personally and being emotional about it. You’re more so focused on the stats and just say, how can I improve my conversion rate and prevent my ghosting rate, and all that kind of stuff.
Build Confidence: Getting on a Roll
[00:41:26] Detective Ev: Right. It’s this ability and skill actually to remove yourself emotionally from the outcomes and stuff. At the very least, involve yourself positively, emotionally. Don’t go onto the call all negative, that’s the worst thing that you could do.
There was this phenomenon they actually taught me about when I did car sales at 18. The sales managers would say, every time, what’s the best time to sell a car? And it would be after you just sold one.
Saturday was always a busy day. If I had a bad week, I didn’t sell anything. The people that sold one usually sold three or four. It was like back-to-back to back. And it was different people every week. It wasn’t just like one or two people were dominating that. You’re like, how does this happen? Well, their energy’s different. Their confidence is different. So, don’t allow a few bad calls to screw you up.
And also, have faith in those numbers cause there’s laws of averages. Again, if you know that (making up the number), one out of five purchase and you’re 10 calls in for the week and maybe four haven’t purchased, you say, okay, cool. That’s just the four that don’t purchase. No worries. You can actually rejoice and say, my two are coming. They’re coming up really soon. They’re going to be here.
[00:42:27] Hailey Rowe: And not putting so much weight on every individual you book a call with. I see a lot of people thinking like, this one has to be the one, cause maybe they’re not booking a lot of calls. So, then they’re freaking out. They’re like, this one has to be the one.
Build Confidence: Pricing Arbitrarily
But then you’re not doing your job with sales cause you’re so focused on this heavy weight of, I need this client to say yes. So, you want to get out of that place. You want to be having a lot of opportunities, a lot of things going on in your business. Be creating those opportunities so that you’re not just putting so much weight on one or two people.
[00:43:00] Detective Ev: Yeah. The last thing I’ll say about what you said, cause you talked about pricing and stuff too.
I still do this to myself to this day, just so I always am staying in the right place mentality wise. Like at our business, we sell packages right now, at the time I’m recording this, between like $3300, $4500, sometimes even a little higher.
When someone buys that package, it’s one call and they just close out and say they bought it. I’m like, well, would they have paid $4,600? What if I said $4700, maybe $4800? Like, would that really have been the difference? Because this person said yes right away.
I mean, I’m not the expert like Hailey is, but this is the way that I build confidence with it. I’m saying, okay, they instantly just said yes to $4,500. You’re telling me $4600 would’ve been the make or break. And then you kind of wonder, well, how much of a difference there would there have been?
Now I’m not suggesting we just charge needlessly, but I’m also suggesting how arbitrarily sometimes we come up with our pricing and we allow our limiting beliefs to be our price. It’s like, no, they’re happy to pay that man. They want to work with you. You’re the one under charging for what you’re doing.
Build Confidence: Finding the Sweet Spot
You know, maybe just start a hundred dollars at a time, go up a hundred dollars each sale until you really start getting no’s. And then you’ve kind of hit your cap of what it’s worth. But I have found that helps.
You have anything like that? Or do you agree with this?
[00:44:06] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. I think with pricing, first of all, we don’t even call it pricing. It’s an investment in coaching. Because they’re investing. Right?
So, the other thing though with pricing is you want to pick a price that allows you to feel like you are overdelivering, but not like you’re going to resent this because you’re so undercharging and you’re just going to be exhausting yourself for this client and whatever. You also want it to feel a little bit out of your comfort zone so that you will be rising to the occasion. You will feel like, Ooh, I really gotta show up for this.
So, you want to pick that price kind of in that sweet spot. And for everybody starting out, that’s a different number for them.
And you’re so right that it is totally arbitrary. There are coaches who charge hourly session rates, which I’m not a huge fan of. Or there’s coaches who charge $25,000 for six months coaching, maybe. Right? It’s kind of crazy.
But the key is you gotta think about your market, about the value of the outcomes of what you offer, about your experience and what you feel confident saying out loud. Cause if you feel super awkward saying it out loud, the person on the other end is going to feel that for sure.
Build Confidence: Laddering
So, I kind of like your idea to ladder, meaning pick something, just line up with it and then as you get more confident with that and you know you’re undercharging, increase it.
I definitely didn’t start at the rates I am at today in my program. Originally, I did a test group that was pretty, it still costed money cause I wanted people to really pay attention in the test group and not just like, not show up and all of that. But it was significantly lower than what I charge today.
It gave me the confidence to realize, oh wow, I can actually do this. I can close a sale. And my program started to evolve and get more valuable. So, naturally you’ll just raise your price when you feel you’re ready for that.
[00:45:57] Detective Ev: I like that wording attached to it, laddering. It’s like, okay, cool. Start with the thing that you’re obviously comfortable with that isn’t so undercharging that you’re not delivering a good service now. Cause that’s kind of stupid too.
And then again, what’s a hundred bucks on a $2,000 package? It’s like, okay, well that probably wouldn’t have been the no. You keep doing that and all of a sudden, it builds the confidence slowly and steadily. That can happen.
Okay. As we’re getting to the end of our time here, we’ll finally work this in. I want to know if one of our practitioners is listening, I mean, you’ve already worked with FDNs. I’m not asking you to give away your secret sauce, but what would be the structure of what it would look like to come and work with you?
Build Confidence: F.A.S.T.
And Hailey, I also know that we’re just talking about sales today, but again, you do marketing and sales and some other things, so, I just want to make sure everyone’s clear about what you do and what it would look like to work with you.
[00:46:39] Hailey Rowe: Yeah. So, I customize, but I have a general kind of framework I share that kind of communicates some of the things I help clients with. It is grow your business the F.A.S.T. way. It’s an acronym and it stands for followers, action, sales, time management, and transformation.
With followers, it’s, who are you looking to attract, where do they hang out, and planning how are you going to reach those people every week and be nurturing them and leading to more discovery calls or whatever you’re trying to lead to with your sales process.
The action piece is how do you create content, messaging, and an offer that is compelling enough that people want to take action, they want to reach out to you? So, helping you with your content, helping you with your local marketing, pitches if you’re trying to do speaking, things like that.
Sales is, how do you lead your discovery calls, what we talked about a lot today and your sales process. What’s your upsell and your down sell? How do you price anchor and all that kind of stuff?
Time management is obviously where do you spend your time? Cause a lot of people feel overwhelmed about what should they be doing as a business owner to be generating clients.
Where to Find Hailey Rowe
And then transformation is, two things. The personal transformation required to get to your business goals. I’m the certified behavioral change specialist and a human potential coach. So, some of that life coaching might come into play if you have a huge mindset block. But some of my clients don’t even have that. They’re just like, gimme the strategy and we can do that.
And the other part of transformation is making sure the point A to point B of your program is very clear. You have something that differentiates yourself, you have testimonials with social proof you can use in your marketing to make it easier. Those are the kinds of things that I work on with clients.
And if anybody’s curious about that, they can go to haileyrowe.com/client-attraction and/or haileyrowe.com/sales-journal cause both of those are free gifts. The first one is going to teach you my four basics of client attraction and kind of help you go do the marketing part before you get the sales calls. And then the sales journal is more prompts to help you generate your next sale.
[00:48:49] Detective Ev: Yeah, of course. We’ll have that all in the show notes for you guys. I can’t recommend Hailey enough. And thank you so much for coming on today.
Normally, I finish with our signature question, which is, what would the guest get everyone in this world to do for their health? I will change it up today and say, if you can get every business owning FDN out there to do one thing for their business, what’s the one thing you’d get them to do?
Conclusion/Signature Podcast Question
[00:49:09] Hailey Rowe: Woo. I love that.
I would say, more willingness to fail and more willingness to dare yourself. So, give yourself a dare of posting about your business if you haven’t already, or pitching yourself to that podcast opportunity even though you think that’s a stretch or whatever. But I think we need to be more willing to just go put ourselves out there rather than just consuming, consuming, consuming information and not doing anything with it. So, that’d be my answer.
And if it was for your health, I just want to say this, nature walks. You know, I love solving all my problems on my walks.
[00:49:47] Detective Ev: That’s very cool. All right. Thank you so much again for joining us.
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2. Inflammation
3. Detoxification
Within the first days of regular use, sulforaphane is known for activating specific cellular repair pathways that help your body to heal damage within the gut lining and helps restore the conditions required for the growth of healthy gut bacteria¹. These important changes can contribute to improved regularity and digestive effects occurring within the first week of use.
Improved bowel regularity is usually the first sign that Broc Shot is beginning to work. You’ll probably notice your regularity improve after only a few days, but as your gut adjusts, there’s a small chance that you may experience some mild gassiness and increased urges to go. These effects are similar to what you’d experience from a pre or probiotic and typically subside within 2-3 days.
Sulforaphane vs Laxatives
The most common form of relief for constipation are laxatives and over-the-counter (OTC) medications that are a temporary solution. Sulforaphane works to address the root causes of constipation to get things moving and help keep you regular longer term.
Sulforaphane helps with collagen production making your hair, nails and skin glow from the inside out!
I have also listed broccoli sprouts as the top cancer-fighting and cancer-preventing food on the planet because of it’s rich compound sulforaphane. It’s been studied for over 30 years and has proven to be effective in reducing or destroying all cancer cells. One study showed how Sulforaphane decreased human breast cancer cells, and reduced the size and number of primary mammospheres by 8~125-fold and 45%~75%, respectively. And it’s not just breast cancer cells broccoli sprouts can reduce, it’s all types of cancer cells.
The Broc Shot is scientifically superior. Don’t be fooled as not all sulforaphane products are created equal. In fact, most don’t produce sulforaphane at all! Most on the market are extracts without sulforaphane or were synthetic (aka stabilized). Broc Shot takes a number of steps to ensure that each dose provides a consistent yield of no less than 15mg of sulforaphane (SFN).
Broc Shot ensure quality and proof is in their seed selection. Their process begins at seed selection which is a 20-fold variation in the bioactive in a broccoli sprout. The seeds they use have a higher sulforaphane yield than one could buy at a store or typically grow at home. Their selection process includes tests done at the seed level to help yield a consistent amount of at least 15mg of sulforaphane from approximately 12-15 grams of our fresh sprouts, being that they are the highest quality/yield seed. For reference to ingest 15mg of SFN from a grocery store / or homegrown sprouts, you would likely need to eat about 200-400 grams of sprouts. Broc Shot is potent with health benefits!
The sprouts are grown to 3 days old and then are dried and milled to make the broccoli sprout powder. Broc Shot sprouts are never freeze-dried. While freeze-drying is considered by many to be the superior drying process for plant materials, for enzyme-based plants, it is destructive and so it is not appropriate for cruciferous plants. They also never use extracts or synthetic sulforaphane. Their sprouts are NON-GMO and grown hydroponically, a process that combines hydroponic + pesticide/herbicide-free cultivation systems. They don’t use any agricultural/environmental chemical pesticides or herbicide residues at any stage of their process.
To let you in on the manufacturing process Broc Shot use facilities that are HACCP-certified + SQF certified (globally recognized Food Safety + Quality standards). They are compliant with GMP standards and registered with US FDA + TGA (Australian FDA).
They test at multiple points during growing and manufacturing, including testing at seed level to determine which seeds will yield a strong sulforaphane level as well as third-party test each final batch to confirm it yields no less than (NLT) 15mg of sulforaphane. They also test for chemical residue + heavy metal contamination, as well as to assess the microbiological profile. No product is released unless it passes their strict standards.
More on their new packaging so you can be rest assured you contributing to waste: Broc Shot are excited to be leaders in packaging sustainability. Their sachets are derived from wood pulp, sugarcane and cornstarch. They are proud to be conventional plastic-free* and foil-free as well as certified BPI commercial compostable with 90% degradation in 6 months. Each Broc Shot starter kit includes a reusable, stainless steel shaker for a perfectly dosed shot.
BPI certification is North America’s leading certifier of compostable products and packaging.
*current packaging is commercially compostable and includes an interior lining that is bioplastic from natural sources
100% Plastic-Free + Foil-Free. By Fall 2023, they will no longer be using bioplastics, therefore their packaging will be 100% plastic-free and foil-free, as well as both commercial and home compostable.
While they no longer offer their single-use shots, they are proud of our previous efforts to keep those out of landfills and waterways. Broc Shot was launched originally with a single-use patented dosing cap for a convenient, effective freshly mixed shot. With only 9-10% of plastics being recycled in the US, they partnered with Terracycle, to recycle them into long-use things we need like school desks, park benches, and playground equipment. With each order, customers received a pre-paid shipping label to send their empties at no cost to TerraCycle. This program successfully helped keep over 30k bottles out of waterways and landfills.
I am so excited for you guys to try the new sustainable Broc Shots! Join me every day and cheers with a shot of sulforaphane.
Get them at a discounted price with 15% off just make sure to use my code: LIANA at BrocShot.com
We believe that whole food, from scratch cooking is one of the best ways to support our health, our family’s health and the health of the environment. Trouble is, cooking from scratch is often considered extravagant or time-consuming when in reality it can be much simpler once you make it a priority. Even so, we all need a little extra help to speed up the process in our busy lives and this is where these 20 healthy kitchen hacks enter the scene.
If you’re struggling to get dinner on the table and feeling stressed about doing it, try some of our favourite healthy kitchen hacks to help transform mealtimes into a wonderful way to relax and unwind at the end of the day. These tips are simple to implement and while some of them take some advance planning, the results (and your sanity) are well worth the effort.
20 healthy kitchen hacks to get dinner on the table faster
1. Stick to simple recipes.
There are times when it’s joyful to languish in the kitchen while creating an involved, elaborate meal – but not when you’ve arrived home at 7pm after a long workday or a tough commute. Instead, stick to simple recipes (there are a ton of 5-ingredient wonders out there) that are nourishing and filling.
For example, try pairing your protein of choice (meat, fish, eggs, beans, tofu, etc.) with your favourite roasted or steamed vegetables. Amp up the flavour with lemon and sea salt, or try one of these five ways to add flavour to any meal.
2. Enlist family members for help.
Why should you be the one stuck with all of the work and pressure of getting dinner on the table? Enlist your family members, partners, spouses, roommates or friends to help you in the kitchen. Throw on some tunes and make a party of it.
The group effort will complete the prepping and chopping in a flash, and help teach the youngsters (or cooking-challenged grownups) valuable culinary skills they can use for a lifetime.
3. Meal plan in advance and save those plans to be re-used.
Healthy eating is much easier when you’ve got a plan in place to make it happen – and this is one of the kitchen hacks we use most at the Academy of Culinary Nutrition. While a meal plan that includes breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks is helpful, if you’re new to meal planning you can start off with creating a menu for dinners only if that’s easier. Chart your meals for the week (you can even plan to make large batches and have the leftovers for lunch) and include any recipes you’ll need and a shopping list.
Once you have a sheaf of meal plans at the ready, all you’ll need to do is pull one out, pick up the necessary ingredients and get to work. The more you repeat meal plans in your rotation, the easier it will be to shop, prep and cook for them.
4. Create a prep schedule.
A detailed prep schedule allows you to actually implement your menu plan successfully. For each recipe, write out the ingredients and how they need to be prepped (sliced, chopped, blended, soaked, etc.). Then assign yourself or someone in your family to complete that prep task and note when they need to do it.
We recommend integrating prep schedules with your menu plans so you can get into a groove and re-use them later.
5. Prep on the weekend.
Let’s face it: the majority of the work involved in cooking is actually chopping, not the cooking itself. Save yourself the time and effort during the week by doing prep on a Saturday or Sunday (or whenever your ‘weekend’ days are). Then, all you’ll need to do is assemble and cook and dinnertime will happen much, much quicker.
Some prep tasks might include:
chopping produce in various sizes (depending on what’s needed for different recipes) and sealing them in jars.
making one or two full recipes to have for dinner on Monday or Tuesday (if you work a Mon-Fri workweek)
Menu prep can take a couple of hours, but if you throw on some music or a TV show it can be more enjoyable. Plus, if everyone in the household lends a hand your prep time will be quick and easy.
6. Use up the ingredients in your fridge.
Don’t stop at the grocery store on the way home to cook dinner – assess what you’ve got in your fridge and use it to create a delicious meal. This not only cuts down on food waste, but also saves you some cash.
Easy meals like stir-fries, soups, stews and pasta can be thrown together quickly with a variety of veggies and herbs that are lying around in your fridge. Fridge-scrap dinners are easy – the only problem is you may not be able to recreate them in the exact same way again!
7. Skip recipes altogether and cook what you know.
Cooking from recipes is enjoyable and exposes us to fresh flavours, new techniques and ingredients, but when dinner needs to happen it’s better to cook what you know rather than taking the extra time to follow something novel. This is especially important when you’re new to menu planning – if you try to cook half a dozen new recipes in a week the learning curve will be much steeper.
Save yourself some time by cooking what you know at first and adding in new recipes as you feel ready to tackle them, or during the weekend when you have more opportunity to play.
8. Cook seasonal meals.
Nature has its own innate kitchen hacks – and that’s local and seasonal ingredients! Using what’s available locally means you’ll spend less time searching for ingredients. Also, when food is in season and local it travels less from farm to plate. This means it will taste fresher and meals will require less adornment because the ingredients themselves will shine, shine, shine.
9. Use high-quality ingredients.
Buy the best quality ingredients that you can afford. As with the seasonal meal kitchen hack above, when your ingredients are amazing you won’t need to do as much cooking and transformation to make them taste delicious.
10. Build a well-stocked pantry.
The secret to creating quick and easy meals is building a well-stocked pantry that you can draw upon when you need dinner, stat. Begin to stock your pantry, fridge and freezer with basic ingredients such as:
Dried beans and legumes (chickpeas, lentils, split peas, black beans, kidney beans, etc.)
Dried spices
Oils (check out this guide to healthy oils for which ones to use for high-heat, medium-heat and low-heat cooking)
Frozen veggies (peas, greens, carrots, etc.)
BPA-free canned goods
With these basic pantry ingredients, you can easily throw together a meal of beans and rice, and pair it with whatever veggies happen to be around, or create a satisfying dairy-free soup that you can pair with gluten-free bread or biscuits.
11. Work on your stash of freezer meals.
It doesn’t get much easier than pulling a tasty meal out of your freezer and popping it in the oven to reheat. When you have some spare time on the weekend, try making a freezer meal.
Soups, stews, lasagna, enchiladas, shepherd’s pie and veggie burgers are all easily freezable and can be made in large batches. It takes a little bit of extra work up front, but your future self will thank you!
12. Skip the stocks and broths.
While we adore homemade vegetable broths and nourishing bone broths, they’re not always quick and convenient unless you’ve made large batches of them and popped them in the freezer. Instead of broth, you can easily substitute water in any recipe – and since many recipes call for onions, garlic, carrots and celery anyway, you’re basically making a broth as the food simmers.
13. Skip the sauces.
Use basic seasonings like a squeeze of lemon or lime, gluten-free tamari, coconut aminos, sea salt, mustard or olive oil to flavour your food. If you feel up to a challenge on the weekend, you could make your own simple condiments. Make one condiment and use it on everything for the next week or two so it doesn’t go to waste.
14. Pre-make salad dressings.
Salad dressings are simple to make and can be easily incorporated into your prep schedule. A basic salad dressing will use oil, an acid, herbs and salt. Shake up a dressing on the weekend to use on salads all week.
If you’d like to learn more about creating flavour profiles for salad dressings, check out this post about How to Make Salad Dressing.
15. Master the one-pot meals.
Dinners that involve a main dish and sides are more work than one-pot wonders. Protein-rich soups, stews and chilis are wonderfully filling options and can be easily adjusted based on seasonal offerings and the spices you have on hand. They’re also a great way to use up any produce left in the fridge!
16. Put your slow cooker or Instant Pot to work.
Slow cookers, Instant Pots, rice cookers and other low-effort appliances are one of the best lifesaving kitchen hacks in a busy household. All you need is a little bit of prep and chopping, and then six to eight hours later (or minutes to an hour later with the Instant Pot) you’re gifted with a healthy and delicious meal. These 20 Best Slow Cooker Recipes include some of our favourite recipes to get you started!
Image: iStock/nata_vkusidey
17. Make DIY dinners.
Transform dinner into a ‘choose your own adventure’ situation and everyone assembles their own plate from an array of prepped ingredients. For example:
A build-your-own taco bar with fresh veggies, beans, salsa and other toppings.
A build-your-own pho bar with fresh veggies, tempeh, herbs and lime
A make-your-own healthy pizza with individual corn tortillas for a thin crust and top with sauce and veggie toppings
It’s a win-win for everyone with these kinds of dinners.
18. Have breakfast for dinner.
Most of us don’t spend a lot of time making breakfast, so why not use the brevity of breakfast recipes and have them for an amazingly flavourful and easy dinner? Try:
The key with breakfast for dinner is aiming for savory flavour profiles and plenty of fresh vegetables, rather than relying on the sweets. Here are 12 vegan breakfast ideas – that aren’t cereal or toast – to offer you plenty of breakfast-for-dinner inspiration.
19. Make use of good kitchen equipment.
Dinner will move along much quicker when you’ve got the right tools on hand. Appliances like high-spend blenders and food processors help with blending and grating, but they’re not absolutely essential kitchen hacks for a great meal.
Ensure that you have a sharp knife that is appropriate for the task at hand. A good chef’s knife is one of our most-used tools, but you may also find you like using a paring knife as well. Find the knife that feels best in your hand and learn some simple knife skills – this will help you chop easily and safely.
Other simple tools that you may find handy are a solid cutting board, a box grater, a vegetable peeler or a microplane grater.
20. Go (mostly) raw when seasons allow for it.
Raw food can be much quicker to prepare than cooked because you don’t need to take the extra time to cook it (obviously). We’re not talking about dehydrated kale chips or dehydrated almond burgers – but fresh, raw food like salads, zucchini noodles or collard wraps that rely on fresh produce and herbs.
Aim for one or two raw or mostly raw dinners per week when the weather is warm and more fresh produce is in season.
What are your favourite kitchen hacks? Share away in the comments!
Yes, that’s right, Brisbane will host the 2032 Olympics. Brisbane city is one of my favorite cities in Australia, home to my family and many friends. It has a special place in my heart. Location wise it’s a portal to the Sunny Coast, Gold Coast, and Byron Bay. Since I’ve been spending more time in Brisbane lately I have been on the hunt for the cleanest most wholesome (and obviously delicious) places in and around the city. Here is what I’ve found! Save this for your visit, or share with your friends and family, especially if they are going to the Olympics.
My definition of a “clean restaurant” is in terms of an establishment that prioritizes the use of high-quality, wholesome, and unprocessed food items. It focuses on sourcing fresh produce, grass-fed or pasture meats, wild and sustainable seafood, and other ingredients that are free from artificial additives, preservatives, hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides. A clean ingredient restaurant may emphasize organic, locally sourced, or responsibly grown ingredients to ensure their nutritional value and minimize environmental impact. Such a restaurant typically avoids processed or heavily packaged foods, opting instead for whole and minimally processed ingredients. The emphasis is on providing meals that are not only delicious but also nourishing and aligned with a health-conscious approach to dining.
Dining this way you have your cake and eat it too – literally. The taste is so worthy that you may not even realize they are using cleaner ingredients.
(Prepare for this list to expand as I explore more food spots!)
1.Opa Bar & Mezze
Located on the Brisbane River with riverside views.
Opa was recognized by Urban List as one of Brisbane’s most beautiful restaurants! Visiting Opa’s Bar in Brisbane promises an unforgettable Greek experience, complete with delicious clean food, a lively vibe, and a warm atmosphere that will transport you straight to Greece. Opa!
Here are a few reasons why you would love to visit:
Mouthwatering Greek cuisine: Indulge in a delectable array of Greek dishes that are bursting with flavor. From classic favorites, Opa’s serves up authentic Greek delicacies that will leave you craving more.
Clean ingredients: Opa’s is a Mediterranean” style menu of eating that emphasizes wholesome, unprocessed foods commonly found in Mediterranean cuisine. It focuses on fresh, nutrient-rich ingredients, often including fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins (such as fish and poultry), legumes, nuts, and olive oil. The term “clean” in this context implies a focus on natural and minimally processed foods, while the “Mediterranean” aspect refers to the traditional eating patterns of countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea, such as Greece, Italy, Spain, and others. This style of eating has been associated with various health benefits, including reduced risk of heart disease, improved weight management, and overall well-being.
Authentic Greek atmosphere: Opa’s Bar immerses you in the lively ambiance of Greece. From the traditional decor to the energetic music, you’ll feel like you’ve stepped into a Greek taverna. Situated right on the Brisbane River so you enjoy a gorgeous view while you dine, including the Story Bridge and palm trees. It’s an open-air setting so you can dine while enjoying the fresh air and outdoor ambiance. It’s a combination that provides the best of both worlds, allowing you to enjoy the benefits of being outdoors while still dining inside.
Warm hospitality: The staff at Opa’s Bar are known for their warm and friendly service, making you feel like part of the family. Their dedication to creating a welcoming environment adds an extra touch of authenticity to your visit.
Opa’s Bar in Brisbane offers a unique and vibrant experience that shouldn’t be missed!
2. Three Blue Ducks at the Farm
Located in Byron Bay about two hours south of Brisbane.
It’s true farm-to-table when you visit an actual farm that also has a restaurant on it! The Farm at Byron Bay is a working farm with pasture-fed animals, plant nursery & a sustainable market garden with tours, an onsite restaurant & a bakery. You can easily spend hours here!
The farm vegetable dish was outstanding and a highlight for me. Incredibly fresh and beautiful. It’s amazing to know that they had just been picked and are now on the plate.
The restaurant on the farm is Three Blue Ducks created by five mates who are passionate about nourishing the community with ethical, authentic, quality food and hospitality. They endeavor to source as much as possible from The Farm and then they venture further afield.
They embrace produce that is organic or spray-free and sustainably farmed to make all the meals on their menu. They get almost everything from the local area when it is in season, from southern Queensland to as far down as Port Macquarie. Their dishes are a reflection of their shared ethos for creating honest, seasonal dishes that are packed with nutrients and full of flavor. This is what we call ‘real food’.
Their space is purposefully designed to be low-key but comfortable. The undercover outdoor patio offers sweeping views from Byron’s hinterland in the west, north to Mt Warning, and east to Cape Byron Lighthouse. The terrace is home to their very own 12-meter outdoor kitchen, including a double spit, a wood-fire pizza oven, and an Argentinian grill that they love to fire up on weekends and for private events.
Their bar offers 56 taps of all Australian craft beers, wines and ciders and a selection of unique cocktails to cater to all tastes.
Every Thursday it’s mussels night! A taste of the ocean that will leave you craving more.
I have enjoyed many meals at Three Blue Ducks and have taken day trips to enjoy Byron Bay and this delicious food. On mussels night I enjoyed a mussels meal that was paired with garlic bread & v butter, olives with chilli, lemon, and bay leaf, mixed pickles, farm leaves, herb & macadamia dressing, prawn toast with kaffir lime and polenta gnocchi with pumpkin and pepita seeds pesto (gf, df, vg).
Every Thursday night for the rest of winter will be mussels night, with natural wine and a fire pit.
Overall, Three Blue Ducks in Byron Bay combines delectable cuisine, a captivating ambiance, and a commitment to sustainability, making it a must-visit destination for food lovers and those seeking a memorable dining experience in the area. I’m so excited about their cozy Thursday mussels night.
3. Felons Brewing Co.
Located at Howard Smith Wharves on the Brisbane river
Felons Brewing Co. is a popular brewery and restaurant situated on the picturesque Howard Smith Wharves precinct. Felons is known for its diverse food options and focus on quality ingredients. There is something for the entire family in a fun atmosphere.
At Felons, you can expect a range of dishes that cater to various tastes and dietary preferences. Their menu typically includes a selection of appetizers, share plates, burgers, salads, seafood, and more. They often showcase modern Australian cuisine with a focus on fresh, locally sourced ingredients. I always choose the local snapper or coral fish with salad as my meal. It is fresh and refreshing, and that’s all I need to satisfy me, perhaps with a glass of Rose – haha!
Some examples of food you might find at Felons could include dishes like fish and chips, gourmet burgers, wood-fired pizzas, grilled meats, fresh salads, and seafood platters. They also offer vegetarian and vegan options to accommodate different dietary needs.
In addition to the food, Felons Brewing Co. is renowned for its selection of craft beers, brewed on-site. They offer a variety of styles, including pale ales, lagers, IPAs, and seasonal brews, providing visitors with a wide range of beer choices to complement their meals.
The waterfront location of Felons provides a beautiful setting, allowing guests to enjoy their food and drinks while taking in the scenic views of the Brisbane River and the surrounding area.
4. Rudy’s Real Food
Located in Surfers Paradise about one hour south of Brisbane
When you are looking for an organic place to eat in Surfers Paradise, Australia! Rudy’s Real Food is an organic cafe – I went for breakfast which was divine and I can’t wait to go back for lunch and dinner! It’s such a unique cafe, they have everything from an all-day healthy menu, so grass-fed steak, organic cold-pressed juices, organic chicken, vegan power bowls, unsweetened almond flour pancakes, and more!
Rudy’s Real Food think there is a lot that could improve with the general diet and they wanted to provide the tools to do it. They noticed so many of us really do put an effort into eating clean and nutritious but sometimes it’s hard to find the food. Eating healthy should be easy and fun! “It’s time for us to wake up. The food we eat and give to our children is the future of the world and the ground for their future health. Much of the food that we put in our bodies today lack of nutrition, it is what we call empty calories pumped with toxins. And the problem isn’t always that we eat too much which many of us may think. The real problem is that we don’t eat enough valuable nutrition. This makes us rather sick than happy and we believe one big reason for this is the lack of education around nutrition. We want to remind you that every action counts and that there is always an opportunity to give your body the best possible opportunity to heal itself. Because Food is our medicine and medicine is our food.”
Rudy’s Real Food has gathered a team of absolute health nuts containing: nutritionists, chefs, personal trainers, athletes, and more ready to work with us – whether you want a customized program, the answer to a question, or maybe just some inspiration. We put so much time into shaping our bodies from the outside – when the key to optimal health starts from the inside. Make your Health your priority and you will never forget it. Fuel your body with nutritious healthy food and your body will thank you. Let’s stop all dieting and choose a healthy lifestyle for life!
5. Helen’s Bulk Wholefoods
Located in Burleigh Heads about 1 hour and 20 minutes south of Brisbane
One of the top 10 açaí bowls I’ve had in the world from here! And I’m telling you I eat açaí bowls for a living! They also have decadent raw and vegan treats.
Helen Gibson has been a prominent figure on the well-known James Street in Central Burleigh Heads for 25 years now. Her bustling shop, Helen’s Heavenly Bulk Foods, attracts a wide variety of locals and tourists who peruse through the vast array of nuts and seeds; cereals; baking goods; herbs & spices; teas & powders; delicious chocolate covered nuts & berries, organic and non-organic goodies on display.
Helen embraced the bulk food store with the philosophy of what she calls the 3 P’s in good business- SAVE PENNIES, SAVE PACKAGING & SAVE THE PLANET. Pop into Helen’s today and peruse the selection of chemical-free and organic skin and beauty products, vitamins & supplements and enjoy the low prices that only a bulk food supplier can offer!
Right next door is her cafe that is serving up delicious options for all dietary preferences from gluten-free, vegan and vegetarian.
Make sure to try an açaí bowl and load it up with all the superfoods!
6. Manly Boat House
Located in Manly about 20 minutes from the city and right on the boat harbor
True sea-to-table is at Manly Boathouse. A modern Australian and seafood-focused restaurant with unrivaled wraparound views of Moreton Bay. With a chic beach resort-inspired interior and high ceilings, the atmosphere reminds me of an Aussie version of Ibiza meets Miami. Located in Manly and is well worth visiting when in Brisbane.
I enjoyed the catch of the day, a local fish the owner himself caught. Blue-eye trevalla, also known as blue-eye cod, is considered by many people to be one of the finest table fish caught in Australia. The owner has a fishing license and enjoys catching fresh fish for us diners. The local fish in Queensland is fresh and delicious!
Other options The Earth Diet style on the menu are oysters, king prawn cocktail, barramundi, slow-cooked lamb shoulder, bbq Tasmanian scallops, obe organic and chopped broccoli salad.
Manly Boat House also grow their own herbs which I love.
You can sit right on the water and watch the boats come in from a sail. We enjoyed this taste of seaside relaxation.
7. Grill’d
A burger chain located in Brisbane, the Gold Coast, and Sunshine Coast
Grill’d is a popular burger chain known for its focus on fresh ingredients, made-to-order burgers, and healthier alternatives compared to traditional fast food options.
Grill’d prides itself on using high-quality ingredients, including 100% grass-fed, free-range beef and chicken, along with fresh vegetables and whole grains. These ingredients provide essential nutrients, such as protein, vitamins, and minerals, which are important for a balanced diet.
At Grill’d, you have the freedom to customize your burger to suit your dietary preferences and needs. They offer a range of options, including vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free, and low-carb choices. This customization allows you to control the ingredients and portion sizes, making it easier to make healthier choices that align with your specific dietary goals.
Grill’d emphasizes a balanced approach to eating. They offer a variety of burger options that incorporate lean proteins, fresh produce, and whole grains. Additionally, they provide nutritional information on their menu, helping you make informed choices about the calories, fat, and other nutritional aspects of your meal. This transparency empowers you to select options that align with your health goals and dietary preferences.
Soko Brisbane is a popular Japanese restaurant located in Brisbane, known for its authentic cuisine and dining experience.
Soko Brisbane offers a wide range of traditional authentic Japanese dishes, prepared with care and attention to detail. From sushi and sashimi to ramen and tempura, you can expect to find a variety of classic Japanese flavors and delicacies. The use of fresh ingredients and traditional cooking techniques helps to ensure an authentic dining experience that showcases the rich and diverse culinary heritage of Japan.
Soko Brisbane emphasizes the use of high-quality ingredients in their dishes. They source fresh seafood, premium meats, and seasonal produce to create flavorful and nutritious meals. This commitment to quality ingredients not only enhances the taste of the food but also contributes to a healthier dining experience.
Soko Brisbane provides a warm and inviting atmosphere that reflects the charm and elegance of Japanese culture. The restaurant’s interior design, decor, and attentive service create an ambiance that transports you to Japan, allowing you to immerse yourself in the dining experience. Whether you’re looking for a fancy fancy, casual lunch, or a special dinner, Soko Brisbane offers a unique setting to enjoy Japanese cuisine.
Suburban West End is a popular restaurant located in the vibrant neighborhood of West End in Brisbane.
Suburban West End offers a creative and eclectic menu that showcases a fusion of global flavors and culinary influences. From small plates to hearty mains, their menu features a range of dishes that cater to various tastes and dietary preferences. You can expect innovative flavor combinations, fresh ingredients, and carefully crafted dishes that bring together diverse culinary traditions. This variety allows you to explore different flavors and try new culinary experiences.
Suburban West End places a strong emphasis on sourcing local and sustainable ingredients. They prioritize using seasonal produce, organic products, and ethically sourced meats and seafood whenever possible. This commitment to supporting local producers and practicing sustainable sourcing ensures the freshness and quality of the ingredients used in their dishes. It also promotes the sustainability of local food systems and reduces the carbon footprint associated with food production.
Suburban West End are popular for their epic breakfast and brunch menu including their Smashed Avocado toast, Breakfast Nachos, and West End Stack (they also have vegan nachos). I love their green smoothie and açaí bowl!
Ambrosias’ main menu is designed to provide beautiful Mediterranean cuisine in a casual and relaxed setting. Its inspiration comes from the distinctive flavors of the Mediterranean offering our diners an assortment of tapas and main dishes from counties including Greece, Turkey, Morrocco and France.
The all-day and night food and drinks menu suits whatever mood you are in. Light meals, small plates or main meals are available from 12pm and are complimented by our boutique roasted coffee, cocktails and wine.
Ambrosia and Co is also a popular cafe, known for its delightful desserts and specialty coffee offerings. The cafe prides itself on using high-quality ingredients to create delicious treats that satisfy the sweet tooth. From decadent cakes to artisan chocolates, Ambrosia and Co offer a wide range of indulgent options that are crafted with care and attention to detail.
While Ambrosia and Co’s offerings may be on the indulgent side, it’s worth noting that the healthiness of Ambrosia and Co’s offerings can be attributed to a few factors. First, they prioritize using quality ingredients, which can enhance the overall nutritional value of their desserts. By using fresh fruits, natural sweeteners, and premium chocolates, Ambrosia and Co ensure that their treats contain higher quality components.
Furthermore, Ambrosia and Co recognize the importance of balance and variety in a healthy diet. While their menu includes indulgent desserts, they also offer options that cater to different dietary preferences and restrictions. This can include gluten-free, dairy-free, or vegan options, allowing individuals with specific dietary needs to enjoy their treats without compromising their health goals. I enjoyed the gluten-free toast with avocado and eggs, with the Mermaid Latte.
More about Brisbane…
Brisbane is the capital city of the Australian state of Queensland. Located on the eastern coast of Australia, it is known for its vibrant and relaxed atmosphere. Brisbane is bisected by the Brisbane River, which adds to the city’s charm. The river serves as a focal point for recreational activities, waterfront dining, and cultural events. Queensland enjoys a subtropical climate with warm to hot summers and mild winters. The city’s pleasant weather makes outdoor activities and exploring its numerous parks and gardens enjoyable year-round. The cityscape of Brisbane features a mix of modern skyscrapers and historic buildings. The modern skyline is dominated by iconic structures like the Story Bridge and the Wheel of Brisbane. Queensland is known as a city of parks, with abundant green spaces that provide opportunities for recreation and relaxation.
Brisbane’s culinary scene is diverse and evolving, with numerous restaurants, cafes, and food markets offering a variety of cuisines. From trendy eateries to casual riverside dining, there is something to suit every taste.
Brisbane is often described as a friendly and welcoming city. Its residents, known as “Brisbanites,” are known for their laid-back nature and hospitality. It’s one of the friendliest atmospheres you will find in Australia.
These are just a few highlights of Brisbane, a city that combines natural beauty, quality dining experiences, and a relaxed lifestyle.
I am so excited for you to visit, as the Brisbane and surrounding area food scene is ready to impress!
Sweet potatoes are one of my favorite vegetables and a delicious way for me to tick off the “other vegetables” boxes on my Daily Dozen checklist.
What has the latest research on their benefits found? What is the best way to cook them? This infographic summarizes the main takeaways and features some simple recipes.
Jennifer Woodward holds a Master’s of Science in Integrative Nutrition and is a certified Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner and a Board Certified Functional Wellness Coach.
She is also the Executive Director of the Association of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Professionals where she is mentored by course creator Reed Davis. Jennifer is also the creator of the acclaimed FDN Business School, and she loves getting to help new FDNs thrive professionally.
Jennifer was recently a quarter-long guest lecturer in graduate Endocrinology at Parker University and also completed a three-month-long internship with Dr. Kyrin Dunston, getting hands-on training in women’s hormones.
[00:00:00] Detective Ev: What is going on, my friends? Welcome back to another episode of the Health Detective Podcast by Functional Diagnostic Nutrition. My name is Evan Transue, aka Detective Ev. I will be your host for today’s show all about Biocanic.
We have a pretty interesting guest on. His name is Jeremy Malecha, and his wife is the entire reason that I’m on this podcast right now. What I mean by that is it is his wife that I heard talking in a coffee shop over six years ago now. She was an FDN practitioner talking to, I don’t know, 20 or 30 people about what she offered.
I went up and talked to her and she was nice enough to take me out to lunch, talk to me about FDN, got me on the phone with Reed Davis, the founder of FDN, and we just chatted, man. I ended up signing up like less than a month later and getting involved. It’s been a crazy journey ever since. So many things have aligned to work this out and it’s hilarious to me that I’m doing the podcast now. I just think that’s full circle.
The reason we’re having Jeremy on is not because he is a health coach or anything like that. It is actually because he has a very specific service that he offers to both FDNs, yes, but also every other type of health professional can benefit from this. Here’s his background and then I’ll explain a little bit more of what we’re talking about.
Jeremy’s Background
Jeremy Malecha is CEO and co-founder of Biocanic with over 20 years of healthcare and software-related experience. Prior to Biocanic, he was the Vice President of Strategy and ResMed’s SaaS Business. Across his 10 year plus career at ResMed, he also held senior leadership roles overseeing global product management across the product portfolio and was the lead person behind the conceptualization and launch of the ResMed digital health ecosystem.
Today, Jeremy is a catalyst for building a new integrative medicine marketplace rooted in the power of health intelligence and consumer advocacy so society can take back control of their health and wellness in a post-pandemic world. He holds a Bachelor of Engineering in Biomedical Engineering from Northwestern University in addition to multiple patents in signal processing for medical applications.
I gotta be honest, I didn’t know Jeremy as well before doing this podcast and getting to see him recently at a conference, they’re just, Jeremy and Jenn that is, two really impressive people. They are two peas in a pod, I will also say that, but fascinating folks, very successful in what they’re doing.
What we’re talking about today, I already kind of mentioned this in the beginning of his bio, is Biocanic. Biocanic is a platform that would be similar, definitely, in my opinion, better, but similar to things like GetHealthy or Practice Better.
Now, what’s really interesting about Biocanic is, remember, Jenn Malecha is a long-term FDN, been doing it for I think almost 10 years, if not over 10 years at this point, and she has worked at high levels in FDN as well. So, she no longer does that, but she’s been a strategic business partner at times, she’s been head of sales at times. So, she knows FDN in and out.
Biocanic: Customized Client Management System
One of the reasons Jeremy created Biocanic was because he saw a need that Jenn was exposing as she was working with more and more health coaches. It’s really, really cool to see all of this come together.
Basically, Biocanic is a completely customized way of managing and dealing with your clients. It’s a lot more than that. I think this is one of those times where I could talk about every little feature and benefit, I’d be doing you a disservice. It’s better to hear about it in the podcast.
And another thing to note is this is one of those ones where we do actually have a YouTube video to go along with this just so you can get a visual. It’s not for the entire time. In fact, it doesn’t even start until I think 14 minutes into the recording itself, and it only goes for like 10- or 15-minutes tops. So, if you want to see the platform and get more of a tour with it, that’s how you could do it. But this is still totally a podcast that could be digested solely through your ears.
I know at my business we’re really excited to get to use this stuff. I had never really looked into these softwares before because I had only been doing, as you guys know, if you’re regular listeners, I had been only taking clients here and there because I was mostly doing public speaking in schools.
Biocanic: Time Saver
And now as I am expanding Bucks County Light Therapy and I have a few FDNs under me that are relying on me to get them clients, I’m realizing I want to make their lives as easy as possible so that they can be in their zone of genius, which is working with the people and helping them get better. And all these tools, all these systems that we have access to, something like Biocanic, we should be using that stuff so that we can focus on being in our zone of genius.
In fact, this is crazy to me. Jeremy even said that he believes this system, once you get this down and once you learn how to use this software, can actually save about 60% of the time that you would normally spend with a client. Now, this doesn’t mean the client’s getting less of a service. In fact, they’re actually probably getting a better one, that’s the best part.
But imagine what you could do if you had 20 active clients and all of a sudden, I could say, okay, I’ll give you 60% of your time back that you spend working with them. Well, wouldn’t that mean that you could then effectively double to 40 clients and really not spend any extra energy? I would say so.
When I said they’re two peas in a pod, it’s so cool to see Jenn and Jeremy come together. Because I’ve always thought of Jenn as this highly systematic, very efficient person. Then you meet Jeremy, and you’re like, oh my goodness. Like these two, where the heck did you find each other? Because they’re perfect for each other. With all that said, I want you guys to enjoy today’s episode. I hope you like this one.
Biocanic: A Different Approach to Practitioner Support
And if you have any questions about Biocanic, we will have where you can reach out to them below. Alternatively, if you have a question for us specifically at FDN, you can always reach out to us at fdntraining on Instagram. Without further ado, let’s get to today’s episode.
All right. Hello there, Jeremy. Welcome to the Health Detective Podcast. How are you?
[00:05:45] Jeremy Malecha: Great. Thanks for having me on. I’m really looking forward to this.
[00:05:48] Detective Ev: Yeah. It’s only fair. I mean, it’s kind of funny. So, just to connect this for people really quick, it is Jeremy’s wife, Jenn Malecha, who was on twice with this show so far. She was like episode five. Jenn is the exact person that actually got me into FDN.
If it wasn’t for her giving a talk that day, I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever heard of FDN organically. I would’ve always heard it from someone in the community. So, I don’t think I would’ve known about this had it not been for Jenn, which is kind of crazy looking at all the stuff I’m doing with them now and just how much it’s helped my life and my family’s life. And you are also doing a lot for practitioners just in a completely different way, very inner role, but completely different way.
Then I found out all of 30 seconds before recording that you actually have a health story, which I did not realize. Guys, what we’re about to do is totally authentic, totally organic. I did not know Jeremy actually dealt with health stuff. So, before we talk about Biocanic and the thing that you created, let’s just start there. What did the health symptoms look like and what were you going through?
Biocanic: Lots of Testing, Lots of Data
[00:06:42] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah, I mean, look, I was Jenn’s first client, right? So, any typical FDN graduate does start on themselves in the course and then they start with their friends and family.
Detective Ev: Yes.
Jeremy Malecha: So, I was obviously the first guinea pig. But background, biomedical engineering, have been in traditional healthcare my whole career. I wanted to be MD, PhD, got into medical school, decided I couldn’t get into the research program, so I ended up in the industry.
I’ve worked for acute care EMRs, GE Medical Systems, done cardiovascular AI, machine learning, practice management, telemonitoring, really technology based in the healthcare industry. As Jenn was graduating from FDN and starting into her practice, I was a late thirties male going through everything that they go through.
Oh, I’m dealing with weight gain, brain fog, afternoon headaches. Everybody who’s listening to this knows that that’s not normal. But what else is going on? And I was trying to do all the right things, gluten-free, organic, sober months, working out all the time, taking all these random supplements. But all of my objective markers were going in the wrong direction.
I always say, I got to the worst day of my life when the scale hit 240. And that was November of 2016, I think. That really was kind of like the turnover point for me, cause I felt like I was doing the right things. But as Reed says, I was stuck in a cycle of trial and error. And so, with Jenn, we went through a lot of the different testings, a lot of different approaches. But as any client of this particular approach struggles with, I have data everywhere, right?
Biocanic: Resolving from Force Fitting
I had multiple PDF documents in my lab results. I’m doing intake forms in Excel. I jokingly say for those that are still using the Excel spreadsheets, that Excel spreadsheet for the adrenal stress causes, adrenal stress indicators, almost caused a divorce from the pain it was doing to fill it out. Right?
And I’m getting my supplement recommendations. The Word document looks great, but I have a Word document and an intake form, and I’m tracking my health, I had a spreadsheet of all of my different markers that I was entering; and that’s really why we created Biocanic.
It was my experience in the traditional healthcare world is in practice management or EHR EMR systems, they’re built for the care delivery model. And if you think about it, if you have a chiropractor, they’re probably using ChiroTouch. That software system is built for chiropractors. You can’t take a chiropractic system and go drop it into a podiatry clinic or a pulmonology clinic, or skilled nursing.
What we saw was that people were taking what is the traditional practice management model and trying to apply it for what is a longer-term care program. Right? And when you think about a typical practice management, that is a primary care physician who’s charting and documenting for the purposes of billing, referring, or writing a prescription.
So, when you have practitioners that are taking something that’s not built for that and force fitting it, it ends up, yes, you can stay organized, but it doesn’t really help people streamline and also stay engaged in their health journey. And so, as somebody who’s going through an FDN program, you know, they’re making changes along the way.
Biocanic: A Beautiful Merging
It’s not D.R.E.S.S. all the time, right? It’s diet one week and then it’s stress, and it’s management. So, what we wanted to solve for is how do we create a streamlined system that helps practitioners understand the data faster and more efficiently. But also, really focus on my experience as a client, which is help me see where I’m at in my journey, where I’m going, and the value that I’ve been given as a part of my investment in my health.
[00:10:21] Detective Ev: Right.
Well, I’m sorry that you dealt with this stuff, but at the same time, that is kind of cool. It gives you such a real-life experience as to what was happening. And it’s kind of a beautiful merging of two worlds cause you have a background that’s totally qualified for this and then you learn so much from Jenn, you see what’s happening there.
But then you also have the client experience to a degree where you get what it’s like to just be in that cycle of trial and error, thinking that things are normal. Even once you realize that they’re not, it doesn’t mean that it gets fixed overnight. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and it’s almost kind of better when you’re ignorant with it.
You’re just like, oh, okay, this is fine. This is because I’m getting old or something. But then you realize, late thirties, especially for a guy is not old at all. I mean, there are some studies now saying that the thirties to forties should be primetime for males in terms of physical fitness. Now that’s not what we always see, but that’s what it’s supposed to be if we take care of ourselves and choose to do so.
Biocanic: Opportunity to Scale Practitioner Practices
I think one thing that we can just get started with right away, because Jeremy, we have plenty of people that are listening to this show that are considering FDN. So, the business side to them is like the next step. They kind of know that it’s going to be something, but they might not fully understand what that’s going to entail. They know it’s overwhelming, it’s not something that they’ve done before. So, we have that part of our audience.
Then we have FDNs that are in AFDNP, they’re in the professionals’ group that we offer to people post-graduation, and they’re very experienced in business. So, to the degree that we’re able to break it down for both of these people, what is Biocanic and when did you decide, like, you kind of already have alluded to it, but when did you decide, all right, I’m going to go create this specific thing for the practitioners and the clients, really?
[00:11:53] Jeremy Malecha: I mean, so we founded it really based upon kind of seeing the opportunity to help practitioners scale their practices. And that really became apparent as my wife was starting to scale her business. When I talk about the features, and I even did this on sales calls today, I call it dog-walk complaints that turned into product features in our system, right?
We would be walking the dog after dinner, as we do pretty much every single night, and she’d be complaining about a client for X, Y, or Z reason. Right?
Biocanic: Connecting the Dots
Hey, I asked them two weeks ago as a part of the sleep program, did you get to bed before 10:00 pm? And of course, they would show up two weeks later and they’d be like, yeah, I think so. Right? But you know, 80%, okay, probably did. But they don’t remember back last Wednesday when they stayed up till midnight, had too much alcohol, had a fight at work or anything, and they didn’t connect the dots between that particular day and the impact it had on their health. They lost the insight.
And everything about FDN is so critical because it is so data driven that when you start to connect the dots, that becomes the teaching moment. So, when we think about not only the metabolic side, but also the emotional and the connection and the behavioral side. That’s what’s so critical, right?
Because now I can say, okay, look, I’m going to stay up till midnight. I’m going to have too much to drink and I’m going to feel like heck in the morning. But I’m consciously making that decision. You know, I’ve broken the habit and now because I know what it means, is it worth it to me?
We always joke, you know, Jenn and I were talking about like, is the bread worth it? I know how bad I feel when I eat really bad, US-based, gluten enriched bread. I get zits, feel horrible, bloated, brain foggy; it’s not worth it. But then there are times where you’re at the artisanal bakery or in France, and you’re like, yes, it’s absolutely worth it.
Biocanic: Systematic Approach
But the ability to have the accountability and the understanding to connect the dots, to really become that health detective and help your client become their own detective and understand it, is what’s so critical. So, when we think about kind of the system approach, that’s what makes us so much different than the other options.
[00:14:10] Detective Ev: This is why I wanted to do this, right? I keep learning more as I talk to you. Just to give a background, Jeremy and I, I guess we had met briefly in person at a conference a couple of years ago, but it was very fast. There’s a lot of people there. Then we were both at CellCore, their conference in Boise, Idaho basically last week.
We both had a lot of downtime cause people would actually go listen to the speakers. What a concept. And I got to really explore Biocanic. It went from something that I’ve just heard about. I’ve heard about all these softwares. I wasn’t using any, cause I’m not someone that takes on 10, 20 clients at a time. It’s just family, friends here and there. Even as my own business is developing, I’m more the sales and marketing person and then I give it to the other practitioners. But I was excited for this stuff for them.
Then what you just said, I didn’t realize it was so client focused in this sense. Because you’re right, like as an FDN, you almost take this for granted. I am so aware and so are all of the graduates, I would imagine. I’m so aware that if I do X, Y, Z things on this day, it’s going to have a consequence the next day. Sometimes we know this by the hour.
Biocanic: Enlightening Clients
I know if I stay up till 11:00 pm versus 10:00 pm, even if I got the eight hours, seriously, still to this day, my neck gets kind of tight, I get kind of stuffy. It’s not the end of the world, goes away in like an hour. But it’s an hour of sleep. I didn’t even lose sleep overall, I just shifted the hours around and I noticed, wow, that does affect me. Like, that doesn’t feel good.
I also beat the heck out of my body when I was younger with the health issues and staying up till four in the morning every single day, like even on school days. So, maybe I’ve tapped out my returns a little bit in that sense. But it’s crazy how I can feel like Superman one day. And now I feel like I have the kryptonite on the next day just by doing something for an hour. I mean, most people don’t have any awareness on this stuff with like major things, let alone something as subtle as an hour difference in sleep. So, I kind of like how this can do this for them.
Now, I think it might be a good way just to even describe Biocanic in full. I think what people compare this to, if I’m missing anything, let me know. The two software seem like Practice Better and GetHealthy. Is there any other quote/unquote “competitors” or similar services on the market?
[00:16:08] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. I mean, there’s quite a few of them that are all similar. So, when we kind of differentiate on what we do, we always like to talk about what we do better, not to talk about the other models.
Detective Ev: Fair enough. I appreciate that.
Biocanic: A Simpler Way to Correlate
Jeremy Malecha: The other models, again, are really built around the traditional healthcare system approach. It’s a great way to stay organized. They have a pretty interface, but it doesn’t connect the dots for the individual client. And one of the other examples, again, from my particular health experience is this was actually back before GI MAP when FDN was teaching on BioHealth, which doesn’t exist anymore, right?
So, I had the BioHealth Microbiome test, and was buying Thorne, Dipan-9. I remember the conversation going, why am I buying this $80 bottle of supplements? Jenn would say, don’t you remember on page three of the BioHealth 401H report, you have, I don’t know, C-diff or something, right? And this is to help support your digestive process. I was like, I don’t even know what report that is cause I have five, and I don’t know what that means.
So, when we kind of talk about the other options, that’s still the experience, right? Yes, it’s organized. I can have a PDF and a lab result. But I, as an individual, don’t connect the dots. Because when we process all of the lab data, we’re going to say, we’re going to look at an MRT next to a GI MAP, next to a DUTCH test, next to a stress hormone panel or whatever you’re running, or the blood chemistry as well, and we surface the out-of-range markers.
Now we can, as a practitioner, one, we don’t have to open up all those files. We don’t have multiple monitors where we’re trying to correlate.
Biocanic: Coming Together in One Single View
I think it’s module eight, where Reed has all the different lab tests on the PowerPoint slide and stuff. It’s all right in front of you so you can see it right away. But for a client, now, I can actually see, look, I have gut dysbiosis, I have a litany of food sensitivities, and my hormones are out of whack.
Therefore, I have my adrenal protocol. I have my gut support protocol, and this is why. Because this correlation between these issues, my complaints, and my recommendations now come together in a single view. It’s not trapped in different file folders. And that’s where we try to create a different experiential approach for practitioners and their clients.
[00:18:30] Detective Ev: Well, I think at this point, the best thing to do, and I’m sorry, because I know our audience is mostly audio based. But you guys know I refer you to our YouTube every now and then. So, I will have the link in the show notes for you where you can check this out.
But I’m going to have Jeremy pull up a screen so that we can actually see this. Because I feel like there’s just so much to look at and it will make a lot more sense for people if they can see it in the same way I got to when I was at the conference. So, we’ll do our best to talk about it in such a way that you could still enjoy this if you’re in the kitchen or you’re driving in the car.
But I think it’d be best for you guys to head over to our YouTube, cause Jeremy’s about to share his screen. We’ll see the interface here and how it’s a little different from other things.
Biocanic: The Client’s View
[00:19:05] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. This is my particular dashboard. Most dashboards aren’t as busy as mine, so I do have all the connected wearables and everything.
But one of the big differences, especially around the FDN approach, is when we look at what we call the functional summary. This is where we combine all of the different information. I have a ton of lab testing, including stuff that most FDNs wouldn’t run. But we do it cause we support a lot of different practitioners.
But what we see here, think about the correlation. So, we have our client reported, you know, what are our goals? What are our complaints? Our Metabolic Chaos Scorecard, so obviously, this is the older version. But we can see the scores side by side, how that self-reported data is improving.
And then I’m just going to zip over here. Here I have my Oxford MRT. I’ve actually done a genetic test, a GI MAP, and a DUTCH test. What that means is instead of having to go to a file folder, lab results, and open this PDF that I think is 20 pages long with the actual recommendations on one page without the MRT report. Great report, comes in a binder. But the data that you really need is what am I really reactive to?
My GI MAP five-page report, my DUTCH test, which is a 15-page report, I can see, as a practitioner; I can see everything that’s going on with this individual. I don’t have to go back and reopen it; I can see as it’s going. But now, I, as a client, see everything that’s going on.
And then when you’re retesting, this is where the value comes in. You’re going to do a pre and posttest.
Biocanic: Tracking Multiple Test Results
So, part of my health journey was estrogen dominance, and so here we have eight DUTCH tests. I know that sounds gross, I think I’m in the top 10 at Precision Analytical for running the test. But why it’s so critical and why I run it so regularly is if you’re familiar with the DUTCH test and the estrogen pathways, if we go back to 2017, and I’m not trying to train everybody on a DUTCH test, I would present as if I was low T, weight gain, andro weight gain, afternoon headaches, low libido. My issue, if you look at kind of the testosterone metabolite, was relatively normal; my issue was estrogen dominance.
Had I walked into an MD and gotten on testosterone therapy, it would’ve been an absolute disaster for me because my estrogen pathways were so clogged up. So, I’m generating a ton of estrogen. You see, everything’s out of range. My 4-OH is almost off the chart. Family history of estrogen dominance. I’m a poor methylator and you can actually see that over here as well.
This is why I’m kind of going to this, is when we actually look at my individual health journeys from the last six years and we go look at those estrogen markers over time, we can actually see that this is where I started. Again, this is that cancer-causing pathway and this is where I’ve been. This is the reason why I take this test over and over is because I want to make sure that I’m continuing to adhere to my particular dietary lifestyle in maintaining that good estrogen detoxification. This wasn’t like one time; this was having to follow along.
Biocanic: Motivating Clients
And you can see I had some aberrations along the way. So, for me it was about how do I stop filling the tank? How do I empty the tank faster and get back to estrogen balance? This process court was absolutely parallel to me losing 40 pounds. And so, this is where it all comes together for individual practitioners.
[00:22:25] Detective Ev: This is so cool cause I feel like, especially for the client, one of the problems always is retesting, like, encouraging them to do so. But I feel like this is just so rewarding. If I was working with a client, I would show them someone else or myself, just like you have, and show them, hey, look at this graph over time.
And I don’t know, I think that’s actually very motivating for people to want to do these things continuously themselves. It’s so odd what motivates us as human beings. I haven’t figured that out perfectly yet myself. But I know it’s amazing when I just post labs online, that gets so many people asking questions. We’re very driven by the data, even if we wouldn’t consider ourselves like a normal data-driven person.
So, what I want to know then for my client, if they are looking at their dashboard and I gave like a bunch of recommendations this past week, is there an easy way to pull up what that might look like if you’re the client or I’m the client, like what did they get last week?
Biocanic: Efficient and Streamlined
[00:23:14] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. One of the things that we do that’s, again, different, is when you think about kind of the report of findings, or this follow up report. You want to create that report and recommendation. Because we have all the data, we have what’s called the summary report generator.
So, if you think about taking your practicals and you’re having to summarize everything, we can actually pull in all of that information. We have our supplements, our scored self-assessment. Let’s say we’ve run that metabolic scorecard. I’m just going to include, let’s say, the GI MAP just for simplicity. Then this is kind of our typical interpretations.
So, let’s say we have our estrogen dominance kind of lab results assessment, and then we’re going to set up our D.R.E.S.S. plan, whatever step that they’re in. In that five-step process, you’ve basically created a follow up professional report, once it loads, in a second.
We can see that we’ve pulled everything together. Sorry, I’ve taken the GI MAP about as much as I’ve taken the DUTCH test. You can see here’s the metabolic scorecard scores, the out-of-range markers. You don’t have to copy and paste from the PDF documents.
Then we auto fill in whatever that interpretation assessment is, then our plan, and our supplement recommendations here at the bottom. And we’ve completed that follow-up report in 30 seconds. So again, thinking about efficiency around this particular use case, this is how we really streamline our individual practitioners. Yes, you can do this without our system, but it takes a lot more work.
Biocanic: It’s About Optimization
And so, when you think about the goal and aspiration of a new graduate who wants to be serving 10 or 20 or 50 active patients or clients, those kind of 15, 30, 45 minutes start to multiply up. And without the right system in place, you get stuck.
That’s really where we found so much success in the industry is busy practitioners are buried in, yes, the files are really organized, but they can’t get to the data. Then it’s five minutes here, 10 minutes there, 15 minutes here, and they can’t take on any more patients. Then they can’t really achieve kind of the business model that they’re looking for.
[00:25:25] Detective Ev: Right.
This is hilarious to me knowing Jenn, because I’ve always admired her. I look at her as like the queen of optimization. I’m like, oh, okay. Here’s the king too. Because you guys just get everything that you could possibly get. And it is always about optimization instead of just adding hours to the day.
That’s one thing I think a lot of us, including myself, could learn from someone like Jenn. Her philosophy is her health comes first. Right? She’s never going back to the things that she dealt with. And so, what she’s going to do is say, okay, I’m going to figure out in these, let’s say 40 hours a week that I want to work, how do I get more efficient in the 40 hours? How do I get more useful? Not, how do I just keep adding on hours?
Because the one end is very limited. This other end where you just optimize and get more efficient, that’s pretty much infinite. You can continue to grow as an individual.
Biocanic: Which is Best for FDN Practitioners?
I’m sure there’s a limit on how many clients someone could realistically have. But Jenn has pretty much maxed that out, has gone as high as you can. And she even has programs like PBMS, I went through that briefly, that were all about efficiency and optimization. And this is basically the software for that.
Again, I really appreciated what you said about not ever talking about what another program’s doing badly. I like to do the same thing with FDN, right? People call all the time for the sales calls and ask about this course and that course. I don’t need to be a course basher. And quite frankly, a lot of these places are trying to do the best they can too, and we know that.
The thing is though, I want you to be able to have your minute here and explain to people what the true advantages would be. Because if I don’t know anything else, like if I don’t have anything to compare to cause I’m a trainee right now and I don’t even know about Practice Better or GetHealthy, I mean, you might just trust the podcast and say, okay, I’m going to go do this.
But Practice Better probably has their fancy marketing and they’re going to come in on a Google ad or something. Or I think you said they, ironically, don’t do marketing.
Jeremy Malecha: Yeah.
Detective Ev: Okay. Bad example then. You’re going to hear about these other things.
So, is there ever a case where a regular FDN practitioner would be better off using a software like that? Or was this just so good for the FDN that they don’t really have to even think about those other programs?
Biocanic: A Very Different Work Style
[00:27:24] Jeremy Malecha: Look, the other programs are a great way to be organized. So, if you’re becoming an FDN, it’s a part-time thing and you’re going to manage a couple clients here and there, some friends and family, and it’s not really where you want to take your career, it’s just something you like to do, it’s all about the same, right? Because the time efficiency doesn’t really matter.
If your goal as a practitioner is to have a busy practice where you’re seeing lots of people, maybe you’re bringing on other FDNs to help support your business, you have to think about how do I make the investments today to be able to 10x my business tomorrow. To do that, you can’t have this kind of death by five-minute cuts. Right?
The fact of having to go in, open a pdf, open a pdf, shift it, zoom it, move it so you can actually see it and get your focus, if you’re busy, when do you have time to focus? In the evenings or in the morning? And that comes at the expense of your family or your ideal lifestyle. Right?
So, when you think about that, you really need to put the investment upfront. If you want to truly scale your business, scale yourself, scale your approach, you have to have the systems in place to be able to do that. And those systems have to enable your workflow to do it as fast as possible so that it’s not cutting into your personal lifestyle.
And one of the things that’s interesting, cause we’re kind of a startup, but we’re five years old now, we have a very different work style because we’re in the functional and integrative space.
Biocanic: Plan Ahead, Invest Now
The importance of balance, the importance of getting away from computer, not working 90 hours a week, not grinding it out all day, every day, because you end up getting adrenal stressed, you end up burning out. So, even philosophically as a company, we’re like, turn off your electronics, get off your computer at times, find your work-life balance. Because if you’re out of balance, that’s going to affect your work.
That’s why it’s so critical to have the right systems in place. And we want to plan ahead. If this is your goal, if this is your big business vision, invest now.
Oftentimes we hear a lot of graduates and they’re like, well, I need to get my first client before I start to invest. Think about it the other way. I should invest in my infrastructure before I get my first client. Because when they come through and everything’s streamlined, they have a professional experience, they get everything as they need it, they become your marketing engine, and that’s how you truly scale. If you think about it the other way around, you’re only hurting yourself by not doing it upfront.
[00:29:51] Detective Ev: True. You actually want to deliver as high a level to the first person as the hundredth person. Of course, you’d be improving over time, you’d think, but as high as you’re capable of doing with the first person.
Because at the end of the day, social media is awesome. Giving talks and lectures is great. The best way to do this business and most businesses is word of mouth. People that love you and had a great experience with you saying, you need to go talk to this person. It also makes the conversations around the higher ticket packages a lot easier.
Biocanic: Starting Out Successfully
I can tell you from personal experience that saying, hey, it’s $4,500 on a call, goes much more smoothly when the person, like their wife or husband went through your program and loves you to death, knows you and has had success versus when it was a cold lead from some random Facebook ad or whatever it might be. So, trust me on that one.
And that’s why I was excited for Maddy, my girlfriend, and Brian, my friend, because I’m like, all right, they’re brand new, literally just onboarding the first clients. And I’m thinking also as like a business owner too, like how do I invest in the employee in a sense, right? They’re more 1099, but how do I invest in the company? How do I make these people get set up for success from day one? That’s why I’m excited to start working with you guys.
We probably won’t get to the full 50 minutes, which is cool. Like I said, it doesn’t necessarily need to be that today. But one thing I think we have to mention towards the end here is the pricing tiers and what they’re going to get. Because I know at the time of recording this, it is currently $35 for FDN practitioners. Is that correct?
Jeremy Malecha: That’s correct.
Detective Ev: Okay. And now I know that you can add things on. Like one thing, I believe, I was talking to Connie about, she was telling me that I can do these pre-recorded things basically, and then include them in my programs. I’m like, dude, duh.
Biocanic: The Core System
I can go with basic D.R.E.S.S. stuff now. I know you wouldn’t know this about me, but I’m huge on circadian biology and light. And I do feel sometimes like it’s not that it’s not worth a client consult, but it’s so routine. There’s no way I’m not going to tell someone this because it really is one of the few things that can be applied to everyone, right? It has to do with sleep and getting morning light.
I’m like, oh, I can just put that into a video format now and include that in everyone’s program and use the sessions for what they actually should be used for, which is maintaining what they need to be doing or going over any current problems they have versus just educating them on something I’m going to teach the other 20 clients anyway.
So alright, the $35 will get me what? What would the next tiers look like and what would they include?
[00:32:07] Jeremy Malecha: I certainly understand pricing can be confusing in our industry cause everybody has their different matrix of stuff.
So, one, the FDN pricing is special cause we were actually built around FDNs, and Reed’s been a very good partner for us as we’ve kind of grown the system. We are a flat monthly fee; we don’t have any like utilization tiers.
So, sometimes if you are looking at other systems, you’ll see up to a hundred clients or up to X amount of text messages or up to two gigs. We don’t do any of that. It is just the one monthly fee that starts at $35, and that includes intake assessments, the lab processing, supplement recommendations, scheduling. You can do invoicing through your billing account. That’s what we call our core system.
Biocanic: Cheaper Than Any Other Platform
Then we have two additional add-ons. One is the program builder or evergreen content delivery system. So, if you think about a Kajabi or a Thinkific, that’s a $10 add-on. And then we have our precision eating platform, which is, we’ll make recommendations and generate a meal plan for you, for your individual client. That’s a $20 add-on.
So, if you did all three, it would be $65 a month, which is still cheaper than any other platform out there. And you don’t have the complexity of worrying about your business getting too big and your pricing changing.
[00:33:26] Detective Ev: Well, that’s fantastic. So, you’re saying even just for the $35, if all I ever wanted was the stuff that you mentioned in that tier, I could have a thousand clients and you guys don’t care.
Jeremy Malecha: Correct.
Detective Ev: It’s just, do your thing. That’s amazing.
Then also, just for the video hosting, like evergreen videos and courses and stuff might be a little different, I guess. I guess it’s not, because I think Connie told me you can actually have quizzes in there too, right?
Jeremy Malecha: Yes.
Detective Ev: That’s so cool. Cause I think that’s one of the reasons the FDN course works. Yes, we have the more intensive testing at the end, but those little quizzes that you take after each video, that’s actually what helps you get ingrained.
I went back to that and used some of those to study for those final exams. I’m like, I’m just going to go back through the quizzes cause that’s probably the important stuff. That’s really useful for clients.
But yeah, video, those programs that host that type of stuff are definitely more than $10 a month. I know that for a fact.
[00:34:12] Jeremy Malecha: We do other things. So, we have integrated task management, so you don’t have to pay for a Trello or Asana. That’s built into the system as well; I forgot to mention. And then we also do self-booking, so you don’t have to have a Calendly or a ScheduleOnce subscription as well. So, we can really simplify everything into a single experience for practitioners.
[00:34:30] Detective Ev: I was actually going to say the Calendly thing specifically because I was like, all right, $35 and I get the calendar software while I’m already paying, whatever I’m paying, I couldn’t even tell you, $12, $15 a month definitely for Calendly, just that alone, it’s like $20 extra, unlimited clients and I get all that other stuff. It’s kind of, in my opinion, a no-brainer.
I have two final questions for you. One is, it’s kind of a fun one, and you might have already mentioned these things, but again, God only knows how much like secret cool stuff you guys actually have in these softwares, knowing you and Jenn and probably how you guys work together.
So, what are your top two or three favorite features that Biocanic offers? It could be at any tier, but I’m just curious what your favorite ones are.
[00:35:09] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah, I mean as a data junkie biohacker, it’s the automatic lab data processing. That’s kind of our big bread and butter differentiation. We support over 150 different specialty labs.
People ask us how we did it. We’re like one at a time. And we’ve done it one at a time for the last four years since we started doing lab data processing. That is the most fun thing.
Biocanic: Implementing Customer Requests
It’s also really kind of delightful when somebody says, hey, I use this lab that’s not in there. Can you do it? Then we implement it in a couple days. That’s been a lot of fun to see the growth of all of the different specialty labs in all of the different approaches that we use.
The other side is, then being able to trend that in the summary report, being able to create that kind of professional follow up report in 30 seconds is like earth shattering, especially for a lot of the MDs that we’re used to working with now. They’re used to doing like charting in a hospital EMR, and they’re like, this is so much faster.
If anybody’s followed the EMR industry, everybody hates their EMR. And they’re like, oh my God, this is so much easier. So, that’s been a huge delight and an affirmation.
But you know, it’s those types of features that we develop because we were listening to our customer. That summary report that I showed you was based upon a physician talking about how every night she had to do her charting. She had her Google templates that she would copy and paste. And then she would have to go to the metabolic scorecard and copy and paste the scores or hand enter the scores, right? It was very time consuming. And just to turn that on its head so quickly was just so much fun.
[00:36:45] Detective Ev: I know that this is off the top of your head, but you’ve seen both sides, I guess for someone like Jenn. And she just, again, will continue to squeeze the optimization side.
Biocanic: For More than FDNs
So, let’s say I’m an FDN practitioner that has 10 clients and I’m not using any of these softwares. Like, I don’t do Biocanic, Practice Better or anything like that. I’ve just been doing maybe the Excel spreadsheets and kind of my own version of it. How much time do you think someone is saving by using something like Biocanic versus just working with those 10 clients and not using a software like this?
[00:37:13] Jeremy Malecha: I mean, we estimated that they’re saving about 60% of the time.
We actually have a slide where we actually add stuff up. The challenge is when you actually sum up all the time it takes, we estimate it takes about six to eight hours to get started with somebody after you’ve received the lab. So, call it their initial, follow up results review, that’s six to eight hours per individual, right? And we think we can shave at least 60% off of that. People are like, wait, six to eight hours.
But then you’re like, okay, wait. I had to assign the intake forms, go order the labs, get the labs, upload the labs, look at the labs, and then I wasn’t ready. When you actually sum it up, it does end up actually pretty consistent. It’s not just the FDN approach, this is most of functional and integrative, it’s always around that.
Being able to save that on boarding time, just through being able to order the labs through us, being able to make the recommendations through us, that is a huge time savings. And if you think about six to eight hours, five new clients a week would be 40 hours a week. But you also have all of your clients that you’re working with.
Biocanic: Avoid Getting Bogged Down
So, as I was kind of alluding to earlier, you can’t scale if you’re spending that much time getting started with new clients because you still have to service your existing clients on whatever package they’re on. That’s why we’re so hyper-focused on efficiency and simplifying and bringing things to light, so that people can scale and see more people and ultimately make more money, but also help more people overall.
[00:38:40] Detective Ev: Right. What you just said at the end, get to help more people. They also just get to do what they actually love a lot more. Cause most of the people that go through something like FDN and think about it from a career side, their main interest is doing what we’re doing right now. They want to work with someone one-on-one, help them through their problems and things like that. And yeah, if you’re getting bogged down with all these things that could be automated, it’s a little crazy.
It’s not my business of course, to share like Jenn’s numbers, but I will just say, guys, Jenn does some insanely impressive numbers with clients and revenue. I guess you guys have to be right about the 60% in terms of time saving. You can’t be wrong. There’s no way that you could do the volume of clients that she’s done if it wasn’t optimizing everything else. And there’s more that goes into that cause Jenn, again, has programs that helps with some other sides of things.
But I think Biocanic would be a great place to start for people. I am a liar too cause I had two main questions, but now I have like my rapid-fire ones.
Where to Find Biocanic
[00:39:31] Jeremy Malecha: It’s one thing to bring it to life for any trainee or graduate. How long does it take you to fill out the FDN case notes report form?
[00:39:39] Detective Ev: Well, even from a medical director program standpoint, that sucks. That’s why I think they did away with it because people weren’t doing it cause it took so much time. So yeah, a good chunk.
[00:39:47] Jeremy Malecha: Right. And if you could do that in five clicks instead of going to each section and copying and opening the document, that is exactly the pain point that we solve. That’s where the efficiency comes in and usually helps people really understand it.
[00:40:00] Detective Ev: Nice. All right. So, my rapid-fire questions, just thinking like from the audience perspective and now they’re interested in this, maybe having these questions go through their head.
One they’re going to be wondering is, where can I find this? Can I try it? Do they have to buy it right away? What would that look like for them?
[00:40:14] Jeremy Malecha: So, we’re Biocanic.com. There’s a button that says FREE TRIAL. So, we have a two week trial and we do onboarding training. We have a community site, very open book about our features and functionality. We’re always happy to get on a demo, answer any questions, walk you through everything. So, going to our site is the best starting point.
If you want to see kind of how the features and everything and the content we deliver, we have our community site, which is hix.biocanic.com. You can see how we’ve kind of evolved the system over time.
Biocanic: Customer Service Support
And also, there’s additional educational content. We highlight other practitioners’ approaches. So, if you’re thinking beyond FDN, hey, I want to niche into integrative dermatology, we do a lot of interviews like Dr. Julie Greenberg, who’s a really well-known integrative derm as an example.
But yeah, two-week trial, and you can stop and start. There are no long-term contracts. Hey, you want to try it out? You’re not ready. You know, you’re going on vacation, you’re going to restart. We’re very flexible when it comes to working with us.
You actually answered one of my next questions, which was about the training. Actually, it’s a good problem to have, but there’s so much stuff that I can imagine it’s a little overwhelming in the beginning. So, you mentioned a demo, like are they actually talking to someone from the company?
[00:41:27] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. We do one-on-one training, and our employees are FDNs. It’s not often that we promote that, but obviously they speak the language, they know the approach, and they’re very helpful cause they both worked with individual practitioners and their own clients as well.
We are hands on with our practitioners. The worst thing about learning a new technology system is being directed to a blog link or a tech support site on a website and reading four pages when you just need an answer to a question. For us, philosophically, if we get you up and running and successful as soon as possible, you’re winning and we’re helping you along the way. It saves any back and forth and, you know, we didn’t answer the right question with the right link and everything.
Biocanic: Walking Customers Through
We also encourage people to reach out as they’re going. So, oftentimes, hey, I finally found time to sit down and get in this, and now I’m stuck somewhere and have a question. Send it right away. Don’t let things stack up. While you’re in the framework, in the learning framework, it’s best to get your questions answered at that time. That’s why we’re so hyper responsive to our questions that come in.
[00:42:29] Detective Ev: Very cool. I cannot agree with that more. I think that’s very wise of you guys.
I’m a young dude, man. You think I would know about computers and stuff. I spent so long recently, just in the last three weeks, we started using Kartra for my own personal stuff. And I really like the program. It’s amazing how easy it is to build the templates for your funnels and stuff.
But beside the point, I could not for the life of me easily figure out how to get the domain on there from GoDaddy. There was just like this whole extra process, it was a pain in the butt. I’m like, I’m young and I like to believe I’m half intelligent. And I’m having trouble figuring this out. I’m like, what about like the 60-year-old person that wants to build their first funnel or something? It just wasn’t user friendly at all.
And then, my gosh, getting our leads in from our previous place to there has been a nightmare too. So, I love the fact that you guys are helping out with that because I do think all of us need it regardless of whether we’re older or younger. Having someone to walk us through all the features is really cool.
Biocanic: White Label Set Up
We talked about the educational side. That’s great. If I have custom intake forms, could I upload those to Biocanic?
[00:43:27] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. It’s a form builder. That’s all created in there. If you’ve ever created a Google document, you can make it in our system.
We serve a wide range of functional and integrative, there is not an intake form I’ve seen that can’t be implemented in our system now. So, we have to do things like timeline tables, supplement medication tables for the intake process, skip logic scoring system. And we can also help you do that too, as a part of our onboarding process. It’s really easy once you get going.
[00:43:55] Detective Ev: Okay. And my real last rapid-fire question, I understand that some of these things, I could be wrong, but like there’s an ability to pay for a personalization of it, like, it can be on your own website. I don’t actually fully know how that works, so forgive my ignorance. But is there a way to personalize it with Biocanic or will people know that they’re using the third-party software? Not that that really matters, but I’m just curious.
[00:44:18] Jeremy Malecha: Yeah. We do have what’s called a white label set up. You can pay to basically have your domain set up, have it customized to your branding, your color scheme, so it feels like a single experience. It basically removes all the Biocanic branding.
That is just a one-time, $1,000 setup fee. And once it’s set up, you actually have administrator controls. So, if you do change your brand over time, you can fully change that at a later date as well. It’s just the initiation and creation of the individual website.
Conclusion
[00:44:46] Detective Ev: That’s awesome. You guys got everything. Is there anything that I missed today that you wanted to make sure we got out because I’ll still talk about some of the things I loved when I record the intro. But anything we missed?
[00:44:56] Jeremy Malecha: No. I mean, we’re always looking for our features and functionality come from our practitioners, so if there isn’t something that we’re doing today that you’d like to see us do, let us know.
I know that there’s quite a few FDNs that knew us all the way back in the 2018 first FDN conference where we demoed a prototype, and we didn’t even have software. It’s been evolving and we continuously bring out new features of functionality every couple weeks. So, just cause you don’t see it in there today doesn’t mean we can’t get it out tomorrow. And that’s how we really grow and continue to iterate, really bring value to this particular industry. That’s our focus.
[00:45:31] Detective Ev: Cool. Hey Jeremy, man, it’s really nice getting to actually talk to you for once. Thank you for creating this. And I will let the audience know how it goes on our end because I’m about to get Maddy signed up for the free two-week trial.
