Changing gears: The decision to kill off Phylicia Rashad is crazy.
All right, so I feel bad because I fought for that scene. For me, the scariest thing about becoming a man, especially a Black man, is being cut off from all your guidances, right? So Adonis loses his mom, but really what it is is we kind of reveal in the process is what Mary Anne actually is to this story, which is, she is Adonis’s opportunity. She came and got this kid out of a jail cell when he was 10. It’s revealing that all the stuff that has to happen for a Black man to become successful, it’s almost like random shit has to happen.
And he has to have the determination of Rocky Balboa for that to work, and he has to have a famous name to get in a fight. All these things have to go right, and I think that when we have a moment of Adonis losing his mother figure that he’s sort of taken for granted,
Looking at you and your brother crafting this trilogy, is it almost like you guys are refracting your own come up in the entertainment industry?
Absolutely. That’s why these movies are so fulfilling to work on. They imitate life whether you like it or not. I think Sly knew that when he made these movies over years ago. There’s a reason Apollo is dressed like Uncle Sam in Rocky one.
Rocky is told through a boxing lens because to me it’s very much a story about America, right? He’s resigned himself to this lower class life, and he’s given this golden opportunity by a Black fighter, who’s dressed as Uncle Sam, right? That’s not random.
Apollo always represents opportunity. He’s that lightning rod a random bolt has to hit. And even with your work ethic to clutch success in America, it’s still going to be ephemeral because Rocky still goes wrong.
What are some other things you want to see with Adonis?
I would love to see him continuing to challenge his own masculinity. I would love that, bro, because that’s something that I have the luxury of doing just osmosis of working with Mike and Majors. They made a man out of me in a way that I don’t think I noticed while it was happening…. just because, bro, I don’t know if you’ve met Majors or not yet, but-
I have, yeah.
I never met a Black dude who felt all of his emotions so… not casually, but respectfully. Mike was the first actor I knew who was, like, a n-gga. I think the first day I met Mike, he came to my house in Richmond and shot hoops in the backyard with no security. I was like, “All right, I get you. I understand what kind of cloth you come from.” But Mike is the first guy I knew who cried and didn’t hide it.
I met Mike as a teenager. For where I was growing up, it probably saved my life. Then it kind of got me intrigued in studying my own theory of mind just because if these big tough ballplayers could do it too, I wanted to.
So, Creed IV is greenlit. Jake Paul for the villain?
I can see that being cool because Jake Paul represents a part of that story. Think about this: Not him as a person, but the figure of a character who can, to get technical, do what Adonis did. He didn’t have any real fights. He stepped in that ring and took a payday. I think if you were to tell that story, it’s got some connective tissue. You could get really crazy and still stay on brand.
Frazier Tharpe
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